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May says Brexit deal defeat could topple British government

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By Dmitry ZAKS

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This is so bad I can barely watch.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

This is so bad I can barely watch.

Oh, come on. It is panto season.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

It is panto season.

"Oh no it isn't!" ;)

8 ( +8 / -0 )

May says Brexit deal defeat could topple British government

well I imagine that's what the opposition wants.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Posh boy Cameron should be dragged out of whichever hole he's been hiding in for the last two years, paraded through the streets and then forced to sort it out. The Tories own this horror show; it's their mess and they have to clean it up.

Meanwhile, open Democracy UK and Carole Cadwalladr continue to investigate where all the "dark money" for Brexit came from:

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/brexitinc/adam-ramsay/dark-money-investigations-what-we-ve-found-out-and-why-we-re-looking#

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/25/why-wont-nigel-farage-answer-my-brexit-questions

8 ( +12 / -4 )

I think it will fail. The numbers are very much against it. And since the E.U refuses to renegotiate anything, the circuit breaker will be another referendum.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

The British need to admit that their initial referendum was plagued by a lack of full disclosure and even misinformation, and that a sizable number of voters say that they would have voted differently if they knew what they do now.

The only sane recourse is to have a second referendum with the facts of British withdrawal from the EU: its economic impact on trade and commerce; political repercussions; and security concerns all clearly and plainly spelled out. May's attempts to keep this poorly-fashioned and non-seaworthy ship afloat will only end in disaster.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

Seems to be exactly what the arrogant and corrupt Eurocrats want. They can't afford to have the UK leave as that would destabilise their whole house of cards - if they leave it might give other countries the same idea. Especially if it went smoothly. So help to foment instability in the UK and if possible force another referendum with the fear ramped up to such a level that the Brits will be terrified of ever trying that awful independence thing again.

At the same time as making an example of the recalcitrant UK, all those less powerful continental states that were getting itchy feet better just sit down. It's just the political equivalent of the "Nice country ya got there. Wouldn't want anything to happen to it, would ya?"

There's nothing Eurocrats fear more than losing a hold on that precious gravy train of unaccountable power and money.

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

I know many of the people who are commenting on this article are not from the UK, so proabably don't know this, but you should watch this short clip of a speech given by Cameron before the referendum. It is only around 90 seconds long:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dj3xg3vYGo

In addition to this, the government spent £9 million of taxpayer's money to print and deliver a leafelt to almost every home in the UK. It stated the armageddon consequences of voting leave and had "once in a lifetime vote" written in big bold letters on it. All of the media, including every newspaper and every MP who campaigned for Remain said that there would be no opportunities to reverse the decision. So, when people say Brits didn't understand what the consequences of their vote would be, it's a LIE.

This whole situation has been engineered. The MPs always wanted a second referendum. However, after having "Project Fear", then "Project Hysteria" and finally "Project Armageddon", they've over-egged the pudding. People won't accept a second referendum. People have had enough.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Brexit is as real as a Tory unicorn, a creature spawned by right-wing fantasies of control and self-aggrandizement that could only end in a fudge because no satisfactory deal could ever be expected from the closed ranks of the EU block while on the British side the process of divorce was so complex that the brains, skills and manpower needed to "take back control" were far beyond the capacity of the light-weight numties in charge to supply. In the meantime, a goodly number of the addled Brexiteers have already passed away and those who survive surely realize that their beloved Brexit now on offer no longer passes the smell test, but has passed its use-by date. They have finally woken up to the bitter truth that were sold a pig in a poke by the porky-lovin' Bullingdon Boys. "Captain Mayhab" will surely go down unlamented, tied to her great-white-whale Brexit because she will have pay with her political demise for the mayhem caused by their electoral wheeze. On Tuesday I will be celebrating the sinking of the Tory-Brexit flagship with champagne and schadenfreude.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

Oh, come on. It is panto season.

Time to make that move to Australia, Jim. Not much panto here, political or otherwise, although we can certainly offer a fair amount of farce.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

The British need to admit that their initial referendum was plagued by a lack of full disclosure and even misinformation, and that a sizable number of voters say that they would have voted differently if they knew what they do now.

Exactly. I bet the NHS is still waiting for confirmation of the weekly 350 million pounds.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

@Pukey2

How on earth would the NHS get £350 million if the UK hasn't left the EU yet? May has also signed the UK up to end of 2020 with continued EU contributions, meaning that money can't be used towards the NHS till at least 2021.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

@BigYen

I’d say the handling of Brexit descended into a farce, but it never reached any level above a farce.

