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Bush memoir sells 220,000 copies on first day

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Sad business.

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In a depression like the one he caused, people need a good laugh.

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Way to go people. Keep putting more cash in his pocket.

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In a depression like the one he caused, people need a good laugh.

Let's get the full-tilt conspiracy mindset going here , shall we - - Bush caused a worldwide Depression from which not one single country is immune so he could leave office and peddle a few hundred thousand copies of his memoirs.

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A tough month for liberals. First, their beloved U.S. democrats gets a shellacking in the mid-term elections; now the object of their frothing at the mouth outsells the ghost written books of their American idol, Obama.

Too funny.

RR

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220,000 copies on the first day.

Misunderestimated, again.

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Looks like releasing this book might be the best thing Bush ever did for the economy!

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Bush caused a worldwide Depression from which not one single country is immune

You should have stopped there while you were still correct.

I still cant fathom the idea that this man would ever be able to string a paragraph together let alone a whole book.

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Bush's book was undoubtedly ghostwritten. I saw a copy and it's not even written in crayon. If he were capable of writing he'd be able to read. If he could read, he might have read the memo that said "Note to president: Al Qaeda terrorists are soon going to hijack planes in the United States." Then he wouldn't have run up the national debt with two wars and destroyed the world's economy.

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How many spelling mistakes are there in the book?

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Not a surprise. The right-leaning, corporate American media, lead by Faux News is currently on a campaign to revise history and beatify Bush the Younger. Expect some poll to come out within the next month stating him to be "one of the best presidents in American History"

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I still cant fathom the idea that this man would ever be able to string a paragraph together let alone a whole book.

I guess you missed him yesterday schooling Matt Lauer on nat'l TV as to why the so-called Bush tax cuts actually benefit the economy.

No teleprompter.

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outsells the ghost written books of their American idol, Obama

First of all, Obama's books were not ghost written. Second, Obama has sold nearly 1.5 millions copies of his books. 1.5 million is a greater number than 220,000.

Clinton's memoirs debuted at 400,000.

Ouch.

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No doubt half the 'consumers' are elementary schools who want to put it along with their other picture books; next to My Pet Goat, probably.

As Sushi said, though, people DO need a laugh. The saddest part of course is that a book of his gaffes would have far more pages than any memoir, particularly given his propensity to forget things when it suited him.

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"How many spelling mistakes are there in the book?"

Had he himself written and published it it would be unreadable, I'm sure. It'd be like the monkeys bashing at the keyboard (except bush would never be able to recreate the works of Shakespeare, of course). As it is, he probably had someone on hand to translate moron-to-English, and a few hundred editors to fix things so that you can read it.

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That's a lot of money to pay for a doorstop.

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I heard he was donating it all to charity and religious organizations, like the Muslim Community Center in downtown New York City, and to the Christians in Iraq of which are being slaughtered while I am typing this.

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TimRussert

I guess you missed him yesterday schooling Matt Lauer on nat'l TV as to why the so-called Bush tax cuts actually benefit the economy.

I guess you missed former Chairman Allen Greenspan say that tax cuts do not pay for themselves. Economists have had ample time to measure the effects of tax cuts on the U.S. economy - Bush puts the "bunk" back in Kennebunkport.

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Greatly underestimated President imo. Had the cojones to take it to the enemy and also knew how to talk to the common man. Thousands of European and American lives were saved by his proactive foreign policies.

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John Stewart showed a copy and it was already marked down 30%.

Taka

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You know, when people bash on Bush because of his actions in office or his policies, I often see the logic of these arguments. However, it is plain BS to claim the man is unintelligent. It is the same kind of BS claims that Obama can't speak w/o a teleprompter. Neither BS claim adds anything of value to any discussion.

Call the man a bad president if you wish. However, he is certainly not a simpleton.

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No doubt half the 'consumers' are elementary schools who want to put it along with their other picture books; next to My Pet Goat, probably.

Yeah, mr smithinjapan. The teachers' unions , they prolly snapped up half of all the copies out there. Cuz they are, like, real big Republican party supporters. Yessir, if there is one certainty in US politics it is the unions' support for a guy like Bush.

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John Stewart showed a copy and it was already marked down 30%

Stewart is the man. Totally restored sanity before the most recent elections.

