Bush urges Americans to be proud of country

Umm, OK bush, whatever you say.

If this is what exactly he said, it is 'powerless' speech.

Combining political goal and God's desire always produces an absolutely powerful direction for a country to move forward.

Proud?? Some 50 million people have no health insurance whilst billions are wasted every month on a useless war in Iraq.....

I don't think it hurts to be proud of America as long as one doesn't lose the ability to be constructively critical of it. If one or the other has to be sacrificed, I'd say that we should lose the pride.

What doth pride go before?

Although the president was speaking to all Americans, I think he was especially urging Democrats, who usually just tear their country down, to be proud of their country.

I think that most of us are quite Proud of the United States. I suspect a far greater number may be less proud of their President.

"some 50 million people have no health insurance"

And 250 million do have health insurance. A lot of those who don't have it choose not to have it.

What do you expect him to say, "I messed up and we are up to our ankles in shyte(while doing a handstand)".

Nah, be proud of america and its history and achievement but at the same time also acknowledge the bad stuff.

Most of the world is doing it.

Whenever I go elsewhere, be it a quick trip across the border to Canada or farther away, I always feel a sense of relief to be home after passing through immigration/customs. For me, the USA does really have the best life has to offer. But unconditional pride in your country easily morphs into chest-thumping nationalism which can only be sustained by disparaging other countries (and their citizens).

Fine line between patriotism and jingoism and I think many americans crossed it.

"Bush urges Americans to be proud of country"

Heh, after he has spent 8 years working as hard aspossible to destroy it?

Tough call! :-)

I think he is just talking to Republicans, who have supported Bush's wholesale destruction of a once proud nation, in a last ditch attempt to get out the vote for the Republican wannabe Sen. McCain.

Bush urges Americans to be proud of country

And therein lies the problem with the bush presidency.

I don't know a single American that isn't proud of their country. We are all proud of America and her achievements. bush is not America, however. Most of us are not proud of him. We are the polar opposite in fact.

The problem is that this twit feels he IS the country, much like he feels he IS the law.

The only thing he truly IS, is a stain on humanity and the worst president my country has ever seen.

Taka

"Bush urges Americans to be proud of country." At the same time, I would urge Americans to be disgusted with their government.

"uphold the principle that human freedom is the birthright of all people and a gift from the Almighty"

Where does he get this? According to Jacob Weisberg's biography of GWB "there is no theological basis for democracy as God's chosen system of government. The Old Testament favors monarchy, the New Testament communism."

I can only hope GWB's successors abandons this type of faith-favored foreign policy.

Really good post Taka, however, you might try and be a little more forceful in your arguments (laughing).

Bush urging Americans to be proud of their nation is like Hitler urging Germans to be proud of the Third Reich.

Ummm, Nowhere in the article does he 'urge' Americans to proud of their country.

AP has the headline

Bush honors troops, new Americans in radio address

Crap headline designed to inflame, worked by the way.

"Bush urging Americans to be proud of their nation is like Hitler urging Germans to be proud of the Third Reich."

Anyone can do the old "Bush is Hitler, America is Nazi Germany" bark at passing cars.

Let's have your Vichy analogy.

Nice strike hitting with the traitors format......Vichy equals traitor....I like the way you come at folks.

Try this one on for size, Bush and the administration did not begin this war for oil like many think. The war was started to protect the US Dollar. If Saddam would have been allowed to get off the sanctions he would sold his countries dollars and bought Euro`s. The US dollar would have taken a hard hit and not recouped very quickly.

But instead the Admin made up a toy story about Saddam has WMD, Saddam=Bin Ladin, Saddam=Satan and so on just to have their war. AT the beginning of the war they had a fellow by the name Chalabi in their corner. Anyone remember this putz?

Well Chalabi had been feeding info first to dumb dumb bubba Clinton then he fed the Bushes. Well the rest is history........

