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Boehner says it is time for U.S. to deal with immigration reform

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U.S. House Speaker John Boehner gathered fellow congressional Republicans to plan the party's future on Thursday, saying the time had come for his members to help pass immigration reform.

Most experts agree the Republicans' low level of support among voters of recent immigrant stock cost their candidates badly in recent elections, and the party is under pressure to reach out.

But many within the party ranks fear that passing legislation to help regularize the situation of millions of undocumented migrants could hurt them with voters from their white conservative base.

Some lawmakers are resisting Boehner and the party leadership's call to move on immigration, and the party must decide whether to risk an internal fight before November's congressional elections.

One possible compromise would be for the party to agree basic principles on immigration reform but postpone a vote on any new law until a new Congress sits in 2015.

Secluded at a bayside hotel on Maryland's Eastern Shore for a three-day retreat, the Republican majority in House of Representatives was thrashing out guidelines for candidates.

Republican aides signaled that party leaders are circulating policy proposals that included a pathway to legal status -- but not citizenship -- for many of the 11 million people living in the shadows.

"This problem has been around for at least the last 15 years. It's been turned into a political football," Boehner told reporters on the sidelines of the closed-door sessions.

"I think it's unfair, so I think it's time to deal with it. But how you deal with it is going to be critically important."

Republican leaders have acknowledged the need for reform, citing the party's low support among a growing Hispanic community.

But they have stressed they will proceed piecemeal rather than allowing a single grand reform bill to pass, while approving separate legislation to address issues like improving border security.

Boehner would not be drawn on whether the proposals address the critical legalization-versus-citizenship issue.

"We're going to talk to our members today about the principles that the leadership team has put together," he said.

The leadership is sensitive to concerns raised by party conservatives like Steve King that legalizing undocumented immigrants is akin to amnesty.

After U.S. President Barack Obama's State of the Union address, King said he would be leaning hard on members at the retreat to oppose backing a pathway to citizenship or legalization.

"If we set up people to say 'we're going to legalize you but you'll never get a path to citizenship,' then there are two classes of people in this country. That's a bad idea."

Last year's landmark bipartisan Senate bill offered the most comprehensive immigration overhaul in a generation, reforming visa rules and providing a 13-year pathway to citizenship for millions.

But the Republican-led House refused to take it up, despite calls from some business groups, which lean Republican but support immigration reform as a way to boost the economy.

Also on Thursday, the Republican leadership wrote to Obama saying they were ready to "come together" with the president and his Democrats on legislation addressing skills training, natural gas production and federally funded research.

The caucus was also studying how to extend US borrowing authority: accede to Democratic demands for a clean debt ceiling hike, or attach policy riders that would help reduce the debt.

Among the options being thrown around: tacking on a fast-track trade promotion authority, backed by Republicans and the president but opposed by many Democrats, that would allow straight up or down votes on two mammoth free-trade deals with Asia and Europe.

But congressman Dave Camp, powerful chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, said the talks on raising the debt limit were "still preliminary."

The US Treasury has estimated it will no longer be able to meet its payment obligations after late February unless Congress acts.

© (c) 2014 AFP

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162 Comments
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How about a "pathway" back to Mexico. If people can't come here legally then they don't belong here.

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

"the Republicans’ low level of support among voters of recent immigrant stock cost their candidates badly in recent elections, and the party is under pressure to reach out"

Yeah! Time for the Republicans to play Santa Claus like the Democrats! But wait, the government is in debt up to their ears! Sheesh...

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Yes, in debt up to our ears and uneducated immigrants are not going to benefit the nation. Compared to south of the border Welfare, Medicade, and subsidized housing is luxury.

Jeff, is right. The term illegal immigrant (oops! undocumented citizens. What was I thinking!) means what. Not through the proper channels to be here legally? Send them home.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

I'm all for LEGAL immigration, but we all know both sides of the political field every President since Reagan up to Obama never really deeply tackled the issue. For conservatives, aliens provide cheap labor and for liberals, it increases their voting block, because they promise them FREE stuff. I'm totally against giving US citizenship away so easily or cutting in line, chatting people that were following the rules. Obama is THE most underhanded sneakiest President ever! Think about it, Obama allows EVERY illegal into the country to become a citizen, if you are a criminal, hey, we'll look the other way and in doing so, hoping that these new Americans will vote Democrat. What gets me is how liberals scream, conservatives hate Mexicans, let's NOT sugarcoat it, this is the group we are talking about. Which is a bold faced lie, because you want LEGAL immigration that makes you anti-Hispanic? It makes you a racist? It's not that liberals are embracing these law breakers with open arms and are doing this out of the kindness and compassion of their heart. They are doing this for one purpose ONLY, get in as many illegals as you can, convert them to the Democratic Party, give them unconditional citizenship with as many of them as possible and sooner or later, they will outnumber conservatives, the GOP is pretty much closed shop and we are left with ONE PARTY! This is NOT about caring for your fellow man, this is about marginalizing and destroying your rival.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

But the Republican-led House refused to take it up, despite calls from some business groups, which lean Republican but support immigration reform as a way to boost the economy.

During the Green Card process for the wife, I had to fill out a form that stated that when we come go back to the USA, I will have sufficient income to not allow the family to be put on public assistance. i also had to provide the past 3 years proof of paying taxes as part of the application. For business leaders to say that making the 11 million in the USA illegally will be a boost to the economy is a lie, just like the one they say about building a new stadium for a city at taxpayers expense will be a boost to the local economy.

I thought that the USA had more people than jobs, and that the university graduation rates are at an all time high, and yet they keep saying not enough Americans are going and have the skills for high tech jobs. Then how about reforming education and get rid of these "touchy feely" degrees and emphasize hard sciences and technology in colleges and maybe we would have more people supposedly qualfied.

It's all a ruse, and the GOP should not sell out for it. I am for legal immigration, but not the whole scale push that they are doing now.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Obama is THE most underhanded sneakiest President ever!

As the Dude would say, well that's just, like, your opinion, man. The fact is that deportation of undocumented aliens - even those with no criminal record - has hit record highs under Obama. But that is just, like, a fact, man.

http://www.ianwelsh.net/objectively-worse-off-under-obama/

8 ( +10 / -2 )

More burden on the US finical climate are the legals who bring their family members here and they use the free health insurance (which we always had by the way) when they contributed nothing to the nation tax-wise.

And "undocumented citizens" can come here while some are criminals over and above the crime of illegal entry. I do not deny they many are law abiding otherwise and hard working. I prefer selective immigration when they have something to offer the US...... Educated. Productive citizens.

While we are a generous nation I do oppose the increases in my taxes to support this. Property taxes raise faster than inflation. A bubble will burst at some point and the result will be......?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@laguna

As the Dude would say, well that's just, like, your opinion, man. The fact is that deportation of undocumented aliens - even those with no criminal record - has hit record highs under Obama. But that is just, like, a fact, man.

Sorry, NOT scoring Brownie points, yes, on one side, he did do exactly that, but on the flip side, providing a clearer and easier path for more illegals to BECOME LEGAL citizens. Of course, Democrats want to increase their voting block. That is also a fact. One swipe of the pen, executive orders, bypass congress, one party rule? Just saying'.....

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

".....citing the party’s low support among a growing Hispanic community"

Typical Republicans: policy based on poll numbers, not principles.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

@jeff

But liberals care so much or so they say. So tell me, by trying to increase the liberal voting base, that would be considered adding numbers or people if you wish, right? So you guys are actually, putting numbers before principles. And look who's calling the kettle black.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

@bass4funk that's a false dichotomy. Jeff's point was that Republicans are admitting that they're only doing this for poll numbers. While you may have good reason to think that Democrats are doing it for similar reasons, you have no proof that they aren't doing it as altruism. They have the rhetoric to back it up. What Boehner just said was basically "this would look better so I guess we need to do it maybe"

Also I love how executive orders are awful now that Obama's president. And it's one-party rule because we don't have any way to get around EOs. It's never been done before, right? And let's not pretend it's anything other than very few people who are talking about "unconditional" paths to amnesty or citizenship. That's not what Obama is proposing so please stop being disingenuous. Straw men don't really help make your point.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

America has laws these lawless nomadic people are just population pusher they bring nothing to the country but crime they dont want to learn english. The US is not the country it use to be my advice start learning spanish because thats all that is being heard here and spoken!

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

that's a false dichotomy. Jeff's point was that Republicans are admitting that they're only doing this for poll numbers. While you may have good reason to think that Democrats are doing it for similar reasons, you have no proof that they aren't doing it as altruism. They have the rhetoric to back it up. What Boehner just said was basically "this would look better so I guess we need to do it maybe"

No, you don't! The liberals are doing the exact same thing! They are both the same, opposite sides of the coins. I'll say it again, Republicans want the cheap manual labor and the Democrats want to increase their political power base because they are the entitlement party. Both sides want to look good to Hispanics and both are doing whatever they can, because they are increasingly becoming THE fastest growing voting block in the country and MOST Hispanics, like Blacks are socially and fiscally conservative realistically. They have virtually nothing in common with Democrats. They are natural conservatives. If you don't believe that, then you are not dealing with political reality.

Also I love how executive orders are awful now that Obama's president. And it's one-party rule because we don't have any way to get around EOs. It's never been done before, right? And let's not pretend it's anything other than very few people who are talking about "unconditional" paths to amnesty or citizenship. That's not what Obama is proposing so please stop being disingenuous. Straw men don't really help make your point.

So why have a congress?? What's the point? Remember, what comes around. Democrats won't hold the seat of power forever, I would be careful, because once that book is opened, Democrats like Republicans will remember all of this. What comes around... By the way, when did liberals make ANY valid points on any issue?

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

This is funny. Seeing how over 80+% of fruit, veggies and nuts come from California, whos gonna pick that for you? You? Doubt it! There HAS to be some sort of corporate crackdown on employing the illegals, put them on the payrolls with a SS#. Or watch your fresh food skyrocket.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

One swipe of the pen, executive orders, bypass congress, one party rule? Just saying'.

It's clear that you're "just saying'" because that would be legally impossible. It is Congress which creates immigration and citizenship law, not the Executive branch; the latter can determine how to prioritize enforcement of existing law (and as noted above, Obama has been aggressive with deportation) but may not alter law itself.

Many above comments appear to reveal misconceptions. For example:

The number of undocumented aliens is not increasing; it is decreasing: compared with 12 million in 2007, there were 11 million in 2010 (and likely less now). That said, deporting such a large number of people is both unfeasible and inhumane. Allowing a large undocumented population to live in the shadows is unhealthy both for them and for the country. They live lives of great uncertainty, are preyed upon by both employers and criminals due to their reluctance to seek help, and often work under-the-table, thus not paying taxes (and even when they do work with a forged Social Security ID, they pay payroll taxes but are not eligible for benefits.) They also have no incentive to more fully integrate themselves into American society. The Democrats are not calling for immediate citizenship. In fact, the bill pending in the Senate would require "at least 13 years to get all the way to citizenship. They’d have to pay taxes, fees and $2,000 in fines. No one who entered the country after Dec. 31, 2011, or had a felony conviction or more than three misdemeanors would be eligible." Citizenship itself is negotiable. Dems know that the GOP is worried about adding a large block of possibly liberal-leaning voters; it is possible that permanent status minus voting rights might be a compromise. Dems would like to pass comprehensive immigration reform - including the four areas of: "—What to do about the 11 million-plus immigrants who live in the U.S. without legal permission. —How to tighten border security. —How to keep businesses from employing people who are in the U.S. illegally. —How to improve the legal immigration system, now so convoluted that the adjective “Byzantine” pops up all too frequently" as a package because they don't trust that the GOP will deal in good faith with the first if it can simply get its way with the latter three; many feel they have good reason for this distrust.

This is an issue with serious ramifications to the US. To pretend that it can be solved by simply deporting 10,000,000 people is unrealistic; to ignore it is irresponsible. I hope Boehner and the House GOP are able to overcome their extreme right flank and do what is necessary for the country.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

For much to say about immigrants if they do their job without hesitation and do not disturb the community of others or even cause a disturbance then yes they should be allowed equal approval.

In my Opinion, illegal immigrants are given low down jobs to support their family's and have their kids have a better education for them to keep themselves above. if they were to take those jobs, it would give the majority of these who want careers a better chance of getting them.

Overall: The reform could be a good procedure if they set their priorities straight. any more limits will cause some trouble for either side.

P.S To those want "them to go home," that just makes you more ignorant then of those you are talking about. making the terms that you are the lowest of the low by accusing someone just because they do something better or equally tasked. come on, how can you call no rights to someone who can do the same job.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Net immigration is reversing anyway with the global rise in middle class. "Conservatis-izm" is about how things transition. For example Single Payer is more conservative than Obamacare (which is a Conservative idea anyway) since govt. healthcare is growing and growing with or without Obama. For immigration if less people (simply because they don't want to) are illegally entering the USA anyway what would the real conservative solution be for that? Not build mile high fences. But of course keep a good balance since someone has to wipe the butts.

"Yeah! Time for the Republicans to play Santa Claus like the Democrats!" They do...and have. Remember when George W. Bush sent out all those checks for 600 dollars to all its American citizens? Even in Japan. GWB!! You are my one and only Santa!!

"because they promise them FREE stuff" But what about GWB and those checks for 600 dollars. Republicans give lots of free stuff too. Both George 1st (women's health issues) and Reagan (catastrophic coverage) are on record for moving Medicaid forward.

So to review what I said, I never got one cent from any Democrat politician. But I got real money (that I could hold in my fingers) from a Republican - GWB.

This proves the entitlement party is the Republicans and not the Democrats. But the "entitlement" stories come from Reagan's presidential campaign which were actually false.

BTW, ObamaCare (a "mandate") is "conservative" to encourage "responsibility" and stop "freeloading" from America's healthcare (---Romney during his presidential campaign)

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I respect Boehner for at least attempting to get Republicans to look at the bigger issue, but I don't think he's going to win. I'm betting that right now there are challengers to House Republican seats who will see this as a golden opportunity to primary anyone who supports the bigger picture.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Agreed, Superlib, but the timing does not work for them at all.

One possible compromise would be for the party to agree basic principles on immigration reform but postpone a vote on any new law until a new Congress sits in 2015.

If they pushed things to a vote before, say, June, they would invite Tea Party insurgencies, so that is out of the question. If they voted between June and November, they would depress their base, so that is also unlikely. If they did as suggested in the quote above, they would anger their base while achieving nothing except display of their internal rivalries.

I am confused as to why Boehner even brought this issue up considering the realities he faces; perhaps the Kumbaya spirit of Obama's SOTU got to him. It is unlikely that the GOP will make any move on immigration this year. The party is simply not equipped to grapple with the necessities America faces.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Sorry, but it makes me laugh when these Republicans say they want to look good for Hispanics, kind of the same joke as when they want to look good for Blacks and other minorities. Sorry, but just take a look at who makes up the the Republican party. You may his find a few token brown and black faces but not even the white faces are your regular Americans, Boehner etc..are the so called 1% of the richest folk in the USA. Do you all think they want to share their wealth??? Hahaha!! Heck no! Nothing new so now with this immigration reform, just politics. How many Hispanics will fall for the Republican lies?? If 1, that is 1 too many!

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The real issue is actually privatizing profits and socializing costs and losses. The battle lines are not as they seem.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I think Mexico has a very exciting future. The younger population is very high percentage. Also, the richest man in the world now is Mexican. I was reading a story that for the more and more Mexicans who are finding their opportunities just want to stay put since life is getting better and better. Some people want to talk about the conservative solution? It will take care of itself, mostly as their middle class rise and rise. That's conservative and this is beyond any politician's control.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Laguna: I am confused as to why Boehner even brought this issue up considering the realities he faces; perhaps the Kumbaya spirit of Obama's SOTU got to him. It is unlikely that the GOP will make any move on immigration this year. The party is simply not equipped to grapple with the necessities America faces.

I think Boehner sees the writing on the wall, but he just can't find a way to accomplish broader Republican goals like getting the White House back. They are just too many radicals in his party to make that happen and the radicals seem content to be kings of their little slice of the House rather than putting forth a more comprehensive plan for the party or the country overall. We'll see how successful he will be with immigration but it will probably take more losses by Republican on national issues before others start to get on board.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

"I think Mexico has a very exciting future."

People have been saying that ever since NAFTA. However, Mexico has lagged behind its neighbors, with annual gdp of less than 1%. More evidence that free trade kills growth and opportunities.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

5.1 4.0 3.8 GDP What? Growth? What are you talking about? Above numbers last few years for growth. Can you be more specific?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

As long as Mexico has corruption in the government Mexico will go nowhere.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

You are reading the wrong news sources. How can that be so when net immigration is reversing and more Mexicans want to stay?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"Can you be more specific?"

Annual GDP growth adjusted for population (per capita) since NAFTA went into effect: "Out of 20 Latin American countries, Mexico ranks 18, with growth of less than 1 percent annually since 1994."

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-weisbrot/twenty-years-since-nafta_b_4555148.html

0 ( +0 / -0 )

That link goes nowhere. Quarterly or yearly? According to wiki the 2012 YEARLY is 3.6 for Mexico and 2.8 for the US. Are you confusing quarterly with yearly? Because more Mexicans are intending on staying put. The numbers you are citing just don't match with what I am reading. Check annual vs. quarterly. I mean if Mexico beat the states in 2012 it can't be all that bad, can it? This is all blamed on NAFTA? Ross Perot's giant sucking sound?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

GDP per capita, a figure adjusted for population growth, and it's annual. Latin America has high population growth rates, so any economic growth figure needs to take this into account.

