Burkini bans cause ripples in France, consternation abroad

Well done good start

I guess full wetsuits w/hoods for scuba are banned, too?

Don't be silly. Wetsuits are not muslim.

There's been alot of misreporting about this in the media. The 'ban' is not actually about any specific garment, nor is it new.

It's about overtly religious symbols on public beaches that cause problems with public order, which are already prohibited by laws that enforce strict secularism in France. This is only a statement by mayor on how those pre-existing laws will now be enforced in their municipalities. So suggesting that this is a newly introduced law specifically targeting the burqinis is inaccurate.

So this is why a secular wetsuit will be allowed while a similar looking swimsuit invented by religious extremists to hide and bodyshame women from the rest of society will be banned.

France have always had a very particular rapport with religions and their very own 'secularism/laicite' is often misunderstood by foreigners. Many French for example see wearing the burka, kippah, Christian cross or in this case 'burkini' as an act of proselytism, something that's against French core values, the Republic etc.

They are also playing the gender equality card, i.e. 'Muslim women wearing burkini are victims, they don't really have a choice etc'.

Problem is they are the only ones who have this interpretation about "laïcité" and trying to impose their 'idealistic' views on immigrants and the rest of the world is a lost cause and could prove particularly dangerous in 2016 France. Perso I think they should lift those burkini bans.

Meanwhile, topless bathing remains approved, I assume. As a male, this pleases me. As a humanist, I find it deeply troubling.

Women were arrested for exposing too much skin, now they can be arrested for not exposing enough skin. If the women of all religious groups or the non religious in France really believed in freedom, they would choose a day, say July 14th, and wear burkinis to the the beach in Nice. Ionesco's Rhinoceros has never been more true. It may have been about Nazis, but look at what people are trying to do to people who just want to play with their children in the water AND observe their freedom. Hang in Jean.

Much more effective would be to ban new immigrants from muslim countries, but that won't happen.

I can understand banning the Burqa as a symbol of repression as well as a security risk, but the Burkini seems fine TBH. A ban on it seems like a needless provocation

It is religious clothing. Muslim women could wear those sun tops with a hood that a lot of people wear on the beaches here and there wouldn't be any issue.

Spanki:

" t is religious clothing. "

No, there is a context to this. It represents radical islam, and that is why the islamists are so adamant to increase its presence in the public sphere in the West. It also serves as a visual marker to separate the "good" women from what the islamists call sl u ts, i.e. women in Western dress.

That said, while I am all for a burka ban in the public and for a burkini ban in indoor swimming pools, I don´t really see the point of enforcing this on beaches. There are reasons some people want to go swimming wearing larger swimwear (sunburn, jellyfish, etc), and I don´t really see how can force a particular type of swimwear on people.

In order to combat the radical extremisim of a bunch of men imposing on women what they are allowed to wear, a bunch of men have instituted a policy of imposing on women what they are allowed to wear. Well done.

A wise decision.

Allow them, but only if Muslim men wear them too.

"Women were arrested for exposing too much skin, now they can be arrested for not exposing enough skin. If the women of all religious groups or the non religious in France really believed in freedom, they would choose a day, say July 14th, and wear burkinis to the the beach in Nice".

This is overly simplistic noriyosan (and am pretty sure you knew it when you wrote this), it's not about 'being arrested for not exposing enough skin' but rather, rightly or wrongly, protecting the core secular values of a country. Many people still see the burqa and in this case the burkini as a symbol of male domination something they do not want to condone/accept in their country. You can't expect French feminists, intellectuals etc who have been fighting for gender equality, freedom etc all their life to rally to the burkini cause.

Perso although I completely understand the reasons behind the ban I just think banning the burkini right now won't help restoring security, rebuilding trust etc. It's a philosophical decision, matter of principle sort of thing when perhaps a more pragmatic answer (i.e 'let's try to understand 'our' Muslims" ) would have been better for the country's sake. It is a tricky one.

Women covered for religious reasons is a pretty depressing sight in a civilised, secular 21st century democracy but I don't see how a ban on what women can wear on the beach is the right thing to do.

It may be worth considering that some Muslim women have pointed out how covering all women is not mandated in the Koran. Unsurprisingly, that argument doesn't always cut so much ice in certain quarters.

It represents radical islam

Ridiculous. It has nothing to do with the radical side of Islam.

Much more effective would be to ban new immigrants from muslim countries, but that won't happen.

Don't even have to waste time with passing a law to ban them. Just have an unofficial policy of declining all applicants. With a smile.

I think France should ignore the "burkini" unless it's problematic and causes issues and accidents during swimming or they start covering their faces with it... Bans on Burqa, and the face covering Niqab is understandable. But no reason to ban headscarves or "burkini's" in my opinion.

Islam is the most messed up religion in the world today. Oppressive, violent, and misogynistic with loads of chauvinism to boot. Nobody has been having these types of issues with all the other world religions (maybe voodoo, but not to these extremes...).

If you look at just how many people have paid with their lives over 'religion and their beliefs' during the VERY short span that it has played a part in human kind's existence, I see no problem from banning such obvious throwbacks to controlling a population because of one's religious beliefs. If they want to be like that on their own property then so be it.

How can anyone in today's modern times condone any religion which treats women as less equal than men and controls them with fear of violence and/or death for stepping out of line according to their religious beliefs. What millennium do they think they are living in?

A woman at the beach. A mother outdoors with her child. I only care that a woman is able to play freely with her child in the sea and laugh aloud. Enjoy summer! Wear what you want, or whatever allows you to go outside and be free. Seems this is about men telling women what to or what not to wear. I can only see a ban leading to some women being ironically forced to stay in hotel rooms while their family is frolicking in the sea and sun. Which is sadder? She stares longingly out the hotel window watching her family play because she is not allowed to go outside. I would never want to be responsible for keeping a woman locked inside. Let them wear what they must. Just help them get out! And, try talking to her. How about a friendly greeting instead of a cold stare?