Both U.S. presidential campaigns faulted for negative ads

The way these two campaigns have been joking, a bloody joke. Looks like a group of pre school kids calling each other names and bickering, not two groups vying for the most powerful office in the world. I thought the Thai political situation was a farce, this is not too far behind.

Of course McCain admits he can't send an email. His arms and hands are not physically capable of using a keyboard, due to the injuries he suffered in captivity. You would think Team Obama would fact check a little bit...

DS, you don't need a pole vaulter's arm to send an email.

Karl Rove, the widely acknowledged master of negative personality politics, is saying this???

Damn, it's like Jesus criticizing the Bible....

This coming out of Rove shows how even Rove can change.

And the O ad didn't say McCain hasn't changed in the last 72 years. It says 26: In reference to his years in the senate not his years on earth

“I agree that the campaign has gotten too negative on both sides,” Giuliani said.

That's must be the first sensible thing Giuliani has said all year.

I agree that they're both getting to be too negative, but I'm not sure why Karl Rove is the one speaking out about it. It's like Santa releasing a statement saying people are giving out too many presents on Christmas.

I don't think it's any big deal if someone doesn't use email or the Internet. As a matter of fact, I think there's something very positive to say about not using a "computer". (Does anyone use this for computing?)

I'm not quite sure, though, but I don't think McCain's injuries prevent him from using the computer. They might make it a less convenient way of communicating or accessing information and if one were to say that, I could understand it. But to say that the injuries prevent him seems to me to be a coy way of saying he can't cope with modern technology because he was a hero. And that seems to me to be a bit suspect.

My grandfather typed out sermons and letters for over 50 years using just two fingers. He got to be pretty fast. He was no keyboard virtuoso, but if two fingers can fly, his did.

So, while it's no big deal that McCain doesn't use a computer, it would be something of a concern if McCain couldn't learn how to use a computer. Obviously we should not be requiring that FDR run the 100 meters in 20 seconds, but with all the modern technology for assisting computer use and given the importance of information technology in our lives, it's fair to ask for a more detailed explanation than "war injuries".

Both campaigns are faulted for negative ads? Why, they should be lauded, not faulted! Why, without negative ads, the campaign season would be like SnoresVille! Ha ha ha!

Karl Rove was such an excellent attack dog for george bush, I can see that John McCain is getting advise from Karl Rove.

And as soon as the 527s start spending their money, we haven't seen dirty yet. < :-)

McC72:

According to an article in the Boston Globe in 2000, "McCain's severe war injuries prevent him from combing his hair, typing on a keyboard, or tying his shoes."

That would preclude sending email, wouldn't it?

The problem is that negative advertising works.

Who feeds McCain if he can't use a keyboard?

Who holds his we wee if he can't tie his shoes?

This is B/S. < :-)

Nice, adaydream. Nothing but class.

Who feeds McCain if he can't use a keyboard? Who holds his we wee if he can't tie his shoes? This is B/S. < :-)

You have the same gift Keith Olbermann does for the american vernacular.I'm honored to be a fellow progressive.

cow76,

I don't think it's a problem that negative advertising works. I think it's a problem that dishonesty works. But we've always lined up and paid our two-bits to see the freaks--which were sometimes real and sometimes not, but seldom what they were made out to be.

Let's be serious. The ad says he can't use a computer.

If you DS can swing your arms, sign a check, drive a car, shake hands, hugs his daughters, fish for the big catfish and snap his fingers do you think you should be capable to type on a keyboard?

http://www.outdoorlife.com/article/Special-Reports/John-McCain-on-Hunting-and-Fishing-0

If John McCain can do these things, he is capable of the simplist of keyboard operations. I have a friend who can't bend her fingers because of Rhematoid arthritus (sp) and she emails. I only use about 4 fingers on both hands. Never could type like most people.

I'm just being realistic. If John McCain can do the above things he can email, unless he refuses to want to learn. And we've had computers for how long?

