British ex-con, 52, carried out Westminster attack; IS claims responsibility

Britain has so many potential Jihadis there is no way the police, with their limited resources, can put a finger on every single one.

Assault, weapons possession and public order offenses don't sound out of line for a future Jihadi, if you ask me.

Assault, weapons possession and public order offenses don't sound out of line for a future Jihadi, if you ask me.

Nonsense. Assault can range from spitting on a person to beating them up. Weapons possession can be for a stick and public order offenses are usually alcohol related.

Stop being a drama queen.

Assault, weapons possession and public order offenses don't sound out of line for a future Jihadi, if you ask me.

Not a prerequisite, precursor or defining factor in any way whatsoever.

"Not a prerequisite, precursor or defining factor in any way whatsoever."

Weapons possession? Nah, course not. Why would an aspiring terrorist ever want to have access to weapons.

“Those evil and tortured individuals who try to destroy our shared way of life will never succeed,” Mayor Sadiq Khan told the crowd.

Listening, Nigel?

IS said through its Aamaq News Agency that the London attacker — whom it did not name — was “a soldier of the Islamic State” who “carried out the operation in response to calls for targeting citizens of the coalition” fighting IS in Syria and Iraq.

Not a soldier at all. Just an aging violent man with deep mental issues.

There is no Islamic State.

And why is a terrorist group permitted a News Agency?

As much we we are all angry now and want to blame someone for this, the fact is we could all carry out such an attack. What stops us is our sanity and healthy relationship with society and our fellow human beings.

We can never completely prevent such attacks.

I realise this provides zero comfort for the victims and their families. Such a waste. So pointless.

Nigel Farage, former leader of the right-wing UK Independence Party, blamed the attack on “multiculturalism.”

Nigel, Haven't you done enough damage already? Just be quiet.

Sughra Ahmed, a Muslim woman who traveled from northwest England for the vigil, said she’d been reduced to tears on the square by a woman who embraced her. “Britain is one,” she said. “An attack on one is an attack on us all.”

That says it all.

"But most politicians said the violence should not divide Britain, and May called the rampage “a perversion of a great faith.”

Like clockwork. Words like 'perverted' and 'twisted' always get trotted out whenever people get killed in incidents like this. Looking around the world, there seems to be a lot of 'perversions' of this faith. I've heard people with far more knowledge about this faith than May give justifications for violence based on this faith.

Not a discussion most people generally like to have. I suppose we'll call it perverted, dust of the cliches light the candles again the next time.

The Islamic State group claimed responsibility for Wednesday’s attack,

Why wouldn't they, it's in their interest to do so even though they were most probably unaware of the attack, didn't know this man etc. Had he even been radicalised?

Don't see this man as an IS soldier and not even sure what he did falls under so called 'IS-inspired acts of terrorism" but media and govts alike love to think they have 'identified' and isolated the threat rather than admit they/we are vulnerable and somehow powerless against this.

@JeffLee There weapons all around you. To have access to weapons all someone needs to do is go to the kitchen. Remember the soldier in UK killed with meat cleavers in 2013? Most western homes have one of those so anyone has weapons.

Weapons possession? Nah, course not. Why would an aspiring terrorist ever want to have access to weapons.

We're not talking about future aspirations, we're talking about past convictions. Question should be why would an aspiring terrorist need past convictions for weapons possession, assault or disorderly behavior? That pretty much describes the majority of most prison populations around the world.

Very difficult to see how these things can be prevented. Cars can be used as mass casualty weapons while knives are freely available. Attacking the causes of these events is the best way forward, and considering IS claimed this attack and that lone wolf attacks like this exploded due to their rise, destroying IS as quickly as possible is the best way forward. Wannabe terrorists would then have less incentive to carry out these attacks once the group's territory in the ME is retaken as the media response presumably won't be as big

“Those evil and tortured individuals who try to destroy our shared way of life will never succeed,” Mayor Sadiq Khan told the crowd.

