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Britain formally notifies EU of withdrawal

64 Comments
By JILL LAWLESS

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64 Comments
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The gloves are finally off. Now we'll see the real meaning of European fraternity...or not, as the case may well be.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Watch the Tories rip the spine out of UK workers. The race to the bottom will gather pace from here.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Good luck to you UK.

This is a sad divorce.

Instead of working together to fix problems Europe has, you decided to quit on us.

I hope this is a wake up call for other members to work together and not fall for narrow nationalistic views.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

It's too bad but it was inevitable. Had the economic success of the marriage also spread to those outside of major cities Brexit wouldn't have won in the first place. Now UK must look to help its own citizens and not sell them out to Europe to make a buck, but instead work together as an actual nation. That's the new opportunity

1 ( +5 / -4 )

I hope this is a wake up call for other members to work together and not fall for narrow nationalistic views.

It's a wake up call alright. To the realization that you can fool some people some of the time but not all people all the time!! Independence is not a crutch!! It's high time this failed system is dismantled to make way for something that will work for the common man!!

1 ( +7 / -6 )

sf2k: this is not the 19th century anymore. UK will have to compete hard against others.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Immediately after the referendum I remember one pollster crunched the numbers and calculated the exact day that enough of the older Leave voters will have died off to put the much younger Remain supporters in the majority. I don't remember the exact date but it was shockingly soon. Something like 6-8 years if I'm not mistaken. Unfortunately, if the UK ever does rejoin the EU as a new member many of the special concessions won't be available again (such as the Euro and Schengen opt-outs).

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Brexit has caused a massive rift in the UK - there is more mistrust, disharmony, hate and argument then we've had for many generations. It is also a real threat to the Union. Yet May talks rubbish about as all being together and how good this all is for the UK, how she can say this with a straight face I do not know.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Piotr Wierzbicki, a Polish engineer flying to London from Warsaw airport, said the British “shot themselves in the foot” by voting to leave the EU,

Immigration is one issue, but this Brexit issue is an English more than a 'British' problem. Let the intra-(dis)United Kingdom eye-gauging begin.

And anyway, if the Costa del Sol becomes an immigration queue too far, there is always Blackpool.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

@TumbleDry

sf2k: this is not the 19th century anymore. UK will have to compete hard against others.

what are you talking about? The banks making huge profits while the poor in the country side watch? They got a chance to vote them out, and did. Competition wasn't against their fellow citizens

No, for better or worse, UK will have to support its own citizens first and be a strong country again. Thankfully this is possible having seen it before. This time however it can't be off the backs of the poor. It's appropriate medicine for some of the population that need it

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Instead of working together to fix problems Europe has, you decided to quit on us.

BS! While im on the bench if brexit is good or not (dont know enough information to decide), its definitely the European Union that needs to be reformed. Too much fraud and a lot of useless money going in there and not being spent on projects it need spending on.

Imo perhaps the countries should fix themselves first before helping others.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Papagiulio: strong words... This is a concerted effort with all members as it benefits all Europe.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

With thousands of foreigners without language skills suddenly invade communities without adequate resources then something had to be done. Brexit may or may not be the best way but it is a lot better than what might have occurred in things hadn't come to a referendum

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Had the economic success of the marriage also spread to those outside of major cities Brexit wouldn't have won in the first place

and the puzzling

The banks making huge profits while the poor in the country side watch?

Even the poorest parts of Scotland voted Remain. Scots had originally been against EU membership in 1972, but later saw how the EU, with its regional development support, softened the worst excesses of Tory government.

The 'Home Counties' mentality and rigid centralization of the UK economy wasn't an EU construct. Wales, Cornwall and Britain's most deprived areas which were the net beneficiaries of EU aid, were also worst affected by Tory govt. austerity.

The angry barked up a wrong tree shown them by neoliberals Tories and non-dom press barons.

Yet they'll go back again and again to that tree, marking it with red, white and blue pish (to borrow from the Bard), and find solace in celebrating the day they taught the tree who was boss.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Instead of working together to fix problems Europe has, you decided to quit on us.

So easy to say that from your armchair. They have been trying to "fix" this as long as I have been alive.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

May’s assertion that without a good deal, “our cooperation in the fight against crime and terrorism would be weakened.”