So you have a person who is so backwards he can't use a computer. Is that what the ad is refering to? Is it saying John McCain is out of it and can't keep up with the current world and technology? Is he too old?

That's what I'm asking, is this what the ads are portraying? That John McCain's time has come and gone? < :-)

Negative ads? Originally, Obama wanted a clean campaign. Then, when it was obvious that McCain was losing points to Obama. McCain started the negative ads. Typical republican strategy.

The worst negative ad against Obama was, Obama wants to teach sex education to five year old kids!" Talk about taking things out of context. McCains a carpetbagger....I live in Arizona, USA. McCain will do anything, including lying in order to win this election. He didn't even have a choice in his pick for V.P. He was told to pick Palin. Darn Lobyists thinking they run the USA. We shall see. GO OBAMA!!

Saying that candidate mccain doesn't know how to send email because of his war wounds is a huge stretch in logic and an even bigger one in imagination.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_NaturallySpeaking

Voice recognition software. Game over.

I agree that they're both getting to be too negative, but I'm not sure why Karl Rove is the one speaking out about it. It's like Santa releasing a statement saying people are giving out too many presents on Christmas.

From where I sit, there was nothing but truth in that statement.

8

Taka

Candidate mccain's injuries have nothing to do with him not knowing how to use a computer or send an email.

Take a look at this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Hawking

He's almost completely paralyzed, yet he composes speeches, browses the internet and sends emails on a computer.

I think we can put this bit of nonsense to bed.

Taka

I'm not quite sure, though, but I don't think McCain's injuries prevent him from using the computer. They might make it a less convenient way of communicating or accessing information and if one were to say that, I could understand it. But to say that the injuries prevent him seems to me to be a coy way of saying he can't cope with modern technology because he was a hero. And that seems to me to be a bit suspect.

Using your fingers to type properly involves advanced motor skills. If you've ever known anyone who suffered a disease or injury that affected their mobility then you would know how frustrating even routine use of a computer can be for them. Considering how often McCain's fingers were broken in a PoW camp, is it really all that "suspect" to say that his war injuries could make it difficult if not painful for him to use a computer?

Saying that candidate mccain doesn't know how to send email because of his war wounds is a huge stretch in logic and an even bigger one in imagination. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_NaturallySpeaking Voice recognition software. Game over.

Dragon Naturally Speaking is extremely unreliable software. It is only used professionally by people who do not otherwise have access to a secretary or someone who can type for them. Also, it only works with word processing and not general computer use. I think it is an even further stretch of logic for anyone commenting here to assume they are educated enough about McCain's POW injuries to pass medical judgment on the extent to which they may or may not limit his motor skills...

Reicheru,

As I indicated before, there's typing and then there's typing. Many a hunt-and-peck person has churned out novels.

I'll give you inconvenience--and that's what I said before. I won't give you impossibility--that his injuries "prevent" him from using the computer. So, yes, I would say that such a claim is suspect.

There is only one reason and one reason only that Karl Rove criticized negative campaigning. It did so to gain credibility and then slip in his lies.

Rove said he believed that Obama’s “lipstick on a pig” comment was a “deliberate slap at Governor Palin,” saying it came too soon after the Alaska governor’s pitbull comment not to be. Rove also said while it might be fair to criticize McCain for being a longtime Washington insider, faulting McCain for not using a computer when he can’t type due to war injuries is not.

He is basically saying don't believe any of the lies but believe these two statements. They just happen to be the most successful of charges. He is such a slimy snake. People like him and Cheney would cook up a plan to publicly disclose the identity of an undercover operative working for the U.S. Government. Oh that's right; that is exactly what they did.

Sez and Reicheru,

I concede that DNS doesn't help as far as web browsing or email, however, as I pointed out earlier, Stephen Hawkins can use a computer to write papers, browse the web and write emails. I don't know a lot about candidate mccain's medical situation as he's decided to severely limit its release, however, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that candidate mccain has FAR more use of his hands and fingers than Dr. Hawkins, who uses a computer.

To say mccain cannot because of a disability, is ridiculous, at very best.

