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S Carolina shooter feared 12-year-old trick-or-treater was robber, police say

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What the heck? Now what lunatic starts shooting at kids trick or treating? Even the most fanatic pro gun lobby cannot find any sort of excuse to cover this one.

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Tragic. Unfortunately, people will use this as an excuse to crack down or cut down on trick or treating, yet drive their kids all over town all year long despite how many kids die in traffic accidents.

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Sounds like the Japanese exchange student that got knocked about 10-15 years ago. Mistook the word "freeze" for "please." This story really sux, wonder what caused the homeowner to open up on the kids.

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Sad, but my neighborhood in Chicago growing up had at least 4 or 5 murders every holiday. Murder in South Carolina is rare?

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Ban guns now. It's just common sense.

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Wake up America!!! NO GUNS!!!!!!!!!!

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At first I thought the shooter might be an elderly person who just lost their mind. But later news reports indicate a 22-year-old man has been taken into custody and charged with the shootings. I sure that as more elements of this story unfold, they will be as fascinating as they are tragic.

It seems only a form of insanity that a society would allow a person like the one who shot at these people to have a firearm, second amendment or no second amendment.

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What else can you say about this incident except to extend it to the perennial problem of banning guns?

Ban guns, yes. But how?

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Tragic. Unfortunately, people will use this as an excuse to crack down or cut down on trick or treating, yet drive their kids all over town all year long despite how many kids die in traffic accidents.

Yes, let them walk everywhere instead. You should contribute to this forum more often, caveman, as it's good to see people like you trying to get a rise out of others.

Anyhow, if there are an members of the NRA reading this, do you seriously think everyone has a right to any kind of firearm on the planet, or is that just media hype?

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Hey, he was just using his rights to protect his property. People shouldn't be so hard on him.

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Ban guns now. It's just common sense. Wake up America!!! NO GUNS!!!!!!!!!!

Ban Trick-or-Treating. It's just common sense. It puts children at risk for what? So that people are forced to spend money on buying all these sweet candies that are horrible for the children's health and teeth? What an incredibly stupid practice. Trick-or-treating is fun for little grade schoolers. But high school kids and adults should just go to Halloween parties.

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OssanULTRA - Ban Trick-or-Treating.

Been in Japan a while, haven't you? 'Wait til the horse bolts and throw stones at the gate!' The general public do not need to own guns regardless of a 300 year old constitution. - But, I guess the US is proud of having a fully armed civilian army. You have the right to bear arms (and shoot children).

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No don't ban guns. That solves nothing, just gives into fear.

I wish the best and pray for the comfort and healing of the family. < :-)

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Yeah - that old Constitution sure is inconvenient for those who know whats best for other people. Ban guns? Unless the government assigns a policeman for every family American's will never amend the Constitution and give up their ability to defend themselves. The messiah will try though...

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It would be nice to see what the motive was for this guy to shoot these trick or treaters, as well as more details, before deciding it was "self defense." In the Hattori case in Lousiana a racist jury acquitted the shooter in the criminal trial (though the civil trial he was found liable). In a similar case not long after the Hattori case a guy that shot a 17 year old teenager from inside his house was sentenced to a few years in prison for reckless use of a firearm. So we shall see what happens.

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rjd jr. Why do you say that the jury which aquitted the shooter in the Hattori case was racist? I followeed the case closely, yet had never even heard that claim. The D.A. even said that it was an open and shut self-defense case and that he only brought it to trial because ofd international pressure.

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give up their ability to defend themselves.

Right....the ability to defend themselves....mostly from other GUNS.

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Being a "U.S. American" and firm believer of the U.S. Constitution and the right to bear arms, I don't think you should ban personal fire arms. I am an American, and don't have one. People I do know who have guns are responsible with them. Ban them and then only the "outlaws" will have them. Here's a hint, if drugs are illegal and somehow criminals find a way to bring them into the country (opium/cocaine does not grow in American) then I bet a new market will arise importing guns, just like I am sure there is one here in Japan for illegal firearms.