Send Pauline Hanson over to run for the Tory leadership. She’d improve the quality in the race.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Prime Minister Theresa May warned on Sunday that parliament's rejection of her Brexit deal could leave Britain in the European Union and bring the opposition Labour Party to power.

All the more reason to reject it then!

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The cost of leaflets and referendums is nothing compared to the economic consequences of getting this wrong.

Personally, I can't see Brexit happening now. The only possible one looks like a very weak, waste of time one brought in by the Labour Party to appease the original Referendum result. I can't see the British public electing enough "No Deal" Tories for that to pass Parliament. The electoral maths and public support simply aren't there. May's deal is well behind Remain and also behind No Deal with the public, so the Tories cannot fight a general election on it. If it is an option on a second referendum, Remain looks destined to win. May has said "Brexit means Brexit" for two years, but has failed to deliver anything desirable to Leavers. She gets praised for soldiering on, but it has been a disaster.

Even if the UK remains, a lot of business and EU institutions, to say nothing of good will, have been lost. There is no happy ending here.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Imagine a Corbyn led government!!!!!  Or even a Tory Government led by Boijo or one of the opther dissenting clowns!!

go with this deal and then hash out the details later.  Not like it isn't open to further amendment as time goes on.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

@kohakuebisu

Latest polls still show Leave winning. Deltapoll recently compared the options of Deal, No Deal and Remain:

http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/steve-fisher-condorcet

In a referendum between Remain or No Deal Brexit, 52% chose leave. This is higher than the polls before the referendum in 2016 (which were 48% Leave).

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The British need to admit that their initial referendum was plagued by a lack of full disclosure and even misinformation, and that a sizable number of voters say that they would have voted differently if they knew what they do now.

No we wouldn't. 17.4 million decided.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Not all that surprising it's taken her this long to grasp it, actually.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Given the unrest in France, it looks like UK will get out while the getting out is good. Same issues of a working class population ruled and lorded over by a well off elite

Referendums do an end-run around the scripted and planned elections and destroy the apple carts

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Seems to be exactly what the arrogant and corrupt Eurocrats want. They can't afford to have the UK leave as that would destabilise their whole house of cards - if they leave it might give other countries the same idea. Especially if it went smoothly. So help to foment instability in the UK and if possible force another referendum with the fear ramped up to such a level that the Brits will be terrified of ever trying that awful independence thing again.

At the same time as making an example of the recalcitrant UK, all those less powerful continental states that were getting itchy feet better just sit down.

LOL. As bad as eurocrats are - and they sure are- they have nothing to do with brexit. You've got to own it mate, the brexit fiasco is yours and only yours (provided you're a Brit which may not be the case as you seem to know very little about euros). UK pollies from both sides have been in 'omg what have we done' mode since brexit.

Am against a 2nd referendum (too risky, too undemocratic, too childish/amateurish etc) and I hope Britain can be successful outside the EU (although i have my doubts). syso guys.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Interdependence, forty or so years worth, there's the rub

Parliament views the 2016 referendum purely in terms as advisory .

Parliament sovereignty can simply negate, ignore its practical effects by nullifying, smothering the vote.

Hence a withdrawal agreement so reprehensible that a 2nd referendum, under the guise of a preferential voting methodology will seem glorious in comparison and would guarantee a return to the status quo.

May's deal is postponed or defeated, May attends December 13-14 EU summit, May returns with a offer to extend or even suspend Article 50, abracadabra, now you bexiit, now you don't.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I'm glad that America didn't have a Theresa May when we broke with Britain, I bet we would still be negotiating with Britain for our freedom.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

Johnson and the others better not think they can sacrifice the GFA in order to advance their tawdry careers.

Republicanism and loyalism haven't gone away, you know.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Prime Minister Theresa May warned on Sunday that parliament's rejection of her Brexit deal could leave Britain in the European Union and bring the opposition Labour Party to power.

That's not true. Jeremy Corbyn has proven himself to be highly untrustworthy, and very possibly a worse choice for PM than May, surprisingly. He's no better than Donald Trump, and we Brits know just how bad Trump is. We don't want our own version of that, so he won't get in. Labour will still be sidelined until someone competent takes the helm. May would be replaced by someone who genuinely does want to uphold the referendum results and give us the proper Exit we voted for. That'll leave us stuck in the EU for a little longer, unless it becomes abundantly clear that the EU won't back down on hurting us, in which case we'll take a No Deal exit.

May's team insists that her vision offers the cleanest break between the UK and EU that Brexit supporters can hope for at this late stage.