Here's another link. http://www.cepr.net/index.php/op-eds-&-columns/op-eds-&-columns/twenty-years-since-nafta-mexico-could-have-done-worse-but-its-not-clear-how

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"Yeah! Time for the Republicans to play Santa Claus like the Democrats!" They do...and have. Remember when George W. Bush sent out all those checks for 600 dollars to all its American citizens? Even in Japan. GWB!! You are my one and only Santa!!

And why did he do it? Don't just tell Hal of it, what was the sole purpose of doing that?

"because they promise them FREE stuff" But what about GWB and those checks for 600 dollars. Republicans give lots of free stuff too. Both George 1st (women's health issues) and Reagan (catastrophic coverage) are on record for moving Medicaid forward.

My parents paid for my first year of college and after that it was on me. Giving help or a small assistance is completely different than giving away stuff just to give away and to never teach self-reliance, which is quite opposite of what democrats do which is create dependency, which compounds to the problem. There is a huge difference between getting FREE stuff for the rest of your life and FREE stuff of a LIMITED time.

So to review what I said, I never got one cent from any Democrat politician. But I got real money (that I could hold in my fingers) from a Republican - GWB.

Of course, you would NEVER get a cent from ANY Democrat, you might get lucky and get money, but it'd be from the taxpayer or as in the case of most big cities, you'll be taxed to the hilt. That's why a Dems do, take other people's money. Rob from Paul to give to Peter.

This proves the entitlement party is the Republicans and not the Democrats. But the "entitlement" stories come from Reagan's presidential campaign which were actually false.

What a bunch of horse****! If you think the party of dependency are the Republicans, I don't know what to tell. Who increased welfare? Who increased unemployment? Who is known as the food stamp president? Who increased entitlement benefits? Definitely NOT Republicans! That is a straight up lie! Unbelievable!

BTW, ObamaCare (a "mandate") is "conservative" to encourage "responsibility" and stop "freeloading" from America's healthcare (---Romney during his presidential campaign)

If there even a smidgen of truth to that propagated lie, CA would be THE most prosperous state, but since liberals completely destroyed my home state. 2/3 of Americans are not happy with THIS president. Every poll shows it. It's not about skin color, it's all about his constant lies lack of knowledge of the issues and radical policies.

@El

Sorry, but it makes me laugh when these Republicans say they want to look good for Hispanics, kind of the same joke as when they want to look good for Blacks and other minorities.

Of course, since the Dems look and continue to look so bad. The Democratic Party has done more to destroy these two groups than anything else they touch, besides taking other people's money. Go to ANY of the biggest cities where you have liberals govern and the highest concentration of minorities. Philly, Chicago, NY, L.A., Detroit... Liberals have built a climate of social dependency that is abysmal, disgusting and is killing these people. To give you a little credit, the Republicans have done a lousy job at recruiting minorities in the past, but that has been changing. Blacks and Hispanics have essentially nothing in common with Democrats.

Sorry, but just take a look at who makes up the the Republican party. You may his find a few token brown and black faces but not even the white faces are your regular Americans, Boehner etc..are the so called 1% of the richest folk in the USA. Do you all think they want to share their wealth??? Hahaha!! Heck no! Nothing new so now with this immigration reform, just politics. How many Hispanics will fall for the Republican lies?? If 1, that is 1 too many!

And before you start to speculate and carry on about something you are very unfamiliar with, let me tell you, there are NO tokens, if any, it's these two groups that were and still to this very minute are used and abused from the party that wants to keep you on the government teat. I'm from OC, you know the contrast between the 2 counties. Not far apart. Mostly Republican or conservative people live there. Extremely clean, vibrant, prosperous, many Hispanics and some Blacks, thousands of Asians. Now drive between the 2 counties and you will see with your very own eyes, which political has helped these minorities.

http://hnn.us/article/3554

Historically, the Dems are the ones that have brought more pain, misery and suffering to both groups, more than any other organization, except the Klan.

@laguna

I am confused as to why Boehner even brought this issue up considering the realities he faces; perhaps the Kumbaya spirit of Obama's SOTU got to him. It is unlikely that the GOP will make any move on immigration this year. The party is simply not equipped to grapple with the necessities America faces.

The party is well-equipped, but Boehner saw the job reports of many Fortune 500 companies and it's not pretty, the high-tech industry is booming and companies like Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, these companies want to outsource and hire people from countries like India, Pakistan etc. jobs that locally should belong to Americans. This the main reason as to why the GOP is advancing the issue. Now many of these illegals have been here for some time. For the ones that followed our rules and law, at least make an effort to learn English, I have no problem with that. But the criminals and law breakers should be sent back. The Democrats have shown, there way is to create more poverty, less wealth and prosperity for these people.

@super

I think Boehner sees the writing on the wall, but he just can't find a way to accomplish broader Republican goals like getting the White House back.

And the Dems in their desperation and how the public feels about them are trying to hold on to the Senate.

They are just too many radicals in his party to make that happen and the radicals seem content to be kings of their little slice of the House rather than putting forth a more comprehensive plan for the party or the country overall.

We already have a king in the White House, he did say, he was going to sign and bypass congress with the wave of his pen. Only a King would advocate such a thing.

We'll see how successful he will be with immigration but it will probably take more losses by Republican on national issues before others start to get on board.

Since BOTH parties have failed miserably in the immigration department, we shall see, but both sides did a very piss poor job at handling the immigration nightmare.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

"GDP per capita, a figure adjusted for population growth" 1%??? Some charts report this as quarterly and it seems the writer was taking that as yearly and did not look carefully. Sure, some bad years but really 1% growth? 20 years? The world middle class is catching up, no matter what. But also check out per cap GDP, itself. It varies down south but it's not like Mexico is the North Korea of that region (some higher and some lower). I'm not sure what information to take seriously from you since it seems you were confusing 'yearly' and 'quarterly'. And did the professional writer from the dead url confuse those two and you got the wrong facts from that source (also the one you just gave)? But if you want to be negative that's fine. I will be positive. Mexico's top billionaire (which is also the world's it seems) is not a drug dealer.

"It's not about skin color" Yes, it is since he continued so many of GWB's policies. Sorry, I have proof of what I said from all those Benjamins (six of them) was holding in my hands. That's the whole story. I also quoted Romney about the mandate. A quote!! As they invented RomneyCare (since Nixon) the Republicans want it just as much but don't want to admit it. What Reagan said was false as he was campaigning for his sales pitch (I don't blame him...he was simply trying to win). During Republicans in the WH I got lots of free education and had almost no student debt upon graduation. Obama? Look at all those students in debt. If I were graduating now (with a Democrat in the WH) I would have much higher debt from having less grants (free money). There is more proof (me personally) of the Repubs being Santa. Sorry those checks came out with Republicans in the WH. I got more cold hard cash from the Reps. It's a fact. Obama's numbers are higher than that. FYI, I would not have cared if Romney would have won the WH since he would have continued with ObamaCare anyway.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

And did the professional writer from the dead url confuse those two and you got the wrong facts from that source (also the one you just gave)? But if you want to be negative that's fine. I will be positive. Mexico's top billionaire (which is also the world's it seems) is not a drug dealer.

Dead URL? Some more ad hom attacks? Has nothing to do with being negative, and even if Mexico has the top Billionaire, doesn't take from the fact, Mexico, although full of rich natural resources is still a third world country, run by corrupt politicians and drug lords, that's a fact, nothing to dispute.

"It's not about skin color" Yes, it is since he continued so many of GWB's policies. Sorry, I have proof of what I said from all those Benjamins (six of them) was holding in my hands. That's the whole story.

Another liberal lie. If you want to take it there, then you can say, Obama greatly benefitted from being Black, there is no disputing that. So liberals DO love to use the race card issue and they constantly do it.

I also quoted Romney about the mandate. A quote!! As they invented RomneyCare (since Nixon) the Republicans want it just as much but don't want to admit it. What Reagan said was false as he was campaigning for his sales pitch (I don't blame him...he was simply trying to win).

No Republican want any healthcare system of the likes of Obamacare and Romneycare was designed for the state of Massachusetts, NOT the entire US. There is no way, Romneycare would would have worked in a state like CA or ANY of the other big states. Again, another liberal lie.

would not have cared if Romney would have won the WH since he would have continued with ObamaCare anyway.

Where are you getting this disinformation from??

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

3.9, 3.9, 5.3, -6,1.2, 3.3, 5.2, 3.2, 4.1, 1.4, 0.8, -0.2, 6.6, 3.9, 4.9, 6.8, 5.1, -6.2, 4.5 2012-1994 %GDP growth. Average comes to 2.72% over those years. That story was so shamefully wrong (confusing quarterly and annually it was yanked from Huff Post. I can't trust information from that person when he reports numbers that are so off.

"We already have a king in the White House"

Definitions of "king": "the male ruler of an independent state, esp. one who inherits the position by right of birth." "a male ruler of a country who usually inherits his position and rules for life"

Obama didn't inherit anything. And he is not there for life. Why do you keep making stuff up that is false? Based on what you said, how can the other things you said be trusted?

"There is no way, Romneycare would would have worked in a state like CA or ANY of the other big states. Again, another liberal lie."

It already is.

"Where are you getting this disinformation from??" A "mandate" promotes "responsibility" to prevent "freeloading" when people need medical care (-Romney during his pres. campaign). You need to argue with him...not me. He wanted to make it on a national level. You just don't want to accept it. Also, check Dole and Gingrich's quotes on a mandate. "No Republican want any healthcare system of the likes of Obamacare" NixonCare had a lot of similarities to ObamaCare. Did you know that Nixon also wanted a handgun ban? He was a very liberal Republican president. "companies like Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, these companies want to outsource and hire" So? That's free choice. That's conservative. You want that job then you should make yourself better and someone will hire you. American CEOs are the highest paid in the world. Obama is really conservative with a record number of new millionaires under his presidency. "Just because you are not making a hundred thousand dollars don't blame the government" (Rush Limbaugh). It seems you are the one wanting the handouts by expecting the government to make you rich. Lots of new rich person. The only reason why you are not rich is you.

"you know the contrast between the 2 counties." How about the contrast between Connecticut and Mississippi (with a Republican governor the last decade). Connecticut is a top earning smart state and Miss is at the bottom. Smart is smart but you can't fix stupid, even with Republican leadership for so many years. It's the culture of Miss. and not politics.

Anyway, tell me about "King" Obama. He's no king, he will leave office soon. You have it all wrong just like everything else. I also want to hear more about Mexico's "less than 1%" GDP annual growth.

Also, what do you think of San Francisco?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It already is.

NOT well at all and by the looks of it, a big chunk or a lot it will be stripped or re-written.

NixonCare had a lot of similarities to ObamaCare. Did you know that Nixon also wanted a handgun ban? He was a very liberal Republican president.

I'm sorry, what happened to Nixon again?

So? That's free choice. That's conservative. You want that job then you should make yourself better and someone will hire you. American CEOs are the highest paid in the world.

Yes and why outsource when there are thousands of people sitting at home, unemployed, Americans or at the very least people that have been living here, went to school, know the culture and the language, but are not allowed to work. These people should of course come first. Of course, I don't want ANY of those jobs falling in foreigners hands.

Obama is really conservative with a record number of new millionaires under his presidency. "Just because you are not making a hundred thousand dollars don't blame the government" (Rush Limbaugh). It seems you are the one wanting the handouts by expecting the government to make you rich. Lots of new rich person. The only reason why you are not rich is you.

Dude, I'll put it to you like this, I personally don't NEED ANYTHING from the government, I'm very, very comfortable financially, I would never take anything from Obama, of he gave it to me for free. I don't have to suffer from this president, I DO have the power and privilege to leave and live ANYWHERE at my choosing. I had 25 years of a great career in the TV industry and privately I work in the entertainment industry iin Germany and Austria and self-employed. I'm better than fine! I just have a lot of empathy for my fellow Americans and sick and tired of them getting the shaft by this president and politicians that don't give a fig! That is where all my frustration comes from!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I personally don't NEED ANYTHING from the government, I'm very, very comfortable financially, I would never take anything from Obama, of he gave it to me for free.

Really? You don't drive on the roads? You would prefer to not have a police force with criminals running rampant? You would prefer to not have any government services whatsoever? Are you living in the forest like a hermit or something? I'm guessing not, seeing as you have internet (which by the way, came via that same government you're whinging about).

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Really? You don't drive on the roads? You would prefer to not have a police force with criminals running rampant? You would prefer to not have any government services whatsoever? Are you living in the forest like a hermit or something? I'm guessing not, seeing as you have internet (which by the way, came via that same government you're whinging about).

Lol, good one! But you know exactly what I'm talking about. I work in the private sector. Now you're trying to make that same ludicrous argument like the time when Obama told Steve Jobs, he didn't build that. So all of his success wasn't his own. We all use the government in some form or another, but my business, everything I worked for, all the money and Capitol that was put into it was all private. No debt, I don't own anyone, car paid off, No stress, No hassle, No worries, my kids are in private school, I buy everything in cash, No credit card debt, so in that sense, to be PC! NO, I don't take ANYTHING from the government and what I do pay, the IRS makes sure they get their cut. I'm cool with that. It's all part of the game.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

"I'm sorry, what happened to Nixon again?" What do you mean? He's republican so he's a good guy. Plus Romney/Dole/Gingrich are on record for support for the mandate. Nixon was very smart and he is one of my favorite ex-presidents.

"when there are thousands of people sitting at home" Then make themselves better and get jobs. It's America. I read about one senior executive of AMEX who is not American but from Sri Lanka (studying finance is big in that country). He survived the country's turmoil and made himself rich at a famous American company with his financial and business talents. Only the best people get the best jobs. That's capitalism. Like when more star athletes who are non-Americans competing with the Americans for the starting squad. The rest who don't make it? Well, someone has to flip the burgers. "That's life" (Rush Limbaugh).

You are in Socialist Germany? Happy there? Then are you complaining about a socialist president?

"I don't want ANY of those jobs falling in foreigners hands." But Steve Jobs says that is unavoidable and he is OK about it.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"I'm sorry, what happened to Nixon again?" What do you mean? He's republican so he's a good guy. Plus Romney/Dole/Gingrich are on record for support for the mandate. Nixon was very smart and he is one of my favorite ex-presidents.

Nixon was a good guy? So I guess you think president Wilson was a peach of a guy as well.

"when there are thousands of people sitting at home" Then make themselves better and get jobs. It's America. I read about one senior executive of AMEX who is not American but from Sri Lanka (studying finance is big in that country). He survived the country's turmoil and made himself rich at a famous American company with his financial and business talents. Only the best people get the best jobs. That's capitalism.

I don't have a problem with that at all, I am all for diversity and for anyone that wants to come to America, abide by our laws and custom and culture, by all means, however, I do have a serious problem with anyone breaking the law, entering the country illegally, cutting in front of the line, the people that were ahead first should be processed accordingly and depending on the outcome, be able to get their Visa or citizenship and NOT people who cheated the system. So it's NOT only the best of the best. It's about who came first, who followed protocol and anyone that cheats the system or a person that followed the rules, should be disqualified immediately!

I don't have residency in Germany. So I don't have to worry about German politics. As for Apple and other Tech companies, of course it's avoidable, just give the jobs to QUALIFIED Americans FIRST, that should MANDATORY!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I don't have residency in Germany. So I don't have to worry about German politics. As for Apple and other Tech companies, of course it's avoidable, just give the jobs to QUALIFIED Americans FIRST, that should MANDATORY!

That doesn't make sense. Free market capitalism means giving the job to whoever is the most skilled or provides the most return on profit. Picking Americans for the job because they're American smacks of mercantilism, the very thing the US is always criticising.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

That doesn't make sense. Free market capitalism means giving the job to whoever is the most skilled or provides the most return on profit. Picking Americans for the job because they're American smacks of mercantilism, the very thing the US is always criticizing.

Utter BS! There are millions of home talent, home grown, highly skilled and highly educated! Millions! Where they can easily make huge profits and see high returns! Why look OUTSIDE just to save money, when you can give someone, a NATIVE person, mind you a job. Fill those jobs first. Then once those jobs have been filled with Americans, be my guest. I am sick and tired of all these big corporations trying to save money by paying someone from Sri Lanka less, than paying an American.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Utter BS! There are millions of home talent, home grown, highly skilled and highly educated! Millions! Where they can easily make huge profits and see high returns! Why look OUTSIDE just to save money, when you can give someone, a NATIVE person, mind you a job. Fill those jobs first. Then once those jobs have been filled with Americans, be my guest. I am sick and tired of all these big corporations trying to save money by paying someone from Sri Lanka less, than paying an American.

You're advocating mercantilism again. This is going against what the free market economics that the US is always preaching other countries should follow.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

You're advocating mercantilism again. This is going against what the free market economics that the US is always preaching other countries should follow.

No, sorry. I'm talking about specifically the FREE market in the US, NOT internationally. Internationally, what the US does globally, fine. But domestically, raise homegrown talent first. we need to take care of our own first.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

"QUALIFIED Americans FIRST, that should MANDATORY!" Steve Jobs does not agree and he is(was) the smart genius billionaire and not you. It's not feasible at this time to expect Americans to build iPhones (but some design them).

"There are millions of home talent, home grown, highly skilled and highly educated! Millions! " No, there are millions of unfilled jobs (such as advanced factory positions that require a associate's degree and vocational skills combined) where there are not enough people to fill them.

