Netanyahu rejects Hamas' demands, complicating efforts toward cease-fire and hostage-release deal

True two-state solution the only cure, everything else just more of the same = death and destruction.

What you are trying to do is truly reprehensible, denying the existence of a people in order to minimize their genocide at the hands of the Israelis.

Exactly!

No. The Philistines were an Iron Age people who settled (primarily) on the coastal strip of what is today Israel after fleeing the collapse of the Mycenaean palace states at the end of the Late Bronze Age. Their five cities were conquered by Nebuchadnezzar II around 604/3 BCE and their populations were dispersed and deported as per Babylonian policy. There was no return from Exile and their coastal cities were granted to the Tyrians and Sidonians by the Achaemenid Persians. The remaining ethnic Philistines appear to have assimilated into the other local societies including the Phoenicians and Judahites and quite likely the Egyptians and possibly Edomites.

Nonetheless there was indeed a Philistine kingdom so you cannot say with any honesty that there was never a Palestinian nation. There was and it was that very same Philistine kingdom.

You also overlook the centuries of Ottoman rule over what even they called Palestine.

What you are trying to do is truly reprehensible, denying the existence of a people in order to minimize their genocide at the hands of the Israelis.

Nope. The Jews have not upheld their part of the bargain. They took Jerusalem from the UN in violation of the resolution. Subsequently they have refused to allow the original inhabitants they expelled from Palestine to resettle there, denying the right to return that Israel agreed to. The right to return is one of the major causes of the Arab Israeli conflict. The fact is that Israel never intended to follow the terms of the resolution, seeing it as a tactical expedient to get them in power so they could begin expanding, which is exactly what they have done ever since.

I am a property owner and see this through the lens of someone who owns land and homes. I would never willingly give up my land to an invader. Never. If I were a Palestinian land owner and my land and home were taken from me and given to Jewish settlers I would take up arms and fight until I either got my home and land back or I died. I would never willingly surrender. Never. Israel stole that land from the Arabs, forced the Arabs to flee, and have never kept their word on any UN resolution. Then they add insult to injury by spitting on Christians in Jerusalem.

Excellent post. Well said!

So I was correct and now you’re backtracking talking about why it wasn’t a fair deal. Gotcha.

Nope. The Jews have not upheld their part of the bargain. They took Jerusalem from the UN in violation of the resolution. Subsequently they have refused to allow the original inhabitants they expelled from Palestine to resettle there, denying the right to return that Israel agreed to. The right to return is one of the major causes of the Arab Israeli conflict. The fact is that Israel never intended to follow the terms of the resolution, seeing it as a tactical expedient to get them in power so they could begin expanding, which is exactly what they have done ever since.

I am a property owner and see this through the lens of someone who owns land and homes. I would never willingly give up my land to an invader. Never. If I were a Palestinian land owner and my land and home were taken from me and given to Jewish settlers I would take up arms and fight until I either got my home and land back or I died. I would never willingly surrender. Never. Israel stole that land from the Arabs, forced the Arabs to flee, and have never kept their word on any UN resolution. Then they add insult to injury by spitting on Christians in Jerusalem.

Philistine and Palestinian are the very same thing in different languages. That is an important point. The Philistines had their own kingdom until it was destroyed along with Israel by the Babylonians. So yes, they did indeed have an independent nation named after them and they lost it along with the Israelis to the same conquering power. They have been colonized on their own land ever since while the Jews were largely scattered across Europe and to a lesser degree Africa. The Palestinians / Philistines pre-date the arrival of the Jews in Caanan / Palestine. The Torah says that God told the Jews they had to kill every man woman and child among the Caananites, which includes the Philistines, in order to inherit their promised land. It appears the Jews are still trying.

No. The Philistines were an Iron Age people who settled (primarily) on the coastal strip of what is today Israel after fleeing the collapse of the Mycenaean palace states at the end of the Late Bronze Age. Their five cities were conquered by Nebuchadnezzar II around 604/3 BCE and their populations were dispersed and deported as per Babylonian policy. There was no return from Exile and their coastal cities were granted to the Tyrians and Sidonians by the Achaemenid Persians. The remaining ethnic Philistines appear to have assimilated into the other local societies including the Phoenicians and Judahites and quite likely the Egyptians and possibly Edomites.

Neither Netanyahu nor Hamas want a deal as neither want to be unsteadied.

Israel has already rejected the cease fire proposal. It's dead now.

There was never an independent political entity of Palestine and there’s no record of the people of the area referring to themselves as Palestinians.