Taka

My fellow progressives, I think we got set up by the mccain camp:

"In certain ways, McCain was a natural Web candidate. Chairman of the Senate Telecommunications Subcommittee and regarded as the U.S. Senate’s savviest technologist, McCain is an inveterate devotee of email. His nightly ritual is to read his email together with his wife, Cindy. The injuries he incurred as a Vietnam POW make it painful for McCain to type. Instead, he dictates responses that his wife types on a laptop. “She’s a whiz on the keyboard, and I’m so laborious,” McCain admits."

that is from Forbes Magazine,

May 2000

Enough with the mindless chatter from both sides. Pakistani troops fired, with intent to kill, at American helicopters today. Does either side have any comment besides another negative, trivial ad?

To say mccain cannot because of a disability, is ridiculous, at very best.

The defense of the alleged extent of McCain's disabilities reminds me of OJ's defense team claiming that OJ couldn't hold a knife.

And so, "If the keyboard doesn't fit, you must acquit."

As for McCain being a "natural Web candidate" and being regarded as the U.S. Senate's "savviest technologist," the country is in far deeper doo-doo than I ever imagined if those are true -- tied with McCain's inability to use a keyboard.

As for reading emails nightly with Cindy, that's total BS. The two have lived pretty much separate lives for years up until this campaign started. (Ah, that's right, Mr. McCain was on the campaign trail back in 2000, too. That's why they were together.)

If he cannot send emails by himself he is not suited to be President. By now he could have received the accommodations to fully operate a computer by himself. The U.S. Senate would pay for such accommodations. So not only can he not operate a computer he does not know how to use basic skills to appropriate the equipment to do his job. If he needs some one to type his email that means he can never send a private classified message to another person without a third party knowing that information.

Given time we can just keep on exposing Palin's lies.

Palin: Let me speak specifically about a credential that I do bring to this table, Charlie, and that's with the energy independence that I've been working on for these years as the governor of this state that produces nearly 20 percent of the U.S. domestic supply of energy, that I worked on as chairman of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, overseeing the oil and gas development in our state to produce more for the United States.

Not even close. Palin claims Alaska "produces nearly 20 percent of the U.S. domestic supply of energy." That's not true. Alaska did produce 14 percent of all the oil from U.S. wells last year, but that's a far cry from all the "energy" produced in the U.S. Alaska's share of domestic energy production was 3.5 percent, according to the official figures kept by the U.S. Energy Information Administration. And if by "supply" Palin meant all the energy consumed in the U.S., and not just produced here, then Alaska's production accounted for only 2.4 percent.

She sure can tell some whoppers can't she?

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/energetically_wrong.html

The injuries he incurred as a Vietnam POW make it painful for McCain to type.

Somebody call me when it's an issue that he doesn't can't do e-mail because he doesn't understand how.

He doesn't really do e-mail because typing for him may just be a wee bit more difficult than the rest of us after he broke both his arms. And the medical care he recieved courtesy of the North Vietnamese didn't really involve physical therapy to get his full range of motion back.

Taka, I have total respect for you but I do ask this as a favor please give the man respect and type his name as McCain not mccain as you do and put the politics aside....The man is a Vet and I gave the same respect to Kerry also in 2004 though I didn't care for most of his politics. Kerry was vet and though I don't care for him I would never dishonor his service and type kerry......When you type mccain it feels that you are dishonoring his service please consider that.

GoodDonkey, and others:

Get a look at the comprehensive article on Palin's true style and character that is in the New York Times. Not to be missed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html?em

If he cannot send emails by himself he is not suited to be President.

Wait a minute, you're talking about the savviest technologist who never used a computer.

From the above mentioned NYT article:

"So when there was a vacancy at the top of the State Division of Agriculture, [Palin] appointed a high school classmate, Franci Havemeister, to the $95,000-a-year directorship. A former real estate agent, Ms. Havemeister cited her childhood love of cows as a qualification for running the roughly $2 million agency."