Here, before negotiations even begin, is an example of the tin-eared ineptness and cack-handed approach of the Conservatives to the withdrawal talks. May threatens to withdraw cooperation in fighting crime and terrorism if she doesn't get her way. Is she saying that if the UK knew of plans to attack Paris the information would not be shared with the French, because that's how Europeans will interpret those statements in her letter.

Sharing of intelligence information should continue regardless of how the withdrawal negotiations proceed. Anyone who thinks they can gain leverage from threatening to withhold such information is a fool. Theresa May has shown in writing that she is a fool, as are the rest of her team of halfwits.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

I'm still waiting for the 300-odd million quid a week to go into the NHS. One of the purveyors of this lie was the mop-headed mound of blubber grinning manically behind May as she delivered her drivel to the Commons yesterday.

Expect the word 'competitive' to get thrown around a lot in the coming months as this shower 'delivers'.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Watching this on the news, I got the vibe that the E.U. President was handed a Dear John letter.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Making London come down a peg or six for the greater good of the surrounding UK is a good day

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

Making London come down a peg or six for the greater good of the surrounding UK is a good day

Just how exactly is Brexit doing that?

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Excellent. Getting away from the 'un-elected' EU dictatorship could not happen fast enough. This is the beginning of the end for the EU. Others will probably follow the UK's lead.

The (current and future) UK government parties have a lot to do now, and i'm sure there will be plenty of ups and downs along the way. But I for one am well chuffed over an independently governed future. Bring it on :)

Stop bitching and Carry-On :)

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

Reckon how Brits and EU negotiate the 60 billion euros exit bill (the pound being so volatile, 50 billion pounds may soon be worth much less than it is today as the pound may soon par the euro) will determine whether we get a hard or softer brexit. The EU have already threatened to sue Britain should they refuse to pay its bill.

First post EU test for May and her mates.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

"Making London come down a peg or six for the greater good of the surrounding UK is a good day"

"Just how exactly is Brexit doing that?"

I was thinking the same thing. Many of the people in my home city, a city defaced by Thatcherism and Tory austerity, voted remain partly to soften further abuses at the hands of these moral degenerates.

I'd love to hear how Brexit will benefit those outside London. It would cheer me up no end.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Precisely, Jimizo.

The London élites can consolidate their power, and - freed from EU worker protections - have carte blanche to deliver a neoliberal paradise overflowing with opportunities (for themselves, that is).

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Germany rules over Europe again

0 ( +3 / -3 )

From a Brit: So all those Land Of Hope And Glory flag wavers can rejoice in their great independence from the European Union. And Nigel 'has not actually been elected as an MP in the UK' Farage can be patted on the back as he guzzles his lunchtime bottle of bordeaux and roast beef. And the Tories can turn their dreams of a tax-free haven for the rich into reality, all the while slashing public spending on health, education, and public transport.

But here's the important question:-

Why did Cameron and now May have to completely sever their links and divorce from the EU? With the huge economic threat that goes with it. Why couldn't a supposedly intelligent and educated government go to Brussels and say 'you need us, we need you, let's renegotiate our EU terms'?

And 52%/ 48% is not exactly a political landslide is it? The Brexit vote was basically a split decision.

To evidence just how uninformed and useless the electorate are, Nigel Farage has continued to draw his Brussels MEP salary while telling the whole world what a waste of time and money the Brussels Parliament is.!

3 ( +4 / -1 )

So when will the Scott's join Europe?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Why did Cameron and now May have to completely sever their links and divorce from the EU? With the huge economic threat that goes with it. Why couldn't a supposedly intelligent and educated government go to Brussels and say 'you need us, we need you, let's renegotiate our EU terms'?

The European Commission foreclosed that option. They said they wouldn't be blackmailed by a 'No' vote to renegotiate Britain's membership. They handed Cameron what they were willing to concede, and said 'take it or leave (it)'. Cameron gave that decision to the people.

And 52%/ 48% is not exactly a political landslide is it? The Brexit vote was basically a split decision.

Would you say that if the decision had been decided in the reverse by those numbers? If you would, good on you. But many people supporting 'remain' would take it as decisive if it had been the case.