You have been working overseas and you are complaining about non-Americans building iPhones?

"entering the country illegally," This is reversing due to the rise in middle class outside America. This was established before. The claim of Mexico's extremely low growth (less than 1%) was knocked down from the report (so shameful it was pulled) that confuses yearly and quarterly GDP growth as if Mexico is North Korea (or worse). Also, people building iPhones are legally working in China to do so. The Taiwanese company FOXCON has legally established a giant operation in China and legally hired Chinese people. America is legally importing them.

"Sri Lanka less, than paying an American." What if the non-American is better?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"QUALIFIED Americans FIRST, that should MANDATORY!" Steve Jobs does not agree and he is(was) the smart genius billionaire and not you. It's not feasible at this time to expect Americans to build iPhones (but some design them).

Another ad hom personal attack? You don't know anything about me, but you feel it's ok to throw petty insults?

"There are millions of home talent, home grown, highly skilled and highly educated! Millions! " No, there are millions of unfilled jobs (such as advanced factory positions that require a associate's degree and vocational skills combined) where there are not enough people to fill them.

So then fill them with skilled qualified AMERICANS!

You have been working overseas and you are complaining about non-Americans building iPhones?

I'm complaining about AMERICANS in AMERICA getting the shaft, you're not reading my posts correctly.

"entering the country illegally," This is reversing due to the rise in middle class outside America. This was established before. The claim of Mexico's extremely low growth (less than 1%) was knocked down from the report (so shameful it was pulled) that confuses yearly and quarterly GDP growth as if Mexico is North Korea (or worse). Also, people building iPhones are legally working in China to do so.

The Taiwanese company FOXCON has legally established a giant operation in China and legally hired Chinese people. America is legally importing them.

Yes, I remember a lot of employee abuse that was going on, how could I forget.

"Sri Lanka less, than paying an American." What if the non-American is better?

If it's overseas, fine. But I want to see Americans put to work first.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

"You don't know anything about me, but you feel it's ok to throw petty insults?" Overall who is smarter you or Steve Jobs? It's just a question. But I think even Steve Jobs had stupid ideas.

"So then fill them with skilled qualified AMERICANS!" It's always in the news that they don't exist. The number is 5 million.

Most of those stories about FOXCON were false...like the Mexico less-than-1%-annual-growth-over-the last-20-years story. Should iPhones be manufactured in the USA? When FOXCON moved their manufacturing operation to China it did screw over a lot of local Taiwanese. But that's the way the global market is moving. Taiwan also has a lot to complain about. In fact where are Sony and Nokia phones made? Are any of them made in Japan or Finland? 2012 Nokia made their last Finish-made handset.

"I want to see Americans put to work first." A CEO cannot keep his job if he thinks like that.

Rush Limbaugh makes the point of "refusing to participate" in how the markets adversely affect your own personal job outlooks. It's up to you to make yourself the better person so you are wanted (paraphrasing Bill O'Reilly from FOX news). There are 5 million unfilled jobs that require a hybrid qualification (2-yr degree plus voc. skills, which Obama talked about). You know what? Maybe there is the German solution for that. You live in Germany and I'd bet there is a good chance you don't know what that is. But then you might think it's socialism. What is the German solution? Also, if life is so bad in Cal. then why do so many tech. people love living in SF?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It's always in the news that they don't exist. The number is 5 million.

Then let's put THOSE people back to work or give them a chance.

Most of those stories about FOXCON were false

And your evidence of that is... And you know this because of...

A CEO cannot keep his job if he thinks like that.

I know 2 people that are CEOs and they all employee Americans ONLY. They seem to be doing very fine, so it depends, but of course, it's possible.

You know what? Maybe there is the German solution for that. You live in Germany and I'd bet there is a good chance you don't know what that is. But then you might think it's socialism. What is the German solution? Also, if life is so bad in Cal. then why do so many tech. people love living in SF?

Lot of people are trying to get these yuppies out.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/justinesharrock/san-franciscos-last-rebellion-against-the-techies>

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

'Then let's put THOSE people back to work or give them a chance." Impossible. They are not good enough. Advanced manufacturing is taking off in the USA. But there are not enough competent people to handle those jobs. If they lack the basic education and competence...again, you can't fix stupid.

"And your evidence of that is... And you know this because of..." A few internal problems that have been long long long resolved and companies know people are watching. But mainly there were some bogus reports that were verified as being bogus. There are no confirmed reports now, anyway. And Apple execs. went to FOXCON to make sure all is square. And it is. You don't like it then don't buy an portable electronic devices.

"I know 2 people that are CEOs and they all employee Americans ONLY. They seem to be doing very fine, so it depends, but of course, it's possible." Fortune 500 CEOs?

"Lot of people are trying to get these yuppies out." Rush Limbaugh would not feel sorry for these people and would say they simply feel sorry for themselves since they could not achieve the American dream. So they blame other people instead of looking at themselves. I heard the same story. The world will always be full of winners and losers. Again, "that's life" (Rush Limbaugh). These people will help save lives when they help push forward the tech. of self-driving cars that have almost no accidents. They are my heroes. If I was not smart enough to be a tech worker I would try to work among them in the service business (lots of good tip$). When I say loser, I mean whiner.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

No, sorry. I'm talking about specifically the FREE market in the US, NOT internationally. Internationally, what the US does globally, fine. But domestically, raise homegrown talent first. we need to take care of our own first.

So it's OK for the US to force other countries to adopt neo-liberal measures while it protects its own markets? That's hypocrisy on the highest level.

And even if it wasn't hypocrisy, 'taking care of our own first' is still going against the type of capitalism that the US preaches and is so desperate for ther rest of the world to take on board. Isn't the US supposed to lead by example?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Boehner says it is time for U.S. to deal with immigration reform

America answers: Time for Boehner to deal with Republican reform.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

'Then let's put THOSE people back to work or give them a chance." Impossible. They are not good enough. Advanced manufacturing is taking off in the USA. But there are not enough competent people to handle those jobs. If they lack the basic education and competence...again, you can't fix stupid.

You don't know that! You went and spoke to every Ivy-league college graduate to find out? No, you didn't! So let's try and offer these people the opportunist to prove themselves first, make sure we scout for the best raw talent in the states before heading off looking for these people in a 3rd world country. Americans first.

"And your evidence of that is... And you know this because of..." A few internal problems that have been long long long resolved and companies know people are watching.

I'm not going there. There have been more than enough documentation on many of the abuse allegations that were brought forward. I'll go by the deposition and and the written complaints that were submitted in first, before I believe some crap jargon that was put up on the blogosphere.

"Lot of people are trying to get these yuppies out." Rush Limbaugh would not feel sorry for these people and would say they simply feel sorry for themselves since they could not achieve the American dream. So they blame other people instead of looking at themselves.

Hardly and the people that do as in typical liberal fashion, they expect a job to fall in their hands and expect government to again, give them FREE stuff.

I heard the same story. The world will always be full of winners and losers. Again, "that's life" (Rush Limbaugh). These people will help save lives when they help push forward the tech. of self-driving cars that have almost no accidents. They are my heroes. If I was not smart enough to be a tech worker I would try to work among them in the service business (lots of good tip$). When I say loser, I mean whiner.

I don't have a problem with anyone working as they should, it's not about what they are not bringing to the city, it's what they are bringing and they are bringing in a culture of progressive liberalism to shape that area and mold it to their image, which destroyed that entire area changing the culture to the point where even your average liberal isn't happy and that speaks volumes. SF and the whole Silicon Valley culture has always been liberal bastion for ueber-liberalism, but now their own way of life is being bit, by bit eroded, to the point, other businesses don't have a real chance on bringing other vital manufacturing to the area and rightfully, much needed.

And even if it wasn't hypocrisy, 'taking care of our own first' is still going against the type of capitalism that the US preaches and is so desperate for ther rest of the world to take on board. Isn't the US supposed to lead by example?

No, it's not. Of course, the country has and should take care of its people first and allow them to flourish with all the opportunities Capitolism allows in OUR country for OUR people. Once that need has been met, then I don't see a problem with helping others.

@JT

America answers: Time for Boehner to deal with Republican reform.

Maybe it might be a good thing, because one of the ideas is for the Republicans to offer illegals proper work visas, so that many of these people can get out of the shadows and put their skills to use, they earn money, pay taxes, but the plan doesn't call for citizenship, just for work purposes ONLY. This would be in a sense beating Democrats at they own game they many are pushing for citizenship, which SHOULD take time, they need to wait in the line like everyone else, NO special treatment, but at least they would be able to work legally, I think that would be fair. That essentially would but Democrats in a political bind. So in that sense, good move on Boehner.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Boehner says it is time for U.S. to deal with immigration reform

How about enforcing the laws from the last immigration reform? Oh the heck with it - just do whatever it takes to get people to stop talking about it and come back in another 25 years and do it all over again.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I know that, the number is 5 million. It's in the news. Then the US should adopt the German system.

There is nothing in the news about the Apple story these days, like Obama being born in South Africa. If it were that bad at FOXCON there would be a lot on youtube these days. If you feel guilty about this you should not buy an electronic device.

"progressive liberalism to shape that area" Translated to "bitterness and jealousy from the have-nots"? But I thought the people who have more money are the conservatives. The innovators. As Mr. Limbaugh says "that's life". What's happening in SF is conservative since that is what is happening in its natural transition. You should join those people who gather in groups and bitterly protest the techies then. You just criticizing people for having more money or their attitude is being liberal.

Are your two friends fortune 500 CEOs? Are they real CEOs?

" I don't see a problem with helping others." That's progressive liberalism. Giving free handouts.

Don't forget immigration is reversing in numbers with the growing global middle class. That's the conservative approach.

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There is nothing in the news about the Apple story these days, like Obama being born in South Africa. If it were that bad at FOXCON there would be a lot on youtube these days. If you feel guilty about this you should not buy an electronic device.

No one was talking about Obama. And I would NEVER use Youtube as a source for ANY news information and I have nothing to feel guilty about. I have enough money.

"progressive liberalism to shape that area" Translated to "bitterness and jealousy from the have-nots"? But I thought the people who have more money are the conservatives. The innovators.

IF you want to to call Hollywood innovators, then so be it. Has nothing to do with jealousy, but everything to do with people wanting the selfish yuppies to relocate, nothing wrong with that.

As Mr. Limbaugh says "that's life". What's happening in SF is conservative since that is what is happening in its natural transition. You should join those people who gather in groups and bitterly protest the techies then. You just criticizing people for having more money or their attitude is being liberal.

Sorry, but SF or CA is THE largest liberal echo chamber in the US. I want everyone to do well, bit in CA it doesn't matter since you'll pay up the rear in taxes for it. Nothing to be jealous about, in fact, it's a very sad situation. Also, why do you keep quoting Limbaugh? He is a talk show host, an entertainer.

Are your two friends fortune 500 CEOs? Are they real CEOs?

YES

Don't forget immigration is reversing in numbers with the growing global middle class. That's the conservative approach.

And a Democratic president that is pushing them out and deporting them.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

What credible news source do you have now about outstanding abuses in the FOXCON large factory complex in China? Stories were even retracted when found to be false.

Fortune 500 companies and they only hire Americans? "I know 2 people that are CEOs and they all employee Americans ONLY" If you can't tell me which companies then you are lying,

Don't you listen to Rush Limbaugh? The conservatives are the job creators. All those Google people are providing a great economy for SF. They help the month trickle down that benefits all. So if you are not a techie then you can work at Starbucks and do pretty well with tips.

"call Hollywood innovators" People who come out of Stanford (America's millionaire factory). They innovate and create jobs (conservative economics).

No, immigration is reversing by itself. "for liberals, it increases their voting block," so then why would Obama push people out who vote for him? You are contradicting yourself. Like your story about your two friends run global fortune 500 companies but only employ Americans.

Seriously, you have two friends who are CEOs of American fortune 500 companies and you claim they hire no non-Americans? You really have to tell more about that!

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What credible news source do you have now about outstanding abuses in the FOXCON large factory complex in China? Stories were even retracted when found to be false.

AP, Reuters, ABC, CNN, FOX, NBC, NY Times. These are NOT Chinese news source.

Fortune 500 companies and they only hire Americans? "I know 2 people that are CEOs and they all employee Americans ONLY" If you can't tell me which companies then you are lying,

They are MY friends, I have been to their companies and have seen with my own eyes, the people that work there are Americans. They have the right to hire whomever they want, whether you choose to believe so or not is not important.

Don't you listen to Rush Limbaugh?

No.

The conservatives are the job creators. All those Google people are providing a great economy for SF. They help the month trickle down that benefits all. So if you are not a techie then you can work at Starbucks and do pretty well with tips.

Or, work your way up and own it someday. Seems like a smarter thing to do.

No, immigration is reversing by itself. "for liberals, it increases their voting block," so then why would Obama push people out who vote for him? You are contradicting yourself. Like your story about your two friends run global fortune 500 companies but only employ Americans.

I'm talking about Illegals that are already there. We have about 11 to 12 million in CA alone. Of course, liberals want these people to vote Democrat and also why liberals want them to have citizenship. No contradictions, just the facts. Anyone that lives in CA knows that.

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Debunked in all those sources. way way back in history anyway. Just searched Google news for "FOXCON". Just one story of a bribery case leading up to an arrest (the laws are working). I don't see anything about labor abuses. In fact FOXCON is coming to America and your future boss could be Taiwanese.

Which companies? GE? P&G? You are making up fairy tales. A fortune 500 company that does not hire outsiders. Impossible. And you happen to be good friends of two different people who work for two different fortune 500 companies that only hire Americans? And you have been to their companies (that employ tens of thousand) and see they are all 100% pure Americans? You are saying that. You have met all these people. Is that even possible?

"Or, work your way up and own it someday. Seems like a smarter thing to do." No everyone can become Google millionaires or any other millionaire. But don't forget the record number of millionaires under Obama. He must be one heck of a Conservative Democrat. Again someone has to flip the burgers.

"liberals want these people to vote Democrat" Then why are the Democrats pushing them out? You said that. You got Brown in Cal. and Obama in the WH. Why push out their future voters? If they want them to be voters they will want them to become citizens ASAP to secure more votes.

"liberals want them to have citizenship. " (for more votes) "Democratic president that is pushing them out and deporting them." (they would not be able to get more votes) Which is it? You are saying two different things?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

No, it's not. Of course, the country has and should take care of its people first and allow them to flourish with all the opportunities Capitolism allows in OUR country for OUR people. Once that need has been met, then I don't see a problem with helping others.

That is not how it works at all. Do you even know what free-market capitalism is? If you're going to argue that the US should help its own first, then that's fine, but don't call it the 'free market' because that's definitely not what it is. You're advocating mercantilism. And 'helping others'? Really? By doing what? Forcing these poorer countries to enact neo-liberal reforms so their markets ended up getting flooded with cheaper products from other countries thereby depriving them of the ability to develop their own industries? For the US to 'recommend' these measures while not implementing them on itself smakes of hypocrisy and deceit and yes, even gross stupidity from those who can't or are not willing to see the contradiction.

To get a good example of this famous American hypocrisy, look up Miami rice to get an example of how protectionist US has dumped rice from subsidised American farmers into Haiti all in the name of the 'free market', in the process destroying what little there was of the agricultural industry in Haiti.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Debunked in all those sources. way way back in history anyway. Just searched Google news for "FOXCON". Just one story of a bribery case leading up to an arrest (the laws are working). I don't see anything about labor abuses. In fact FOXCON is coming to America and your future boss could be Taiwanese.

I already covered the hardline sources, you choose what you want to believe as do I and I believe the hard facts and try to stay away from the internet.

Which companies? GE? P&G? You are making up fairy tales. A fortune 500 company that does not hire outsiders. Impossible.

It's NOT impossible and I am NOT talking about GE or P&G.

And you happen to be good friends of two different people who work for two different fortune 500 companies that only hire Americans? And you have been to their companies (that employ tens of thousand) and see they are all 100% pure Americans? You are saying that. You have met all these people. Is that even possible?

Sorry, not going to work. I never said such thing. I know these two individuals and one, I am close to and NO, I did not speak to EVERY employee. I don't have to, I know how my friend and the other operate and both their policies are to hire AMERICAN, USA workers. Their business, their right to hire whomever they please.

"Or, work your way up and own it someday. Seems like a smarter thing to do." No everyone can become Google millionaires or any other millionaire. But don't forget the record number of millionaires under Obama. He must be one heck of a Conservative Democrat. Again someone has to flip the burgers.

I never said, EVERYONE, but you DO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY. By the way, more billionaires moved out of the key big blue states and relocated to more tax friendly states to escape these over the top taxes.

"liberals want these people to vote Democrat" Then why are the Democrats pushing them out?

That's Obama, NOT the entire wing of the Democratic party.

You said that. You got Brown in Cal. and Obama in the WH. Why push out their future voters? If they want them to be voters they will want them to become citizens ASAP to secure more votes.

But that's NOT what's going to happen under the new Republican legislature. As I said, it calls for them to be granted work visas mostly, so that they can at least work and pay taxes and start to contribute, minus the citizenship, they would not get that right, for that, they would have to wait their turn just like everyone else and people that were waiting before them.

"liberals want them to have citizenship. " (for more votes) "Democratic president that is pushing them out and deporting them." (they would not be able to get more votes) Which is it? You are saying two different things?

Again, you weren't listening, I was referring to the ones that are already hiding and living in the states, going to school, working and are already quasi in the system. NOT the recent illegals that have been coming over.