Now we have right wingers claiming that they love freedom and hate TERRORIST. They yell and scream about the evil people are outside your door and we are the only one that will save you.

But they fail to mention that they dont have a bloody clue on how to repair what they and their right-wing party started.

So I say, get the hell out and help but dont get involved. You republicans have yet to learn from the history of the region like the Brits did.

If America puts another right-wing fanatic in office there will be no America by the time he leaves office. BTW McCain is nutz, he doesnt even remember where he is let alone who he will be fighting.

I have a feeling that Americans' "pride in their country" will increase significantly after President Bush has exited the world stage...

"(American right wing fanatics) yell and scream about the evil people are outside your door..."

JayBee, I keep my doors and windows open about all the time I'm home and I can't say I've had these strange visitations. If I had had one, I geedee guarantee it would only have happened once.

What do you do when they come to "your door"? And why do they persist in visitin' you and no one else in America anyway?

I have a suggestion but it involves one or more firearms.

"Bush urging Americans to be proud of their nation is like Hitler urging Germans to be proud of the Third Reich."

Absurd comment. The differences dwarf the similarities.

I'm very proud to be an American. :)

I'm still trying to figure out why AFP used this Headline. Oh, I'm pretty sure I can make a good guess, but I'd rather let people make their own judgements.

Here is the complete transcript of the speech.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/07/20080705.html

Nowhere does he 'Urge' Americans to be proud of Country.

The Fourth of July is a day when all Americans take a moment to share a collective sense of pride in our country. We live in a Nation founded on the power of an idea, a Nation where opportunity is limited only by imagination, and a Nation that has done more than any other to spread the light of liberty throughout the world. Today, that light shines as brightly as it did in 1776.

Is the closest thing he said that may even be construed as 'urging' and even that would be quite the stretch I think. I don't really care for him or his policies but I don't care for the fact that the media can't just report a story without throwing in bias either. It does no one any favors in a discussion.

In places like Afghanistan and Iraq, many risk their lives every day to protect America

This sort of comment really irks me. If you want to protect America, stay in America and protect it from the inside. The day America visits my country to 'protect America'.....

"Really good post Taka"

I thought it was rather pathetic myself.

Taka313: "This twit.. is a stain on humanity"

Aw, come on, is this your best insult of our president? You can do better than that!

Oh I'm not ungrateful, who wouldn't appreciate USA visiting to protect their own country - its the visit with different motives which annoys me. And the constant changing between "we are in (insert country) to protect them from themselves" to "we are in (insert country) to protect America".

Sorry folks, got nothing personal against Bush Senior, McCain or even Obama. However, I don't understand why so many Americans persist in supporting GW. The guy is as thick as two planks, and a Chickhawk to boot. The little talent his administration had (Colin Powell) headed for the door at the first opportunity.

“These brave Americans make it possible for America to endure as a free society.” I don't know, I would assume it would be my grandfather. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kokoda_trail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Herring

Yes, Mr. President, indeed they do. However, I don't see the point of American lives being wasted in Iraq, a war based on lies (WMD), ignorance (of cultures) and blatant avarice (Halliburton). When I was in the military, war fighting was stressed, not standing on the corner as a quasi-police force acting as targets for everybody with an AK.

Of course, Afghanistan is different, however, you haven't captured OBL, have you? It seems to me that freedom does have a price, however, your understanding of this price mechanism is that it does not have to be paid if somebody else is doing the dying for you.

Let's face it, even though detractors of McCain say he has the wrong end of the stick over the Iraq debate, at least he (or his family) are putting their flesh and blood on the line. About the nearest Bush and Cheney have come to combat is Cheney's attempted assassination of a friend during a hunting expedition.

Finally, I congratulate the US on its Independence Day, it is just "Curious George" who I detest. Instead of pillaring each other in public forums such as JT, why don't you start thinking of a solution to all the problems GW is going to leave you with? The bill for the Iraq war? The declining economy? Global warming? These are all problems have "Curious George" has ignored. Come November, let's hope you all step up to the plate and pick somebody worthy of being President of the United States.