Mr Creosote

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I like the part of Bush's book tour where he defends torturing prisoners by saying, "Lawyers told me it was OK, and I said 'Go ahead. Do it.'"

Lawyers told him it was OK? Of course, anyone can find and cherry pick those lawyers who tell you exactly what you want to hear. (There are many legal opinions which condemn torture, based upon the constitutional ban against subjecting human beings to cruel and unusual punishment.)

It's just like the situation where Bush surrounded himself with people who cherry-picked dubious evidence that sent the United States to war with Iraq. Thousands upon thousands of innocent people maimed and killed. A legacy only Republicans can take pride in.

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I like how bush got all upset of Kanye West's comments -- the only time the latter had anything to say that was correct. When a moron gets dissed by another moron you KNOW they did something wrong.

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"Greatly underestimated President"

I certainly underestimated him. Who would have thought the Gore/Bush election would have made much of a difference? I distinctly remember giving a speech to a couple of hundred people before the election with words to the effect that the election will be very close because people don't see a big difference between the two candidates, and that they were probably right. So. Yeah. I underestimated what an utter calamity he would be, and a lot of other people did too.

Just another point of interest. I have a Republican library, with memoirs of this and that Republican over the years. As you might expect, I switched some years back to having a Democratic library of books. Almost without exception, the Dems stuff has always been good. Insightful. Well considered. Provocative of larger questions, and timeless. Republican stuff was also ok, right up to about David Stockman's era. Nixon wrote great stuff and told great stories, and even the Watergate thug who wrote WILL did allright. But starting with anything from Reagan's second term, it just got stupid. Really really dumbed down pablum, ideology, and throw away jingoism. General rule: the more moderate the writer, the more interesting it is because they don't harp on the stupid stuff.

But people buy them. Ever look at a Glenn Beck book? Dear lord. I picked one up in a WalMart or something and holy Toledo. Cut and paste from the Weekly World News. There appeared to be citations and footnotes, which just led to more ranting in fine print. It was embarrassing to look at. How could he be proud of that? He obviously did it just to rip people off. Palin? Gingrich? McCain? Sure they have ghostwriters, who must be the editors too. Look around on the internet for excerpts. There are bound to be doozies.

I think they get printed and pumped out as fast as possible. Businessmen order 100 advance copies to distribute to cronies. Nobody reads them. Who would ever be quizzed on the contents? Definitely not required reading, and reading is not required to get value out of them.

And, to put it succinctly, the Dem authored books are just the opposite. Oh I have avoided some, I guess, but if I were stuck on a Carnival cruiser with no power, I would read the Dem books and burn the GOP ones to keep warm.

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"However, he is certainly not a simpleton."

You are the kind of person who would be shocked if you had seen and heard a tenth of what I have seen during my political work. Please don't think that you have to wear a skirt to be as ditzy as O'Donnell. There are some extremely stupid people who make it to positions of power and fame. They are on both sides of the aisle, and it ain't always who you think it is. GW Bush has been called "stupid" in various ways by political allies, world leaders, acquaintances, and many observers with enough experience to be objective. I believe he might have been so. The internet makes it hard to cover things up.

JFK received a Pulitzer Prize for Profiles in Courage (no ghost writing) before he was elected a Senator at age 30. Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar. Carter was a nuclear physicist. Nixon was a detail-crazy lawyer and former vice Pres who did all of Eisenhower's dirty work. Bush senior was head of the CIA. All were proud men who distinguished themselves somehow. Reagan had been an actor, a union leader, and university president and governor of freaking California.

And then along comes GW. What a bag of rocks. He couldn't read his Alpha Bits.

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Smithinjapan tries to go deep but fails, again:

I like how bush got all upset of Kanye West's comments -- the only time the latter had anything to say that was correct. When a moron gets dissed by another moron you KNOW they did something wrong.

West apologized for his remarks yesterday - -

I would tell George Bush, in my moment of frustration, I didn't have the grounds to call him a racist," he said. "But I believe that, in a situation of high emotion like that, we as human beings don't always choose the right words."

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Klein:

JFK received a Pulitzer Prize for Profiles in Courage (no ghost writing) before he was elected a Senator at age 30.

Profiles in Courage was ghost-written. It was an open secret that the late Ted Sorenson was the real author. There is a reason JFK called him his 'intellectual blood bank.' And Joe Kennedy bought thousands of copies of the book to send it up the bestseller list. Honestly, you can't be so naive as to believe half of what you have written here...

Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar.

Christopher Hitchens liked to point out Clinton never finished his program of studies...

Carter was a nuclear physicist.

I can't believe people still buy that one. He called allowed himself to be called a nuclear engineer but even that was an act of larding his resume.

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Klein2,

You are the kind of person who would be shocked if you had seen and heard a tenth of what I have seen during my political work.

No, sorry. I am not that 'kind of person'. I have seen plenty, thanks. However, my position still stands. While Bush's actions can be called into question, he is not a simpleton and calling him one (or a monkey etc) merely lowers the level of discourse. It is not a fact that he is unintelligent, nor it is a fact he is a simpleton. You mention that Reagan was the governor of (freaking) California. If that is supposed to be proof of not being a simpleton, the fact that Bush was governor of freaking Texas should provide the same proof. The fact is simplest name calling detracts from any intelligent criticism of the man.

Until someone can show me concrete proof of this lack of Bush's IQ (not the man's actions/words, but his actual IQ), I think the suggestion is merely hogwash.

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ETA 'simplistic name calling'

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Truth,

He's a simpleton. Affable perhaps, but nonetheless a smirking frontman that was used many times in this role before becoming the ultimate Decider of the USofA.

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He's a simpleton. Affable perhaps, but nonetheless a smirking frontman that was used many times in this role before becoming the ultimate Decider of the USofA.

But trite, silly comments like that fail miserably to explain how Britain's most 'brilliant' PM in decades happily did his bidding.

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"I certainly underestimated him."

Not only that, you misunderestimated him.

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It is not a fact that he is unintelligent, nor it is a fact he is a simpleton. You mention that Reagan was the governor of (freaking) California.

George W. Bush intelligent? He's an incurious halfwit. I prefer Nancy Reagan's nickname for him: the village idiot.

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Looks like yabits misunderestimated him too, heh heh.

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George W. Bush intelligent? He's an incurious halfwit.

You mean the only U.S. president ever to hold an MBA; and from Harvard nonetheless (a matter of public record, btw, unlike the liberal's idol currently occupies of the White House who refuses to release any of his college transcripts)? That George W. Bush?

RR

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You mean the only U.S. president ever to hold an MBA; and from Harvard nonetheless (a matter of public record...

Ooooo, an MBA... Was that before he bathed his brain in alcohol for well over a decade?

That President Obama had the prestigious position of heading up the Harvard Law Review is a matter of public record. Like Bush's drunk driving record.

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That President Obama had the prestigious position of heading up the Harvard Law Review is a matter of public record.

Affirmative action is something to brag of?

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Madverts, yabits et al,

Again, Bush is not a simpleton. Pointing out his actions does not prove him a simpleton even if it might prove the actions themselves simple. Do you understand the meaning of the expression 'IQ'. I think you do not. Look it up. Then please attempt to find me any evidence of Bush's 'simpleton/halfwit' IQ. So far, you have failed admirably.

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Then please attempt to find me any evidence of Bush's 'simpleton/halfwit' IQ.

This is actually easy, thetruthhurts (Oh, does it ever). Here's the challenge: Go to Bush's memoirs or ANY of his public speeches and provide the most intelligent line that you know he wrote himself.

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I can't wait to read GWB's book. I bet if you read it, it would surprise you.

I also can't wait to see Oliver Stone's "W" movie (I haven't seen it yet). By all accounts, it makes GWB a likeable guy even to all the haters.

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Canadian reviews of Decision Points lament the scant attention paid to Canada. Probably Dubya, the Decider, was gettin back at Chretien, who was in Saddam's pocket, and had some very shady ties to oil men in France, by way of his daughter's marriage to an exec who was connected to TotalFina Elf. Very shameful stuff. I will check and see what the Australian press has to say about the memoirs of John Howard's good buddy.

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yabits,

It is evidently so easy that you cannot do it. Again, you talk about Bush's actions. I am asking you for something quite clear. You claim he is a simpleton. I asked you to show me evidence of this supposed 'simpleton' IQ. I assume you speak and understand English, which the language you are using in this discussion. Yet, after claiming the ease with which you can do it, you fail completely to do it. As such, I continue to believe it to be true. All this BS of calling him a simpleton or comparing him to a monkey smashing its fists on a keyboard ring both hollow and lame. Try again, this time with actual facts about his IQ. Thanks.