@oginome

That is not how it works at all. Do you even know what free-market capitalism is? If you're going to argue that the US should help its own first, then that's fine, but don't call it the 'free market' because that's definitely not what it is. You're advocating mercantilism. And 'helping others'? Really? By doing what? Forcing these poorer countries to enact neo-liberal reforms so their markets ended up getting flooded with cheaper products from other countries thereby depriving them of the ability to develop their own industries? For the US to 'recommend' these measures while not implementing them on itself smakes of hypocrisy and deceit and yes, even gross stupidity from those who can't or are not willing to see the contradiction.

No, sir, I know full well what a FREE market is, but we keep dancing around, I am for employing Americans first as an American, once those jobs have been filled my high tech and skilled Americans, then we can branch out, pure and simple. It helps the country, the private sector and our economy, that is FREE market.

Sorry, I don't care about Haiti, I want to help those people, I feel sorry for them, but my priority is to see Americans help and take care of Americans first.

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There is nothing in the news about FOXCON now. Do you have a friend who works there? An information source? They also don't just make Apple products.Nothing in the newspaper about it. Nothing in credible websites like CNN or BBC. Please provide a current source. How about German news sites since you are in Germany. It's false like the other guy saying annual growth in Mexico is less than 1% (BTW, do you believe that?).

"NOT the recent illegals that have been coming over." Current credible news sources say net immigration is reversing. But Rush Limbaugh type sites say they want free stuff from the American government.

Maybe you are right. Rush Limbaugh moved out of NYC. Have you seen the interior of his bedroom? It's on the Internet. Which states are they moving to, specifically? None of them seem to be in Mississippi which is conservative highly religious but very poor.

Current credible news sources say that ObamaCare was invented by the Republicans. Republicans also are on record for more dangers to gun ownership.

You won't even say which corporations. "I have been to their companies and have seen with my own eyes, the people that work there are Americans." There is no way you could have met tens of thousands of people and verified they are American. Mostly American, yes. But if someone is really needed they are transferred from another outside the USA. Also, the H1B visa. Either say which two fortune 500 corporations or you are lying.

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There is nothing in the news about FOXCON now. Do you have a friend who works there? An information source? They also don't just make Apple products.Nothing in the newspaper about it. Nothing in credible websites like CNN or BBC. Please provide a current source. How about German news sites since you are in Germany. It's false like the other guy saying annual growth in Mexico is less than 1% (BTW, do you believe that?).

Just keep looking, you probably overlooked it or you can google it and you'll see it everywhere.

"NOT the recent illegals that have been coming over." Current credible news sources say net immigration is reversing. But Rush Limbaugh type sites say they want free stuff from the American government.

Once again, you miss the point, I am talking about the illegals ALREADY residing in the US.

Maybe you are right. Rush Limbaugh moved out of NYC. Have you seen the interior of his bedroom? It's on the Internet. Which states are they moving to, specifically? None of them seem to be in Mississippi which is conservative highly religious but very poor.

I have NO idea as to why you keep bringing Limbaugh into the discussion.

Current credible news sources say that ObamaCare was invented by the Republicans. Republicans also are on record for more dangers to gun ownership.

We invented the car as well, but Japan makes a better car. Who bungled, let me rephrase that, who keeps bungling the healthcare system, Obama.

You won't even say which corporations. "I have been to their companies and have seen with my own eyes, the people that work there are Americans." There is no way you could have met tens of thousands of people and verified they are American. Mostly American, yes.

You just keep saying things that are not true. I NEVER said that. You do NOT know these individuals, nor do you know what they do and what their personal look like. But nice try.

But if someone is really needed they are transferred from another outside the USA. Also, the H1B visa. Either say which two fortune 500 corporations or you are lying.

Or you just want to believe what YOU want to believe.

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No, sir, I know full well what a FREE market is, but we keep dancing around, I am for employing Americans first as an American, once those jobs have been filled my high tech and skilled Americans, then we can branch out, pure and simple. It helps the country, the private sector and our economy, that is FREE market.

That's still not what the free market is. You need to educate yourself badly. Putting national interests first is not free market capitalism. It's mercantilism as I need to keep pointing to you.

Sorry, I don't care about Haiti, I want to help those people, I feel sorry for them, but my priority is to see Americans help and take care of Americans first.

Your country helped make Haiti even more impoverished then it already was by robbing Haitians of the one thing they had left : food self-sufficiency. This was achieved through deceit and trickery, by forcing Haiti to enact neo-liberal reforms and the US taking advantage of this to further sustain its own protectionism. Disgusting.

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Limbaugh is a true conservative. I thought you were.

"Just keep looking, you probably overlooked it or you can google it and you'll see it everywhere." I did, there is nothing there. Stories were retracted anyway. Give a link then! Someone credible like BBC or USA Today and not some news page for the paranoia

"who keeps bungling the healthcare system" I don't believe in ObamaCare anyway. I'm for single payer. But some key conservatives are saying single payer is true transition anyway which is conservative.

"I am talking about the illegals ALREADY residing in the US." No, Dems want them to be given citizenship for more free votes for free American stuff. Why would they not want to do that. It's against their logic.

Just tell me which companies. There are 500 fortune 500 companies your two friends work for. Just name them. It's an easy question. You went there. Saw all the workers and made sure all tens of thousands of them are 100% pure Americans. Just name the two companies. It's an easy question to answer.

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Their business, their right to hire whomever they please.

...but only if they're Americans? You're contradicting yourself.

And oginome is right, the free market is not about putting national interests first, it's about unrestricted competition between privately-owned businesses.

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That's still not what the free market is. You need to educate yourself badly. Putting national interests first is not free market capitalism. It's mercantilism as I need to keep pointing to you.

Well, you are to an extent right and there is nothing wrong with wanting to put national interests first for the greater good of the nation to get its people off its feet. And you don't need to educate me, but thanks for the kind gesture.

Your country helped make Haiti even more impoverished then it already was by robbing Haitians of the one thing they had left : food self-sufficiency. This was achieved through deceit and trickery, by forcing Haiti to enact neo-liberal reforms and the US taking advantage of this to further sustain its own protectionism. Disgusting.

Hmmm, did your country help to make it better? Did your country make a difference? Who else was there in full force besides the US? And you never mentioned the corruption that has been going on in Haiti for years and years. Where is your outrage? Why was it that there was so much corruption with a lot of the humanitarian services, some from the US and others from overseas. Don't start and don't get off on a tangent. If you want to believe that lie, you are more than welcome to do so.

"Just keep looking, you probably overlooked it or you can google it and you'll see it everywhere." I did, there is nothing there. Stories were retracted anyway. Give a link then! Someone credible like BBC or USA Today and not some news page for the paranoia

Well, there is, I use mostly Stratfor, didn't overlook anything and the rest of the junk on the internet, I stay away from, if you couldn't find it, don't know what to tell you.

"who keeps bungling the healthcare system" I don't believe in ObamaCare anyway. I'm for single payer. But some key conservatives are saying single payer is true transition anyway which is conservative.

Another exaggerated spin.

No, Dems want them to be given citizenship for more free votes for free American stuff. Why would they not want to do that. It's against their logic.

To strengthen their voting base, that is exactly what they want.

Just tell me which companies. There are 500 fortune 500 companies your two friends work for. Just name them. It's an easy question. You went there. Saw all the workers and made sure all tens of thousands of them are 100% pure Americans. Just name the two companies. It's an easy question to answer.

LOL, I think you just don't want to read what I wrote. First off, I don't need to name them, no need to. Second, I don't need to go anywhere, I know my friends, one of them I have a more closer friendship with and we have known each other since high school, I know him and his work practices and when I say 100% PURE AMERICANS, it means, AMERICANS holding a US PASSPORT, so once again, he hires only Americans and his workers are all AMERICANS, there is your answer.

@cleo

...but only if they're Americans? You're contradicting yourself.

Not at all.

And oginome is right, the free market is not about putting national interests first, it's about unrestricted competition between privately-owned businesses.

He is partially right, but mostly wrong. But I am for advocating giving jobs to qualified Americans first and it's a good thing.

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OK, I wish Romney had won because he would have done a better job with RomneyCare. I'd rather have RomneyCare for America than ObamaCare. It would work much better and conservatives like it.

You made up the stories about your imaginary CEO friends. You can't answer because they don't exist "he hires only Americans" They have enough to manage the hiring of of tens of thousands of people? Really??!! He interviews all these people and hires them themselves? He or they? You said you have two CEO friends. I have never heard of a CEO who is so hands-on about hiring. tens of thousands of people. Do you have one or two friends who are CEOs?

I searched FOXCON in that site and there are absolutely zero articles. There are no stories anywhere! You are still making stuff up. FOXCON is coming to the USA.

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OK, I wish Romney had won because he would have done a better job with RomneyCare. I'd rather have RomneyCare for America than ObamaCare. It would work much better and conservatives like it.

Even in its current state, Romneycare would never work, especially for the entire country.

You made up the stories about your imaginary CEO friends.

I did not, but If you think so, that's your personal opinion and you are entitled to believe what you like.

You can't answer because they don't exist "he hires only Americans" They have enough to manage the hiring of of tens of thousands of people? Really??!! He interviews all these people and hires them themselves? He or they? You said you have two CEO friends. I have never heard of a CEO who is so hands-on about hiring. tens of thousands of people. Do you have one or two friends who are CEOs?

Again, I know what I know, i don't have any reason to lie, there is no benefit for me in doing so, I merely stated, what I sated to you earlier. I will not make any apologies for knowing who or what I know. Beyond that, I don't need to go into further detail about the individuals for various reasons. I merely stated, I know these people and one is a close and personal friend, I know how he works, he wants to use Americans in the workplace and I know how strict he is and that's all. My job is not to make you believe me, I'm just telling you what I know to be factually true. Believe what you like. I'm ok with that.

I searched FOXCON in that site and there are absolutely zero articles.

First off, I know you are lying, there is no way you can surf Stratfor in great detail without purchasing a yearly membership or are you saying, just for this topic you joined and paid a monthly or yearly subscription just to find out about FAXCON, really?? Be careful or your nose will grow.

There are no stories anywhere! You are still making stuff up. FOXCON is coming to the USA.

They can come if they want to I couldn't care less, as long as the don't abuse American workers, why Not?

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nishikatFeb. 06, 2014 - 04:32AM JST OK, I wish Romney had won because he would have done a better job with RomneyCare

Romney simply took new positions after the primaries. He never tried to explain why he had changed his mind. On some issues, he flip-flopped more than once, from before the primaries, to the primaries, to the general election. Romney demonstrated that he had no convictions and no principles. Americans will not elect someone who lacks convictions and principles. People will vote for someone with whom you disagree before you vote for someone you can’t trust. Romney’s refusal to release his tax returns made it appear that he had something to hide and it looked like the thing he was hiding was violations of the tax laws. Americans are not likely to vote for someone who appears to be a criminal trying to hide his crimes. Romney alienated Hispanics and women by taking extreme anti-immigrant and anti-woman positions in the primaries. Hispanics did not forget “self-deportation” when the general election came around. They may not have liked Obama, but they were terrified of Romney.

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give the jobs to QUALIFIED Americans FIRST, that should MANDATORY!

Their business, their right to hire whomever they please.

Please explain why and how these two statements are not contradictory.

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@cleo

Because, the companies should hire the best qualified person for the job and that should go to Americans first. They live and pay taxes, are citizens of course they should get first priority, if there are none OR all the necessary positions have been filled, I have no problem with a company from that if they decide to outsource.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

the companies should hire the best qualified person for the job and that should go to Americans first.

What if the best qualified person isn't American? What if the employer cannot afford to pay the inflated wage of a 'highly qualified' American? And how does that fit in with 'their right to hire whomever they please'? What if 'whomever they please' isn't American? People only have rights if they agree with you?

They live and pay taxes

Surely whoever gets the job will be paying taxes?

By your logic, adapted to Japan mutatis mutandis, I should be prohibited from working here and supporting my family until every single Japanese J-E translator has all the work they can handle?

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What if the best qualified person isn't American? What if the employer cannot afford to pay the inflated wage of a 'highly qualified' American? And how does that fit in with 'their right to hire whomever they please'? What if 'whomever they please' isn't American? People only have rights if they agree with you?

If every effort has been exhausted and they really couldn't find a qualified American, then I have NO problem with that point outsourcing raw talent, by all means. But the very least we can do for our unemployed citizens that are suffering in a stagnant economy, we owe at least that much to try.

Surely whoever gets the job will be paying taxes?

But I'm talking American. Born bred and raised

By your logic, adapted to Japan mutatis mutandis, I should be prohibited from working here and supporting my family until every single Japanese J-E translator has all the work they can handle?

But we're not talking about the Japanese.

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The Republicans want ObamaCare just as much as Obama. The "scandal" with Romney's overseas tax assets is nothing. The IRS does't care where your money is...they just want to know how much you have, etc...even if it's locked up tightly in a Swiss bank. If Romney really cheated on taxes it would be out (why do so many automatically equate offshore assets to tax evasion). He seems to be a decent guy even though he believes in magic underwear. But I'm disturbed by too many American politicians who literally believe in the Bible. I think Obama is a secret atheist, which I like. I also like Christie. He slams ObamaCare while giving Obama a big bear hug. But he is a big believer in a health mandate. He's such a big jolly guy. I would not mind him as president.

"Even in its current state, Romneycare would never work, especially for the entire country." Single payer is creeping up anyway.

I'm debating with a person who claims to have two close friends who are "fortune 500 CEOs (which employ around 50,000 people, on average) AND who employ no one but Americans stricly" - even implied he checked around the offices to see they are all American. (You search that quote in Google and nothing comes up, except corps. are hiring LESS Americans). It's impossible for a fortune 500 company to continue its status as such without hiring the best person for the job, anywhere. Sure if you are American it's convenient. But if you are really good and not American they will make you a great offer with the proper visa. A very effective P&G person who is Japanese became an high level manager in the America operations and they keep him there.

No, the search result would come up and it would show as "available" then to view it you pay for the subscription. The only recent news is the executive being arrested for bribery. One dude died in an aluminum dust explosion and the company compensated the family according to Chinese law, at least. People die or lose limbs in factories, even American ones. Welcome to America and please meet your new Taiwanese boss!

What you are saying is the democrats want to deport all the illegals...but at the same time give them visa for votes. You are saying two things that contradict each other. Which is it? Net immigration is reversing anyway. Sure there are still lots of illegals, but on the conservative side it's become less by itself as the world middle class grows.

"I have NO problem with that point outsourcing raw talent, by all means. But the very least we can do for our unemployed citizens that are suffering in a stagnant economy, we owe at least that much to try." That's extremely left. It sounds like the sorry "Buy America" campaign. While the smart person says "I buy what I want."

"But I'm talking American. Born bred and raised" How about one just born in the USA only? Like some Mexican woman plops one out and returns to Mexico.

"If every effort has been exhausted and they really couldn't find a qualified American, then I have NO problem with that point outsourcing raw talent," Of course but this is happening already. There are too many useless Americans so they go for H1B, etc. Your friend's corps. don't hire H1B visa holders at all? They really have a "we hire only Americans' policy? It sounds so Mississippi-ish.

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Well, you are to an extent right and there is nothing wrong with wanting to put national interests first for the greater good of the nation to get its people off its feet. And you don't need to educate me, but thanks for the kind gesture.

So you're a mercantilist and you don't believe the US should abide by free market principles, then.

Hmmm, did your country help to make it better? Did your country make a difference? Who else was there in full force besides the US? And you never mentioned the corruption that has been going on in Haiti for years and years. Where is your outrage? Why was it that there was so much corruption with a lot of the humanitarian services, some from the US and others from overseas. Don't start and don't get off on a tangent. If you want to believe that lie, you are more than welcome to do so.

Thank God my country didn't 'make it better' if what you think making it better is what the US did. And bringing up corruption in Haiti doesn't change the fact that the US took advantage of another country's enaction of neo-liberalism to uphold its own protectionism.

He is partially right, but mostly wrong. But I am for advocating giving jobs to qualified Americans first and it's a good thing.

How am I mostly wrong? Are you really not able to understand or are you (as I suspect) obfuscating and not facing up to the truth?

And oginome is right, the free market is not about putting national interests first, it's about unrestricted competition between privately-owned businesses.

Thank you cleo. Interesting how Republicans see free market economics as an enact science that will bring prosperity to everyone if followed correctly, but yet don't seem to want to follow these principles themselves.

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The Republicans want ObamaCare just as much as Obama.

No they don't, NOT even remotely close.

even implied he checked around the offices to see they are all American.

You're bloviating, I never such a thing.

What you are saying is the democrats want to deport all the illegals

No, the opposite

but at the same time give them visa for votes.

Exactly

"I have NO problem with that point outsourcing raw talent, by all means. But the very least we can do for our unemployed citizens that are suffering in a stagnant economy, we owe at least that much to try."

Yes

How about one just born in the USA only? Like some Mexican woman plops one out and returns to Mexico.

If the child is born in America, then it is an American, I have no problem with that. If you are talking about now and the present,then that child will be an adult 20 years later, let's hop the current economical situation will have changed by then.

@oginome

So you're a mercantilist and you don't believe the US should abide by free market principles, then

I never said that, I am just advocating of taking care of Americans first and even of it means to over step certain laws for a limited time, I am ok with that. Laws and rules often are modified or changed to accommodate certain situations.