PS. The Japanese wanted to visit your country. Guess who stopped them.

**Come November, let's hope you all step up to the plate and pick somebody worthy of being President of the United States.

That's the problem - they only ever get two to pick from. Confuses me how that is the best way to run a democracy.

The least of my concern is American lives being wasted in Iraq. I sympathise for the Iraqis who have lost their lives due to Washington’s Pathological liar. Bush invaded, occupied and destroyed Iraq and killed or caused the death of over a million innocent people, all on a pack of lies.

sailwind,

I see your point. I think the headline is slightly inaccurate, but only slightly.

I think if I were to define the Fourth of July as "a day when all Americans take a moment to share a collective sense of pride in our country", I don't think anyone could say I was "urging" Americans to be proud. However, when the President uses the power of the bully pulpit to make that statement it becomes more pronouncement than not.

As a pronouncement its logical equivalent is that if you do not take a moment to share this pride, you are not an American. Certainly in that sense he is urging (pressing, pushing, impelling) Americans to join in that sharing.

As if that were not enough, when he extols our troops for their "proud tradition of defending liberty" and invites us to believe that we owe our free society to their service in Iraq and Afghanistan, I think he is certainly doing his best to muster pride among his audience. He does not actually have to say the words, "I hereby urge you all to be proud".

So while the headline does draw a conclusion, it strikes me that it is on balance true. It's not as though he stood up and gave a sober analysis of where things stand today and then announced that each American should decide whether to be proud or not--which is more the case.

In the final analysis, what does it even mean to be "proud of America"? Does it mean nationalistic or patriotic pride? If so, that is not much different--if different at all--than any other nations' pride. For the phrase to have significance I think it can only mean a sense of honor in what your country is today and a sense of hope for what it can be in the future--not for belief in the campfire stories about what it was yesterday.

Try this one on for size, Bush and the administration did not begin this war for oil like many think. The war was started to protect the US Dollar. If Saddam would have been allowed to get off the sanctions he would sold his countries dollars and bought Euro`s. The US dollar would have taken a hard hit and not recouped very quickly.

That is part of the argument put forward by Kevin Phillips, who started his political career as a Republican strategist for the Nixon administration, in American Theocracy: The Perils and Politics of Radical Religion, Oil and Borrowed Money in the 21st Century.

America, in short, was in the throes of several converging crises when GWB was elected: a crisis of ideology since communism no longer presented a threat or posed an ideological alternative to free-market capitalism, a crisis of oil dependency, which loomed large given peak oil measured against future demand; and a crisis of debt, reflected in historically unprecedented levels of household, business, government and foreign trade deficit indebtedness.

Invading Iraq became attractive, Phillips goes on to say, because it would perpetuate the dollar's dominance and assure the US a steady stream of oil as well as platform to evangelize the spread of democracy, our new ideological mission that reflected the rise of the Christian Right in the Republican Party.

"...not for belief in the campfire stories about what it was yesterday."

It is amazing how many of your posts end with very sly entreaties or commentary designed to get the Americans you so often address here to doubt the essential validity of America and of its institutions or to join you in supercilious mockery of the country you claim to be from.

RedMeatKoolAid,

What is really amazing is how often you ignore the essence of a post and zero in on a comment that you do not like.

There is nothing in my post here that mocks America, superciliously or otherwise. If there is, then please point it out.

If you find yourself doubting the essential validity of America and of its institutions, then the doubt is yours. In my opinion if you could own your doubt instead of seeking to blame it on someone else, that would be a good thing.

If it's the phrase "campfire stories" that you object to, yes, that's what I meant to say. Take for example the Fourth of July. It never happened as storied but it does make a good tale. There's a difference between campfire stories and real history. Both are important. Only one is helpful in the correction of error.

Now the main part of my post was about whether Bush was or was not urging Americans to take pride in their country. If you have anything to say about that, just let me know.