But they kind of have already if you look at how restricted some things (travel for example) have become.

and they may not completely destroy our way of life but they have destroyed numerous individual lives along the way.

Very difficult to see how these things can be prevented.

They can't. But people want someone to blame, so that they can feel secure. So they blame the Muslims for sharing a faith with the extremists, or they blame the security agencies for not finding something that the terrorists were doing their utmost to ensure didn't get discovered.

The fact is, it's pretty much impossible to stop all terrorist attacks. Terrorism is an idea, not something substantial that can be eliminated. If you removed all terrorists from the earth today, and struck the idea from all books, and prevented people from talking about it, then came back and looked at the earth in a few decades, we'd have terrorism again.

When you accept that terrorism is something that cannot be eliminated, you realize that we need to start working on risk management, rather than terrorism eradication. This means taking actions like not invading countries for their oil, not banning people from countries based on their religion, and not bombing innocents with drones. The less people we push to terrorism, the less terrorists there will be.

@Strangerland

The less people we push to terrorism, the less terrorists there will be.

What a load of nonsense. What did the innocent victims of this attack do to push this man to terrorism? What did my neighbour who died in the 7/7 attacks do to push these people to plant bombs on trains? You've really outdone yourself today Strangerland.

But people want someone to blame, so that they can feel secure. So they blame the Muslims for sharing a faith with the extremists

You chastise people for holding the entire Muslim community responsible for reigning in their terrorists, but at the same time you have no hesitation to hold everyone living in the west responsible for civilian drone deaths. Do you really not see your own hypocrisy?

“Those evil and tortured individuals who try to destroy our shared way of life will never succeed,” Mayor Sadiq Khan told the crowd."

"But they kind of have already if you look at how restricted some things (travel for example) have become."

Also, terrorism or the threat of it has certainly helped in limiting people's freedom of speech and expression on certain topics.

What a load of nonsense. What did the innocent victims of this attack do to push this man to terrorism?

Where did I say they did anything?

What did my neighbour who died in the 7/7 attacks do to push these people to plant bombs on trains?

Where did I say he did anything?

I'm happy to answer questions about something I've said. I can't be bothered responding to strawmen though.

When you accept that terrorism is something that cannot be eliminated, you realize that we need to start working on risk management, rather than terrorism eradication. This means taking actions like not invading countries for their oil, not banning people from countries based on their religion, and not bombing innocents with drones. The less people we push to terrorism, the less terrorists there will be.

@Strangerland: I had to log in (from a location I probably shouldn't) just to say thank you. And I believe that is one of the best, most realistic comments/posts I have seen in a long while. I wholeheartedly agree. Too many seem to suffer from damage to their frontal cortex and therefore unable to see (from the "enemy's" perpective) and understand what put us in all this trouble. They should understand how their complicity and ignorance is a big part of the cause of what's referred to as 'terrorism'. And they should be able to see all that has been stolen from us and other nations around the globe for the benefit of a few (i.e. a stable future). But they. Just. Don't. Get. It...

I'm inclined to agree with strangerland. Unfortunately, bombing the daylight out of other nations only breeds more terrorism. Civilians in one nation can not be placed in higher regard than civilians in another. Unfortunately it is only the civilians who suffer and acts of violence only bring more acts of violence.

There is no Islamic State.

And why is a terrorist group permitted a News Agency?

Exactly this. No more real than the tooth fairy or Easter Bunny. What makes them real is the media. Quit referring to them and they will be hit harder than anything that has happened to them before.

Clearly the perpetrator had mental issues and his experiences of social failure culminating in periods of incarceration no doubt fed his anger and aggression. Even if his ties to islamic radicalism were superficial, ISIS has become a brand and a powerful international meme that can be used by disaffected Muslims to give justify their violent acts and burnish their image as jihadis. That this flourishing meme continues to attract thousands of disgruntled individuals thirsting for revenge proves that the bill incurred by Western warmongers for the invasion of Iraq (not to mention the never-ending tragedy of the Zionists and Arabs) has not yet been fully paid by ordinary citizens regardless of whether they supported the wars of aggression waged by their governments. This looks to be a long-running saga since history teaches that humans learn nothing from it.