Thank God my country didn't 'make it better' if what you think making it better is what the US did. And bringing up corruption in Haiti doesn't change the fact that the US took advantage of another country's enaction of neo-liberalism to uphold its own protectionism.

Oh, really? I see. Lol. So which country are you from again?

@oginome

How am I mostly wrong? Are you really not able to understand or are you (as I suspect) obfuscating and not facing up to the truth?

Well, you suspect wrong (as usual) apparently, you glossed over the point I was making. Ignoring the fact. But yes, I stand by that statement.

Interesting how Republicans see free market economics as an enact science that will bring prosperity to everyone if followed correctly, but yet don't seem to want to follow these principles themselves

What's even more interesting is how Democratic policies of robbing from people and implementing income redistribution hasn't helped one iota of Americans these last 5 years, go figure.

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I'm looking forward to existing law being applied to the current problem - finally.

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Many states now require passengers in automobiles to wear seatbelts for their own protection. Many others require anybody driving a car to have liability insurance. But neither the federal government nor any state requires all households to protect themselves from the potentially catastrophic costs of a serious accident or illness. Under the Heritage plan, there would be such a requirement.

Stuart Butler, director of domestic policy research at Heritage Foundation. Also, what Nixon, Dole, Gingrich, and Romney wanted. It's a Conservative idea. That is a direct quote back in 1989 about a mandate. Personally I don't care which party is in the WH under the mandate.

And a Democratic president that is pushing them out and deporting them.

Why if he wants their votes by giving them "free stuff". You are saying Obama wants to make these people citizens to the Dems can stay in power. Why push out is own potential voters?

I've been spelling FOXCONN wrong (two Ns). Here are article titles regarding bogus reports:

"This American Life' Retracts Mike Daisey's Apple Factory Story - NPR" "Mike Daisey apologizes for fabrications in Apple monologue - CBS ..." "Mike Daisey caught lying about Foxconn; incinerates credibility ..." ZDNET

And lots of others from some guy named Mike Daisey. I don't want to work there. I would not want to make Nike shoes either. It would suck. But someone does and the job conditions are within China's legal requirements.

"I know 2 people that are CEOs and they all employee Americans ONLY." "They are MY friends, I have been to their companies and have seen with my own eyes, the people that work there are Americans. "

So you have two close friends who are CEOs. You went to their companies and you SAW everyone are 100% pure bred Americans. That's about 50,000 people times two. That comes to 100,000 people. WOW! You are incredible to see so many people in two different places. So they have a "we hire only Americans" policy, right?

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Why if he wants their votes by giving them "free stuff". You are saying Obama wants to make these people citizens to the Dems can stay in power. Why push out is own potential voters?

True, Obama has deported many illegals, but still hundreds more enter every single day. And yes, Democrats wanting to make them citizens would mean thousands of ne registered Democratic voters, that is obvious.

"This American Life' Retracts Mike Daisey's Apple Factory Story - NPR" "Mike Daisey apologizes for fabrications in Apple monologue - CBS ..." "Mike Daisey caught lying about Foxconn; incinerates credibility ..." ZDNET And lots of others from some guy named Mike Daisey. I don't want to work there. I would not want to make Nike shoes either. It would suck. But someone does and the job conditions are within China's legal requirements.

That's one reporter, that doesn't change anything, the charges or the facts of the complaints.

So you have two close friends who are CEOs. You went to their companies and you SAW everyone are 100% pure bred Americans. That's about 50,000 people times two. That comes to 100,000 people. WOW! You are incredible to see so many people in two different places. So they have a "we hire only Americans" policy, right?

You're spinning the issue, I don't know how many times! I need to repeat myself. I said, THEIR policy was hiring US passport held workers, THEIR policy. No need to go back and forth on this, they can and have the right to decide as to who they want working in their company, I don't have a problem with that, that's their right.

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Obama has deported many illegals, but still hundreds more enter every single day.

Net illegal immigration has been at zero for the past few years.

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"but still hundreds more enter every single day" So even you have confirmed that illegals entering is way way way down. But I didn't know it was that low. WOW!!!!

FOXCONN vs clothing factories in Bangladesh. Which is worse? How can FOXCONN not get banned by the US govt. if they are so bad with abuses? I made many quotes and that website you provided has zero credible stories.

Your friend's companies won't hire non-Americans even if they have a valid work visa and highly skilled? What are the names of those fortune 500 companies? How many people did you see there out of 100,000 members?

"Democratic policies of robbing from people and implementing income redistribution hasn't helped one iota of Americans these last 5 years, go figure." "Read my Lips" Plus Clinton cut cap. gains tax. Also, taxes went up under Reagain. Also, Bush Jr. gave everyone 800 dollars. Never got a penny from a Democrat. By the way,did you know a health mandate is a Conservative idea. There is a quote from the Heritage Foundation about that. Also, Romney talks about a "mandate" being "conservative"

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Net illegal immigration has been at zero for the past few years

Talk to me when the population of illegals is cut from 12 million to half that or more and that argument might be somewhat meaningful.

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It's happening in transition. This person already established that. It used to be half a million a year coming according to Wikipedia in and now it's a lot less if you extrapolate from "hundreds more enter every single day" It doesn't just happen overnight. But it's happening. It will be "cut from 12 million to half that or more" very soon according to the new numbers and the argument will "be somewhat meaningful."

If it were still half a million per year it would be over a thousand every day.

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Your friend's companies won't hire non-Americans even if they have a valid work visa and highly skilled? What are the names of those fortune 500 companies?

That is totally irrelevant to the discussion, not going to bloviate. We've been through this, I already explained.

There is a quote from the Heritage Foundation about that. Also, Romney talks about a "mandate" being "conservative"

But the way the Democrats are implementing this, completely different from the idea of what the conservatives and Republicans had in mind.

If it were still half a million per year it would be over a thousand every day.

Problem is, there are still about a few million in California alone, even Obama has deported many, he was on record saying, he will NOT deport them anymore or as much and Oh, by the way, there is still the problem of the border NOT being shut down. If you REALLY want to stop the flow of illegals coming into the country, you need to stop the bleeding which means, building a fence.

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@nishicat: But it's happening. It will be "cut from 12 million to half that or more" very soon according to the new numbers and the argument will "be somewhat meaningful

America should wait to see if that actually happens before making any rash changes to it's immigration system. Maybe Romney was right, self deportation is the way to manage the problem.

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"But the way the Democrats are implementing this, completely different from the idea of what the conservatives and Republicans had in mind." What's the R. idea? A mandate is a mandate. I don't care who with.

But you didn't explain which two companies. And you didn't explain clearly. First, which two companies?

"If you REALLY want to stop the flow of illegals coming into the country, " But the most recent number you gave implies illegal immigration is really down under Obama. A record number. Do you know Reagan granted amnesty to millions of illegals? Why not just give them all amnesty like the Republican solution was? Then at that time the Republicans could get a lot more votes. Sounds like what the Republicans want not the Democrats since "Obama has deported many"

"Democratic policies of robbing from people" But I got a big check under Bush presidency. Also, lots of PELL grants under Reagan/Bush I. Also, Bush I ("Read my lips). And Clinton cut cap. gains tax. I didn't get a penny under the Dems.

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"If you REALLY want to stop the flow of illegals coming into the country, " But the most recent number you gave implies illegal immigration is really down under Obama. A record number.

As well as a record numbers of illegals are still entering the country. Which actually almost cancels out the illegals Obama has been kicking out and it's NOT continuous and Obama will stop doing this.

Do you know Reagan granted amnesty to millions of illegals?

Yeah, and you see how that worked out. NOT good at all!

Why not just give them all amnesty like the Republican solution was?

That was the Democratic solution. The Republican solution was to allow the illegals to obtain a valid drivers license and to work legally and pay taxes, but they won't be able to collect SS. If they want to become citizens, they would have to wait in line just like everyone else and follow the same procedure. At least they would be able to come out of the shadows and work legally without any fear of being deported. Fair enough.

I didn't get a penny under the Dems.

Neither do I and you NEVER will, but I do pay them a heck of a lot MORE taxes under them.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

"a record numbers of illegals" You mean the record DROP in illegals, right? Because "hundreds per day" as you said is a lot less than the previous established amount. Where did you get your information ("hundreds per day)? Because what you said was much lower than what was reported in Wikipedia. But if you are right then it means there is a less of a problem with illegals. Then why are you worried if it's going down? But why would Obama not give them the same thing Reagan did if you claim that Democrats want to open American borders for more free votes?

"license and to work legally and pay taxes, but they won't be able to collect SS" They can never become citizens? All 3 million of them? 3 million back in '86. What happens when they get old? I never heard of a person who was able to work legally in the USA and not be eligible for SS or Medicare if they work enough years. Is what you said really true? Really? If true then after they get old, instead of collecting SS they get kicked back to Mexico. That's what you are saying right?

"I do pay them a heck of a lot MORE taxes under them" How? I thought Obama extended the tax cuts? Plus do you work in the USA now? Why feel sorry for yourself. You are a multi-millionaire? Why are you so miserable since you have all that money? More money than you know what to do with? And you have very rich friends who are company CEOs (but can you tell me which companies? Is it a secret?). What's wrong? You are a millionaire?

"But the way the Democrats are implementing this, completely different from the idea of what the conservatives and Republicans had in mind." Can you explain what it is?

"That was the Democratic solution." Then why did Nixon want to do it, then?

What companies do your two CEO friends work for?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"a record numbers of illegals" You mean the record DROP in illegals, right?

No, I meant the illegals that are entering into the states, there is no drop. As a matter of fact as far as the drug mules that bring narcotics into the country as well as illegals is NOT dropping.

Because "hundreds per day" as you said is a lot less than the previous established amount. Where did you get your information ("hundreds per day)? Because what you said was much lower than what was reported in Wikipedia.

You're quoting Wikipedia????

But if you are right then it means there is a less of a problem with illegals.

Not so.

Then why are you worried if it's going down?

I'm not, and it hasn't.

But why would Obama not give them the same thing Reagan did if you claim that Democrats want to open American borders for more free votes?

"license and to work legally and pay taxes, but they won't be able to collect SS" They can never become citizens? All 3 million of them? 3 million back in '86. What happens when they get old?

They will have to wait and follow the exact same procedures as everyone else, even the ones that were given amnesty.

I never heard of a person who was able to work legally in the USA and not be eligible for SS or Medicare if they work enough years. Is what you said really true? Really? If true then after they get old, instead of collecting SS they get kicked back to Mexico. That's what you are saying right?

No, you said it. But regardless of the reason they came to the US, the law was broken, everyone has to wait their turn. NO exceptions.

That was the Democratic solution." Then why did Nixon want to do it, then?

Nixon wanted to do A LOT of things and looked what happened?

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No, the number you provided means there is a drop (from half a million per year/365). You already quoted that number. Now you can say you were wrong if you want. I can accept if you say that number was wrong.

"No, you said it. " No, you said they don't get social security. Then what happens when all 3 million of these people get old without SS. I never said that. I was confirming what you mean. No SS? Really? They just ship back to their countries or die on the American streets with no SS checks?

"They will have to wait and follow the exact same procedures as everyone else, even the ones that were given amnesty." What are you saying? They would get SS at retirement age? Yes or no.

" NO exceptions."

But Reagan disagrees by his actions of amnesty.

Not only Nixon, but Dole, Romney, Gingrich. And the Heritage foundation are on record for a health mandate.

What is the Republican solution for healthcare? What companies do your CEO friends work for?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

No, the number you provided means there is a drop (from half a million per year/365). You already quoted that number. Now you can say you were wrong if you want. I can accept if you say that number was wrong.

Hardly.

I never said, I was wrong, quite the opposite.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/us/immigrant-population-shows-signs-of-growth-estimates-show.html?_r=0

What are you saying? They would get SS at retirement age? Yes or no.

No, they shouldn't, not until they are sworn in US citizens.

No SS? Really? They just ship back to their countries or die on the American streets with no SS checks?

No,They have to wait in line and follow the same procedures like everyone else.

" NO exceptions."

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

"they won't be able to collect SS"

That was your quote. They can never get social security.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

They are not supposed to.

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What do you mean "not supposed to"? Like a bad child who should be spanked? I don't get your answer. But they can because of Reagan. It doesn't matter what you think. It's a done deal by Reagan. So the conservative solution is to just give them all visas. If you work in America legally you are eligible of SS just like Americans are. Reagan made this happen. So Reagan gave three million illegals lots of free stuff (see, like I said the Republican party is the "free stuff" party and the Dems are not since you said Obama is keeping them out more than Reagan ever did)

Are you a millionaire?

What companies do your two friends work for?

Do you know that Reagan and Nixon threatened the rights of gun owners more than any Democrat has? Do you know Clinton lowered taxes and Reagan/Bush ("read my lips") raised them? Aren't tax cuts under Obama still going or did he let them expire? Why do you complain since you are wealthy?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

What do you mean "not supposed to"? Like a bad child who should be spanked? I don't get your answer. But they can because of Reagan. It doesn't matter what you think.

It doesn't matter what you or I think, Reagan is dead and and the illegals as it stands and in this present time, they won't collect on SS. That deal is not on the table and the best they can do is work, file for citizenship like everyone, maybe in some cases join the military, leave with a honorable discharge and then have an easier chance at getting a citizenship, but they can do it a legal fashion ONLY.

So the conservative solution is to just give them all visas.

Not at all.

If you work in America legally you are eligible of SS just like Americans are.

IF you ARE an AMERICAN citizen! they broke the law regardless of the reason! there is no way they can collect on SS when other people that played by the rules can, should and are entitled to it, but NOT people that break the law, but under this new proposal, the illegals at least can come out the shadows, don't have to worry about getting deported, they can apply and get a drivers license, work legally, pay taxes and if they want to be citizens, follow the same procedures like ever other foreigner that follows the rules, seems fair to me.

Are you a millionaire?

I'm doing just fine, really.

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"they won't be able to collect SS". Why did you say this? It's obviously wrong. Many of these people are probably over 65 by now and getting SS. Can you clarify what you were getting at with that quote? They were made legal under Reagan so they would be able to collect SS.

"IF you ARE an AMERICAN citizen!" That's not true. Check sources such as AARP. You just have to work minimum 10 years and you can start collecting something at retirement age.

"hundreds more enter every single day" Wow, that quote you gave is a real low number. If that is really true it seems according to you the number of illegals entering is really low.

"I know 2 people that are CEOs and they all employee Americans ONLY." Can you tell us about these CEO friends of yours and what companies they work for. They are your friends. Why can't you be more specific? What? Are they working on secret projects and you can't say?

Did you know ObamaCare was a Republican idea?

Was Reagan a good president?

"I'm doing just fine, really." Can you be more specific. You are a TV producer?

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"they won't be able to collect SS". Why did you say this? It's obviously wrong.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/03/social-security-for-illegal-immigrants/

No, it's NOT.

Did you know ObamaCare was a Republican idea?

And the Democrats morphed it, forced it down the American people's The countries throat and from the launch has been a disaster, the Democrats managed to do all that by themselves. Only 8% are happy with it? Are you kidding me?nWhen the midterm election hits later this year, no one will be thinking about Republicans. The Democrats made this hole and they're desperately trying to get out of it.

Can you be more specific. You are a TV producer?

I worked in Television, I did quite well, I'm not complaining.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

No, illegal immigrants made legal from Reagan's amnesty.

Also, you can get SS if you work legally just like you can in Japan if you are non-Japanese. Where did you get that information. Under Reagan's amnesty did they NOT become legal workers? Why did you say those people could not collect SS?

It will be OK in the end. Remember I prefer single payer over ObamaCare anyway. But if Romney were president we would be in the same situation. But I would not blame the Republicans either. It shows ObamaCare was a Republican idea. Nixon wanted to do it. Reagan also made 3 millions illegals legal and they can collect SS.

Tell me about your CEO friends. Do they really exist?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Also, you can get SS if you work legally just like you can in Japan if you are non-Japanese. Where did you get that information. Under Reagan's amnesty did they NOT become legal workers? Why did you say those people could not collect SS?

I just showed you. Factcheck.org they do not collect, they cannot collect. Especially from now. If they do, they they are doing it illegally. Show me where it states they are getting SS. There is no way

It will be OK in the end. Remember I prefer single payer over ObamaCare anyway. But if Romney were president we would be in the same situation. But I would not blame the Republicans either. It shows ObamaCare was a Republican idea. Nixon wanted to do it. Reagan also made 3 millions illegals legal and they can collect SS.

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/p/petition-illegals.htm#.UvqamX8aySM

Here you go, once again. They cannot collect SS, if they do, then they are doing it illegally, pure and simple, otherwise, there is NO way! And in the future, the Republicans would block such a measure, so that it would be easier to track and make sure they don't collect, which they shouldn't.

Which the Democrats completely destroyed the healthcare system, it needed to be fixed, but a complete overhaul? Also, Romney would have never done what Obama did in the manner that he did that would've put the country is the debt and the shape that it is now. Romney has a history and a proven record when it comes to business and Obama, well as the last 5 years has shown that he is completely inept and doesn't know anything about business, let alone govern.

Tell me about your CEO friends. Do they really exist

Yes

0 ( +0 / -0 )

What companies do they work for? Do you know those stories about FOXCONN were actually false? You worked outside USA mostly? You didn't pay American tax legally?

You are talking about illegal residents. You are 100% wrong about that. I know of a Japanese person who worked in the USA for ten years and is not retired back in Japan. He is also getting SS checks on top of his Japan pension.