The EU have already threatened to sue Britain should they refuse to pay its bill.

To the International Court of Justice, whose jurisdiction and decisions are non-binding. If all other talks fail the EU has no recourse to collect.

I'm still waiting for the 300-odd million quid a week to go into the NHS.

That promise wasn't made by the Government, so the Government has no obligation to deliver it. More the fool who voted for a campaign slogan.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

...snowflake liberals used to something for their blind obedience seem to be the only replies here reflecting an imagined negative. Great Britain will again regain world status, but not as a crutch, and it's applied workers investors and citizenry will prosper... with Independent pride.

God Save the Queen!

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

EU and UK Politicians didn't waste any time in climbing out the prams, and playpens, political throwing hissy fits and temper tantrums. This only the start, the uncontrolled screaming and serious abuse of the furniture and office equipment is yet to come.

For the EU, the budget is of paramount importance. There is little doubt, politically, 18 odd billion Euros is a huge short fall. And a number of member states have already stated they will not countenance increasing payments to meet that shortfall. Added to the prospect of the current US administration election threats - Additional trade barriers, tariffs, and import restrictions. Changes to the North American Free Trade Agreement could well be imminent.

Then Greece again is only a month away from finally having to find another direction to kick that can because the EU has run out of road. Italian banks and government have still to produce a clear process to find funding to deal with €360 billion of bad loans, equal to one fifth of the countries GDP. And there is those Elections to come, that's democracy for you.

These are the realities, Eurostat figures state clearly the UK is a shade under 20 percent of the single market.

The most obvious course of action to limit the political punch and Judy getting totally out of control is to put EU membership under the microscope, and come up with a means to an end that deals or even solves some or all Europe's economic and political problems in one go.

EU Pressures Greece to Resolve Issues as New Debt Crisis Looms.....

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-03-20/greece-edges-toward-another-crisis-as-bailout-quarrel-persists

EU position in world trade.....

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/eu-position-in-world-trade/index_en.htm

If M3, just 30 percent ish of 18 to 24 years old eligible to voted turn up to a polling booth, in both the independence referendum and general election......?? Now there a thought?!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Congratulations to the good people of the UK! But as divorces often go, this one is likely to be very messy. The enemies of freedom are many, and many are your own countrymen. Fight the Socialists with all your might!

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

The European Commission foreclosed that option. They said they wouldn't be blackmailed by a 'No' vote to renegotiate Britain's membership. They handed Cameron what they were willing to concede, and said 'take it or leave (it)'. Cameron gave that decision to the people.

Why hold a referendum with an immediate in or out? Why not hold a referendum to take to Brussels to say 'look, the vote is Brexit so now its time to renegotiate or we leave'?

Would you say that if the decision had been decided in the reverse by those numbers? If you would, good on you. But many people supporting 'remain' would take it as decisive if it had been the case.

17.4M voted Brexit. But how can you totally disregard the 16.1M who wanted to Remain? It's a grocers 50/50. How can you totally disregard that high a proportion of the vote?

God Save the Queen!

Why does God have to save the richest landowner in the UK? Why not ask God to save your family and children?

Fight the Socialists with all your might!

What does this have to do with the socialists? It's about keeping the economy strong enough to support jobs and businesses. It's about not walking away from your nearest trading neighbours who form a powerful trade block. It's about trying to repair the complete mess that the UK has been in for years.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

So, anyone opposed to Brexit is a liberal, a socialist, (despite evidence that many conservatives, including the PM, backed Remain), a snowflake, a Remoaner, a bitching enemy of freedom, even.

Yet the best case for Brexit seems to be that it's an opportunity to raise a defiant index and middle finger to the elites in that London.

This rabbit hole we've stumbled down gets curiouser and curiouser...

5 ( +5 / -0 )

There is no actual benefit to be had for any one country exiting the EU. Maybe twenty five years ago or before political union when just twelve members. After 44 years of political integration. Divorce is not necessarily the correct description of EU - UK separation.

Although German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel mentions divorce, he may well be echoing the thoughts all 27 member states when stating...