So what? Bush's first director of FEMA cited his love of firetrucks as a kid, and we all know he did a "heckuva job."

Good job Yabits.....A hit piece on Palin from the New York Times........What a shocker.

Another vote just swang in Peoria toward McCain and Palin.

Good job NYT....She's got an 80 percent approval rating from her constituents as to how she governed it's their opinion that counts, good to see the NYT ignore that and go show those backward bumpkins how atrocious she really is.

That'll get those approval ratings down in Alaska after they read what the NYT has to say about her.

Another vote just swang in Peoria toward McCain and Palin.

Did that voter have his/her money managed by Lehmann Bros? If it's one thing you Republicans are good at, it's getting people to focus on "important" issues such as lipstick on a pig.

She's got an 80 percent approval rating from her constituents...

Bush had similar high ratings two years into his first term. Shows what 80% of the people know.

Why not read the article and counter with facts, rather than try to kill the messenger, Palin-like. Unlike a lot of Republicans, I think ALL of the people running for the highest office ought to have their decisions and actions scrutinized, because those reveal character. As Bush's popularity proved, a majority of Americans are pretty easily bamboozled.

Another vote just swang in Peoria toward McCain and Palin.

McCain will need a lot more of those votes to capture Barack's home state. He plays in Peoria quite well.

Yabits,

Why not read the article and counter with facts, rather than try to kill the messenger.

I read the article and I was struck by the dearth of a similar article as to how Obama makes his decisions. How did he manage his staff when he was a State legislator? How did he fire people he didn't like? How did he run his office? Where is that article?

What about his Senate staff? How does he run that????? The NYT sure hasn't run anything close to what that just ran agaisn't Palin. Heck I know half her High School class and and next I'll get their GPA's after they are done wit their fair and balanced reporting.

What High School do Obama go to and his best friend there? I'm sure the NYT will get around to that level of scrutinity soon enough after all they are fair aren't they?

alinsky,

It looks to me like the Obama people distorted the truth on this issue. It's not that he doesn't use computers because he doesn't understand them but rather because he has found a way that is more comfortable for him to get the work done.

If he were to choose to join the rest of us online, the options are there for him, however.

The Obama camp will receive an email from me (for what it's worth) regarding the issue.

Sail,

When candidate mccain went back on his word to run a clean campaign and then hired the same people to run his campaign that he said were headed to a special place in hell for the lack of respect they showed him, his family and the South Carolinian voters in 2000, he showed me (my opinion) that his concern for American ideals and Americans takes a back seat to winning the presidency. That cost him every last bit of respect I once had for him. Sorry for the run-on sentence earlier but, to answer your request...no.

Taka

Taka313 - It must be frustrating being surrounded by people who support John McCain and Sarah Palin.

Taka13; Why pretend your workmate support soenone they hate?

Obama is the guy running negative afs, i all ive seen from McCains camp is honesty.

Sailwind,

The reason you don't know about Obama's high school friends is because he looked for competent people to hire -- not cronies. Contrast the Palin-type of leader with leaders who bring in their political opponents into their circle so as not to be surrounded by "yes-men." (Kindly excuse the gender usage.)

Rest assured, had there been anything amiss in Obama's staff decisions, the Times and other news sources would have uncovered it and reported on it. As to one of Obama's key life decisions -- leaving community organizing and entering politics -- John Judis of The New Republic has written quite a revealing article on that period of Obama's life, titled "Creation Myth."

Like the Times article, it contains a great detail of critical analysis of its subject. Expecting a right-wing source to provide details on someone like Palin is a bit like trying to get the straight scoop on Jim Jones from a People's Temple member. Oh, it could be gotten, but one would have to dig. That's why people like Palin are so obsessed with secrecy and loyalty. It's all about them.

Taka,

You'll get no argument from me on DNS. I agree with you that the claim that McCain's injuries prevent computer use is weak, perhaps even ridiculous. I don't think McCain ever made that claim, however.

I think it was the Democrats that suggested that McCain was something of a Luddite on account of not using email or the computer. In view of everything that has happened in this campaign, I can't find that very offensive. McCain said we should have fun, didn't he?