Answer from AARP:" A. Yes, you can, provided you're in the country legally. " Check that quote!! So the people made legal by Reagan (by the way, was he a good president?) can get SS when eligible. Why did you say they cannot get SS at all? That's completely false. You don't have to be an American citizen to get SS. Because of Reagan another 3 million illegals were made legal and could get SS after working the number of required years just like Americans. That's amnesty.

So you do acknowledge the Republicans invented Obamacare finally. Why did you deny that so many times then you changed your "facts"? I hear it's working by starting to control costs (the point of a mandate). California? Heard some good things there. But I'd be OK if Romney were president now and going forward with Obamacare. It doesn't matter to me. But you finally confirm that ObamaCare was a Republican idea. I wonder why you didn't want to confirm that before. Sure Romney with ObamaCare, maybe he could be more successfully politically with it. Like Reagan the way he led politically and in a positive fashion (letting 3 million become legal so they could collect SS legally)

How did Obama put the country in such high debt? Please be specific.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

You didn't pay American tax legally?

Yes, I do.

You are talking about illegal residents. You are 100% wrong about that.

No, I'm 100% right and all the data shows it. Unless you have a FAKE SS card, there is NO way, legally you can collect. Sure the Dems want a pathway to citizenship, but the Repubs aren't even going to go that route as of yet. So it's NIT going to happen. Need more proof, just say so and I'll show you again.

Answer from AARP:" A. Yes, you can, provided you're in the country legally.

AARP working with radical groups like La Raza??? I see where this is going. Of course, they will do anything be it illegal or what to advance the agenda. Another Liberal funded cause.

Check that quote!! So the people made legal by Reagan (by the way, was he a good president?) can get SS when eligible. Why did you say they cannot get SS at all?

Oh, I'm sorry, yes, they can, illegally, but they can. But that too, will change as they start to crack down.

That's completely false. You don't have to be an American citizen to get SS.

Sorry, but Yes, you do.

So you do acknowledge the Republicans invented Obamacare finally.

It's NOT about who invented it, it's about WHO screwed it up, and it wasn't the Republicans, so I will acknowledge that.

But you finally confirm that ObamaCare was a Republican idea. I wonder why you didn't want to confirm that before.

ROFL, because I NEVER did. What....

0 ( +0 / -0 )

When Reagan granted amnesty for 3 million what happened next? More importantly, what could they do? Could they work legally? They could stay in the USA but not work? Please be specific. I'm talking legal residents (including what Reagan did) not illegal ones. Yes, please show the sources. That last one mentioned illegal ones, not ones with work visas.

AARP just reported the information. They didn't make policy. Another quote from the State department (if they pay the payroll tax they get the benefit if they worked for 10 years): The Social Security program provides monthly cash benefits to qualified retired and disabled workers, their dependents, and survivors. Generally, a worker must have 10 years of Social Security-covered employment to be eligible for retirement benefits (less time is required for disability and survivor benefits). Most jobs in the United States are covered under Social Security. Noncitizens (aliens) who work in Social Security-covered employment must pay Social Security payroll taxes, including those who are in the United States working temporarily and those working in the United States without authorization Would you like me to get more sources that prove legal non-citizens can get ss? Because you have shown no source showing they can't. You can get SS if you are non-American.

Me: Did you know ObamaCare was a Republican idea? You: And the Democrats morphed it So you have acknowledged what I have been saying with "And..." about it being a Republican idea. It's in your text. Why are you arguing about it? You have acknowledged ObamaCare was a Republican idea.

So you make more than 90 thousand dollars yearly in Germany. You pay taxes for two countries.

Oh, here is from irs.gov: **Wages paid to resident aliens employed within the United States by an American or foreign employer are subject to Social Security/Medicare taxes under the same rules that apply to U.S. citizens.

legal aliens can get SS. I just gave you two sources. You have given me none. I win!! Also, I win by having you admit that ObamaCare was a Republican idea. How would Romney not have screwed it up?

What do you mean they (all three millions) can illegally get SS? Are you serious? Can you provide a source?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

That last one mentioned illegal ones, not ones with work visas.

That's who I was talking about. I wasn't talking about the LEGAL ones.

AARP just reported the information. They didn't make policy. Another quote from the State department (if they pay the payroll tax they get the benefit if they worked for 10 years): The Social Security program provides monthly cash benefits to qualified retired and disabled workers, their dependents, and survivors. Generally, a worker must have 10 years of Social Security-covered employment to be eligible for retirement benefits (less time is required for disability and survivor benefits). Most jobs in the United States are covered under Social Security. Noncitizens (aliens) who work in Social Security-covered employment must pay Social Security payroll taxes, including those who are in the United States working temporarily and those working in the United States without authorization Would you like me to get more sources that prove legal non-citizens can get ss? Because you have shown no source showing they can't. You can get SS if you are non-American.

You have acknowledged ObamaCare was a Republican idea.

And you also equally acknowledged that the Democrats and Obama completely destroyed our entire healthcare system, NOT revise it for the people that do NOT have ANY insurance. Why are you not mentioning that fact?

So you make more than 90 thousand dollars yearly in Germany. You pay taxes for two countries.

I NEVER discussed with you anything about my Salary, but YES, I do pay taxes in both countries.

Oh, here is from irs.gov: **Wages paid to resident aliens employed within the United States by an American or foreign employer are subject to Social Security/Medicare taxes under the same rules that apply to U.S. citizens.

Ok, And here once again, you get debunked.

CNSNews.com) - An audit report published this month by the inspector general for the Social Security Administration says that the Internal Revenue Service's reluctance to penalize employers who consistently file W-2s on which the Social Security Number and name do not match has "hindered" the SSA’s efforts to stop “unauthorized noncitizens” from using Social Security Numbers that are fake or belong to someone else -

We're talking about the same IRS that has been harassing and auditing conservatives ONLY under this President, the same IRS that has been misusing their powers to shake down and intimidate conservatives against the president.

But wait, there's more....

The employer with the highest percentage of no-match W-2s had filed them at a 98-percent rate.

The 100 employers who filed the most no-match W-2s and the 100 employers who the highest percentage of no-match W-2s together filed 2,477,546 no-match W-2s over three years. The auditors determined that 20 percent of the Social Security Numbers used on these W-2s were not real Social Security Numbers. In fact, 42,164 of the W-2s had Social Security Numbers that were all zeros. 358 were filed with 666 as the first three digits.

But, the audit determined, no-match W-2s were more likely to be filed using a real Social Security Number that belonged to someone other than the person on whose behalf the W-2 was filed. “SSA had assigned the remaining 2 million (80 percent) SSNs to someone else,” said the report. “About 380,000 of these belonged to young children, and about 258,000 belonged to deceased individuals.”

When the SSA is unable to identify the actual person on whose behalf a no-match W-2 was filed, the credit for the Social Security taxes paid on that W-2 is put into what SSA calls the “Earnings Suspense File” (ESF). In 2007, according to the report, SSA credited 11.0 million W-2s to the ESF, reflecting $90.7 billion in wages paid to people using an inaccuragte, fake or misused Social Security Number. In 2008, 9.5 million W-2s went into the ESF, reflecting $87.5 billion in wages. And, in 2009, 7.8 million W-2s went into the ESF, reflecting $73.4 billion in wages.

The report said that one reason the ESF is growing at such a rapid pace is because of the “intentional misuse” of Social Security Numbers by “unauthorized noncitizens.”

legal aliens can get SS. I just gave you two sources. You have given me none.

I just did for the 3rd time. If you are illegal and cheat the system, you might be able to collect on SS, but legally, NO. You've been misinformed AGAIN or you just don't want to accept reality about the system.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I'm wondering. What is your age? Are you having trouble reading the text I'm writing? Are your eyes OK?

"I just did for the 3rd time. If you are illegal and cheat the system, "

I keep saying "legal" and you keep saying "illegal". Do you understand? Legal workers in the USA can get SS if they pay into it enough. You don't have to be American. Why do you keep saying "illegal" when I keep saying "legal"? Are you reading OK? Is everything OK with you?

"We're talking about the same IRS that has been harassing and auditing conservatives ONLY" This has happened to liberal groups too.

I said from the beginning I don't like ObamaCare since it should be single payer anyway. I think ObamaCare (or RomneyCare) would be a transition to Single Payer. What exactly is wrong with America's healthcare? Can you be more specific?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Why do you keep saying "illegal"? I keep saying "legal". If you are non-American with a work visa you can get SS just like Americans. For illegal workers it is up to the authorities to prosecute them if they abuse the system. When Reagan gave those 3 million amnesty they got real ss numbers. If they played the game straight then it's no one's business but theirs. There is fraud everywhere but I'm not talking about that.

What the IRS did also happened to other political groups. Nothing new and it's in the past (like FOXCONN).

"destroyed our entire healthcare system" Can you be more specific? It should be single payer anyway. That's conservative since that's where healthcare is headed anyway. It is not a real mandate which it should be. Medicare is a real mandate since it's unavoidable if you are working regularly.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Why do you keep saying "illegal"? I keep saying "legal".

I know that, I'm NOT talking about legal aliens.

If you are non-American with a work visa you can get SS just like Americans. For illegal workers it is up to the authorities to prosecute them if they abuse the system. When Reagan gave those 3 million amnesty they got real ss numbers. If they played the game straight then it's no one's business but theirs. There is fraud everywhere but I'm not talking about that.

BS, not it's not! When Reagan granted those 3 million amnesty! it's was under the condition to seal the border where the Dems received funding and it never happened. Republicans are not going through that again, they will push for legislation that will allow them to obtain a drivers license and to work legally, pay back on taxes that they owe and current taxes and once all the criteries been met they can apply for a green card and later full citizenship, they have to wait just like everyone else. but that's it.

What the IRS did also happened to other political groups. Nothing new and it's in the past (like FOXCONN).

Sorry, but as we speak the IRS are targeting conservatives now and NO it did NOT happen to other political groups as much as it has towards conservatives.

"destroyed our entire healthcare system" Can you be more specific? It should be single payer anyway. That's conservative since that's where healthcare is headed anyway.

With 8% of the population NOT liking the system at all, and it's NOT going to change too much. Obamacare in its present from with the way it's going won't last or it needs to be seriously modified.

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ME: "They would get SS at retirement age? Yes or no."

YOU: "No, they shouldn't, not until they are sworn in US citizens."

Why did you say that? That is wrong. You don't have to be a citizen to get SS benefits. You have to work legally for 10 years as long as you have a valid working permit.

Yes, it did happen to other political groups. No one really cares about that story now. Do you know when Clinton was running for pres. the Bush Sr. presidency had the government checking his mom's passport records for "anti-American" activities? The point is there are all these non-story stories. Did anyone get fired over the IRS thing? If so was it connected to the WH somehow? Did anyone get arrested? Was anyone "watergated?" Not so much? Then who cares? I don't pay attention to these stupid conspiracy stories about hunting liberals...or anyone.

Why do you say that the Democrats want all these illegals made legal when Reagan made millions of them legal for millions of more votes. He was the man on watch when this amnesty happened.

I heard in Cali. the ObamaCare numbers are making superior numbers. Yes, I don't like Obamacare and things will be more stable with Single payer. Good point. I think RomneyCare is a transition to single payer anyway. Two things: They should have kept the public option and up drs' comp for medicaid. Medicaid has been growing steadily with both parties in the WH. It's not connected to politics.

92% of the population liking the system does not sound bad.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Why did you say that? That is wrong. You don't have to be a citizen to get SS benefits.

No, it's not. If you want to do it illegally, then you are right.

Yes, it did happen to other political groups.

That is bogus, sorry, it didn't happen not even close to liberals as towards conservatives.

No one really cares about that story now.

Liberals like you don't, I understand. But of course a lot of people care, it's still ongoing. From politicians to news anchors to conservative film celebs such as John Voight and Gary Sinise are being targeted by the IRS.

The point is there are all these non-story stories.

Really? So why did the head of IRS: Lois Learner take the 5th when she was asked to testify about her agency spying on conservatives. sorry, you don't take the 5th unless you sure that there is a possibility that you could be incriminated of wrong doing.

But wait, there's more....

Several congressional committees also are investigating the IRS, and the House Ways and Means Committee said scrutiny has expanded to the surveillance program, in which dozens of organizations — most of them conservative-leaning — were monitored even after they were approved. “Four months after Lois Lerner’s apology for targeting, there are many questions that are still outstanding. And frankly, we still don’t have all the answers that we need,” said Rep. Charles W. Boustany Jr., Louisiana Republican and chairman of the Ways and Means oversight subcommittee.

In May, the IRS acknowledged subjecting conservative groups to intrusive scrutiny and delaying applications for far too long before approving them. Some applications are still awaiting approval after three years.

The numbers show, however, that more conservative groups were subject to scrutiny, both in initial applications and in the ongoing surveillance program. Investigators said they still have to look through hundreds of thousands of pages of email and documents, though at this point Ms. Lerner, who ran the exempt organizations division, remains a chief focus of the inquiries. She is on paid administrative leave but has not resigned. Her attorney didn’t return a message seeking comment on the latest questions. Ms. Lerner declined to testify to Congress this year, citing her right against self-incrimination, though she did give a brief statement declaring her innocence.

I wonder why?

http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/18/irs-spied-on-tea-party-after-granting-tax-exempt-s/?page=all

Did anyone get fired over the IRS thing? If so was it connected to the WH somehow? Did anyone get arrested? Was anyone "watergated?" Not so much? Then who cares? I don't pay attention to these stupid conspiracy stories about hunting liberals...or anyone.

A lot of people care, especially the people that are targeted. As long as this chaotic admin. Is in office and Eric Holder is being backed by the socialist Obama, nothing will change!

Why do you say that the Democrats want all these illegals made legal when Reagan made millions of them legal for millions of more votes. He was the man on watch when this amnesty happened.

So you think since Reagan was hoodwinked into believing giving these people amnesty and the promise with fed funding that the Dems promised to close off the border, which never happened and still as porous as it is, illegals are coming in by the hundreds on a daily basis regardless of how many Obama has sent back. Republicans are NOT stupid, they are NOT going to make that same mistake as to giving the latest wave of immigrants a path to citizenship. If they want that they have to do it legally, they are NOT going to throw the Democrats that bone. The best they will do is offer them a chance to work and to obtain a drivers license, follow the same procedures like everyone else and wait in line, commit no crimes, pay back all back taxes and then they can begin the process of being a legal citizen.

I heard in Cali. the ObamaCare numbers are making superior numbers.

I'm from California, please don't lie like that. That is simply NOT true, maybe for the poor, but for the mass majority, NO!

About 70 percent of California’s 104,000 doctors are reportedly planning to stay out of the state’s health insurance exchange, a move that could have significant impact on implementation of the Affordable Care Act.

http://rt.com/usa/california-doctors-boycott-obamacare-959/

92% of the population liking the system does not sound bad.

Wrong again. What source was that?

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/US-AP-Poll-Health/2014/01/27/id/549127

Fairs worse for doctors.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2012/07/09/about_that_83_percent_of_doctors_hate_obamacare_so_much_they_might_quit_poll.html

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I gave you three sources that say you don't have to be American to get SS. Two from

American government websites and one from the AARP. You have only provided sources

that say [illegals] cannot get SS. You have not provided any sources that say legal

non Americans with work permits cannot get ss.

All that information in FEB. 13, 2014 - 06:17AM JST you posted you were just talking

ss fraud. So what? That can happen even with Americans if someone buries their

mother in the backyard and pretends they are alive for their ss checks. Again, legal

non-Americans with work permits can get ss. Please provide a source that directly

says otherwise.

"the condition to seal the border"

It doesn't work that way. You cannot seal the border. Most don't become illegal from

simply crossing the border anyway. Here is a quote:

** "when Congress finally did start funding border security, there were some

unintended consequences. As Princeton sociologist Douglas Massey has explained

(pdf), the beefed-up Border Patrol ended up driving immigrants away from their

traditional crossing spots near El Paso and San Diego. Unauthorized immigrants began

moving to all parts of the country, rather than staying concentrated in California,

Texas and Illinois. (Another effect: The number of border-crossing deaths rose

dramatically.)" **

So they did do it but it would not have made a real difference anyways. Again, it

happened on Reagan's watch. And I just quoted information that sealing the borders

cannot work like it's some science fiction zombie movie (they did try, however and

even today's tech cannot help). They just dangerously find a way go go over anyway.

The new middle class lifestyle is the most effective and conservative way. More want

to stay in Mexico.

Coming in by the hundreds is a low number. What are you complaining about? That's a

low number you are stating.

"back all back taxes" Are you sure? It was that difficult? What does that article say?

**How many immigrants took advantage of amnesty? The law awarded green cards to

about 2.7 million immigrants, all told — including about 1 million farm workers. It

was the largest legalization program in U.S. history.**

2.7 million!!! Was it really that challenging? Thanks Reagan!!! You are my free

ride! So with their green cards they enjoyed virtually every right US citizens had

except voting. But they still could get SS legitimately. People with green cards can

get SS. Non US citizens with work permits can get SS. Please show me a source that

says they can't....or "shouldn't". Also, are you sure they had to pay back taxes?

Really?

The doctors are just whining. Yes, they might be squeezed but so is everyone else in

every industry. Yes, look at the news as more and more people are signing up. What's

wrong with getting health insurance? This problem is temporary and how would

RomenyCare be different? Again, Romney would be doing the same thing.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I gave you three sources that say you don't have to be American to get SS. Two from American government websites and one from the AARP. You have only provided sources that say [illegals] cannot get SS. You have not provided any sources that say legal non Americans with work permits cannot get ss.

