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Britons cast historic vote on EU future

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Remain a member of the European Union

-3 ( +12 / -15 )

In

0 ( +12 / -12 )

“The country is in an absolute mess. I work in construction and every single person on my job is not English,” he said.

Nothing new here. Many jobs/industries no longer attract local youths and we can't blame foreigners for that. Our governments have ostracized manual labor, factory & farming jobs etc for decades now. Silly to think leaving the EU will reverse the trend.

7 ( +12 / -5 )

Out! The creators of the english language ,yet very few speak proper english anymore.We have the E.U. to thank for that.

-7 ( +9 / -16 )

That this matter has come to the point to be "voted" is already a sign of the decadence of the UK and its people their ability to understand the negative effects leaving the EU will mean to them.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

OUT.

-8 ( +6 / -14 )

"The Thursday editions of British newspapers captured the drama of voting day. “Independence day” was the headline of the pro-Brexit Sun"

I prefer to think of Murdoch as the Emperor from Star Wars.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Awaiting result of psychiatric report.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

It is not a difficult decision.

The proponents of Remain are rich, connected, powerful elitists with vested interests in the status quo.

The proponents of Leave want the People to have the opportunity to salvage their economy, their culture, and their country.

-3 ( +11 / -14 )

CrazyJoe - exactly right.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

I'm syrian/british and I vote IN

6 ( +11 / -5 )

@CrazyJoe,

The proponents of both sides are just as rich and connected.

If the status quo is arguing about bananas rather than invading a neighbouring country, it might not be too bad.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

albeleo, Thats a pretty sad commentary on your world view.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

It is not a difficult decision.

The proponents of Remain are rich, connected, powerful elitists with vested interests in the status quo.

The proponents of Leave want the People to have the opportunity to salvage their economy, their culture, and their country.

Wrong - I'm not rich, not connected and certainly not powerful or elite. I just don't want my country left high and dry while the rest of the world carries on regardless. Besides, I'd rather paint my tackle with sauce and stand naked in front of a lion than be on the same side as Farage and Boris the Clown.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

The Brexit campaign has always been full of contradictions and inconsistencies that have never been fully addressed.

They complain about a democratic 'deficit' in the EU, but they don't seem to be too concerned about the fact that the UK head of state is unelected or that every member in the House of Lords is unelected. If the EU has a 'deficit', is the UK be democratically bankrupt? Imagine how democratic it would be if the British Parliament could vote to dismiss a proposed Prime Minister along with every member of the Cabinet. The EU parliament has this right, the UK Parliament does not.

On immigration, they have no problem demanding that the borders should be closed to unskilled workers, yet in the same breath they will tell you that we are going to roll out the welcome mat for every doctor, engineer and accountant in India and the Commonwealth. Surely, if we're worried about the employment prospects and wages of our young people, shouldn't we be investing in education and closing the borders to foreigners who want to 'steal' our high-skilled jobs as well?

When they complain about unelected bureaucrats in Brussels, they simply ignore the fact that the vast majority of UK legislation is delegated to unelected bureaucrats. All of your UK regulations, bylaws, statutory instruments, orders in council etc... all made by unelected bureaucrats in Britain. Parliament only passes around 100 pieces of general legislation in any given year. They've always had to delegate their legislative power to someone who irons out the details (ie the civil servant who designs the layout of the income tax form).

Of course, the civil war was fought to confirm the principle that Parliament is supreme and can pass any law it wants (which includes temporarily transferring legislative power to unelected bureaucrats). That's why it's odd to hear Brexiteers complain about this and still portray themselves as the defenders of British traditions. By claiming that Parliamentarians are somehow acting illegitimately, betraying us, and squandering our birthright by doing this, they are undermining the principle of Parliamentary supremacy which is the cornerstone of British democracy. It's really quite radical.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Thunderbird, the EU's days are numbered. youre better off out now than hanging in for the collapse.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Thunderbird, the EU's days are numbered. youre better off out now than hanging in for the collapse.

I don't think so... but each to his own.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

albeleo, Thats a pretty sad commentary on your world view.

Not if you treat governments and bureaucracies as necessary evils. They form a small part of my world view. I'd rather do without them.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Ladbrookes odds have gone up for a Remain since this morning. Now 83% chance of Remain. I should have ignored the hysteria and bet on Remain - over one hundred million pounds have been wagered in this crazy referendum.