The problem with his speech is that it risks making the presidency irrelevant precisely because GWB focused on recounting the glorious past, offering up a historically contested narrative as fact, and did not touch upon the troubled present in which oil has soared above USD 140 a barrel and the stock market experienced its steepest drop since the Great Depression last month.

I'm still very proud to be an American. :)

For the phrase to have significance I think it can only mean a sense of honor in what your country is today and a sense of hope for what it can be in the future--not for belief in the campfire stories about what it was yesterday.

The problem with his speech is that it risks making the presidency irrelevant precisely because GWB focused on recounting the glorious past,

Boy, be nice if you'd actually read the whole thing from link.

He started out with the Declaration of Independence,

Two hundred and thirty-two years ago, our Founding Fathers came together in Philadelphia to proclaim that all men are created equal and that they are endowed by their Creator with unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

And closed with hope for the future.

Today, that light shines as brightly as it did in 1776. And with "the protection of Divine Providence" it will continue to shine brightly for generations to come.

Thank you for listening.

Countdown to the attack on the words 'Divine Providence' in 3,2,1.

Though I don't think ending his speech with 'Today, that light shines as brightly as it did in 1776. And with "the protection of a non specific gender divine being who may or may not exist depending on your spiritual upbringing " it will continue to shine brightly for generations to come. Would have had quite the same effect.

Please read the speech in it's entire context. Obama could have given exactly the same one word for one and no one would have said a peep. It's not the speech it's the guy who gave it and in your world no quarter shall be given when it comes to Bush.

It's not really all that surprising that GWB did not talk about the present. Until last year he talked up "the great economy" ushered in by his tax cuts. In reality it was based on a housing bubble and lots of bad lending. While the latter is not his fault, as a Republican he viewed regulation as bad for the economy and was resistant to recognizing the damage an unregulated financial services sector could do to us (despite having lived through the savings and loan crisis in the 1980s).

Working Americans and their families arrived on the doorstep of the current economic crisis uniquely ill-equipped to cope with its consequences. Rather than having gained a financial protective coating during the period of growth that preceded it, working families up and down the income spectrum were actually nudged further out on an economic limb and therefore were primed for being picked off once problems emerged.

It's not that the growth of the last generation wasn't real; it was. The U.S. economy doubled in size between 1980 and last year. It's not that all of the benefits of the just-past era went to those at the top (although a very substantial chunk did); millions upon millions of Americans prospered right along with the super-rich.

But the prosperity we enjoyed was purchased at a price of diminished security for our families and ourselves. Even as our incomes went up, economic risks -- the costs of being laid off, of suffering a work-stopping illness or of a catastrophe like a house fire -- that were once largely borne on the broad shoulders of business and government were being shifted onto the backs of ordinary families, from the working poor to the reasonably rich.

That means that even before the current crisis struck, families were primed to take steeper financial falls than in the past, ones from which they'd have a harder time recovering. And now that trouble is upon us, they are falling in greater and greater numbers.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-op-gosselin6-2008jul06,0,4670416.story

Sailwind,

My reaction to his speech is informed by living in China in the 1980s during a period of student protests. After each incident the students were required to attend lectures on the CCP's glorious past given by those who'd put their lives on the line to create the present society. That made it hard to refute and many admitted being moved by their tales of hardship to accomplish change they believed in.

But they did nothing to address present concerns. Franklin Roosevelt, by contrast, had an ability to address present-day unease without invoking tales of heroism from the past. That made his presidency quite relevant to the American people in a time of trouble.

I don't know a single American that isn't proud of their country. We are all proud of America and her achievements. bush is not America, however. Most of us are not proud of him. We are the polar opposite in fact.

One simply cannot be proud of America and at the same time proud of what Bush has done to her. Any nation that could let a barely literate twit have the reins of leadership would HAVE to look to the past for reasons to be proud. I look at this guy and feel nothing but embarrassment.