“Bad feelings are understandable. For many it is difficult to understand, especially in these turbulent times, how anyone can believe they would be better off alone. But this can’t be the basis for defining our future relationship. Britain remains our neighbour, like the European Union for the British, the stale-sounding sentence in private matters of ‘let’s stay friends’ after a divorce is therefore right in this case.”

The UK or at least 17 or so million just cannot imagine the EU as family, Sigmar Gabriel contrasts EU membership/relationship as the difference between friendship and family.

For the 52%, age and life experiences could well have played a part, never really moving past Johnny foreigner. I don't say that in a disparaging way. The common market is a term I hear allot. And I would submit, the common market, is as far the relationship should have progressed, for many that voted to leave.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Well said Sense and Jim.

The Brexit vote was never a vote against the EU anyway. It was a UKIP-led zingoistic vote against anymore muslim immigration. And the only EU point for the voters was to stop anymore Polish or Romanian immigration. Nothing else counted for the 17M.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Why hold a referendum with an immediate in or out? Why not hold a referendum to take to Brussels to say 'look, the vote is Brexit so now its time to renegotiate or we leave'?

The European Union doesn't negotiate. Or did you miss the punitive measures Greece had to accept after they said 'no' in their referendum and the EU machinery cut them off financially until they surrendered? What Cameron offered was the renegotiation, and the Commission said take it or get out. Tell me, what further opportunity was there?

But how can you totally disregard the 16.1M who wanted to Remain?

In a binary choice, the losers are going to be unhappy. You can feel slighted and helpless, and get nothing, or accept the outcome and try to influence the severity of Brexit when it happens. And I bet remainers would have told leavers to sit down, be quiet and accept 'the mandate' if they had one. The will of the people only matters when the 'right side of history' is chosen after all.

The Brexit vote was never a vote against the EU anyway. It was a UKIP-led zingoistic vote against anymore muslim immigration. And the only EU point for the voters was to stop anymore Polish or Romanian immigration. Nothing else counted for the 17M.

That's the attitude that caused Brexit and got Trump elected. Telling people that they're xenophobes and racists because the have concerns about the integrity of their borders just alienates them from your better arguments. It can't be about the right to screen entrants and control the flow to what society can handle - Leavers must want a fortress wall on the Dover cliffs, totally ignoring the call for increased immigration from Commonwealth states like India and Pakistan to make up the loss of EU migrants. And it's certainly an arrogant attitude for people like me who are willing to have free movement if it meant staying in the EEA, but don't want to be subject to a corrupt, centralizing force that wants to be the single government on a continent erased of nation states.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@itsonlyrockandroll

The common market is a term I hear allot. And I would submit, the common market, is as far the relationship should have progressed, for many that voted to leave.

That is exactly where it should have remained, a common market.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

But Steven Schulz, your argument in your last paragraph makes sense. And there is no perfect solution so the bottom line is, do you want to completely put border walls up just to ease immigration, or do you want freedom of movement and have to pay for many regulations that you dont want in the union? Youre not going to get the perfect solution and I and probably you would opt for the freedom of movement.

Immigration was never an economic issue in the UK. Its a social integration issue. Immigration has boosted the tax pot and filled jobs that the Brits dont want.

And as for a terrorism risk caused by open EU borders? Please. There never was an open UK border force and any terrorism of note has been carried out by our own - Westminster, 7/7, the IRA.

The United Kingdom is not Greece. It is not bankrupt. Of course the EU told the Greeks to go and do one. There was no way the EU would talk in a similar tone if Cameron had come to Brussels with a Brexit vote and said renegotiate now.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

That UK leaves EU, it's their choice. But the attitude of May is absolutely unacceptable.

In security terms a failure to reach agreement would mean our cooperation in the fight against crime and terrorism would be weakened.

So she threatens EU countries. I think we should immediately simply refuse to negociate, reinforce coast security.

So when will the Scott's join Europe?

They are in. The Hadrian wall just needs a refreshing.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

So she threatens EU countries. I think we should immediately simply refuse to negotiate, reinforce coast security.

She didn't threaten, merely pointed out a fact. We don't want a fight, but if reports are to be believed, the EU do. Some of them anyway.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@Jimizo

"One of the purveyors of this lie...."

