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Brexit feeds European populists' ambitions of power

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And then what? Competing nationalism and war? Nationalism is a totally bankrupt ideology from which emerges nothing very good.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Seems the EU was destined to fail from the time they started taking in small, poor countries. If it had remained a kind of truncated G-7, then it may have had a chance for success. But being too inclusive led to the current situation.

I don't blame the Brits for wanting to assert their independence. They can see what unfettered migration has done to smaller neighbours like Sweden, and they don't want a repeat on their own soil. The right to control one's own borders is fundamental to being a country.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Exactly, having had the experience of living in three countries in the EU, it is obvious to me that a one size fits all policy for all countries is an impossibility!

And....

'Many Scandinavians fear that the crises battering the bloc will affect the social fabric and standards of their respective welfare states.'

In the present, many Scandanavians ARE experiencing an immigrant crisis.......

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

The right to control one's own borders is fundamental to being a country.

You must be talking about the Welsh sheep that wonder over the border into England looking for lush grass and then there's pig smuggling to be dealt with on both sides of the UK border with Ireland, The Scots will be dying their hair blue, doning kilts and singing for Bonnie prince Charlie to go on a trade mission to Japan with an offering of cheap wholesale Manx cats to Tokyo resturants

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

Well, it's where, as experience has shown - if EU is dismantled - the WWIII will start.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

The EU was a good concept, but it was poorly executed. Too much meddling, too much restricting of sovereign rights, too many unneccesary "Elf and Safety" laws, and of course too much money being bled into it with nothing to show in return. It's not just Britain that has grown tired of this chain of failings. If the EU wants to remain intact, it's going to need to roll out sweeping reforms, and quickly. Humans aren't known for being patient after all. We'll need to see drastic improvements by the end of the year, otherwise this referendum will be forced back into existence. You can only push people so far before they snap after all. If the EU were to start making reforms now, I might consider voting to remain, but with the way things stand, I think it would be better all around to vote leave.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Whatever the vision at the beginning the EU has become a nightmare. A warped fascistic superstate bent on the self- destruction of its members cultures and their surplanting with islam. sounds crazy and it is.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

The UK went from a top dog in 1910 to an also-ran just 40 years later. A good reason for that was the massive costs incurred from two devastating wars fought on European soil in that period. The assorted nut-jobs mentioned above have none of this context in their puny minds. They have been fortunate to grow up during European peace and prosperity. This peace and prosperity is in large measure thanks to European cooperation, partly through the EU. The splits they want and the mindless nationalism they spout will lead us all back to 1914 or 1939. Sure, reforms are necessary but a Brexit will embolden nationalists not just in the EU but all over the world as the conclusion they will draw is that universalist supranational ideals are not viable.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@Moonraker:

" The splits they want and the mindless nationalism they spout will lead us all back to 1914 or 1939. "

Oh really? Like the "mindless nationalism" of Switzerland, Norway, or Iceland? No, WW1 was when the last empires (the Austrian-Hungarian, Prussian, Ottoman, British, clashed. The modern states are precisely the opposite of undemocratic, multinational empires. The EU on the other hand is precisely that --- a undemocratic, megalomanic empire building project without democratic legitimization. So that argument is exaclty backwards.

Note that I am not against the old EC free trade block. That was one thing. But since then, the EU has grown out of control and massively exceeded its sensible limits.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

I have read it again, Zaphod, and I can't see any mention of Switzerland, Norway, or Iceland. I personally can't see small, peripheral countries like Iceland and Norway starting wars in any case and Switzerland is good at avoiding conflict so perhaps your carefully selected nations are not the best examples of places from which mindless nationalism will emerge. Poland, Hungary, Austria, France and Germany, well, I am not so sure. And you seem to have avoided WWII and concentrated all your energy on WWI. Remember, even in WWI, it was the several preceding Balkan wars that were the entree to the conflagration, and it began there with a Serbian nationalist. I don't think any current EU member was overrun and incorporated into the structure. They all made a free choice to join. And for all it was a good choice. And for Europe as a whole. Peace is cheap when you have it but something you would pay any price for when you do not. I'd venture to say that in Britain's case, compared to the financial ruin caused by two European wars, it is worth whatever it has paid. Same for Germany and France who started the ball rolling to help put three ruinous wars behind them.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Brexit feeds European populists' ambitions of power

Populists? Alas, not a new one. Nor are their scapegoats.

How quickly we forget the "populists" (other -ists) of old.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Why would British want 100,000 immigrants a year?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Fears of world war should the EU monster fall apart are unfounded. Give humanity a little bit of credit. Democracies do not generally war against each other - the tendency is for undemocratic entities to be the problem in this regard and as zaphod has already pointed out this is just what the EU has become.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

The trouble is, Outrider, that the far right, such as that mentioned and vying for power above, is not well known for its democratic credentials, especially when it gets into power (see Hitler, Mussolini, Franco). And since the far right has no universal principles it can only fall back on nationalism to justify its tawdry existence. Let the nationalist monster loose and the outcome will not be modified by democracy. It will quickly do what it always does, foment fear, from which it alone vows to save us (For some foreplay, enjoy the current Brexit fear campaign). Democrats quickly get characterised as wimpy hindrances to the cheering crowds.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Moonraker, there wouldn't be an energized far right if the EU had exercised some sanity and dealt with the "refugee" crisis sanely, ie, not accepted huge numbers of people from an alien religion infamous for its non-assimilation in western societies. with the promise of more stupidity to come no wonder the populace is afraid and looking to the right. The most they get from the left is the promise of mosques in abundance.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Outrider.

So we should have them turned around at the coasts, etc? Sure you would claim how barbarian we are doing so.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Nationalism is a stupid thing, but will always arise when a government does not take care of it's OWN CITIZENS or puts the needs of foreign nationals before it's own citizens. . The EU went down the excessive progressive route with little to no discretion about how they did it at the cost of their natural born/indigenous citizens. Remember the article says if they don't leave, they may just cut the amount of control the EU can have over their nation.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Its ME

The question of why these "refugees" from the middle east head for Europe of all places hardly ever gets raised. Come on, Do a little research. Saudi Arabia hasn't accepted even one but instead bankrolls the construction of 200 mosques in Germany where the "refugees" will, true to form, turn on their benefactors and demand the host nation changes its culture and society to come more into line with the hellholes they fled. Starting to wonder if you're in a kafkaesque theatre of the absurd? Wait, theres more. The effect (predicted by many the moment the madness began) is that the native populations being inundated with the islamic immigrants begin to wake up and, except for the truly diehard "leftists", begin to realize that their elitist globalist govt officials, safe within their gated communities of fellow celebrities and filthy rich are, for whatever mysterious reason, destroying their country"s way of life and hard-won freedoms. What did anyone expect the result would be?? This needn't have happened if there had been compassion tempered with a modicum of wisdom. As a wise person once said, the road to hell is paved with "good intentions".

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Outrider.

My country us also struggling with refugees coming in via the Greek route.

We expected refugees as they been coming since the Gulf War but Libya, Syria are flooding us.

We are having over 22.000 asylum applications since the start of the year.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Brexit schmedxit.

England can either chose to be dominated by the US or Germany. Were I a Brit, I'd chose Germany, because I'd have more power.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

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