Wrong. Her vision is as far from what we hoped for as it's possible to be, because she's spent the past two years destroying Brexit in the hopes of bringing about a Second Referendum. She claims she doesn't want that, but she does. She's wanted that since before Cameron dropped the job on her. We can work out a better situation for leaving, just not with her in the way. We need to replace her with someone who was in favour of leaving, not opposed to it.

But Johnson used a column in the Sun on Sunday to argue that "the best way to get a great deal is to prepare for no deal" by rejecting May's draft.

He's got a point. The EU are playing games with us because they're confident we'll take whatever scraps they'll hand us. If we push for No Deal, prepare for that, set up a solid framework for it; then the EU will be forced to realise that they'd be better off working out a more favourable exit deal that keeps us on good terms with them, rather than pushing us so far away that it ends up sinking the Union. The EU is already shifting towards a collapse because the prinicple of it has been executed poorly. It's too dictatorial, and people across Europe don't like dictators. The EU knows that if we can prove that we're better off taking a No Deal than their insulting deal, other member countries will follow suit and break away too. We just don't have a PM with the guts to do that right now though.

Corbyn's party is hoping that failure in parliament on Tuesday will trigger a broader revolt that leads to early elections and returns Labour to power for the first time since 2010.

And I'm hoping it doesn't rain tomorrow, but hopes have a habit of being dashed. The chaos left behind by Blair and Brown has not been forgotten, or forgiven. It still leaves a bitter taste. Blair was bad, but Brown was just unfortunate to have a mess dropped on him. Corbyn on the other hand is worse even than Blair, and the British people know this. We want someone better than Blair, and better than Brown too. We won't tolerate Corbyn. We're tired of the Tories as well however, so it's more likely that the Liberal Democrats will take the reins, though I wouldn't rule out Boris Johnson snatching victory. He might come off as a clown, but he does know what he's talking about, and will push hard for a good leave deal. Unfortunately, British voters aren't the brightest bunch, generally speaking. We've made mistakes before, and blamed others for those mistakes, so we're liable to do so again.

European officials said they might be able to find a way to offer a token concession in Brussels that May could take back to London.

A "Token concession"? This attitude of the EU is exactly why millions of people voted to leave the EU. We're sick and tired of all these condescending remarks, these constant insults to us. Those snooty beaurocrats at the head of the EU Oligarchy have been looking down their noses at the working people while fanning themselves with their money for way too long, and it has to stop. I can suggest a place they can stick their "token concession."

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Corbyn on the other hand is worse even than Blair, and the British people know this.

Labour got over 40% of the popular vote in the last election. You mean apart from them?

the Liberal Democrats will take the reins

Nope.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

EU supporters will be pinning their hopes on a European Court of Justice ruling on Monday on Britain's right to unilaterally halt Brexit in its tracks.

The court has now ruled that Britain can unilaterally halt the Brexit process. I'm not sure that will make a difference to what unfolds, but I guess it makes it clearer what the options are.

A "Token concession"? This attitude of the EU is exactly why millions of people voted to leave the EU.

Was the phrase "token concession" actually used by any EU bureaucrat, or was it just the phrase used by the UK press to elicit exactly your reaction?

 Those snooty beaurocrats at the head of the EU Oligarchy have been looking down their noses at the working people while fanning themselves with their money for way too long

Some of us take the same attitude to the oligarchy in London.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

 British voters aren't the brightest bunch, generally speaking.

Very generally.

We're sick and tired of all these condescending remarks, these constant insults to us.

Like the first quote, generally speaking.

It's too dictatorial, and people across Europe don't like dictators. 

So, I presume you'll have no problem with the 6 counties leaving the Union in that case? It's about time seeing as Johnson and the other clowns are happy to put the GFA in jeopardy. Might as well get something positive out of it.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@Toasted

Are you from the Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland or anywhere else in the UK? If not, I am genuinely interested why you talk about the 6 counties so much.

I am in agreement with you that if the people of Northern Ireland as a majority want to have a referendum and want join the Republic, that's fine. But, if they don't, that also must be respected. Why is this issue very important to you if you aren't Irish/British?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@Tangerine,

One does not impart personal info online as it can lead to all manner of, let's say, annoyance. Having said that, it is something of personal interest. Not forgetting, of course, that Brexit does not just have an impact on the island of Great Britain. It affects the people of NI/6 counties. Something which a lot of commentators (not yourself) seem to ignore.

With the relative success of the GFA over the last 20 years, it's important to stress that people of both the main communities in the province are given a voice. The sheer ignorance on the part of Johnson, Rees Mogg and lately, Patel have to be addressed and countered.

The Republic of Ireland and the province will be impacted by the Brexit outcome, regardless of just how it plays out.