How do you know it was a lie? Brexit hasnt started yet. What's to stop a sovereign govt from allocating its budget in ways it sees fit?

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

I'm still waiting for the 300-odd million quid a week to go into the NHS.

I suggest you go back to school for reading classes. That wasn't written anywhere, not even on the bus. There were 2 statements:

We send the EU 350 Million a week........ let's fund our NHS instead

Remoaners love to link the 2, because it suits their whining. Nowhere does it say let's give all 350 million to the NHS. Even if it did, no money can be redirected until we stop paying the shysters in Brussels, in 2 years as of yesterday.

I have 2kg of cheese in my fridge...... I will go to the park tomorrow to feed the ducks

Question, exactly what food will I feed to the ducks?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

How do you know it was a lie?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/10/brexit-camp-abandons-350-million-pound-nhs-pledge

Yes, I know it's the Guardian. But here's Murdoch, too:

http://news.sky.com/story/backtrack-on-give-nhs-163350m-eu-money-promise-10325543

Even the Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/nigel-farage-350-million-pledge-to-fund-the-nhs-was-a-mistake/

But it wasn't Nigel's fault (nothing ever is), nor BoJo's nor Gove's fault, apparently. Damn bus driver!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The common market is a term I hear allot. And I would submit, the common market, is as far the relationship should have progressed, for many that voted to leave.

That is exactly where it should have remained, a common market

It sounds good, but a not very helpful unless we can define precisely what the common market is and where it ends. Is the borderless Schengen zone part of the common market, or should Italy be allowed to understaff it's checkpoints again to hold up foreign lorries? Is the Euro part of the common market or should we go back to national currency wars to counter other countries competitiveness? Is Free Movement of Labour part of the single market, or should we lock workers in eastern Europe so that all the low wage industries can relocate there (Like China and Mexico) rather than having workers relocate to the existing factories in the west? Is environmental regulation part of the common market, or should we let some EU countries gain a competitive advantage by turning themselves into a toxic wasteland? Saying we should have stopped at the single market is about as precise as saying we should have stopped when it was already 'good'. Very subjective.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Hi Gobshite,M3M3M3, My English senior family members, Grand Mother and father refer to the Common Market too. Could I ask if either of you or anyone else for that matter, amongst the voting public in the referendum of June 1975?

if so, Is it your opinion that Edward Heath mislead the electorate about sovereignty?

1975: UK embraces Europe in referendum....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/6/newsid_2499000/2499297.stm

1 ( +1 / -0 )

“I voted for Brexit and today is the day that vote starts to count,” said Charles Goodacre, a former taxi driver, in the northern England city of Sunderland. “Things have been bad round here for a while and we needed a change.”

Leaving the EU will not make any difference to the prosperity of towns and cities. It won't solve any problems at all, unless the 'pretty bad' he's on about are the number of EU members taking jobs etc...

'Taking back control' won't build factories or allow businesses to flourish, for example. It won't fix the NHS, it won't put more police on the streets of the cities....

We won't become a Utopia, no matter how Theresa May spins it.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Hi Gobshite,M3M3M3, My English senior family members, Grand Mother and father refer to the Common Market too. Could I ask if either of you or anyone else for that matter, amongst the voting public in the referendum of June 1975?

The main issue is that the EU we have now bares no resemblance to the common market supported in the referendum of 1975. I would quite happily support a common market, but the free movement, EU court supremacy, failing Euro currency are all signs that the EU is failing. Fortunately the UK already refused the Euro, the others were introduced without asking the public. Of course the Irish were asked, twice as their first answer wasn't correct, so were the French whose decision was ignored. That's the way the EU works, directed by people who are not elected, and can not be removed.

To answer your question, no I wasn't old enough to vote in 1975.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@sensenotsocommon

You beat me to it. I don't know what garbage Gobshite has been reading, but it must be even worse than the Telegraph. Theresa May herself said £350 million quid a week going to the NHS is crap. I'd say 'lie' is the correct word here.