My reaction to his speech is informed by living in China in the 1980s during a period of student protests. After each incident the students were required to attend lectures on the CCP's glorious past given by those who'd put their lives on the line to create the present society. That made it hard to refute and many admitted being moved by their tales of hardship to accomplish change they believed in.

But they did nothing to address present concerns. Franklin Roosevelt, by contrast, had an ability to address present-day unease without invoking tales of heroism from the past. That made his presidency quite relevant to the American people in a time of trouble.

Betzee,

Sheesh, the President of the United States makes a speech on the fourth of July. Talks about the Declaration of Independence, welcomes brand immigrants to our country that just became full fledge citizens, and honors out troops past and present.

What President HASN'T on the Fourth of July?????????

It's the Fourth of July not a day usually set for a policy speech. It's the kind of speech we expect the President to give on the fourth no matter what party.

Sorry, this is is turning into nothing but a Bush bash again and a pretty flimsy one at that when you read his speech.

Sheesh, the President of the United States makes a speech on the fourth of July. Talks about the Declaration of Independence, welcomes brand immigrants to our country that just became full fledge citizens, and honors out troops past and present.

While it's true the national holiday does tend to elicit such speeches, his speech also served as a reminder of his shallow and utopian view of freedom.

Though it didn't draw much press a few months ago GWB, in a videoconference with troops in Afghanistan said "I must say, I'm a little envious. If I were slightly younger and not employed here, I think it would be a fantastic experience to be on the front lines of helping this young democracy succeed. It must be exciting for you … in some ways romantic, in some ways, you know, confronting danger. " If he doesn't recall it, well most of the rest of us do, he took a pass when he had his chance.

Leaders who romanticize the past are often leading societies in decline. It's heartening the American people pay him so little mind anymore.

It's heartening the American people pay him so little mind anymore.

The one good that can come out of this administration on this Fourth of July is for the American people to plot how far we have fallen as a nation, and plan for the work needed to get us out of the hole that the Bush regime has dug for us. The value of the dollar would be a good place to start.

Our path to energy independence as started from the point in the late 1970s when oil and gas were deregulated would be another.

I do give Betzee credit tho...she held out for a few posts....but in the end she can't have people saying positive things about America without dishing out heaping mounds of criticism just to keep us "balanced."

Huh??? You claimed you didn't read my posts. I really do enjoy the posts of those who can present the other side well and I think if you could do that you would spend less time criticizing others.

In a democracy citizens are able to separate government from country. That's something often missing from the posts of war supporters. In that regard, Peter Beinert had an interesting piece in Time on patriotism. He identified the patriotism of the right as emphasizing America's past whereas that of the left holds the ideals embodied in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights dear. Either taken to an extreme is bad. But you have to know your history to be able to weigh in intelligently....

sailwind,

Doesn't your post of 6:58 PM lead by splicing together the posts of two different people and then proceed to ignoring the points of each? It sure looks to me as though it does.

I thought your original complaint was that the headline was faulty. Now you seem to be saying that this is turning into a Bush-bash. I would say that it is more a criticism of what this administration has done, is doing and intends to do but I can see how that might look like a Bush-bash.

I think you are right that Obama could have given the same speech and not drawn any (significant) criticism from his supporters. I don't think it would be right that he could have given the same speech and not drawn criticism from his detractors. Mostly, however, I think that Obama would not have given the same speech.

I don't think there was anything particularly wrong with the President's speech. But I think there is something wrong with suggesting that this headline is somehow unfair. And I think there would be something wrong with suggesting that the President should get a pass on the Fourth of July.

The best way to honor the Founders of the country would be to fix what ails it. To do that, it may not be necessary to rub the President's face in the mess he has made. But I am certain that mythology, staged citizenship ceremonies, selective reading of history and leaning on the troops will not get the job done.

Bill Clinton's optimism dovetailed with the national mood back in 2000. By contrast GWB's is markedly out of step with the pessimism felt by large swathes of the American people as we confront the reality that the future's been spent.