Whilst I embrace the concept of a united Ireland, I also fear a return to the days of murder and mayhem, regardless of the exact perpetrators behind it. And ignoring the dangers inherent in Brexit for the people of these islands is folly on the part of the politicians involved.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@Toasted

I appreciate the reply.

I doubt very much there'll be a return to the troubles, neither the North or Republic want that. You are quite right that their voices shouldn't be ignored. When things have become clearer over the next few weeks, the situation will be readily solved if all parties concerned want it to be.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

I understand the Tuesday commons vote has been postponed?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I understand the Tuesday commons vote has been postponed?

So it seems. Jimizo's panto comment is on the mark. Or would the Benny Hill theme tune be more appropriate?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Many thanks, albaleo my phones battery is on life support!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Tangerine2000:

How on earth would the NHS get £350 million if the UK hasn't left the EU yet? May has also signed the UK up to end of 2020 with continued EU contributions, meaning that money can't be used towards the NHS till at least 2021.

Yes, indeed, how can the NHS receive £350 million if the UK hasn't left the EU yet? I certainly didn't say they were or could receive that money now. Just asking, but did you read what I wrote properly?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@Pukey2

You wrote:

I bet the NHS is still waiting for confirmation of the weekly 350 million pounds.

You are implying that the Tory Brexiteers have reneged on that promise already or are going to. Two points about that.

It wasn't actually a promise because the words "We guarantee", "We promise to", "We will" or "We're going to" weren't written on the bus. The words "Let's", was. That doesn't constitute a promise.

But hey, let's pretend it was a promise. They still haven't yet had an opportunity to renege on it yet, as the money which they claimed could be used has already been allotted to the EU until at least 2021. If after the EU payments have stopped, and this 350 million towards the NHS doesn't materialize, then you could probably say they made false claims or were misleading, but you still couldn't say they broke a promise.

However, as it stands, Boris Johnson still says (which I think is still ill-advised) that the money can go towards the NHS once the UK stops paying contributions towards the EU. So, there is a possibility they could still do it, even if you think they won't.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

The current UK Government Political Party allowed the Brexit vote to dictate Policy, and have over the past 2 years driven the Country to the ground over it's indecisiveness. If they back track, then they should resign en-masse and one by one be forced to jump into the river Thames.

As a result of the Brexit vote, we've lost our sole money making engine - the City of London, and the major Manufacturing exporters dotted around elsewhere in the Country are in disarray not knowing whether they should be coming or going. Simply turning around and saying, "ok we've cancelled Brexit" wont work. It's already happened, long ago - the Damage has been done, and any attempt to return to "Europe" will be met with what you'd expect between Kids who break up with much disagreement between them, and when one side tries to get back again.... if the Tories try to back peddle, then they should resign, due to the calamity they've brought upon the Country - we've lost the City, we've lost main Industry trust, so we should loose them.

Sadly, for the Tory Government, its a matter of plough ahead and make the best of what you've started, or commit suicide for the Country, have the Labour Party take control and rejoin with Europe as a 2nd rate citizen (regardless as to what Lawyers say)... would you, as a European trust the UK anymore for not holding another vote in future to leave again as it suites them, and causing trouble within the whole of Europe ?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I still stand by my original stance, Brexit needs to be Hard, and we deal with the mess afterwards upon an equal footing. No messing around in between where one side looses more than the other. And if Ireland doesnt like it, join the British Commonwealth.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Theresa May's idea of a Brexit is akin to a dog asking for a longer leash.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

May cancelled the vote as she knew she would lose. An absolute disgrace. She and her government are currently being ripped apart by her own backbencers in the Commons. The Speaker is furious she did not ask permission of the Commons before withdrawing the vote. She can't stagger on much longer - General Election ahoy.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It needs to be out from Europe, that was already the decision.

And now second referendum? So if the BREMAIN wins, it's 1 - 1, then there should be another/final referendum in few years.

All these deals making too complicated for their own citizens, therefore, just make it BREXIT. The end of story.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@BigYen

Send Pauline Hanson over to run for the Tory leadership. She’d improve the quality in the race.

On the condition she can never, ever come back! Awesome!

I look forward to Boris Johnson as the next Prime Minister! Huzzah!

Oh its going to be hilarious! He is good for a laugh and will certainly bring a bit more Britishness to the role of PM.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

And if Ireland doesnt like it, join the British Commonwealth.

Lol agus tiocfaidh ar la, while we're playing silly beggars.

Must be tough contemplating a unified Ireland for all.

Thing is, the mandarins in Westminster don't give a damn about the people of Ireland, north and south.

It's up to the people now.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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