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ETA: As such, I continue to believe it to be untrue.

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GW Bush' message on compassion, faith, benevolence and Christianity still resonates to-day! I think amongst the Tea Partiers, he's still remembered with pride and teary-eyes.

He has truly changed the values of some AMERICANS with his message of Compassionate Conservatism-- and I think it, Compassionate Conservatism, still resonates to-day amongst the supporters of the Tea Party grassroot movement!

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I will check and see what the Australian press has to say about the memoirs of John Howard's good buddy.

It did well-- I believe.

Former Australian Prime Minister John Howard's Lazarus Rising: A Personal and Political Autobiography landed the top spot in the Non-Fiction bestseller list on its first week of release, with almost 7,000 copies sold according to official Nielsen Bookscan data. Australia's former Prime Minister John Howard's Lazarus Rising: A Personal and Political Autobiography. The memoir has also claimed first place on the Dymocks Bestseller charts released yesterday while topping the Non-Fiction bestseller list with 6,590 copies sold. (Int'l Business Times)

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Again, you talk about Bush's actions. I am asking you for something quite clear. You claim he is a simpleton. I asked you to show me evidence of this supposed 'simpleton' IQ.

Again, a person reveals their intelligence through their writing and speaking. I can't find a single quote by Bush that doesn't reveal an inferior mind.

I assume you speak and understand English, which the language you are using in this discussion. Yet, after claiming the ease with which you can do it, you fail completely to do it.

Yes, English! And, oh, how easy. Bush was on O'Reilly's show yesterday talking about his memoirs and Bill asked him a question about current affairs in Washington. Bush's response: "You're trying to drag me into the politics of this, and I just won't be drug into it. I'm the retired guy."

Drug into it? A high-schooler with a normal IQ and the ability to speak the language knows that "drug" is not anywhere near correct. As George said, in one of his most famous quotes: "There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — [pauses] — shame on you. Fool me — [pauses] — You can't get fooled again."

"Rarely is the question asked,... our... is our children learning?"

Perhaps you could find something that might reveal a higher IQ.

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ahhh yabits. your must be correct. and yet... Bush was a Yale and Harvard grad, and was President of the US.

What do you do? Ahhh, english teacher.

I can't wait to read the book!

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I also can't wait to see Oliver Stone's "W" movie (I haven't seen it yet). By all accounts, it makes GWB a likeable guy even to all the haters.

Don't bother-- it's over-cooked...

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"I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees."

"I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn't do my job."

"Do you have blacks, too?" (to Brazilian President Fernando Cardoso.)

Still, the guy graduated from Yale and Harvard, right? So these quotations are obviously some kind of indication of genius.

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ahhh yabits. your must be correct. and yet... Bush was a Yale and Harvard grad, and was President of the US....I can't wait to read the book!

You make it sound as though you never heard of legacy scholarships. Bush never got into those schools because of his academic merits, but because he was born into a wealthy family who attended them and donated to them.

The consummate tale of simpleton leaders like Bush and his fawning followers has been written long ago: The Emperor's New Clothes.

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yabits,

I certainly am not the one in any pain. You continue to point to actions, but you absolutely have not shown any proof of a 'simpleton' IQ, or even a subpar IQ on the part of Bush. It truly strikes me that you have no idea what the letters 'IQ' stand for. I will give you a hint: they do not stand for words and actions. They stand for the intelligence quotient of a person. You have (it seems quite completely and incorrectly) been suggesting Bush's IQ is that of a simpleton. I asked you to proof his intelligence level. You have not been able to do this. This suggest that you not only do not have a grasp on the meaning of IQ, but you also seem to be struggling to understand what a simpleton is.

Neither Obama nor Bush are idiots, simpletons or whatever one might choose to toss into the mix to thinly mask their dislike for the individuals in question. I remain solidly convice of this.

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I always kind of felt like I was caught in the middle. I'd cringe when Bush made a stupid comment, then I'd have to cringe again when the anti-Bush crowd made an equally stupid comment about Bush. I did a lot of cringing during that 8-year period...heh. You had things like "Mission Accomplished" vs. "No blood for oil" and "We invaded to fight terrorism" vs. "He invaded to avenge hid daddy."