Should people who have criminal records loose their rights to have guns, I believe so. But a whole scale banning of guns will not solve the answer. I wish I knew the best way to rid America of such gun violence, but doing away with all guns will not solve the problem.

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Well maybe it wasn't racist per se Dubya but when in a similar case involving a non asian victim, the shooter gets sentenced,and in the Louisiana case the guy gets acquitted, something does not add up. The shooter in Lousiana could easily have stayed inside and called the cops but like some yahoo cowboy decides to go outside, confront the guy, and blasts him. It wasn't a case of someone trying to barge inside the house. At any rate I am awaiting more details as to what exactly happened here.

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give up their ability to defend themselves.

Right....the ability to defend themselves....

...from 12-year-old kids?

Are people living in the US really so afraid of each other? Is the average American really such a scary being that his neighbours need guns to protect themselves from his children?

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cleo

I live in America currently. I do not need a gun to protect myself although I have spent a great deal of time in a city that was "murder capital of the world" at the time. I know that America would be safer without guns. I also know that in some countries, Britain I believe was one that crime went up after banning guns. It makes perfect sense that it will take time to get rid of every gun or at least handguns to start. The increase would happen in America but it would be temporary.

What kind of a sick ego drives the ignorance that allows a 12 year old boy to be killed? I'm sorry but I think banning Trick or Treating is the same as blaming the victim. NRA idiots want to feel power. They want to be in control. It does not matter to them that children across America are dying because they want the right to keep firearms. To advocates of gun rights don't bother expecting me to respond to all of your stupid arguments; I have heard them all before. We need to amend the constitution if that is what it will take. I don't expect to ever see it done (In my lifetime) but I know that someday advanced people will outnumber the ignorant.

Anyone who has actually looked at the real statistics of Japan for crimes that result in fatal wounds or severe wounds will see they are doing something right. Not just right but superior to most countries. What I would give to live in America with statistics like Japan has for crime. It cannot be done with firearms littering our country. I saw an article on JT, some time ago, asking why the kids always give the peace sign in Japan when there picture was taken. It seems obvious to me; they have experienced peace.

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if the 12yr old was packing some heat he could have defended himself.

Sad, because when I was 12 we were basically free to roam (parents cannot keep up) while Trick or Treating no matter if we were dressed up as Darth Vader, Jabba the Hut, Yakuza etc.

-Now if seems you need a bullet-proof vest and be armed just for some free candy. But is that really Trick-Or-Treating?

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What's silly here is using this isolated tragic incident as some sort of referendum on gun ownership, with stupid statements like, "Is the average American really such a scary being that his neighbours need guns to protect themselves from his children?"

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It is a referendum on the kind of society that would allow guns to be placed in the hands of people like that one who just shot this innocent kid and his family members.

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The man was an ex-convict in the first place and more or less shouldn't have even had a firearm in his posession. Accident or not, he apparantly just hasn't learned to pay attention to what he's doing.

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Further evidence that banning weapons only takes guns away from law abiding citizens.

Laws are already on the books that make it illegal for most ex cons to own any kind of firearm. This guy was already restricted from owning a firearm much less an automatic weapon.

The second amendment affords law abiding citizens at least some protection against those that prey upon society and it would be unconstitutional for the government to tread upon those rights.

Only someone who puts total faith in the government to guarantee their protection or solve their problems would see it the other way.

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One more on this topic from me. If guns were taken away, would we really see a decline in the murder rate in America? That is the questions. Yes guns are probably the number one way people are killed in the US, but there are thousands of other deaths at the hands of beatings, stabbings and other methods.

Take Japan, tight gun control laws. But still do we not see that every week, someone has been killed by a stabbing, and stabbed or killed by a family member. The point I am getting at is wheter with guns or knives, it is some peoples nature to want to kill their fellow humans. That has been with us from the beginning. If we control guns and do away with them, we will still find a way to kill each other. Being killed by a hand gun is the same as being killed by stabbing or being axed as is the case recently here at JT.