Philistine and Palestinian are the very same thing in different languages. That is an important point. The Philistines had their own kingdom until it was destroyed along with Israel by the Babylonians. So yes, they did indeed have an independent nation named after them and they lost it along with the Israelis to the same conquering power. They have been colonized on their own land ever since while the Jews were largely scattered across Europe and to a lesser degree Africa. The Palestinians / Philistines pre-date the arrival of the Jews in Caanan / Palestine. The Torah says that God told the Jews they had to kill every man woman and child among the Caananites, which includes the Philistines, in order to inherit their promised land. It appears the Jews are still trying.

Neither Netanyahu nor Hamas want a deal as neither want to be unsteadied.

Netanyahu kept Hamas in force to weaken the Palestinians and got backfired.

Both parties should leave as Israelis are sick of Netanyahu and there is no need for militias in any land.

The resolution was passed over Arab objections. For the Jews, the UN was giving them 56% of the British mandate and a free hand to take lands from Arab land owners. It was a good deal for the Jews but a terrible one for the Arabs and it was rammed down the throats of the Arabs over their vocal and unified objections. The fact is the Arabs opposed the formation of a Jewish state all the way back to when it was first proposed in 1917 but the western powers never listened to Arab objections. In addition the UN claimed control of Jerusalem as part of the resolution, but the Israelis ignored this stipulation and occupied west Jerusalem from the outset.

So I was correct and now you’re backtracking talking about why it wasn’t a fair deal. Gotcha.

Incorrect. They are one of the early Caananite people known as the Philistines in the Torah and in the Old Testament. They had a large kingdom in what is now modern Palestine. They settled ancient Caanan (modern Palestine) around 1175BC. Their kingdom was subjugated by the Assyrians before it was destroyed, along with Israel, by the Babylonians. The Philistines / Palestinians have been the subjects of foreign empires ever since including the Greeks, Romans, Byzantine Empire, a period under successive Muslim Caliphates, followed by the Crusaders, then Ottomans and British. The region was called Palestine for the four centuries it was under Ottoman rule and the three decades of British rule.

Nothing you just wrote proves anything I said wrong, so I’ll repeat my comment:

There was never an independent political entity of Palestine and there’s no record of the people of the area referring to themselves as Palestinians. Feel free to post anything that proves me wrong though

The region was called Palestine for the four centuries it was under Ottoman rule and the three decades of British rule.

This is exactly what I said. There was never a sovereign nation of Palestine which referred to itself as such though

This is true. The Jewish people agreed to Resolutoon 181 which would partition the area into Jewish and Palestinian states. The Arab leadership rejected the resolution. Am I incorrect here?

The resolution was passed over Arab objections. For the Jews, the UN was giving them 56% of the British mandate and a free hand to take lands from Arab land owners. It was a good deal for the Jews but a terrible one for the Arabs and it was rammed down the throats of the Arabs over their vocal and unified objections. The fact is the Arabs opposed the formation of a Jewish state all the way back to when it was first proposed in 1917 but the western powers never listened to Arab objections. In addition the UN claimed control of Jerusalem as part of the resolution, but the Israelis ignored this stipulation and occupied west Jerusalem from the outset.

Subsequently on 11 December 1948, Resolution 194 reiterated the UN's claim on Jerusalem and resolved in paragraph 11 "that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date". This resolution, accepted immediately by Israel, is the foundation of the claim of a Palestinian right of return.  While Israel agreed to this they never implemented it.

There was never a nation of Palestine and the people living in the area never referred to themselves as Palestinian.

Incorrect. They are one of the early Caananite people known as the Philistines in the Torah and in the Old Testament. They had a large kingdom in what is now modern Palestine. They settled ancient Caanan (modern Palestine) around 1175BC. Their kingdom was subjugated by the Assyrians before it was destroyed, along with Israel, by the Babylonians. The Philistines / Palestinians have been the subjects of foreign empires ever since including the Greeks, Romans, Byzantine Empire, a period under successive Muslim Caliphates, followed by the Crusaders, then Ottomans and British. The region was called Palestine for the four centuries it was under Ottoman rule and the three decades of British rule.

 The Arab states led by the Arab League were uniformly opposed to this from the start. 

To teach you some history, the Arabs (remember, there are no Palestinians) living in the region along with the Jews opposed this--they wanted all the land. Those Arabs didn't want to share with the Jews.

So, they got nothing.

And they attacked Israel. And lost. And so they lost some of their land.

That's what happens when you start a war. You might lose.