@Gobshite

Nothing wrong with my reading. Your feeding the ducks idea is very sweet but you strike me as a Tory - you would probably give them sod all and tell them to waddle off to a food bank.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Nowhere does it say let's give all 350 million to the NHS

Save it for the uninsured in the Brexitannia the neoliberals want.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@Jimizo

"let's fund our NHS instead"

Indeed, that's not what I'd call a "pledge." When did "Let's do so and so" become an ironclad promise? Ah, when remoaners need to gain some political mileage. The bus slogan was a suggestion, and a vague one at that.

"Watch the Tories rip the spine out of UK workers."

That's been going on already for over the past decade. Real wages for British workers have been on a steady decline since 2004, ever since EU enlargement. Undercutting local labor by relying on a flood of cheap foreign labor is the quintessential "race to the bottom" (your words)....and you can thank the "free movement of labor" for that.

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/real-wages-and-living-standards-the-latest-uk-evidence/

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@itsonlyrocknroll

Is it your opinion that Edward Heath mislead the electorate about sovereignty?

I have to admit that I'm not entirely up to speed on everything Heath promised, but surely the fact that Britain is now pulling out in accordance with its own wishes is proof that national sovereignty has always resided in the British Parliament? Unfortunately, sovereignty has become a rather loosely defined term these days. If you voluntarily give someone permission to make rules on your behalf and you agree to be bound by those rules (even if you disagree with them), I think that is an excercise of sovereignty in the same way that it would be if you decided to leave domestic rule making to your own civil servants. You are free to change your mind at any time, as the UK has done.

As a continental European I certainly wasn't around (or old enough to vote) during the first UK referendum, but I am old enough to vividly remember what Europe used to be like. Specifically, all the petty schemes that countries would get up to when the rules were not in place. I remember how it felt to wait and wait endlessly when crossing a national border by train before Schengen. I remember how difficult is was to plan or do business without the Euro. I remember how many tens of thousands of Eastern Europeans were already coming even in the 1970s and 80s, except they were called Aussiedler and handed German passports the minute they crossed into West Germany. And more recently I remember how it felt to be locked out of my London flat (before free movement) only to have a British locksmith tell me it would cost £250 and he might be able to show up next Tuesday,.. but no promises.

One of the biggest problems for the EU is that this life is becoming a distant memory for some and people don't appreciate the progress we've made. There are no documentaries on Youtube to remind us what life was like before the EU. Of course, Britain has always been on the periphery so it's a bit of a special case, but I think it will experience many pre-EU problems that we don't even remember and didn't get much mention during the referendum.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Yep, just triple-checked checked it. Boris Johnson standing in front of a poster which reads:

"Let's give our NHS the £350 million the EU takes every week"

No 'some of the' no 'part of the' no 'most of the'. Just plain old 'the'.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Thank you Gobshite, M3M3M3, my Grandfather voted in 1975, then and now, he could never give up sovereignty.At least in his mind he never forgave continental Europe for WW2. I think that mindset lives with many UK pensioners especially at the ballot box. When the opportunity presented itself on 23rd June last, they mobilized there vote. The18 to 24 age group took the status quo for granted.

With the benefit of hindsight, it was one important element Article 121(1) known as the Maastricht criteria that could have well set a chain of events into motion.

Introducing the Euro: convergence criteria....

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=URISERV%3Al25014

I think these three experts state a neutral and objective assessment of past, present, and future challenges facing UK/EU,and Briexit negotiations. Once the anger and obvious disappointment subsides, events that are totally out of the control of UK/EU political leaders will shape Europe's future.

All the media drama, the preposterous spectacle of a letter being delivered to Tusk yesterday, thank you and goodbye, it all reeks of some perverse form of entertainment, so utterly demeaning rather than informative.

Brexit negotiations: what does Europe want?....... UCL European Institute Executive Director, Uta Staiger.

https://ucl-brexit.blog/2017/03/29/brexit-negotiations-what-does-europe-want/

UK trade prospects after Brexit - PwC....... Andrew Sentance, Senior Economic Adviser at PwC

https://www.pwc.co.uk/economic-services/ukeo/ukeo-nov16-trade-prospects-after-brexit.pdf

The European Union: Current Challenges and Future Prospects........ Kristin Archick Specialist in European Affairs/Congressional research service

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R44249.pdf

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@JeffLee

I was just pointing out to Gobshite that the poster clearly did say to give all the £350 million to the NHS. He/she's been trying to play hide the ball with this.