This guy was a felon with a gun. He had all ready broken the law. So do you think that banning guns would actually stop him from having one, since, I am sure he was aware of the law, and did not go to a licensed gun dealer to buy one.

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society that would allow guns to be placed in the hands of people like that one

What makes you think society allows guns to be placed in the hands of people like this? Ex-cons don't purchase AK-47's from their local gun dealer. Criminals find illicit ways to obtain guns. A ban on guns will only affect law abiding citizens who use them responsibly for protection against people like this.

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I don't think that ex-cons are the only ones who act inappropriately with their AK-47s.

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He told Ms Pee to run with the 7,500 bucks. That gives me a clue as to his mental state.

As a man 'with multiple drug convictions', he would have been naturally super paranoid that his family could be a potential target anytime.

Many people are not aware of what time of year it is or what festival is being celebrated. (Those who are deeply into computer games for example.)

The daughter is pre-Hallowe'en. It's evening and suddenly you see a bunch of strange people in masks approaching your door and it's OMG, Grab the money and run!!! Don't worry about me. I'll take care of the rest! ... ... ...

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This is the link to the Hattori case, BTW. Again a tragic result of several overlapping factors. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshihiro_Hattori

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Helter Skelter -

A ban on guns will only affect law abiding citizens who use them responsibly for protection against people like this.

Please explain how a 12-year-old is supposed to use a gun responsibly to protect himself from 'people like this' who blast away through a closed door?

The pro-gun people keep telling us over and over that guns are needed 'for protection', as if that were some kind of universal truth. It isn't. People in other countries don't need guns for protection. The claim that Americans need guns while others don't is a huge slur, in my opinion, on the American national character. You don't need guns when you go abroad (as tourists, at least). Do yourselves a favour and get rid of them at home. You might find more of your children growing up instead of becoming a sad statistic.

Alphaape -

Take Japan, tight gun control laws. But still do we not see that every week, someone has been killed by a stabbing, and stabbed or killed by a family member.

According to nationmaster, Japan has a murder rate of 0.00499933/1000; the US., 0.042802/1000. When it comes to murders using firearms, the US is #8, at 0.0279271/1000, while Japan doesn't even make the list. So yes, get rid of guns and you might find more Americans take to stabbing each other. But you'd still have the chance of reducing the murder rate by a factor of 8 or 9.

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cleo, Yes the numbers may be true, but the point I was making was that no matter what way, we unfortunately have a tendency to kill one another. Yes a 12 yr old did not expect going into a Trick or Treat situation getting shot, so whether he knew how to handle a gun or not is irrelevant. No more than the people who sleep at home and get stabbed by a parent or walking on a busy street on a Sunday and get stabbed, or the victim of a senseless drive by. We still have a tendency to want to kill each other.

At least, if this would have been a case where someone were actually breaking into a home illegally, the owners would have had a right to defend themselves. But I realize that this is not one of those cases, but we still must look at with with laws, what will be the most benefit for those who do chose to obey the laws and take the necessary steps to responsible gun ownership.

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Yes, let them walk everywhere instead.

And you accuse me of just trying to get a rise out of others??? I did not say trick or treating should gone on totally unsupervised nor saying anything remotely suggesting that.

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American's will never amend the Constitution and give up their ability to defend themselves.

You never heard of swords? Knives? Clubs? Fists? Dogs? Bars on the windows? There are lots of ways to defend oneself in a country without guns.

Heck, a simple "No trespassing" would have prevented this tragedy. Instead, this moron also seems to have thought his only option for self-defense was a gun.

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if the 12yr old was packing some heat he could have defended himself.

Oh! That is just brilliant! A shoot out on the front porch is somehow the same as no one drawing a gun at all!

Maybe math is not your strong suit, but more bullets tends to equal more death. But I think its pretty obvious the kid never would have gotten his gun out in time. Maybe his dad would have gotten a gun out after his son was dead, but that too just equals more dead people. How can you possibly not see these things?