Why would I want to quote from a progressive liberal source like the AARP, that have supporters like Belafonte and LaRaza??? Also, the conversation was about illegals, again, NOT illegals, that was NEVER the issue. I showed you documents as to how the illegals that are cashing in on SS are cheating the system, it seems like everyone is wrong, but you know better than everyone else.

Please provide a source that directly says otherwise. "the condition to seal the border" It doesn't work that way. You cannot seal the border.

Why not. You don't seal the border, you are not a sovereign nation, simple as that.

If they would put the national guard on the border, build the wall. There would be far, far less, illegals entering the border.

As the nation's attention turns back to the fractured debate over immigration, it might be helpful to remember that in 1986, Ronald Reagan signed a sweeping immigration reform bill into law. It was sold as a crackdown: There would be tighter security at the Mexican border, and employers would face strict penalties for hiring undocumented workers.

**These days, Republicans are also calling for existing laws to be toughened up, which Reagan would have agreed with, Robinson says. In fact, Robinson says, he would have been so upset at the federal government's failure to make good on the 1986 reform that he would have demanded for that law to be fixed first before instituting a new overhaul.

"He, too, would have been right there in saying, 'Fix the borders first.' " Where he would have differed, Robinson says, is his welcoming attitude toward immigrants.**

There you go being wrong again.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128303672

The new middle class lifestyle is the most effective and conservative way. More want to stay in Mexico.

About 11.7 million immigrants are living in the United States illegally, a population that has not varied much over the last three years but may recently be increasing again, according to new estimates published Monday by the Pew Research Center Hispanic Trends Project.

Then let's hope they go back.

Coming in by the hundreds is a low number. What are you complaining about? >That's a low number you are stating.

Not true, once again...as usual.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/us/immigrant-population-shows-signs-of-growth-estimates-show.html

And this time around that won't happen, the Republicans will never vote or stand foe legalization unless, the illegals go through the proper channels like everyone else.

Also, are you sure they had to pay back taxes? Really?

Yes.

The doctors are just whining. Yes, they might be squeezed but so is everyone else >in every industry.

Yeah, so for you it doesn't matter if the tax payer pays for illegals and it comes out of there pockets that the premiums skyrocket and the doctors don't get reimbursed, they should just work for free. Right? Once again, liberal logic at its worst.

Yes, look at the news as more and more people are signing up. What's wrong with getting health insurance?

Nothing for those Americans that don't have it, but not for the people that already have adequate insurance. 8% is not a lot, not even a smidgen

Remember also that as many as 100 million previously insured Americans will endure higher premiums—and higher taxes—under Obamacare. The political constituency of the newly insured could be dwarfed by the political constituency of those harmed by the law. If that turns out to be the case, President Obama’s signature legislation may not be long for this world.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/01/18/coverage-expansion-fail-less-than-one-third-of-obamacare-exchange-enrollees-were-previously-uninsured/

This was from last month, again, want more proof?

This problem is temporary and how would RomenyCare be different? Again, Romney would be doing the same thing.

Temporary, until it's repealed or dramatically ratified. And No, he wouldn't. He, unlike Obama knows the system would never work on a massive scale. But that's why he was a great business man, he has that kind of insight.

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Quotes came from IRS.GOV and State Department on their government websites -- go ahead and check and argue with them. Why are you arguing with me? Non-American work permit holders can pay into the SS system and get benefits just like Americans. The AARP didn't make the fact, they just reported it. I sourced quotes from two American government organizations -- direct from their websites. Now please give me reliable source that say the opposite. I bet my life you can't.

Do you believe Obama was born in Zimbabwe like many other do?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Why are you arguing with me?

I'm not arguing with you, I'm trying to help you understand how wrong you are.

I bet my life you can't.

I already did. See earlier posts and read them carefully. Just try it instead of glossing over it.

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ira.gov: Wages paid to resident aliens employed within the United States by an American or foreign employer are subject to Social Security/Medicare taxes under the same rules that apply to U.S. citizens.

That is from an official American govt. website. They pay in and get money out just like US citizens.

Do you believe Obama was born in Zimbabwe like many others do?

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ira.gov: Wages paid to resident aliens employed within the United States by an American or foreign employer are subject to Social Security/Medicare taxes under the same rules that apply to U.S. citizens.

Wrong again.

http://t.answers.com/answers/#!/entry/what-welfare-benefits-do-illegal-immigrants-receive,502bac7d7af68a84dc89b199

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/03/social-security-for-illegal-immigrants/

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Those sources mention illegal immigrants, not legal ones. I will quote one more time from irs.gov simple:

Wages paid to resident aliens employed within the United States by an American or foreign employer are subject to Social Security/Medicare taxes under the same rules that apply to U.S. citizens.

So because of Reagan 2.7 million people got green cards and could enter the SS system. Those 2.7M were made legal.

You keep talking about ss fraud where they bury granny in the back yard and fraudulently continue to receive and cash her ss checks. that's a crime and a different story.

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Those sources mention illegal immigrants, not legal ones. I will quote one more time from irs.gov simple:

I keep telling you, I'm NOT talking about the legal immigrants, I don't have a problem with LEGAL immigrants. I have a problem with ILLEGAL immigrants, so we don't need to discuss about the LEGAL ones.

So because of Reagan 2.7 million people got green cards and could enter the SS system. Those 2.7M were made legal.

Which Reagan realized he got hoodwinked into thinking the fed gov. And Dems would close off the border, it didn't happen, not even close.

And the Republicans are NOT about to let that happen again.

You keep talking about ss fraud where they bury granny in the back yard and fraudulently continue to receive and cash her ss checks. that's a crime and a different story.

I never said, NO such thing, your bloviating now.

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Then why are you arguing with my quote from the IRS's website:

"Wages paid to resident aliens employed within the United States by an American or foreign employer are subject to Social Security/Medicare taxes under the same rules that apply to U.S. citizens."

I didn't make the policy.

Are you really arguing with that quote? It's from the IRS. Search that exact quote and the top site is an irs.gov one. Do you agree or disagree that non-US people with work permits can enter the SS system?

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Then why are you arguing with my quote from the IRS's website:

I wasn't, that in your imagination for some reason.

I didn't make the policy.

I wasn't talking about that.

Are you really arguing with that quote?

I was talking about illegals

Do you agree or disagree that non-US people with work permits can enter the SS system?

Disagree

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Did the IRS make a mistake on their website? Why do you think they say that?

"Wages paid to resident aliens employed within the United States by an American or foreign employer are subject to Social Security/Medicare taxes under the same rules that apply to U.S. citizens."

The above is the exact and simple quote. Why do you disagree that legal non-Americans can enter the SS system? Do you agree or disagree with the quote from the IRS's website.

Your source says this: "Current law allows illegal immigrants to get such credit – but only when and if they become legal." According to your source they can get back credit if they worked illegally but become legal. Thanks, interesting info!!

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bass4funkFeb. 10, 2014 - 07:32AM JST Problem is, there are still about a few million in California alone, even Obama has deported many, he was on record saying, he will NOT deport them anymore or as much and Oh, by the way, there is still the problem of the border NOT being shut down. If you REALLY want to stop the flow of illegals coming into the country, you need to stop the bleeding which means, building a fence.

It's not that easy. Do you really understand the impact of illegal workers in the U.S. or how the large agricultural industries are run in U.S. and the what the benefit of illegal workers provide for the citizens of U.S.? Most of the agriculture industries are located in Central Valley, California, Southern Arizona and Texas are mostly of Mexican illegal migrant workers which accounts for 95 percent of workers and they supply produce products to the entire U.S. Up to now, and still, the U.S. immigration looks at otherway and not enforce the law. Do you see American citizens applying for these jobs? If they deport all these illegal farm workers, who will replace these jobs? There will be a consequences on produce products in the U.S., such as shortage and possibly doubling the price overnight. Also, the large deportation might cause instability in Mexican economics and govenment.

If the U.S. govenment really want to put pressure on illegal immigrants who are taking job away from American workers who are living and working legally, all they have to do is to put pressure on the employers. If the employers hires anybody, they have to have verified proof of citizenship and permanent status ID card in their company file. At anytime, Feds can check randomly on any company and if they request, they have to show to the Feds copy of legal document of all of their employees. If an Employer cannot come up the proper document, the Feds can fine heavily on first and second offense, and on third offense, Feds have option to close the business. This will wake them up.

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The above is the exact and simple quote. Why do you disagree that legal non-Americans can enter the SS system? Do >

Because we're talking about illegal, NOT legal, so they can't.

These are the only circumstances under which illegal immigrants can lawfully receive government assistance. Notably absent from this list is any type of Social Security benefits. To repeat: Illegal immigrants cannot legally receive Social Security benefits, and Congress isn’t about to vote on legislation that would change that.

"You are most certainly welcome."

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" Romney would have never done what Obama did in the manner that he did "

Can you be more specific?

Also, do you really believe no non-Americans (0%) can enter the SS system in anyway...whatsoever?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Can you be more specific?

Romney knew that his idea of a healthcare system for the entire country that means a system that can be paid for and handled and used to care for 340 million Would have been completly impossible.

Also, do you really believe no non-Americans (0%) can enter the SS system in anyway...whatsoever?

If they are "legal", then, yes.

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Makes a good point for Single Payer which it's headed that way anyway with public healthcare numbers going up.

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I know that's what you liberals want, but with Obamacare being popular in the single digit and while more people Will lose their employee insurance, not only will the Conservatives get the Semate back, and with public anger rising, Obama will have to sit down wîth Republicans to help save his biggest legacy. They will probably have to srip and revise it, if the president wants protect his legacy. And given the current climate of how unpopular it is, that might prove a serious challenge.

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In a June 2007 op-ed in the Des Moines Register, Gingrich wrote, “Personal responsibility extends to the purchase of health insurance. Citizens should not be able to cheat their neighbors by not buying insurance, particularly when they can afford it, and expect others to pay for their care when they need it.” An “individual mandate,” he added, should be applied “when the larger health-care system has been fundamentally changed.”

Sorry, the conservatives want a Mandate. This is a conservative idea. Newt would be doing the same thing if he were president. You are just negative about it because a black person is president.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Here we go and once again, wrong....

In the campaign video released today, Gingrich insists: “I am completely opposed to the Obamacare mandate on individuals. I fought it for two and a half years at the Center for Health Transformation.

“You can see all the things we did to stop it at HealthTransformation.net. I am for the repeal of Obamacare. I’m against any effort to impose a federal mandate on anyone, because it is fundamentally wrong, and I believe, unconstitutional.”

Now having debunked that....again, I will say this, Newt, like most politicians will say anything in order to appease the masses and get the most votes.

And a review of Gingrich’s statements, articles, and websites shows that, contrary to the tenor of his video, he has not been consistently forceful in his criticism of Obama’s insurance mandate.

I know where you got the article from, you are dishonest and cherry picked what he said. Shame on you. I know for a fact, Gingrich like most Republicans would love nothing more than to repeal Obamacare and now you know why so many establish Republicans call him a flip flopper.

Sorry, the conservatives want a Mandate. This is a conservative idea. Newt would be doing the same thing if he were president. You are just negative about it because a black person is president.

Also, conservatives NEVER believe that it's the governments job to provide a healthcare system for the entire country. It's an individuals responsibility, the system definitely needs to be in many areas overhauled, but it is NOT a fundamental right. And particularly the way Obama is doing it makes it that much worse. Please stop lying like that. Why you liberals keep doing that is beyond me.

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"Also, conservatives NEVER believe that it's the governments job to provide a healthcare system for the entire country."

Then it's not a mandate. Both political parties want a mandate. Why would Gingrich mention this in the first place. A mandate is something where you have to get it. There is no choice. Gingrich said "mandate". Same with Romney. To me it's simple and black and white.

You said the Republicans would do something different. What, exactly?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Why would Gingrich mention this in the first place.

Because he was campaigning for the highest office in the country and as such, most politicians will say ANYTHING to get elected. Obama promised to have THE most transparent administration ever and to reach across the aisle and put bipartisanship aside...it's been almost 6 years and we haven't seen anything remotely close to that promise, in fact, quite the opposite.

A mandate is something where you have to get it. There is no choice. Gingrich said "mandate". Same with Romney. To me it's simple and black and white.

Well that's another lie.

You said the Republicans would do something different. What, exactly?

Repeal Obamacare first....

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"Because he was campaigning for the highest office in the country and as such, most politicians will say ANYTHING to get elected"

No, he was telling the truth about the need for a mandate. So was Romney, and Nixon. Dole as well. Of course all politicians lie. But Gingrich lies when he says there should be no mandate. Sorry, he's on record so if he were president we would still be in the current transition.

Should there be a mandate for car insurance but NO mandate for health insurance?

"Repeal Obamacare first...."

Then what?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

No, he was telling the truth about the need for a mandate.

I doubt it seriously. If he did, he wouldn't have reneged on his quote, he would've stuck by them, if so passionately believed in it. Or he's just the worst liar.

So was Romney, and Nixon. Dole as well. Of course all politicians lie. But Gingrich lies when he says there should be no mandate.

Bob Dole...are you serious?!

Again, you and don't know what's in his heart, so we can't definitively say that, but what we can say for certainty is that, he's a flip flopper as most politicians are and a big one, one that the Republicans couldn't trust and because of his stance couldn't make it to the White House. And If he was was really right, bottom line, he wouldn't have changed his statement.

Sorry, he's on record so if he were president we would still be in the current transition.

That's why he's not president, if most conservatives believed in that, he would've won, but he didn't, not to mention the other baggage he had.

Should there be a mandate for car insurance but NO mandate for health insurance?

You're comparing apples and durians now.

Then what?

There are a few proposals, nothing yet set in stone, a few ideas floating, but the man thing is to find an AFFORDABLE system that won't bankrupt the nation. This is one idea.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/01/27/republicans-have-an-obamacare-replacement-economists-will-love-it-real-people-wont/

I'm more for this. I'm open to other ideas, but we still have 3 years and the Repubs still have time to come up with a more simpler and less cost effective healthcare.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The IRS scandal is over. How about Chris Chrisite's "bridge-gate"?

"Both Obamacare and the replacement plan include tax subsidies" I thought you don't want the government to spend any money on this. I thought you don't like "Socialism"

"Also, conservatives NEVER believe that it's the governments job to provide a healthcare system for the entire country." So then Medicare should be eliminated.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

For now, seems like the scandal is on hold, until they can get Lois Lerner to talk, since she refused to testify about the IRS spying on conservatives.

"Both Obamacare and the replacement plan include tax subsidies" I thought you don't want the government to spend any money on this. I thought you don't like "Socialism"

I don't of course not, you will always have government to provide some or limited assistance to people, but the founding fathers NEVER had envisioned government to take over everything which is what we are seeing. And the result of that are a series of disasters, most infamously Obamacare, which grows more and more unpopular each day and Obama, while I don't think he's a socialist, I do believe he has a lot of socialist deep rooted beliefs, which are scary and doesn't belong in this country.

"Also, conservatives NEVER believe that it's the governments job to provide a healthcare system for the entire country." So then Medicare should be eliminated.

I believe it should be greatly modified to be less of a burden to the tax payer.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"I believe it should be greatly modified to be less of a burden to the tax payer." Me too, with single payer. What's your idea?

So the founding fathers would agree on a Mandate for car insurance but not health insurance? How do you figure?

"scandal is on hold" ..and will be...for ever...and ever...and ever. Like when Obama was really born in Zimbabwe. There are so many unanswered questions about that. How about Chris Christie's Bridge-gate scandal?

"while I don't think he's a socialist" But you said so in an earlier comment. What gives?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"I believe it should be greatly modified to be less of a burden to the tax payer." Me too, with single payer. What's your idea?

No, single payer. It should be all privatized.

So the founding fathers would agree on a Mandate for car insurance but not health insurance? How do you figure?

They wouldn't agree. That was the sole purpose of leaving England to be free of the monarchy and in this case, that would be Obama, well he Acts like the anointed one. So If you go by that, then it should be a right to give everybody a home, No, let's NOT stop just there, why not give the people other people's money and how about, it's every persons right to enslave people, but Blacks back in chains, so if you go by that, you can make an argument for everything, the government is NOT designed to take care of 340 million plus people, it's already doing bad now, it didn't past the lit mist test. Obamacare turned out to be a flop, the majority of Americans don't want it, poll after poll shows it, the poor like it, but to see how some people's premiums rise anywhere from 20 to 200% is mind blowing.

"scandal is on hold" ..and will be...for ever...and ever...and ever.

And here we go, wrong once again....

http://www.examiner.com/article/irs-progressives-still-targeting-conservatives

http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/24/irs-accused-targeting-hollywood-conservatives/

"while I don't think he's a socialist" But you said so in an earlier comment. What gives?

I said, I believe he has radical socialist ideas and is increasingly trying to implement them, which tend to be very socialist , but only he knows and maybe "Reid, Pelosi" if he is a socialist, I'm not sure. I don't think he's as crazy as "Bernie Sanders, "but still, nonetheless.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Why is mandating car insurance NOT constitutional? Have you ever met any of the founding fathers?

"No, single payer. It should be all privatized." So you are saying we should privatize Medicare.

Quote from the source you gave: ("the [Republican]replacement plan include tax subsidies") What you say and the quote from the article you cited don't agree.

That happening is a few years ago. All in the past.

How about Chris Christie and Bridge-gate? Some say he was targeting liberals.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Why is mandating car insurance NOT constitutional?