I know which "poll" I'll put faith in at this point....

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I read that the larger sums of money have been bet on the remain side. We British are known for being conservative when push comes to shove so people might end up playing it safe when they get into the box.

Then again they might like a bit of gamble themselves.

My family in England are very divided on this. Dad and mum want to leave, but sister and brother will vote to remain.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

IN. OUT. Shake it all about.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

What stops Japan and China and even the US from exporting not only to Europe but also the UK? How do those countries manage?

Anything is possible as we live in a capitalist world.

There are far too many people in the UK than is beneficial for its current stage of development, we don't need nor can we manage unfettered immigration!

People posting remain don't understand the issue at all!

The EU is a preserver of a minority the same way the political system in the UK preserves a similar majority.

Staying in the EU just preserves the power of an unelected sucking majority which are not necessary!

If the posters pushing to stay in the EC oppressive regime don't realise that then they should go away and think it out.......

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

"The proponents of Remain are rich, connected, powerful elitists with vested interests in the status quo."

According to the Economist poll, the rich to tend to favour remain while the poor are in favour of leave.

The poor are screwed either way in my opinion.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Yes, little will really change but it is one layer of oppression that the people of the UK have finally been able to throw off .......if indeed only if they leave.....

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Out! Power to the people!

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Yes, little will really change but it is one layer of oppression that the people of the UK have finally been able to throw off .......if indeed only if they leave.....

We're not being oppressed by anyone Crisps... last time I looked I never saw people weeping and wailing about a lack of freedom. Well, outside of prisons anyway, lol

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@kurisupisu

Don't you think the EU was useful and necessary when Belgium decided that you couldn't import and sell Scotch Whiskey without special approval? Or when they required all foreign margarine to be packaged into cubes for no legitimate reason (other than local manufacturers preferred to package them that way). Or when Germany tried to ban foreign beers on the basis that they were too weak and might lead to higher consumption and therefore alcoholism (huh?). Or when Luxembourg tried to tax foreign gingerbread men to protect their domestic market. Or when French authorities just stood by when farmers blocked Spanish strawberries from entering the country.

Without the strong enforcement mechanisms of the EU, trade in Europe would go back to being a nightmare and we would all be poorer. All of the measures listed above were against EU trade rules and the cases were brought to the EU Court of Justice where the abuses were stopped. Even when tariffs are zero, countries are always cooking up new protectionist rules and regulations to keep out foreign competition. The EU is uniquely designed to deal with this.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I basically agree with the John Harris position in the Guardian. Remain will win, but it is going to be a hollow victory and the big story is traditional Labour voters voting en masse for Brexit. It's not Corbyn's fault, because deep down he'll be anti EU just like Michael Foot was, Tony Benn was, and Dennis Skinner still is, but this will finish the Labour Party. There is too deep a chasm between them and their traditional power base. It's basically Blair's doing.

The Euroskeptic wing of the Tory party could cause trouble for them, but the Right has always been good at overcoming differences and pulling in the same direction. "Judean Peoples' Front? Nah! Peoples' Front of Judea!!" is what you find on the Left. The obvious place for traditional white Labour voters to go is sadly UKIP. I don't think UKIP need to win this referendum. They just need to get close to legitimize their basic platform. If, like the SNP, they can find a strong new leader following narrow referendum defeat, they could become a genuine force.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I don't think UKIP need to win this referendum. They just need to get close to legitimize their basic platform.

As Brexit is UKIP's raison d'être, will they disband after the vote, or will a Provisional UKIP emerge?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The German newspaper Bild has made number of pledges/reforms in the event of a remain....

Quoting ESPN.....

Acknowledge that the highly contentious third England goal in the 1966 World Cup final crossed the line We won't make any more jokes about Prince Charles' ears We won't wear sun cream on the beach in solidarity with your sunburn We will go without our goalkeeper at the next penalty shootout to make it exciting Willingly be the villain in every Bond movie Tick with you and immediately put the clocks back one hour Put through an EU directive that forbids foam on our beer Reserve sun loungers around the pool for you with our towels Joachim Low will guard your crown jewels We will come to the Queen's 100th birthday celebrations.....

Deep in difficult negotiations one has to hold out for the deal breakers....

http://www.espnfc.com/blog/the-toe-poke/65/post/2900137/german-paper-bild-makes-1966-world-cup-promise-if-uk-rejects-brexit

However that belligerent un-elected Brussels bureaucrat EU Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker had to vomit out a final threat "out is out"......