However, vis-a-vis your point that it is not true that he doesn't use the computer because he doesn't (can't) understand it, I tend to agree. I don't think there is anything to suggest that McCain is incapable of learning new tasks. Nonetheless, it may be true that he doesn't understand it because he doesn't use it. The danger of that is that he might think "24" is real.

Open up a socket for me, will you?

WMDLocated2004,

What would make that really convincing would be a instances of this honesty.

...a few instances...

Taka313 - I'm sorry, I didn't realize that your two offices are so out of step with the rest of Yokosuka and the U.S. military, which, according to Gallup, supports McCain over Obama 56% to 34%! I hereby rescind my 10:09 post!

The reason you don't know about Obama's high school friends is because he looked for competent people to hire -- not cronies.

The other distinction is that Obama ran an office as a Congressman whereas Palin has executive authority as Governor (so it's fair to ask how she used it). Those who run offices can hire anybody they want at whatever salaries they deem appropriate; half of Congress (maybe more) has relatives on the payroll. By contrast, those who fill positions within the government must consider the requirements of that position. In other words, if GWB wants Harriet Miers as his in-house legal counsel, fine. To appoint her to a vacancy on the Supreme Court, well that's a whole different level of scrutiny (as she and he found out).

sarge,

Thank you for the apology, however, this is an excellent opportunity for you to learn a lesson. Had you not posted something with no evidence to back up your claim whatsoever, you wouldn't have put yourself in a position to have to apologize.

As for the Gallup poll, it's largely N/A in this case. Of both offices where I work, there is only 1 active duty military person. The rest are either Japanese or US civil servants, hired locally.

Sail,

Do you honestly believe that Gov. Palin has been scrutinized to a greater degree than Sen. Obama? Have you already forgotten the scrutiny into his childhood to determine whether or not he was a muslim? How about the flag pin issue? The lack of having his hand over his hear issue?

Gov. Palin is getting scrutinized. So is Sen. Obama. So is everyone involved in this campaign.

The only difference is that Sen. Obama has been dealing with it longer than any of the 4 major players and he's dealt with it better.

9

Taka

hear = heart.

9

Taka

Hey, Palin can see Russia from her living room window Cant beat that.

Taka313 - Speaking of evidence, Do you have any evidence whatsoever to back up your claim that everyone but one person in your two offices supports Obama?

Also, why do you think this man-child Barack Obama, with zero military experience and who thinks kindergarteners should receive sex education, is better suited to be commander in chief than John McCain? I don't get it...

zurcronium - Hey, Obama thinks kindergarteners should get sex education. Can't beat that.

Sarge; "man-child", nice one! Hee Hee!

Obama is negative in his ads and his policies. His rich friends cannot bail him out of trouble.

sarge,

I talked to them. I'd introduce you but...a) you are not allowed on U.S. military installations and b) I like them too much. ;-)

Taka

sarge,

Oh boy, can I play too! ?!?

Sen. Obama wants kindergartners to have sex ed. just like candidate mccain doesn't want kindergartners to know how to protect themselves from sexual predators!

Taka

313 - Oh, for cryin' out loud, just because Obama wants kindergarteners to receive sex education doesn't mean that McCain doesn't want them to know how to protect themselves from sexual predators. Grow up.

"I talked to them"

Oh, well then, that's all the proof we need!

Oh, by the way, I am indeed allowed on U.S. military installations. I still get invited by people even after all these years. When are you going to invite me, a fellow former U.S. serviceman with an honorable discharge?

I don't know how Mr McCain will deal with sexual predators, but I'm rather more interested to see how Ms Palin reacts to it.

Will it be death, or abstenance?

All I can say is that when even Karl Rove finds the campaign ads pitiful, Americans should really take note...