All your points are very valid and you talk a lot of sense on economic and financial issues. If you look at my posts, my beef isn't so much with the Brexit, it's with the rapacious government that will screw workers further into the ground and let non-Tory voting areas rot even further now it's fully off the leash. I'm from a place defaced by these degenerates and I truly fear for the future of my home city and places like it. A very parochial argument I know, but I saw the EU as life support.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Thanks, Jimizo.

Here's the link. Once again from Murdoch's Sky News.

http://news.sky.com/story/backtrack-on-give-nhs-163350m-eu-money-promise-10325543

Your serve, Gobshite.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

That's been going on already for over the past decade. Real wages for British workers have been on a steady decline since 2004, ever since EU enlargement. Undercutting local labor by relying on a flood of cheap foreign labor is the quintessential "race to the bottom" (your words)....and you can thank the "free movement of labor" for that.

As always, you need to be careful with statistics. There is no indication that wages for the vast majority of native Brits have actually dropped, only that the average statistical wage has been dragged down. This is not surprising when you consider how low wage service jobs in the UK have skyrocketed since 2004. Many of these jobs simply didn't exist prior to EU enlargement and will cease to be viable if cheap labour comes to an end.

To illustrate the point, imagine a village of 10 people each earn £10,000. If a fruit packing factory moves into the village with an additional 10 people making only £5000, then the average wage will have dropped by 25%. However, this tells us nothing about the wages of the original inhabitants.

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The loss of a major member is destabilizing for the EU

Speaking in Berlin. German Chancellor Angela Merkel said Germany and other EU states “certainly did not wish for this day, because we are losing a strong and important member state.”

Now all of the £ paid into the EU by the UK has to be born by France and Germany and their people will not like that.

Poland has not started using the euro yet, but that was one of the things they signed up for when joining.

Greece is still struggling.

Italy is going through hardships, which might be eased if they wern't using the euro as they could then set their own tax rates etc.

EU is already being destabled by other factors and the UK leaving will make things worse.

Scotland wants another vote for independence but the last time there was a vote, the EU said that they would have to apply for EU membership and would not have any of the deals the UK had. So if they do vote to leave the UK, they would be joining the EU as a lesser member. But they would not have to worry about what currency to use, as they would have to use the euro as part of their joining the EU.

But there was a hint of steel in May’s assertion that without a good deal, “our cooperation in the fight against crime and terrorism would be weakened.” That could be seen by some in Europe as a threat to withdraw British security cooperation if the U.K. does not get its way

Then France could then say to the UK to move its custom officers back to the other side of the tunnel. That would increase the number of stowaways getting into the UK.

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Why did Cameron and now May have to completely sever their links and divorce from the EU? With the huge economic threat that goes with it. Why couldn't a supposedly intelligent and educated government go to Brussels and say 'you need us, we need you, let's renegotiate our EU terms'?

So Britain goes cap in hand to an elitist old boys club that has only its own best inerests at heart and tries to negotiate for terms that, as one of its founding members, Britain should already be enjoying? On what level does that make any sense at all? Once there wasn't an EU, then there was and soon - God willing - there won't be again. The memory of wine lakes and butter mountains will finally be expunged.

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The memory of wine lakes and butter mountains will finally be expunged.

To be replaced with Zinfandel and Cheez Whiz

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from web page

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/586742/European-Union-barmy-decisions-rules-regulations-Britain-EU

REVEALED: The EU's top ten pointless decisions the UK can now get rid of

Cucumbers and bananas should not be bendy

International ridicule erupted when the EU stated that all bananas must be "free of abnormal curvature".

Under the rules, cucumbers were to be "practically straight" and bent by a gradient of no more than 1/10.

It's illegal to eat your pet horse

In 2009 the EU introduced a law which suggested it was illegal to eat "pet" horses after staggering figures revealed that around two million pet horses are eaten across the EU each year. Just remember it's okay to be so hungry you could eat a horse - as long as you don't own it

Water does NOT prevent dehydration

In 2011 they passed a law, which claimed scientists had found no evidence to suggest drinking water stopped dehydration

Prunes will NOT fight your bowel problems

Meddling legislators made it illegal for prunes to be sold as a super food that acts as a laxative.