While it's impossible to imagine any president making a holiday address that does not draw upon ideals as well as highlighting national interests, GWB's demonstrated drift into abstraction, incompetent execution and glaring inconsistency sort of undercut the power of his words....

Bill Clinton's optimism dovetailed with the national mood back in 2000. By contrast GWB's is markedly out of step with the pessimism felt by large swathes of the American people as we confront the reality that the future's been spent.

While it's impossible to imagine any president making a holiday address that does not draw upon ideals as well as highlighting national interests, GWB's demonstrated drift into abstraction, incompetent execution and glaring inconsistency sort of undercut the power of his words....

Betzee,

Bush in your world couldn't say a thing that would ever meet with your approval, it's just that simple. I myself would be more concerned if a President didn't wish his Nation a Happy Fourth and remind all of us that we are all Americans no matter what are politics, because of some very smart guys called the founding fathers got together and wrote some of the greatest words ever put to parchment.

every President since Washington has more or less said the same thing on the Fourth of July, and darn near in exactly the same format outlined aboved

Of course, it is more likely that some posters keep spouting the same baloney and in darn near the same format with each post.

There are many exceptions to Bush's standard Republican banalities. FDR's 1941 speech on the Fourth, six months before the attack on Pearl Harbor, was particularly dark and ominous, making use of words that told Americans that they might have to be prepared to give up their very lives. (Woah!)

Today, more than ever before, this would be leapt upon by opponents as "negative" and "pessimistic." Nowadays, the American people want leaders who tell them that they can have it all and someone else will pay the price. That, no matter what time it is, and how dark the gathering clouds are, it's always morning in America.

Anyway, here's hoping that America and the world have the chance to hear President Obama deliver next year's address on the Fourth of July. What a better day that will be.

WhyBee, if Obama becomes president, I will be perversely entertained by what happens next.

-And I ain't just talkin' about what bytes are posted on the daily JT Olympics in cyberspace.

USAR

If a different American had given the same speech, would you guys be OK with that? ;)

FDR's 1941 speech on the Fourth, six months before the attack on Pearl Harbor, was particularly dark and ominous, making use of words that told Americans that they might have to be prepared to give up their very lives. (Woah!)

Ya better get something straight there yabits, while GWB has not asked the country to make any sacrifices to fight the war on terror, he's sure making 'em himself. For example, he acknowledged earlier this year that "I don't want some mom whose son may have recently died to see the commander-in-chief playing golf. I feel I owe it to the families to be as -- to be in solidarity as best as I can with them. And I think playing golf during a war just sends the wrong signal."

As presidential historian Robert Dallek, who wrote several definitive books on LBJ observed, such a remark "speaks to his shallowness. That's his idea of sacrifice, to give up golf?"

Thanks, Betzee, for reminding us all how much GW Bush has been sacrificing.

"Shallow" is a wonderful word, and it speaks to the understanding of history that so many Bush-supporters have. Worthy of note are comedian Lewis Black's words as follows:

"I'm always amazed when I hear people saying; 'That George Bush, he's a great leader'. And I wonder, where can one find a drug that would make one so delusional?"

PTM, Bush's gran'daddy was one of a number of directors in 1942 of this institution you bring up. He wasn't the director as you say. He was "a" director.

Prescott Bush held one whole share of the business. One share, bubba. The powerful Democrat A. Harriman who was sittin' next to him, and whose wife was later an ambassador to France (surprise, surprise), held over 3,900 shares. Your own FOX link tells you that, but you have your agenda.

Now the Nazis had taken over this institution in 1939 or earlier which makes any association you try to tie Bush's gran'daddy in with the Nazis absolutely moot.

Heck, PTM, you don't even bother to read or try to comprehend your own posted links. Is English your first language? Maybe it's not. I'm easy.