Probably Bush's greatest crime was to give even the dumbest people a feeling that they could make a smart comment about politics. People who probably couldn't name more than 5 Presidents somehow felt they were in a position to call him the worst president ever. Others were throwing around completely made-up numbers like a million dead with impunity. Any way you slice it the net result was a severe dumbing down of politics, a lot of what we're seeing today. The "I'm against everything Obama does" group is basically copying the script from the "I'm against everything Bush does" crowd.

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The "I'm against everything Obama does" group is basically copying the script from the "I'm against everything Bush does" crowd.

Exactly. Both of these of peas from the same pod of intellectual laziness that compels these folks to attempt to making sweeping and ridiculous claims that either Bush or Obama are somehow completely unintelligent.

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You continue to point to actions, but you absolutely have not shown any proof of a 'simpleton' IQ, or even a subpar IQ on the part of Bush.

So, what you appear to claim is that, despite all of the stupid actions and statements, Bush might really be a genius -- a regular Mensa fellow putting on just one big dumb act.

Nancy Reagan summed it up neatly when she referred to him as "the village idiot." I believe she had all the evidence she needed.

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I don't appear to be claiming anything. I am clearly stating that George W. Bush does not have a simpleton IQ or anything near it. I am further stating that your name calling should be reserved for the kindergarten playground and not intelligent discourse. Considering the many ridiculous said about her own husband, Nancy Reagan should have known better, as should you.

You incorrectly seem to think being a bad speaker automatically means evidence of a simpleton IQ. I disagree and asked you for something that shows this lack of IQ you claim. Again, I am not asking you for speeches or actions. I am asking for your specific back up of your ridiculous claim that Bush is a simpleton. However, it is obvious to all and sundry that you absolutely cannot do this and are suffering from the intellectual laziness I wrote off earlier, which is so common in the US amongst strong supporters of one side or the other.

Straight out, do you know Bush's IQ or not? If you do, what is it? Does that IQ equal that of a simpleton? If not, you should back off and admit your obvious error.

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The Lovenstien Institute of Pennsylvania studies and publishes a report on the IQ of each president.

According to statements in the report, there have been twelve presidents over the past 50 years, from F. D. Roosevelt to G. W. Bush who were all rated based on scholarly achievements, writings that they alone produced without aid of staff, their ability to speak with clarity, and several other psychological factors which were then scored in the Swanson/Crain system of intelligence ranking.

Those presidents with the highest IQs were Clinton (182), Kennedy (174) and Carter (175). Nixon, at 155, was the Republican with the highest IQ. George W. Bush came in dead last at 91. On the scale, he is a veritible simpleton amongst his presidential peers.

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My previous post comes from a source that I no longer trust, as persuasive as the results may appear.

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Yabits - I can't believe you fell for the well-known hoax about Bush's purported IQ.

Wikipedia has some additional info related to the subject however, on a page that discusses the hoax you fell for:

"In 2006, a study based on varied and often subjective historical material analyzed with the tools of historiometry was published in the journal Political Psychology. It estimated IQs for all US presidents, and validated the headline of the hoax, which stated Bush's was the lowest of any president in the last 50 years. It rated G.W. Bush second to last since 1900, with an estimated IQ of 125 (the estimate ranged from 111 to 139). Bush's estimated IQ was only higher than those estimated for Grant (120), Monroe (124), and Harding (124). The same study estimated president Bill Clinton's IQ at 149, behind only those of Kennedy (151), Jefferson (154) and J. Quincy Adams (169).[10] In an interview, the study's director noted that "Bush may be 'much smarter' than the findings imply" but that he "scores particularly unimpressively for 'openness to experience, a cognitive proclivity that encompasses unusual receptiveness to fantasy, aesthetics, actions, ideas and values.' "[11][12][13]"

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Yabits - I can't believe you fell for the well-known hoax about Bush's purported IQ

I fell for it temporarily, but should have done some checking before I made my initial post.

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I fell for it temporarily, but should have done some checking before I made my initial post.

Absolutely true, and by initial post, I would assume you mean your first incorrect post suggesting Bush has a simpleton IQ. You really want to believe it so badly you fell for an extremely well-known hoax.

Anyway, you were incorrect. Bush does not have the IQ of a simpleton. The reason you cannot find anything to suggest otherwise is because it does not exist. You should admit you were mistaken, as you have in falling for the hoax, and move on with your life. Don't worry, nobody is going to judge your IQ merely based on your falling for an obvious hoax.