Here another quote from Juncker....

"When it becomes serious, you have to lie, I'm ready to be insulted as being insufficiently democratic, but I want to be serious ... I am for secret, dark debates, of course there will be transfers of sovereignty. But would I be intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion to this fact?”

Whether a inner or a outer is make sense to be a voter.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

If remain wins, I think Labour can come out of this much stronger than the split Tories. As much as I respect Corbyn as a man of principle, I'd like to see Alan Johnson leading Labour into the next election.

I think both Boris and Nigel are finished politically if we don't get Brexit. Theresa May, who I'm sure has secretly voted for Brexit (just wait for her memoirs to come out), is already being talked about as Cameron's replacement.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

"I think both Boris and Nigel are finished politically if we don't get Brexit"

I'm not sure about Johnson. The majority of Tory voters favour Brexit. Many people would like to see a British Prime Minister 'standing up to Europe'. I can imagine Johnson's rhetoric about standing up to those Brussels bureaucrats and referencing Dunkirk now.

I'd say he's more popular than Cameron among the Tory core.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

As much as I respect Corbyn as a man of principle.

Is that the Jeremy Corbyn who at the height of the IRA’s “armed struggle,” attended and spoke at official republican commemorations to honour dead IRA terrorists, IRA “prisoners of war” and the active “soldiers of the IRA”? Yet, as leader of the opposition, he undertook the customary task of laying a wreath at the Remembrance Sunday service at the Cenotaph?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Out! Power to the people! LOl and where do you think all those big rich corporations will go if there's an exit, theyll move and base in the EU. along with all the jobs associated with them. To think that the UK can magically just get an FTA with the EU and keep all the benefits associated with being in the EU they're sadly mistaken. Being a separate state the EU will have a superior negotiating power over the UK in trade, the UK will need the EU far more than the EU will need the UK in free trade.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I was so tempted to stick two fingers up at the EU by voting LEAVE. But I've voted REMAIN as I will give one chance for reforms and if nothing changes and we get another referendum (which with enough noise we would get) then I will vote to leave the EU.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@Jimizo

You might be right about Boris. Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part. I can't imagine how he can appeal to anyone, but obviously he does have his supporters. I guess we'll just have to wait for the results now.

@wtfjapan

LOl and where do you think all those big rich corporations will go if there's an exit, theyll move and base in the EU.

Exactly. When you consider how many of the cars made in the UK are exported to the rest of the EU, it's hard to imagine that companies like Nissan and Toyota will continuing to invest in the UK, even if they don't relocate immediately.

@KariHaruka

I was so tempted to stick two fingers up at the EU by voting LEAVE. But I've voted REMAIN as I will give one chance for reforms and if nothing changes and we get another referendum (which with enough noise we would get) then I will vote to leave the EU.

I think you made the right choice. Let's hope alot of other people made this same sensible decision.

@JTO

Fair comment. He wasn't my first choice for leader either.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Geopolitically, leaving the EU just means the UK will be closer to the US, and help the US continued dominance of Europe through NATO.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

As a londoner im with Crazy Joe, my working class Mum wants to leave where my middle class Dad wants remain.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Is that the Jeremy Corbyn who at the height of the IRA’s “armed struggle,” attended...

secret talks with the Provos right throughout the 70s and 80s?

No, that was mostly the Conservatives, even Thatcher's cabinet, despite the security establishment colluding to murderous effect with loyalist paramilitaries.

But those days are hopefully behind us all, and the borders - real or imagined - confined to history.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

For anyone interested here is a great analysis of the referendum age,household income, education etc. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2016/jun/23/eu-referendum-live-results-and-analysis

1 ( +1 / -0 )

" LOl and where do you think all those big rich corporations will go if there's an exit, theyll move and base in the EU. along with all the jobs associated with them "

Sure, and the sky will fall and the sun will never rise again. Good grief, it is amazing how many people fall for the propaganda of the unelected Eurocrats and globalists.

In the event, I am unconvinced that they will actually leave; I still think the popular vote will be ignorred on some technicality, and "progress" towards the EU multinatinal undemocratic empire continues. Juncker is already talking about a EU armee, and I have no reason to doubt that he will get it.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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