Very basic concept.

That is not true. 

This is true. The Jewish people agreed to Resolutoon 181 which would partition the area into Jewish and Palestinian states. The Arab leadership rejected the resolution. Am I incorrect here?

Desert- thank you for setting the record straight.

As long as there are Palestinians seeking JUSTICE and The Right To Return to their Lands and Properties in Palestine Israel can NEVER live or have PEACE.

Sure. And how’s that working out for them?

This is wrong. The Jews living the area at the time agreed to form a state with the Palestinian people. 

That is not true. It was the British in 1917 during WWI that stated in what is called the Balfour Declaration there should be a Jewish homeland in what was then the Ottoman territory of Palestine. At the time Jews were about 3% of the population of Palestine. The Muslim and Christian majority of Palestine objected to this from the very beginning as they were never consulted about the terms of the declaration and the wording of the declaration left the majority Muslim and Christian populations as more or less subordinate to the perceived necessity of establishing a Jewish homeland. The rights of the "non-Jewish population" to use the term used by the British were never established while those of Jews were.

The Arabs, particularly the Sharif of Mecca, considered it a betrayal of a previous agreement to allow Arab regimes to take control of Ottoman territories on the Mediterranean Sea in exchange for revolting against the Ottoman Empire during WWI. Now the Brits were going to take control of Palestine (and the French Lebanon and Syria) after the defeat of the Ottoman Empire.

Fighting erupted in Mandatory Palestine in the 1920s and continued at a low level until the Arab Revolt of 1936-39. Immediately before WWI the British government declared that Palestine should not become a Jewish state and opposed unlimited Jewish immigration to Palestine, a statement that enraged Zionists. The British maintained this position until their mandate ended.

After WWII contrary to the wishes of the British the US pushed for a partition resolution at the UN, dividing the soon to be former British Mandate in Palestine into Jewish and Arab states. The Arab states led by the Arab League were uniformly opposed to this from the start. The US original position was for there to be UN Trusteeship for the two new states however the US went back on this promise and immediately recognized the newly declared state of Israel.

Now , Zibala, and others, claims that NO NATION of PALESTINE ever existed.

Which is strange because in all the internecine maneuverings between France and Britain deciding on who got what, ""Palestine " is continually referenced in almost all of the correspondence involving the carve-up.

Funny that.

There was never a nation of Palestine and the people living in the area never referred to themselves as Palestinian. The area was referred to as Palestine just like you’d refer to the area of North America, South America, etc. By your logic would you consider there to be a nation of North America?

And why should Palestinian Arabs AGREE to forfeit their land ?

Fine, don’t forfeit and try to fight for it. That worked out really well, didn’t it? Do you think the Palestinian people are in a better position today than they would have been if they’d accepted the deal?

The ""raped...burned...beheaded etc claims have been debunked. Please give it a rest .It makes you look silly.

No, these have not been "debunked". Prove it.

And your support of a terrorist group makes you look silly.

And why should Palestinian Arabs AGREE to forfeit their land ?

THEIR land? Where? I thought they are refugees.

Funny.

Delusional Netanyahu and his war mongers still think or lets say dream they can win this or any future wars!! How WRONG, the fact of the matter Israel will never win any war for as long as it Lacks Total Genuine Peace.

As long as there are Palestinians seeking JUSTICE and The Right To Return to their Lands and Properties in Palestine Israel can NEVER live or have PEACE.

Love how an order to surrender to the Israeli regime's nonexistent mercy in exchange for being killed more slowly is a 'Ceasefire offer', but a step by step process to get to a detente is 'Demands'.

The ""raped...burned...beheaded etc claims have been debunked. Please give it a rest .It makes you look silly.

Now , Zibala, and others, claims that NO NATION of PALESTINE ever existed.

Which is strange because in all the internecine maneuverings between France and Britain deciding on who got what, ""Palestine " is continually referenced in almost all of the correspondence involving the carve-up.

Funny that.

And why should Palestinian Arabs AGREE to forfeit their land ?

Out of the goodness of their heart.

ay Bone...can you look after my Mother in Law or give me some land to build a granny flat ?

Nah...didnt think so.

Israel STARTED this, all Previous and Future wars when it kicked out burned and destroyed Palestinians lives and properties back in 1948.

This is wrong. The Jews living the area at the time agreed to form a state with the Palestinian people. The Arab leadership at the time rejected the offer and instead decided to attack. Glad I could clear that up for you

Israel STARTED this, all Previous and Future wars when it kicked out burned and destroyed Palestinians lives and properties back in 1948.