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We still have a tendency to want to kill each other.

There's that we again. Who is 'we'? I no more have a tendency to want to kill anybody than I have a history of smoking dope, nor do the people I interact with every day. Count me/us out of that 'we'. If you're saying that Americans have an 8-fold greater tendency to kill and should therefore be given the means to do so more easily, ie guns instead of knives or bare hands, then we're obviously looking at the problem from completely different perspectives.

Your argument is a bit like saying, If you stand out in the pouring rain you're definitely going to get wet so there's no point putting a roof on your house or even considering the use of an umbrella, because at some point it might leak and you'll still be wet.

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So do you think that banning guns would actually stop him from having one, since, I am sure he was aware of the law, and did not go to a licensed gun dealer to buy one.

So what you are saying is that it is just as easy to get water in a desert as it is in an ocean?

Japanese criminals have more trouble getting guns simply because they are so hard to find here. Some yaks have them, but not a drug addled idiot like the guy we have here. America is swimming in guns, therefore even those who should not have them are getting them.

But there is another reason why criminals and idiots here generally do not have guns: they simply do not need them. Since nobody else has a gun, they don't see the need to get one themselves. --Cirroc

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He told Ms Pee to run with the 7,500 bucks.

Actually, I think she was hurrying to use the money to get a legal name change before the story hit the press. --Cirroc

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I also know that in some countries, Britain I believe was one that crime went up after banning guns.

There is this little thing I have called a "list of priorities". On that list, I have "number of unnecessary deaths" placed before "crime rates". See, I would rather have 10 people robbed than one person dead. Do you have one of these lists too? Is yours different?

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the anti gun crowd keeps ignoring the fact that no matter what laws are passed bad people break laws. it is sheer stupidity to think that once a law banning guns is passed, all these weapons just magically disappear.

the day the government comes for my weapons is the day I no longer allow the government to dictate what I can and can not do.

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I don't believe a ban on guns is going to prevent criminals from obtaining them. Neither do I have a blind trust in the government like the libs, that it's always going to protect my safety and rights.

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VOR,

I don't think anyone believes that guns will magically disappear once a law banning guns is passed. I think the magical thinkers are those who believe that 12-year old trick-or-treaters will not be shot when the criminals are all caught and only responsible gun-users remain.

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Neither do I have a blind trust in the government like the libs....

Liberals are precisely people who do not have a blind trust in government. In fact, you might say they have a fundamental distrust of government. That is why they are not content with a government's claim of a right to keep secrets.

At the same time, they also believe that the government's charge is to help secure the best possible conditions for all its citizens. And they tend to find 10,000+ gun deaths and dead trick-or-treaters as being incongruent to that task.

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I no more have a tendency to want to kill anybody than I have a history of smoking dope

An evasion worthy of a lawyer, Cleo. ;)

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...but it was intended as a clear-cut statement of fact and a demand that I be excluded from Alphaape's 'we'.....

But I can see how the plesiosaur mind might take it....

touché Nessie!

:-)

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Sounds like this punk was expecting someone to come looking for that money.

By the way, as an ex-con their are already laws that ban him from owning a firearm. In other words, the gun laws were ineffective here as I expect they would be if applied universally.

Besides empowering criminals a universal gun ban would also allow our federal government to trample our rights even worse than they're doing right now. Liberals and conservatives alike should be united in securing the means to "dare defend our rights" against a repressive government - its in our blood after all.

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Helter Skelter - the voice of reason as ever! "isolated tragic incident"

How many people die in gun crime and accidents on a daily basis in the States ? In the tens of people I believe, so it's not an "isolated tragic accident" at all. There is absolutely NO reason for someone to have an AK-47 assault rifle at home, especially a convicted felon with a drug problem. With a handgun, he'd still have been a danger, but would probably have missed.

Well Quentin Patrick, gun toting moron, off to jail for you for the rest of your life until you die. Bye.

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