Just a comment on McCain's use, or lack thereof, of a computer. Remember in this country (the good 'ole USA) a jury of twelve once believed that a man colorfully known only as 'OJ' could not have committed the crime of near-beheading/murder because according to him he could barely move - despite playing one of the most physically challenging and brutal games ever played for years, and continuing to play golf. Well, there were those pesky gloves that didn't fit because he comically flexed/stretched his hand out so they wouldn't. But the point is that if you throw it out to the gullible masses, they'll likely bite. Negative press works because people idiotically believe anything in print is real truth.

sarge,

First of all, it's just as true to say Sen. Obama wants kindergartners to have sex ed. just like candidate mccain doesn't want kindergartners to know how to protect themselves from sexual predators.

They are both gross misrepresentations of the truth. My point was that it is easy to mis-represent the truth. Obama did it regarding his ad about mccain's computer use and candidate mccain did it regarding his claim that Sen. Obama wants to teach sex ed. to kindergarteners.

"Oh, well then, that's all the proof we need!"

Which is still a heck of a lot more proof than you offer to MANY of your claims. I wish I could prove it to you more, but, as I said, I like my co-workers too much.

When are you going to invite me, a fellow former U.S. serviceman with an honorable discharge?

As soon as you earn that big "S."

Taka

Taka,

You mean a You Tube video made by a McCain supporter isn't enough?

D-amn you're a stickler for proof....;)

Also a comment on McCain's apparent Luditism, I for one am pretty shocked - America has been internet savvy long befoe the rest of us - I know McCain's old, but I can't believe he isn't a net user...

sailwind said:

..A hit piece on Palin from the New York Times........What a shocker.

Have you seen the sources sailwind quotes? New York Times has a great reputation. Since 1918, the New York Times daily newspaper has won 98 Pulitzer Prizes, a prize awarded for excellence in journalism in a range of categories. This is far more than any other newspaper. sailwind take your best shot at the Pulitzer Prize.

sailwind said:

Another vote just swang in Peoria toward McCain and Palin.

We got Illinois. McCain Inc. can win every vote in Peoria and we still got Illinois.

sailwind said:

Good job NYT....She's got an 80 percent approval rating from her constituents as to how she governed it's their opinion that counts, good to see the NYT ignore that and go show those backward bumpkins how atrocious she really is.

Maybe their motivation was to give information to the American people on Palin but if you know they did it to "go show those backward bumpkins how atrocious she really is" then I congratulate you on your resourcefulness. However when you say "She's got an 80 percent approval rating from her constituents as to how she governed it's their opinion that counts,". I really think in a national election it is all 50 states whose opinion counts and not just Alaska.

sailwind, you cannot question the content it is accurate and it does not bode well for Palin. Maybe you can attack the writers. Just because N.Y. Times gets Pulitzers does not mean these writers did does it? Jo Becker along with Barton Gellman, won the 2008 Pulitzer award for national reporting award for documenting the power and secrecy wielded by Vice President Dick Cheney. Just think sailwind you can expose Jo Becker for lying about Palin and bring down a Pulitzer Prize winner in the year she won the award. Jo Becker along with Peter S. Goodman and Michael Powell were the writers of the fine article yabits brought to the attention of the fine readers of JT. Thank you so much yabits it made my day. Hey, sailwind, those pesky Pulitzer Prizes what do they mean anyway?

goodDonkey: thank you for your kind words to me. But, like most Americans, I am proud and indebted to see how the finest of our journalists are still able to pursue the highest calling of their profession. All praise goes to them and to their editors.

Secondly, secrecy in a democracy should be treated as an anathema. Those who claim to love the United States of America must come to grips with that.

Lastly, I am hoping that the Republican Party can once again try to reclaim its roots as the party of Lincoln. Take a look at Delores Kearns Goodwin's book "Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln" and measure just how far you have fallen from that standard. And how the USA has suffered as a result.

Good job NYT....She's got an 80 percent approval rating from her constituents as to how she governed it's their opinion that counts, good to see the NYT ignore that and go show those backward bumpkins how atrocious she really is.