What we been watching for 75 years are the results of Israel's actions starting with Deir Yassin massacre , to the 1967 attacks then Occupation of the west bank including land stealing & grapping to Apartheid, and now Gaza Genocide.

The Palestinians did not start any wars with Israel or any other nations, in fact they are the ones who been on the run every since was created and the arrival of Jews to Palestine from Europe .

This is Reality no matter how Israel tries to distort it twist it hide it or even destroy it.

The Good news for the Palestinians is that the world Has finally learned and seen REALITY and how Palestine was STOLEN.

Well said Mark. Excellent post.

Israel STARTED this, all Previous and Future wars when it kicked out burned and destroyed Palestinians lives and properties back in 1948.

No. Palestinian Arabs and other 5 Arab countries attacked Israel in 1948.

Prove me wrong.

Israel STARTED this, all Previous and Future wars when it kicked out burned and destroyed Palestinians lives and properties back in 1948.

What we been watching for 75 years are the results of Israel's actions starting with Deir Yassin massacre , to the 1967 attacks then Occupation of the west bank including land stealing & grapping to Apartheid, and now Gaza Genocide.

The Palestinians did not start any wars with Israel or any other nations, in fact they are the ones who been on the run every since was created and the arrival of Jews to Palestine from Europe .

This is Reality no matter how Israel tries to distort it twist it hide it or even destroy it.

The Good news for the Palestinians is that the world Has finally learned and seen REALITY and how Palestine was STOLEN.

The Problem is Israel and Hamas are NOT FIGHTING, they are TARGETTING and KILLING is killing Civilians in order to pressure the other side.

No. So, no problem.

It wasn't Israel who started this war. It is Israel that will finish it.

A terrorist group that raped, murdered, burned, beheaded, and kidnapped over 1400 people does not get to dictate the terms of a ceasefire.

The Problem is Israel and Hamas are NOT FIGHTING, they are TARGETTING and KILLING is killing Civilians in order to pressure the other side.

Not true. When comparing this conflict to other historical conflicts with large amounts of urban fighting there isn’t a difference in the ratio of civilian to combatant death.

The Problem is Israel and Hamas are NOT FIGHTING, they are TARGETTING and KILLING is killing Civilians in order to pressure the other side.

Wars fought between armies, this conflict is NOT a war it is a genocide being carried out in the name of self defense while the real agenda is to remove, kill and destroy as much as possible of Gaza and it's people so Israel can re Occupy or bring it under it's control.

The Zionists just want the land and won't stop until some serious sanctions are brought against them!

You’re right. Israel’s plan this whole time has been to take land in the Gaza Strip which is why in 2005 Israel gave back the Gaza Strip…

Buhbye, hamas... You poked the bear one time too many. There is absolutely no benefit for Israel to ceasefire or comply with any of your demands - why would they stop before all of hamas is eradicated?

Hamas . . . Hiding in their tunnels, hiding behind Palestinians, hiding behind Israeli hostages. The terrorists want to survive and to get out alive in power to continue running Gaza.

Ain’t gonna happen.

Basically Hamas has absolutely no leverage in this. The hostages dying would be more fuel for the ultra conservatives in charge to continue. Their release would also not stop it either. Given that most of Hamas leaders don’t even live in the region they kicked the hive on they probably would love Gaza to be completely wiped out as a rallying call. Both sides of old men are getting what they want while throwing their civilians in the middle.

Correction: of that "vast majority" very many were killed by the IDF "Hannibals" fighting Hamas "hiding" behind "human shields".

This is probably like the 5th time I’ve asked you this question without any response but I’ll try again: can you give me a source on this?

Why would Israel give in to any of Hamas’ demands? Israel is winning

Blinken, who was in the region for the fifth time since the war erupted, is trying to advance the cease-fire talks while pushing for a larger postwar settlement in which Saudi Arabia would normalize relations with Israel in return for a “clear, credible, time-bound path to the establishment of a Palestinian state.”

This looks promising but you'd never trust the Zionists and the head war criminal Netanyahu to keep their end of the deal? The Zionists just want the land and won't stop until some serious sanctions are brought against them!

Just heard an interview with Efraim Halevy , a former head of Mossad.

He said ..."Israel FUNDED HAMAS along with Qatar...."

He claimed the funding was for food and water etc.

But still , ISRAEL FUNDED HAMAS .