Then there should also be a mandate to put blacks in chains to put them in a servitude of slavery. I mean, why not?

So you are saying we should privatize Medicare.

Yes

Quote from the source you gave: ("the [Republican]replacement plan include tax subsidies") What you say and the quote from the article you cited don't agree.

Why is it, you liberals want to cherry pick the quotes you personally like, but skip on the main point and facts?

Well, NO, it's not past, because we are still inquiring about it.

How about Chris Christie and Bridge-gate? Some say he was targeting liberals.

There you go once again comparing apples and Durians. Nothing has been proven yet, so far, it's just pure speculation and so you want to equate one mans action in this alledgelly scandal and compare it to what the IRS is doing to conservatives regardless if they are in the private sector, activists, actors and musicians all over the country and for what? By far this president is one of THE worst presidents of our time, surpassing even Carter.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"Then there should also be a mandate to put blacks in chains to put them in a servitude of slavery" You really believe that?

What happens if a person who refuses to get insurance also gets sick. You think they should die, right?

"Nothing has been proven yet, so far" Exactly, just like the IRS thing. Some heads my roll but nothing connected to the (literally) big man. So nothing is connected to Obama either. You keep talking about old stories.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"Then there should also be a mandate to put blacks in chains to put them in a servitude of slavery" You really believe that?

if you put it in that type of context. Then, yes.

What happens if a person who refuses to get insurance also gets sick. You think they should die, right?

No, but there is NO way the current system can provide for 350 million effectively for every American.

"Nothing has been proven yet, so far" Exactly, just like the IRS thing

It's funny how you like to gloss over and continuously cherry pick what you want. I provided you with 2 articles that conservatives are being unfairly and improperly targeted from the IRS because they are conservative. Hey, keep ignoring the pink elephant in the room, it's still there.

Some heads my roll but nothing connected to the (literally) big man.

So far, but if it is proven that Obama was in ANY way shape or form involved...bye, bye!

You keep talking about old stories.

No, the last 2 articles are recent current, if you want, I'll provide the dates, unless you think "one month" is old.

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Then who pays for his treatment? You don't want govt. involvement. Then who pays? Conservatives want everything private so a private hospital should have the right to turn away a patient who cannot pay just like Red Lobster can turn away a customer who they know cannot pay for his lobster dinner. Right? Rush Limbaugh even said healthcare is not a right and you just said the same thing. So don't you think just turning non-paying patients is the solution?

Reported now but happened a few years ago. New news on something old. But they refer to the IRS as "nazi-like". Is that article really credible? Are the IRS really Nazis? Did they kill Jews?

"if you put it in that type of context. Then, yes." Are you saying black people should have remained slaves?

"there is NO way the current system can provide for 350 million effectively for every American." No, that is not the point of a mandate. Mandate means that people all pay their fair share. As Newt Gingrich said:

“Personal responsibility extends to the purchase of health insurance. Citizens should not be able to cheat their neighbors by not buying insurance, particularly when they can afford it, and expect others to pay for their care when they need it.” An “individual mandate,” he added, should be applied “when the larger health-care system has been fundamentally changed.” (Gingrich)

You don't just get free healthcare. So the conservatives want a mandate just like the liberals. It was voted in. It's all about personal "responsibility" and that's being "conservative" so there is no "freeloading".

Sorry, conservatives want the same thing pretty much Obama wants. I don't know why you are arguing with me.

Where do you think Obama was born?

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Then who pays for his treatment? You don't want govt. involvement. Then who pays? Conservatives want everything private so a private hospital should have the right to turn away a patient who cannot pay just like Red Lobster can turn away a customer who they know cannot pay for his lobster dinner. Right? Rush Limbaugh even said healthcare is not a right and you just said the same thing. So don't you think just turning non-paying patients is the solution?

First of all, Red Lobster has nothing to do with the conversation. Second, if you can't afford lobster, why did you order it in the first place? If you want to eat it save your money until you can afford it. You should buy what you can afford, if not, wait . I don't believe patients should ever be turned a way and my cousin is a doctor and contrary to what liberals want you to believe, MOST hospitals won't turn you away. If you're out there bleeding or hurt, they will stitch you up, basic emergency care is provided. You guys crack me up, you guys want single payers, you want the rich to pay, you NEED young people at least about 7 million to sign up, which never happened and the top 1% won't be able to cover the entire cost. But the top 1% can do what most people can't and that's relocate at their leisure! which many of them have and are doing as we speak. So the poor get their healthcare and the middle class get stuck with rising high premiums to compensate for the lack of young people wanting to buy this crap! I feel really sorry for those people. Many young people rather pay the penalty than sign up for this exchange. It is a failure, the majority of people don't like it, that's why NO Republican supported it, they knew it was bad legislation from the start, but the Dems passed it without a single Republican vote and here we are! The system needs a overhaul, but a complete change??

Reported now but happened a few years ago. New news on something old. But they refer to the IRS as "nazi-like". Is that article really credible? Are the IRS really Nazis? Did they kill Jews?

The Nazis didn't just murder Jews, they also terrorized and spyd on people, harassing people, asking celebrity and politician conservatives for donors list, phone tapping, trying to freeze their accounts, using threatening tactics. If it were everyone, maybe....but it is happening to 99% conservatives and the tactics they employ are Nazi like.

" Are you saying black people should have remained slaves?

Just like you libs believe healthcare is a constitutional right, then as slavery once was, it too, was for many people at its time seen as a constitutional right. So, slavery should be reinstated then.

“Personal responsibility extends to the purchase of health insurance. Citizens should not be able to cheat their neighbors by not buying insurance, particularly when they can afford it, and expect others to pay for their care when they need it.

But you guys want other people to pay for your insurance, that's the whole Idea behind Obamacare. Rob from Paul to give to Peter.

” An “individual mandate,” he added, should be applied “when the larger health-care system has been fundamentally changed.” (Gingrich)

Where is Gingrich again? I don't see him anywhere as the Republican nominee. Hmmmmm....wonder why?

You don't just get free healthcare. So the conservatives want a mandate just like the liberals. It was voted in. It's all about personal "responsibility" and that's being "conservative" so there is no "freeloading".

Is that what you call it, asking me to pay for your insurance. Hey, I'm leaving the states tomorrow, so you can't' get my money, that's what a lot of us are doing. Why? Because you liberals are FREELOADING off of us! Instead of creating a strong middle class and a healthy private sector, this president is focusing on government entitlements. That's not helping the economy nor the private sector.

Sorry, conservatives want the same thing pretty much Obama wants.

No, they don't, that is an outright lie. If they did, they would've supported this crap, but they didn't, not the way this system is, for sure.

I don't know why you are arguing with me.

I'm not arguing with you, but I don't agree with you on any of these issues as you would probably a Ready have guessed. That's NOT arguing, that's just us having a fundamental disagreement on social issues.

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You believe a person who cannot pay for cancer treatment should be rejected from all hospitals and die. It is private business. No, he did not order a lobster. But he has cancer. What do you think?

Are you bitter because you think a man born in Africa is president?

At least some of the founding fathers had slaves so you believe slavery should return. OK, I don't agree with you but it's your opinion. Would you want a slave to mow your lawn?

But conservatives during their campaigns do pitch a mandate. Also, Romney did in his state so they really want t mandate. Nixon tried to pass one.

Some people, he said, "argue that the Constitution's framers could not possibly have envisioned a congressional power to force purchases. However, in 1790, the first Congress, which was packed with framers, required all ship owners to provide medical insurance for seamen; in 1798, Congress also required seamen to buy hospital insurance for themselves.

Sorry, early framers wanted a mandate so it's in America's history. The founders would like to have a mandate since they made one in their early history.

Nothing about the IRS scandal now. If no one has been arrested then no crime has been committed One person from the last Bush WH did get convicted on record. These are non-stories like Iran Contra.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

All readers back on topic please.

Anyway, none of that is true about the founding fathers, nor intended, but back on track to the original topic. I think it's good for the republicans to hold off on ANY deal that would allow illegals to get a pathway to citizenship, unless they follow the same procedures as everyone else that comes to the country, they need to wait in line, but I do think its good they can at least work legally and get a drivers license, that will get them out of the shadows into the system and at least they can earn money to take care of themselves or their families. Other than that, they have to EARN their citizenship, it shouldn't be given freely, it's NOT fair to those that have followed the rules for years and never broke the law.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"none of that is true about the founding fathers"

But I just sourced it. The founding fathers wanted it and so did Newt, Romney, and Dole...also Nixon. But most important voters decided so you have to go with the majority.

"for the republicans to hold off on ANY deal "

Exactly, we would not want to easily make available 2.7 million green cards like with Reagan. And it would have been a lot more as many people who would have been eligible didn't know about the system. It could have been many many more and Reagan was the one who inked it in. So maybe the next Republican president might do this. Blaming the Democrats on this is just an excuse because even today decades later the borders are still porous and will always remain porous (they have been building the fences, actually). There will always be tunnels, boats, airplanes, many ways to get over the borders. But the "hundreds" coming in every day as you said previously is quite a low number so don't worry. Reagan messed up but there is always the future.

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That's just not true.

As for federally mandated health care, I think they would be wary of entrusting such an important service to an entity they feared viscerally. But they wouldn't have been fanatical in their resistance to it. As much as federally mandated health care would frighten them, I believe fanaticism would have frightened them even more.

This is if it existed back then, which it didn't.

Exactly, we would not want to easily make available 2.7 million green cards like with Reagan. And it would have been a lot more as many people who would have been eligible didn't know about the system.

You keep referring to the past, we are not talking about the past. We know Reagan gave those people amnesty, but Reagan didn't do it out of the goodness of his heart, absolutely not. He thought since they are here and many more were coming in, the best way to stem the tide of immigration was to forgive the people that were already in the country at the time and with the help of the federal government and the Dems, they would seal off the border. That didn't happen.

It could have been many many more and Reagan was the one who inked it in.

And because of that the results were disastrous for the country. He was hoodwinked as was the country.

So maybe the next Republican president might do this.

Yes, as proposed by Boehner, Hatch and other Top Republican leaders, they can be offered valid drivers license and the legal right to work with the future possibility of applying for a US citizenship. That is the ONLY way. The Republicans are NOT going to be duped again, the same way Reagan was and handing Democrats 11million New voters, just not going to happen, that would be like handing a robber your house keys. These people want to become Americans, they need to earn it. That's the ONLY way the Republicans will approach this.

Blaming the Democrats on this is just an excuse because even today decades later the borders are still porous and will always remain porous (they have been building the fences, actually).

Sure, I NEVER said, the border was a Democratic Party problem, both sides were derelict in this from Reagan to Obama, NO one has sealed the border.

The Dems want the votes and the Repubs the cheap labor, but if we are going to get this mess under control, the first and foremost thing we need to do is seal the border and put the national guard there, build a fortified fence or wall. Once you have that under control, you can begin the next phase.

There will always be tunnels, boats, airplanes, many ways to get over the borders.

That doesn't mean, you give up. A country with open borders is NOT a safe and sovereign nation. Mexico has strict immigration policies, very strict. They turn away and kick out immigrants all the time. So they can do it, but we can't? That's just BS!

But the "hundreds" coming in every day as you said previously is quite a low number so don't worry.

Typical liberal attitude. Yeah, who cares if I have to pay for some illegals healthcare. Liberals love to spend other people's money until they run out.

Reagan messed up but there is always the future.

Exactly and the Republicans will make sure that past will NOT repeat itself.

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"you NEED young people at least about 7 million to sign up" That's why the Republicans want a mandate. A real mandate. Not ObamaCare. Shall I quote Gingrich again.

" illegals are coming in by the hundreds on a daily basis " Your quote. It's a low estimated number.

"you want the rich to pay" I would be paying. I fact I'm paying in a single payer now. ALL but the poor would be paying.

"MOST hospitals won't turn you away." Then who is paying the bill if someone needs 300,000 dollars worth of Leukemia treatment and has no insurance? That's "freeloading" and the solution is a "mandate" to take "responsibility" (Romney)

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"you NEED young people at least about 7 million to sign up" That's why the Republicans want a mandate. A real mandate. Not ObamaCare. Shall I quote Gingrich again.

Where are the 7 million.......? Silence.

" illegals are coming in by the hundreds on a daily basis " Your quote. It's a low estimated number.

It doesn't matter if it's 10 or 1million illegal is illegal, they are breaking the law, period! .

"MOST hospitals won't turn you away." Then who is paying the bill if someone needs 300,000 dollars worth of Leukemia treatment and has no insurance?

That would be absorbed by the tax payer, but you would be treated.

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"That would be absorbed by the tax payer, but you would be treated." Yeah, I'm picking up his tab because he didn't want to get health insurance. This is why I want a real Republican mandate where everyone has to get it as long as they have reasonable income. Not the wimpy ObamaCare. You see, I want to get my own health insurance and I don't want young middle class deadbeats skipping out on their responsibility and spreading out all these unpaid bills so middle class like me suffer more . So according to Romney the "mandate" promotes "responsibility" so there is no "freeloading' like the example I just provided. Next time I will vote Republican because I want a real mandate, according to Romney and Gingrich. I'm for tax money going to treat the poor. But I am not for someone not paying if he has reasonable income and simply wants to take a chance with his health. This is a middle class problem.

"Where are the 7 million.......? Silence." That's why we need a real mandate the conservatives want. ObamaCare is wimpy. They HAVE to pay and Obama doesn't make them. We need the Gingrich plan. They must be forced to pay.

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"That would be absorbed by the tax payer, but you would be treated." Yeah, I'm picking up his tab because he didn't want to get health insurance. This is why I want a real Republican mandate where everyone has to get it as long as they have reasonable income.

It should be a choice, NOT a must, if a customer is NOT happy with one insurance company, they should be allowed to shop around and NOT be locked into a one way system. Doesn't matter what Romney or Gingrich say! they are not President, nor are they the nominee, it's irrelevant! But that has nothing to do with Boehner and illegals. Stay on topic, please.

So anyway, you don't want to answer, these people are burdening the system, they do pay a sales tax, but that's by default. We don't need a single payer for them. Any person that breaks the law, should be penalized and in this case, citizenship should NOT be given loosely to anyone, whether they are Mexican, German, African etc. it makes sense if the Republicans can allow limited access to our system which is, they have to work at it just like everyone else to EARN the right to become a citizen. As long as it's legal, I'm all for it. But first we have to seal the border so that we can stop the flow of illegals entering into the country, that should be the first and foremost priority. Then the rest we can sort out. Boehner is right and this is the best incentive for them, NOT making the same mistakes that happened in 1986. They're not going to fall victim to the Democrats deception again, this is the right way. Giving Democrats a free ticket to 11 million new voters just like that won't happen! This way, the Dems are backed in a corner. At least, the Republican plan gives these illegals time to decide once the citizenship process starts to later decide, once they have become citizens who or which party they want to vote for AFTER, they have become citizens, that takes time,something the Democrats want to bypass.

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Oh, you want a Berlin Wall between Mexico and the States.

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If that is what it takes to stop illegals from coming in, then so be it, yes, of course.

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You arrest them, process them, put them in a database and turn them over to the Mexican police or border patrol. You only use deadly force if you are attacked or fired upon.

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Can a wall really stop illegals? Many overstay their visas.

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If done right there are some sections of the wall that have cut the flow of illegals coming in by 90%. If you can get these kind of consistent numbers throughout the entire border region, that would really turn things around and then we can focus on the illegals living within the US, now that we stopped the bleeding.

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bass4funkFeb. 21, 2014 - 06:22AM JST If done right there are some sections of the wall that have cut the flow of illegals coming in by 90%.

If done right? How? What is your solution to the agricultural industry in the U.S. which hires 95 percent illegals?

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Wait! How about Canadian illegals? We need to build a fence along Canada, right?

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@sfjp330

If done right? How? What is your solution to the agricultural industry in the U.S. which hires 95 percent illegals?

What the republicans were proposing to allow these illegals to work legally. That's the reason we need to provide driver licenses and work visas for the people that have been here, weren't convicted of any crime, the illegals should be given the right to work-legally. They work, they pay taxes, they pay back taxes and after so many years, they qualify for a green card and then , once they have a green card, they can apply for US citizenship. I have absolutely NO problem with that, as long as they pay their dues like everyone else, wait their turn, why not?

@nishikat

Wait! How about Canadian illegals? We need to build a fence along Canada, right?

What I'm saying applies to everyone and yes, even to the Canadians, although you have 30 million Canadians living in the US as oppose to 700, 000 US citizens living in Canada.

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There are 30 million Canadians living in the USA? The population of Canada is 34 million. Are you saying half of Canada is living in the USA? If that's the case we really need a wall to keep the Canadians out.

Again, I want to confirm you say 30million Canadians live in the USA.

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Sorry, I made a mistake (which doesn't happen too often) it's more like 910,000, I completely botched that one, sorry.

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Don't forget that Mexico has a very young population. Think about future generations. GDP growth is going faster than America's. How long is the fence actually needed? Less and less. You can't deny the world middle class is growing...that's the best fence.

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Should a person be rewarded with citizenship for breaking the law? Absolutely not. Therefore a “path to citizenship”should never be a part of any viable option. Illegal aliens should be banned from ever becoming a U.S. citizen, as a sanction for entering the country without papers.

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I'm not saying banning them, but it am advocating to putting them at the end of the line. If they do break the law. I just want then to follow the same process to becoming a citizen like everyone else that is law-abiding.

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