Such a comment as this reflects "the victim mentality" at the hands of the liberal, elitest media which is addressed in an LA TImes OP-Ed column today:

But who really cares about fairness and consistent thinking when politics are in play? Like the minority activist groups that conservatives abhor, the Republicans know very well that crying out against a foe is one sure way to rally the troops. And it works particularly well when your side is in political or ideological disarray. If you can't inspire your base with a coherent vision of the future, then you might as well unify it with the promise to stand up against the boogeyman.

In the end, conservatives are right, we have become a nation of victims, but surely it's getting more difficult for them to blame it all on the liberals.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-rodriguez15-2008sep15,0,2884949.column

313 - Sorry, but Obama's the one who said "It's the right thing to do" concerning sex education for kindergarteners. McCain never said he doesn't want kindergarteners to know how to protect themselves from sexual predators. You are wrong.

"As soon as you earn that big "S."

Most other posters extend the courtesy of using my proper handle of "Sarge." You'll get a "Taka" from me when you extend the same courtesy.

Sarge

Sarge

Where are your facts? You never present facts? So are in favor of the Palin plan? A bun in the oven is better than learning contraception. The Republican platform clearly states that they want no contraception available to students. Thoughtless moral junkies are willing to ruin kids lives so they can ignore reality.

Where the 'sex education in kindergarten' thing came from -

We have a existing law that mandates sex education in the schools. We want to make sure that it's medically accurate and age-appropriate.

Now, I'll give you an example, because I have a six-year-old daughter and a three-year-old daughter, and one of the things my wife and I talked to our daughter about is the possibility of somebody touching them inappropriately, and what that might mean.

And that was included specifically in the law, so that kindergarteners are able to exercise some possible protection against abuse, because I have family members as well as friends who suffered abuse at that age. So, that's the kind of stuff that I was talking about in that piece of legislation.

So, in the spirit of 'You're either with us or agin us', dinosaurs in the Republican Party (and elsewhere) who disagree with Obama on age-appropriate sex education in kindergarten are by definition people who don't want kindergarteners to know how to protect themselves from sexual predators.

So, in the spirit of 'You're either with us or agin us', dinosaurs in the Republican Party (and elsewhere) who disagree with Obama on age-appropriate sex education in kindergarten are by definition people who don't want kindergarteners to know how to protect themselves from sexual predators.

God will protect them, Cleo, like he protects altar boys.

cleo; Nobody in the Republican party has stated what you claim. Your attempts at smearing the peoples party are laughable, you are not even an American.

Obama has been vile in his accusations towards Palin and McCain. I have yet to see anything negative from the McCain camp, that was not 100% truthfull.

cleo

It is very important for me to hear someone like you speak words of wisdom and recognize the need to be honest. I get weary from the constant battle of words. I feel very strongly about giving kids the best chance to survive and thrive in life. I know kids can get emotionally damaged from having sex at an early age no matter how protected they are physically from disease and early pregnancy. A kid can choose to have sex or be pressured into having sex and then just get used by the other person and if they are not emotionally stable it can have an adverse effect on the rest of their lives. I do not want to promote sex. But we can try our hardest to protect them physically if they fail to make ideal choices. I believe we have disagreed in the past about open sexual conduct. I recall an article on JT about a couple on a plane who were acting more explicit than you would care to accept without the steward or stewardess having the authority to end such conduct. I did not believe they should have had the right to intervene. I don't enjoy such conduct and I find it annoying but I think they should be able to act stupid. My point is that I know you are more modest and would allow greater social restraint. It is all that much more meaningful to me that you recognize efforts to provide information that may end up being the last resort to saving kids lives. On factcheck.org they outline how McCain was being dishonest:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/off_base_on_sex_ed.html

It is clear that the proposed legislation gives the parents the right of refusal. They can prevent their child from being exposed to any such information. It was written into the legislation Obama proposed. I also want to say that I would never carry on in public in anyway but a quick kiss, holding hands, a hug or an arm draped around a shoulder. I am very permissive of others though because I think one can tell a child that "those adults over there are acting inappropriatly and I hope you never act that way in public."