This might be new to you but it is really old news to those who follow the many jihadist groups in the region. The predecessor to Hamas was founded by a member of the Muslim Brotherhood as an Islamic opposition movement to the secular and left wing Fatah movement and the PLO. They were affiliated with and supported Muslim Brotherhood social services in Gaza offered to draw people away from the secular militant organizations like Fatah. The Israelis supported them thinking they would become a counterweight to their enemy the PLO and also thinking that Israel didn't want to be viewed as against Islam. The group in time morphed into a militant anti-Israeli organization during and immediately after the First Intifada.

None of this is any kind of new revelation for those of us who have been following events in this region for a long time. It is no surprise. Israel at the time didn't even try to hide their support as government officials met regularly and publicly with this organization before the First Intifada.

The ICJ has found a preliminary and plausible case for a Genocide finding against Israel.

No, it didn't. Prove it.

Some other things...

PM Netanyahu spoke of a "mighty vengeance " to befall Gazza.

The ICJ has found a preliminary and plausible case for a Genocide finding against Israel.

Withholding water, food , power, medicines etc is a war crime.

800 Senior public servants from the US and EU have signed a letter condemning Israel's conduct of its ""war "

But oh....poor Israel.

BTW more and more countries suspending arms sales to Israel.

“Surrendering to Hamas’ delusional demands that we heard now not only won’t lead to freeing the captives, it will just invite another massacre,”

Netanyahu is right.

Eliminate all the monsters no matter the cost.

No peaceful country should tolerate terrorists.

Just heard an interview with Efraim Halevy , a former head of Mossad.

He said ..."Israel FUNDED HAMAS along with Qatar...."

He claimed the funding was for food and water etc.

But still , ISRAEL FUNDED HAMAS .

Seems PM Bibbi's none too concerned about Political Damage he's doing to Pres. Biden! US Muslims and Youth do not appreciate Biden's backing of Gaza Genocide!

 Hamas is still holding over 130 hostages, but around 30 of them are believed to be dead, with the vast majority killed on Oct. 7.

Correction: of that "vast majority" very many were killed by the IDF "Hannibals" fighting Hamas "hiding" behind "human shields". America has no excuses as the supplier of the bombs and shells that have killed 35,000 and counting Gazans.

“There is no water, electricity, food or bathrooms.” Those living in tents have been drenched by winter rains and flooding. “We have been humiliated,”...

"Humiliated" by Zionist malice aforethought, as a result of which, thousands more will die of disease and of their wounds. Since the ICJ ruling Netanyahu and his Western accomplices have shown their utter contempt for the court with their "in the world's face" genocidal violence and rhetoric that has not let up one iota.

Just finish it already no matter the cost.

Candidate for human of the year award

Cease fire deals are idiotic. It just one side seeking time to regroup, gather their strength and try to recover for future retaliation. Just finish it already no matter the cost. By the end of the year, let's see just how many tunnel they still think they can hide in with no resupply of weapons and reinforcement.

Israel doesn’t want peace, it thrives on war and playing them victim card … enough already.

Right you are Mick

It's a pity the decision cant be taken out of Netanyahu 's and his cabinet of cowboys hands.

International mediation is often "imposed " on other nations in Africa and the former Yugoslavia.

But oh Israel...the precious child...

Netanyahu is a demon

THIS.

Of course not. Jail beckons. This is in large part what all this slaughter is about - a ratbag politician, Netanyahu, has to save his own skin from corruption charges.

Hit the nail on the head.

Blinken, who was in the region for the fifth time since the war erupted, is trying to advance the cease-fire talks while pushing for a larger postwar settlement in which Saudi Arabia would normalize relations with Israel in return for a “clear, credible, time-bound path to the establishment of a Palestinian state.”

"Saudi Arabia would normalize relations with Israel".......

For US President Biden, Israel, the main event, the big diplomatic premium, the cherry on top of the cake for US election year.

Gaza permanent occupation, Hamas eradicated, the Palestinian people pay the consequences, the appalling human cost.

I really wonder where this ghastly spectacle leaves the hostages?

The fly in the ointment is Benjamin Netanyahu, his government grip on power weakening by the day, as the realisation the fate of those remaining hostages is a political noose around his neck.

Of course not. Jail beckons. This is in large part what all this slaughter is about - a ratbag politician, Netanyahu, has to save his own skin from corruption charges.

Hamas has no rights to make demands

And we go straight back to square one.

Hamas has no rights to make demands,they were stupid enough to take all their brothers and sisters as hostages. They want the Israeli keep bombing them and caused a very serious castastrope, so the world will lay all the blames on Israel !