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"I hope 'Decision Points' will help my fellow Democrats to see why I like George Bush, in spite of our differences, and will encourage all Americans, whatever our politics, to be more open to listening to and working with those with whom we disagree. America needs that now."

==== Bill Clinton

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Don't worry, nobody is going to judge your IQ merely based on your falling for an obvious hoax.

In my field, it is said that the best diagnostician is the one to realize they're taking a wrong course -- which I, of course, did on my own. (And it didn't take me 20 years to realize it.)

You really want to believe it so badly you fell for an extremely well-known hoax.

That is not the reason. It is the man's stupid behavior that gave the hoax its credibility. Unlike yourself, evidently, I believe that stupid behavior is a direct sign of a lack of intelligence. Becoming an aimless, loutish drunk for nearly 20 years is very unintelligent behavior, indeed.

The loutishness continued into Bush's presidency with his inability to admit his mistakes. (Perhaps his defenders believe that he was so smart he never made any mistakes.)

On his book tour, Bush demonstrated this unintelligent behavior when questioned about water-boarding. He didn't want to hear that criminal charges were levied against those who had water-boarded American servicemen during WWII. He completely let his mind be made by a handful of ultra-conservative lawyers his team had cherry-picked.

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"I hope 'Decision Points' will help my fellow Democrats to see why I like George Bush,

Bill Clinton likes a lot of things that I don't happen to.

And I have no problem listening to those with whom I happen to disagree.

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Bill Clinton's remarks raises an interesting irony. Several, actually, since it's always interesting when those who virulently opposed Clinton use his words to try to make a point.

I doubt if the memoirs include the fact that the Clinton administration told Bush that terrorism was going to be the biggest and most immediate problem facing the country. The WTC was already attacked once, as had two embassies in Africa and the USS Cole.

The memoirs do not include the fact that one of Bush's early moves was to cut the counter-terrorism budget of the FBI. Nor do they mention his administration's incompetent handling of the "20th hijacker" picked up at a flight school(!) nearly one month before the 9/11 attacks. It's as if they took Bill Clinton's words of warning and consciously made an effort to take an opposite tack.

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Unlike yourself, evidently, I believe that stupid behavior is a direct sign of a lack of intelligence.

Your believe is wrong. While such behavior can be a sign of a lack of intelligence, it is absolutely not directly related. In all your years, it is amazing you have never met intelligent people that act unintelligently and unintellegent people who have acted intelligently. I think you need to meet more people.

The main point here though is your continued lack of ability to admit your mistake in claiming Bush has a simpleton IQ. I mean, it has been quite a few days now with no concrete results on your part and yet you push ahead like a bull in a china shop. You were wrong. You should do what you claim Bush should have done and admit you were wrong. Bush does not have a simpleton IQ and using this simpleton caricature is plain intellectual laziness. You see, I know you have been looking furiously for proof of Bush's supposed low IQ. You even went so far as to believe an obvious hoax merely because it fit with the image of the caricature you created in your mind.

Bottom line, you were and are absolutely wrong about Bush's IQ and the result is that it is harder to take your other arguments seriously because of it. Ironically, you seem to be acting in the way you claim Bush is. Maybe you ought to take your own advice and admit your error.

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While such behavior can be a sign of a lack of intelligence, it is absolutely not directly related.

OK, so you accept that there can be a connection. Drinking one's life away aimlessly for nearly two decades is not just an isolated example of dumb behavior -- it's chronic stupidity.

it is amazing you have never met intelligent people that act unintelligently and unintellegent people who have acted intelligently.

Of course, when genuinely intelligent people act unintelligently it is more the exception rather than the rule. Likewise the unintelligent person who sometimes, somehow, gets it right.

If I am wrong about Bush's IQ, there should be an abundance of examples of his intelligent behavior and sayings. He just had someone write a book for him. I can't find anything in it that suggests anything above a mediocre mind at the very best.

Of course, you could supply an example or two that supports your position that I am somehow wrong. Failing to do that, there is no justification for changing my position. Since the actual IQ score is not made public, it is equally possible that you might be wrong in your position.

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OK, so you accept that there can be a connection.