I won't lie either I wish all kids at least by the age of 12 were given contraceptive advice. But I think in the end parents should have the right to object to such information. I have two simple concerns. I don't want kids bringing babies into this world. Also I don't want kids to catch diseases that can shorten their lives. I have always thought kids should be told about predators at an early age. The legislation Obama proposed is available for anyone to analyze on the factcheck.org address I provided.

Once again here is the Republican platform position:

We renew our call for replacing "family planning" programs for teens with increased funding for abstinence education, which teaches abstinence until marriage as the responsible and expected standard of behavior. Abstinence from sexual activity is the only protection that is 100 percent effective against out-ofwedlock pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV/AIDS when transmitted sexually. We oppose school-based clinics that provide referrals, counseling, and related services for abortion and contraception.

I put "provide referrals" in bold text because they not only want to prevent the school from mentioning contraception they also do not want to allow them to be free to tell them where they could get additional information.

Obama is negative , his advisers are negative and so are his supporters, like the ill informed bunch on this site. Hahahaha.

Regarding negative campaigning:

http://www.flapolitics.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=17555C55CBBFDFFA07907A0466F0D90E?diaryId=3075

Push-polling was used to imply Sen. McCain had fathered an illegitimate black child in 2000.

I'm very curious to see if candidate mccain will denounce this.

Taka

Nobody in the Republican party has stated what you claim.

So they agree with Obama's idea of age-appropriate sex-ed in kindergarten? OK. That's good.

Your attempts at smearing the peoples party are laughable, you are not even an American.

Hmmm, not attempting to 'smear' anybody. But you're right, darn silly of me to forget that only Americans are interested in good education for kids. Duh.

Sorry, but Obama's the one who said "It's the right thing to do" concerning sex education for kindergarteners.

Liar. Have you no shame?

Heck, Obama's been running negative ads since the end of 2007 with his ad bashing Edwards' and Hillary's healthcare plans.

goodDonkey - Students should be studying, not having sex, no? It's not the responsiblity of schools to provide students with condoms. Heck, my school didn't.

Good one, Taka.

If Taka were an incestuous Satan-worshipper who mocked God-fearing Republicans who want to have the freedom to teach about the Intelligent Design/Evolutionismism controversy, would that influence your support for him as a candidate positively, or nagatively?

Hew, it's just a hypothetical question.

DanMan - Nov. 20, 2007 - Barack Obama, speaking at a Planned Parenthood event, said this about Alan Keyes, who was his opponent in the 2004 Senate race: "I remember him, uh, using this in his campaign against me, saying, "Barack Obama supports teaching sex education to kindergarteners." ( laughter ) And you know, which -- I didn't know what to tell him. But it's the right thing to do, to provide age-appropriate sex education, science-based sex education in schools."

Watch the video at http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3386492

OK, now apologize for calling me a liar.

sarge,

Leaving out the age-appropriate part won't earn you a big "S" and I doubt it will get you an apology.

Perhaps the mccain camp will send you a cookie however. So...there is that.

Taka

Moderator: Please address other posters by their correct user names.

Taka313 - Apparently, you can't read. For cryin' out loud, re-read my 8:54PM post.

By the way, as you can see, I've decided to once again extend you the courtesy of using your handle, Taka313, with a capital "T," even though you continue to act like a little kid and refuse to extend me the courtesy of using my handle, Sarge, spelled with a capital "S" and instead use a small "s" in a pathetic attempt to belittle me. You know, as they say in the military, "That's gonna reflect, son."

And another thing - apparently Obama thinks age-appropriate sex education includes kindergarteners.

What's this I hear about the Democrat plan to teach streetwalking to pre-schoolers?

What's this I hear about the Democrat plan to teach streetwalking to pre-schoolers?

Oh that is too funny.

Hello?

Yes, hello, I wonder if you would mind taking a survey?

Ah, sure I guess.

Would you vote for Obama if you knew he was placing condoms in the hands of infants in nurseries in hospitals across the nation?