Please back up your claims with facts, PTM. -And relevant facts at that. I've checked your Reporters Without Borders and this activist website is just a homepage where nutters can gather and play "news". Are you seriously tryin' to pass them off as a serious source of "news", PTM? Just because somethin's on the Internet doesn't make it true. That's one of the first laws of the 'Net.

Try checkin' Godwin's law and then Occam's Razor.

"Bush’s pornographic disregard for truth and objective facts are simply put nauseating."

Back at ya, my friend.

-And your country is?

USAR

Far from knocking the whole clan I would say GWB's record makes his father's look good by comparison. Specifically not "finishing the job" and taking ownership of Iraq back in 1991 appears, in retrospect, like a prudent act. Similarly, old George's not making a triumphal speech as the Berlin Wall tumbled probably did much more to advance the cause of freedom than a "aircraft carrier " landing type capitalization of the situation would have. The wisdom of avoiding needlessly bellicose rhetoric is now widely appreciated. In short, GHWB's realism, diplomatic skills and essential modesty all advanced American interests.

Damn proud of this country.

Piss poor presidential administration.

Too totally different things. < :-)

Now you seem to be saying that this is turning into a Bush-bash. I would say that it is more a criticism of what this administration has done, is doing and intends to do but I can see how that might look like a Bush-bash.

Sez, still think this thread isn't a Bush basher? ;)

"Bush urges Americans to be proud of country"

Had to be a "liberal" who wrote this. No one has to urge Republicans.

RMKA, that's true, although I'd change your word from "Republicans" to "conservatives".

To paraphase a more important concept, has Obama finally decided that it's "the better part of gettin' elected to wear a US flag pin"?

I just learned McCain has three sons who have been, or are now in, US military service, one havin' recently served in Iraq. Strange McCain doesn't use this for election points...

Didja know "(John Kerry) served in Vietnam"?

Hilarious.

USAR

We've been aware of McCain's sons for quite a while here. You're just catching up. < :-)

A.D.D.... around "here"?

I'd sure like to read that JT story if you can find it.

I can wait.

Thanks.

USAR

I think he meant to say: “We live in a nation founded on the idea of power, a nation limited only by imagination, and a nation that has done more than any other to sleight liberty throughout the world,” the president said in his weekly radio address one day after the nation celebrated Independence Day.

SuperLib,

No, I don't think it's a Bush-basher. Especially not among the posters to whom I actually pay attention.

Furthermore, in my not so humble opinion, I think that for every thread that is a Bush-bash, there is another thread that is labeled as such because, having few good arguments to support the performance of this administration, Bush supporters turn the thread into one.

Look at how this, whatever this is, developed. The first 5 posts criticized emphasis on pride. There was only a single mention of Bush, and that, while disdainful, was acquiescent. The 6th post characterized Democrats as tearing down the country. Who do you think threw down the gauntlet?

Ah, I see. Without the gauntlet being thrown down then this thread would have been Bush-bashing free!

Ahem ... I think the article meant to say ... So what SuperLib, I don't like him or anything he represents. Never have, never will. Not about to start apologizing either.

"I'm always amazed when I hear people saying; 'That George Bush, he's a great leader'. And I wonder, where can one find a drug that would make one so delusional?"

Conservatives/Republicans aren't the only ones who are guilty of being idealogues. Also I think one can still be proud of one's country regardless of the administration. However, having a government worthy of one's pride certainly helps.

It's really difficult to imagine an provincial politician like Carter or Clinton pulling off a brilliant piece of diplomacy like Bush's "Lobster Summit". George W. brought US-Russian relations to an unprecedented high. And anyone who who thinks we can win the global war on terror without good US-Russian relations should probably try drugs to see if they can jostle some brain cells. Bush's presidency has shown tremendous vision and imagination. His diplomacy vis-a-vis China, Russia and N. Korea perfectly illustrate the enlightened pragmatism that is the US at its best.

It's fine to be proud of your country, and it's fine for others to be proud of theirs as well.