And why is a terrorist group permitted a News Agency?

I don't quite get what you mean here. Amaq isn't IS news agency per se or at least both sides are very vague about that. The way I see it is that it's the only media who's basically tolerated/accepted by IS and has relationships with the group and its fighters etc.

I actually think it's very valuable to us westerners to have something/someone/somewhere who can talk to these guys and report about the organisation, what they do etc. It sure is some sort of propaganda but aren't all news, fake or real, propaganda anyway?

Nigel Farage, former leader of the right-wing UK Independence Party, blamed the attack on “multiculturalism.”

Okay you grinning loon, this killer was not born Khalid Masood but Adrian Elms, born in Kent and probably converted to Islam later in life. So he's not an immigrant Nigel, he was a natural born Briton. You can't blame this on immigration no matter how hard you try.

As for IS, they'd claim the 'credit' for the opening of an envelope if it got them publicity in the West.

"You can't blame this on immigration no matter how hard you try."

Does he have an immigrant background? If so, then yes you could.

Does he have an immigrant background? If so, then yes you could.

Ahh, so we just need to stop all immigration everywhere, forever, and we will never have to worry about the children of immigrants committing terrorist attacks! So simple!

"Ahh, so we just need to stop all immigration everywhere"

No, but stop the open-door policies, which allowed in wanted terrorists (true) and other non-integrating undesirables.

Not all immigration policies are the same. There are smart policies and there are dumb, irresponsible policies. Even Blair and other European leaders have admitted that "serious mistakes" were made in their countries' past policies.

Nigel has a point, even if you can't fathom it.

"Some of the children born in Britain have become jihadist, a very low percentage"

True, the foot soldiers are few at any given time. There are many, many more sympathizers, as the Salmon Rushdie case showed. UK police said 3 years ago they'd thwarted 40 serious Islamist plots in Britain. I guess the number is now, what, 60? It's a constant intensive war the UK must fight against a segment of its own population.

@JeffLee

Yes. I've been called a racist, bigot and an 'Islamophobe' for agreeing with the party I have almost always voted for in saying the Labour Party in the UK made mistakes with immigration. I've been a bit more encouraged recently in that saying this doesn't always automatically lead to stupid shouts of racism.

Reactions to filth like what happened in London is another example of what infuriates many. Majid Nawaz, a Muslim, called this kind of thing the 'Voldemort effect' because politicians are too afraid to name it. You'll here general comments about 'hate', 'intolerance' and 'evil' but next to no comments about what this 'hate' is and where it's coming from.

The sad thing is trash like the likes of Trump, Farage and Le Pen see this as something to really get their teeth into. Trump won the US election, Farage was a major player in Brexit and Le Pen is a real menace in France - everything that liberals ( I count myself as one ) generally dispise.

Liberals and mainstream politicians are their own worst enemy.

What did the innocent victims of this attack do to push this man to terrorism?

Tragically, we're asking the wrong questions, M3:

What horrors have been visited upon innocents in their name, with their taxes?

What redress, or even acknowledgement, has been provided for the victims?

Why wasn't Tony Blair hauled before the ICC in The Hague?

Until these issues are addressed, the insanity will continue.

"Until these issues are addressed, the insanity will continue."

Perhaps it could help but there are extremists who state that their goals are not simply redress. They are actively preaching a goal of UK under sharia. Opinion polls suggest that hundreds of thousands of UK Muslims see this as a good idea.

Perhaps it could help but there are extremists who state that their goals are not simply redress

Then render the tiny number of extremists redundant with a truth and reconciliation process.

While we continue to be seen as not giving a Friar Tuck, nothing will change.