And after a thorough investigation, the EU ruled: "The evidence provided is insufficient to establish a cause and effect relationship between the consumption of dried plums of 'prune' cultivars and maintenance of normal bowel function"

Turnips are NOT swede

In 2010 the EU decided to make sure one and all knew the difference between a turnip and a swede.

Now supermarkets are encouraged to avoid confusion when labelling both vegetables.

And this is because locals in Cornwall often refer to their swedes as turnips

Diabetics should be BANNED from the roads

Up to one million drivers faced losing their driving licenses - because harsh EU experts deemed people with diabetes "unfit" to drive.

The illogical rules were never enforced but ridiculed and mocked widely back in 2010.

Eggs CANNOT be sold by the dozen

Fury erupted when shopkeepers were told all food must be weighed and sold by the kilo - instead of the number contained in the packet back in 2010.

And even though British shoppers can still buy a dozen of eggs, it is now priced based wholly on the weight.

Washing up gloves must be able to handle DETERGENTS

The price of marigolds and oven gloves soared when the EU imposed rigorous testing on these household products to stop people being injured.

Bonkers Brussels deemed it to be important that washing gloves could withstand standard kitchen detergents and oven gloves underwent tests to ensure they could cope under the pressure of 200c heat.

Super vacuum cleaners BANNED

It was as though the British way of life was under threat when the EU looked to target the nation's kettles, toasters and even lawnmowers.

Their plans to erode the lifestyle choices of ordinary people were followed by the banning of the powerful vacuum cleaner.

In 2014 vacuum cleaners, which had motors above the EU limit of 1,600 watts had to go.

EU in a JAM over preserves

Barmy EU regulators stopped sellers using the word 'jam' on their products if the sugar content was more than 60 per cent.

Instead anything containing less thad to be called a "fruit spread", while a low sugar jam with less than 50 per cent of sugar was named a "conserve".

But lawmakers got themselves out of the sticky situation by relaxing these laws in 2013.

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Azzprin: The Daily Express writes a lot of nonsense and outright lies. Let's pick a few of your examples.

It's illegal to eat your pet horse

In 2009 the EU introduced a law which suggested it was illegal to eat "pet" horses

What kind of law "suggests" that something is illegal? Either it is legal or it isn't. Note that there is no reference to the "law" in question (because it doesn't exist).

Water does NOT prevent dehydration

In 2011 they passed a law, which claimed scientists had found no evidence to suggest drinking water stopped dehydration

Again, no reference to any "law" because, again, it doesn't exist. Also, real laws don't make "claims".

Eggs CANNOT be sold by the dozen

Fury erupted when shopkeepers were told all food must be weighed and sold by the kilo - instead of the number contained in the packet back in 2010.

And even though British shoppers can still buy a dozen of eggs, it is now priced based wholly on the weight.

The article first claims eggs CANNOT be sold by the dozen, then concedes that they are sold by the dozen. A fact that a visit to any supermarket would confirm. Also, eggs are not priced based wholly on the weight: in the UK eggs have always been sold by size and still are. Thus, the price is correlated with the weight to some extent (and always has been).

I could go on, but I've wasted enough time with the meaningless drivel published by the Express. I suggest you read something else.

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So Britain goes cap in hand to an elitist old boys club that has only its own best inerests at heart and tries to negotiate for terms that, as one of its founding members, Britain should already be enjoying?

An elitist old boys club - like Eton school? Or the Bullingdon Club at Oxford? Alma maters of Cameron, Osborne, and Johnson.

Only its own interests at heart - like the privatisation of public infrastructure? Osbornes and Camerons political retirement speaking circuit fees maybe?

Britain should already be enjoying - now we're talking. Like a decent health system? Good public transport? Decent education for our children?

The previous and current British government/ establishment have already beaten the EU to it..

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You know what's the best way to solve this problem? Talk about Gibraltar.

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I always thought the Brits would weasel out of leaving the EU somehow. Glade they are reclaiming more of their independence. The world has changed and nations need to change with the times.

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