In life? Yes. In this case? No. Furthermore, you have not proven your claim that there is a connection in this case. Bush is public figure. Prove your claim.

Drinking one's life away aimlessly for nearly two decades is not just an isolated example of dumb behavior -- it's chronic stupidity.

BS. Alcoholism has nothing to do with IQ. You are really dragging the level of conversation lower and lower.

If I am wrong about Bush's IQ

You are, plain and simple. The proof? You cannot prove your claim. You have been trying to find proof, but cannot.

Since the actual IQ score is not made public, it is equally possible that you might be wrong in your position.

Not actually true and I believe you know this. I believe when you found your one hoax that 'proved' your incorrect claim, you decided to ignore all the other links that did not fit into your caricature of Bush as having a simpleton IQ. Go back and check them out with an open mind and be an adult and come back and admit you are wrong. Because you are.

Moderator: Readers, that ends discussion on Bush's IQ. Please focus your comments on his memoirs.

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I dunno, Yabits....seems that you were arguing the exact opposite point in a previous thread, speaking of a former friend who spoke with exceptionally poor grammar:

Yabits: A guy I was stationed with in the Navy spoke that way. He was one of the finest and most capable technicians I ever ran across. And I never judged a book by its cover again after that. On the other hand, I know a lot of people who can speak in a polished manner, but really don't have a clue in their heads.

Maybe you just say what you want to say then change your mind later when you need to make a different point.

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I dunno, Yabits....seems that you were arguing the exact opposite point in a previous thread, speaking of a former friend who spoke with exceptionally poor grammar:

Yabits: A guy I was stationed with in the Navy spoke that way. He was one of the finest and most capable technicians I ever ran across. And I never judged a book by its cover again after that. On the other hand, I know a lot of people who can speak in a polished manner, but really don't have a clue in their heads.

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In his memoirs, Bush talks of his decision to authorize torturing prisoners. "Lawyers told me it was legal so I said let's do it."

During the tour to promote the memoirs, Bush brushed aside all questions relating to the criminal proceedings brought by the US and other nations against those who used waterboarding. I guess he needed his lawyers there to argue for him, since he obviously couldn't think for himself.

I dunno, Yabits...

Always nice to read an accurate statement.

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Well you obviously aren't going to find much accuracy by reading your own posts. Not only did you fall for an obvious hoax, you've completely contradicted your position from a previous thread. With that in mind I think it's fair to question the credibility of your comments about Bush's memoirs. Your opinion mostly irrelevant at this point.

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Not only did you fall for an obvious hoax

True, one that I caught myself, and admitted as soon as I did. However, if it was obvious, I wouldn't have fallen for it.

you've completely contradicted your position from a previous thread.

Totally false. The "previous thread" once contained a post with much more detail about the example that simply was deleted -- making it possible for those of a certain ilk to take a sentence out of context and post it here.

With that in mind I think...

With that in mind, it's plain to see you are not thinking.

it's fair to question the credibility of your comments about Bush's memoirs

It's always fair to raise questions about the comments about the memoirs. Where are they? You seem to favor attacks on the individuals raising the comments, supplementing them with out-of-context fragments in a futile attempt to play "gotcha."

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bush was a dolt, what his IQ is who cares. He was a total failure as a president and the facts prove this out. only the fantasy-based crowd pretends otherwise.

His books are no doubt being purchased by oil companies to which he gave two wars based on lies,basically for the oil.

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Bush's memoirs reveal that, during the 2006 mid-term election campaign, Senator Mitch McConnell came to him to request some help for Republican candidates.

What could Bush do? McConnell's advice was to -- get this -- withdraw some troops from Iraq. At the very same time, McConnell was castigating anyone among the Dems who advocated troop reductions as being in favor of "cutting and running."

Amazing.

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I found Bush to be an uninspiring candidate (only slightly better than Gore) and a mediocre president, but I have always enjoyed how he outrages Lefties.

Of course, the rage these days is harder to understand. Is it because Obama has undone almost nothing Bush put in place, and has in fact stepped up our presence in Afghanistan?

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His books are no doubt being purchased by oil companies to which he gave two wars based on lies,basically for the oil.

What oil companies profited, specifically?

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makes good toilet paper.

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However, if it was obvious, I wouldn't have fallen for it.