@SenseNotSoCommon

I fully agree that what the UK was involved in in Iraq was an utter disgrace and Blair should have stood trial. The 2005 election is the only election I didn't vote Labour - I couldn't bring myself to vote for a party involved in this bloodbath. There are legitimate and serious grievances which need to be addressed.

However, I notice you didn't deal with my point about sharia. I don't see how legitimate grievances about Iraq are related to extremist ideas about supporting sharia in the UK. The numbers are horrifying and the squirming you see from many moderate Muslims on this point is very disturbing. I'm sure you remember a former head of the supposedly moderate Muslim Council of Britain declaring death "too good" for the blasphemer Salman Rushdie. The inability of many Muslims to state categorically that there shouldn't be a penalty for leaving Islam is monstrous.

There is a serous problem here. These kinds of ideas are very dangerous an far too close to what people hate in the hate preachers for my liking. As long as people make excuses for this, call people who state these facts 'islamophobes' or claim the only problem is 'islamophobia', we can't even begin to talk honestly about the problem, let alone deal with it.

@Jimizo

"The sad thing is trash like the likes of Trump, Farage and Le Pen see this as something to really get their teeth into."

My hope is that the deer-in-headlights mainstream parties will figure out exactly WHY the populists are able to get their teeth into these ongoing attackers. And then respond in new ways -- such as public consultation (perish the thought!) -- that take the teeth out of the populist platform.

@JeffLee

The strangest thing for me is what I mentioned earlier. If someone who had somehow managed to avoid all news for a few decades and heard May speak yesterday about 'hate', the person would have wondered what this hate is, what it's based on and who is doing the hating.

The same thing happened in the US with Obama and Clinton after terrorist atrocities there and the exasperation was clear from many. It was a gift-wrapped present to Trump. The Dutch PM spoke out about the fears Dutch people have about these issues before the election ( no doubt to try to deflate Wilders ).

Next is Le Pen...

I don't see how legitimate grievances about Iraq are related to extremist ideas about supporting sharia in the UK.

In 1970s and 1980s Belfast, churches of all denominations were overflowing, as people's religious identities - and the challenges to them - were at their height. Having somewhere to hang your hat on a Sunday was all the rage. These days people's religious identities aren't challenged, and churches are closing down.

The same will be true for British muslims. Make peace with Islam, and the more morally challenged of the imams will go the way of the dodo. Believers and their kids will lapse, becoming nominal muslims and eventually born-again atheists like yourself.

Of course this also requires seizing the salafist nettle of the Gulf thiefdoms, as part of inviting extremists in all quarters - big and small - to Foxtrot Oscar. Human evolution demands it, but dare we do it, Jim?

"Make peace with Islam"

Yeah, that should be easy. So who has made peace with Islam? The Chinese? No. The Thais? No. The Russians? No. The Americans? No. The Burmese? No. The Philippinos? No. The Sudanese? No. The French? No.The Nigerians? No. And so on and so on.

That faith is designed to create division and intolerance, matter where in the world.

Thunderbird2 wrote: "Okay you grinning loon (Nigel Farage), this killer was not born Khalid Masood but Adrian Elms, born in Kent and probably converted to Islam later in life. So he's not an immigrant Nigel, he was a natural born Briton. You can't blame this on immigration no matter how hard you try."

I suspect that at a deeper level this event has everything to do with immigration - and in particular its racial component.

I suspect that at a deeper level this event has everything to do with immigration - and in particular its racial component.

Oh, there's a racial component to it, alright: a systematic and long-established dehumanizing of whole populations, both internally and externally.

Let's call out these intellectually challenged arguments for exactly what they are.

Time to evolve.

"Time to evolve."

Be careful with your choice of words. A Muslim cleric in the UK found himself getting death threats from his Muslim brothers for believing that humans evolved.

SenseNotSoCommon wrote: "Time to evolve."

No. Time to write with minimal clarity what you mean.