It was and you did. The hoax has been on the internet for more than 9 years. In any search, the fact it is a hoax also comes up. Again, I would not disagree the Bush presidency made a heck of a lot of mistakes and there is lots ot criticize. I question the jumping on the silliness wagon for the sake of the ride. Stick with facts and you will be taken seriously.

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Trying to say bush is smart because he went to Ivy League schools would hold a lot more water if his professors didn't describe him as intellectually lazy and underwhelming.

Taka

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Had he himself written and published it it would be unreadable, I'm sure. It'd be like the monkeys bashing at the keyboard (except bush would never be able to recreate the works of Shakespeare, of course). As it is, he probably had someone on hand to translate moron-to-English, and a few hundred editors to fix things so that you can read it.

Does anyone know how to translate Moron Monkey to English? I'd like to know what this means.

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Taka313,

You have not made your case at all. As such, your suggestion Bush is not smart hold even less water. This is what is known as intellectual laziness. Thanks for the demo.

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thetruthhurts,

Hey, if you don't like what his professors had to say about bush, don't take it out on me.

And if you can't figure out that underwhelming and intellectually lazy equal not very bright, well, you have more problems than trying to defend george bush's intelligence.

It's like this pal, I've been to Alpine Valley, Wisconsin dozens of times. Doesn't make me a rock star. It doesn't include me in the Grateful Dead. It just means I was there.

Taka

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Taka313,

Unless Bush's professors measured his intelligence, their opinions do not count. I am not attempting to defend Bush's intelligence. I am asking you to defend your claim. Your claim that Bush has sub-par intelligence seems to have no basis in reality. Prove your case or admit you cannot and move on.

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what has bush done in the last two years, nothing. Why, because he is not able to hold a thought and he has interest in nothing. The proof he is a dolt is right in front of you if you care to see it, of course that takes some minimal power of observation.

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zurcronium,

Please provide proof or give it a rest already.

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The best thing about George W. Bush is that he continues to inspire the fanatical and completely irrational hatred of those on the failed Left wing of politics. It is certainly worth buying his memoirs for that reason alone! :)

Hasn't the NPR set noticed that Obama has largely kept the Bush presidency alive and well on issues like Don't Ask Don't Tell (originally created by President Clinton) or the War in Afghanistan??

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So all the school libraries in the States bought a copy. Next ?

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thetruthhurts,

Well silly me. No one has any proof of anyone's intelligence without proper testing. Obviously a college proffessor has no basis in judging or grading a person's intelligence without testing.

So bush's professors either never tested bush or when they said he was intellectually lazy and underwhelming, they were speaking from the test.

OR...there is the possibility that people can make informed opinions.

Taka

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what has bush done in the last two years, nothing. Why, because he is not able to hold a thought and he has interest in nothing. The proof he is a dolt is right in front of you if you care to see it, of course that takes some minimal power of observation.

Admittedly I don't think GB ever professed to be a Rhodes Scholar, but contrary to your comment I think it takes a wise man to know when perhaps it's best to lay low and keep quiet. Quite often it is those who know when to shut up that prove much more intelligent and insightful than those that never will.

As far as intelligence testing goes, I think that's highly overrated. Some of the smartest people I know might not score so high on an IQ test, but have a sense about them that transcends 'book learning'. Conversely, some of the dumbest people I know have several papers hanging on their walls claiming them to be nothing short of brilliant - which they in fact are. A nuclear physicist might be 'smarter' than a mountain man, but which one will survive a month alone in the woods? Sorry, perhaps a bit too metaphysical, but you get my point.

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which they in fact - are not; wish this bloody thing had an edit function.

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Taka313,

You still don't get it. I am not arguing that Bush has not said and done unintelligent things. I am strongly arguing that there is no evidence that the man is actually not intelligent and even less evidence that he has low intelligence. If you have any proof otherwise, please present it. If not, I think it is time you admit it and move on.

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taka313

No one has any proof of anyone's intelligence without proper testing. Obviously a college proffessor has no basis in judging or grading a person's intelligence without testing.

Transcripts can tell a lot. Why cant we see Obama's? You would think he'd be eager to show what he did at Columbia and Harvard...

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Why cant we see Obama's?

They got put in a pile, right next to bush's military records. Still want to find them?

Taka

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Yes - Bush isn't running in 2012

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They got put in a pile, right next to bush's military records. Still want to find them?

Lame.

Try again?

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