Recently I put the teenage daughter of Chinese friends in an American university program for high school students. The other kids I met came from the ranks of those who have enjoyed every advantage American secondary education has to offer. Yet to avoid appearing stupid they simply said "Oh" when they were introduced to their Chinese classmate who'd flown across the Pacific to join them. It was evident they had very little sense of life beyond their own borders. By contrast she could talk at some length about American history and our system of government.

As other powers challenge the US along various dimensions, for example the Russians control of energy resources far beyond what they need for themselves along with the Chinese export juggernaut, we will need to know more about their societies to make informed judgements about the policies our government is pursuing regardless of who is president.

Bush has the lowest approval ratings in the United States of any president since approval ratings began to be taken... Even the Republicans don't stand united with him anymore. He has lost everything. There is nothing left for him.

In all fairness, the economic problems are not all GWB's fault. Yet because he comes across as spectacularly unaware of them, most Americans (75 percent) do blame him. Certainly Republicans would be blaming a Democrat if he were in the WH as gas prices doubled over the course of a year. So I'm not going to shed any tears over the injustice of his predicament.

Patriotism and nationalism are not inherently the same thing, neither are pride and partisanship. To combine these concepts is neither a principled nor intellectually honest view, regarding one's country or anything else. Usually those who do so are making an calculated appeal to what Lincoln called "the better angels of our nature" for some selfish end of their own.

Being proud of America doesn't mean arguing every single thing it ever does is defensible or ripping other countries as "hey, do it better yourself" and shouting "USA USA" at the top of one's lungs to drown out any counterargument. If you love your son, if he commits murder do you have to turn it around and argue the victim deserved to die? That is what some American "patriots" basically view as the only acceptable form of "loyalty." So please, stop with the "Liberals don't love/aren't proud of America nonsense." No party, no creed, no race has a monopoly on patriotism and it is ignorant and poisonous to claim as much. Blind devotion is not the only or best kind, and one should naturally be skeptical of those who brag about possessing loads of it, as if that was something to be proud of in and of itself.

chardk1,

Thank you for a thoughtful post.

Liberals value America's ideals where we often fall short given the policy-making process is filled with self-interested actors. Occasionally one finds a conservative true believer, such as the former WH press secretary Scott McClellan, who, when he finally sees the light, is stunned. Predictably his revelations of the GWB White House were widely condemned by conservatives who confuse loyalty to their cause with loyalty to the country.

As the great Samuel Clemens once said "Patriotism is loving your country all of the time, and loving your government only when it deserves it."

Pride for a price you can pay, there is more to humanity than nationalism.

"Bush has the lowest approval ratings in the United States of any president since approval ratings began to be taken... Even the Republicans don't stand united with him anymore. He has lost everything. There is nothing left for him."

Bush is polling at 30, for people who put stock in such stuff.

Congress is polling at nine percent, the lowest of any Congress.

Evah.

Maruku I think he meant to say: “We live in a nation founded on the idea of power, a nation limited only by imagination, and a nation that has done more than any other to sleight liberty throughout the world,” the president said in his weekly radio address one day after the nation celebrated Independence Day. This from a Japanese whose nation was liberated by the US? This from a Japanese whos nation once tried to conquer Asia? How ironic and hypocritical. The US HAS done many things for the world, including technology, enterprise, spreading democracy and oh yeah, stopping Tojo. You obviously know Jack about History, and one of the worlds rabid America haters, who refuse to look at the good the US has done. Americans, instead of just saying, oh,yeah Japan thats the country that tried to take over the world, and raped 20,000 women in Nanking China among other atrocities, no we say, Japan , a beautiful country with polite people and a great culture. Obviously you don`t believe in Returning the same respect. Shame on you.

congress is an institution made up of 535 members. Bush is one person pretending to be a president. Congressmen get re-elected 97 percent of the time because they have local support. Bush has no support from anyone with an IQ over room temperature.

The USA is great, at least where I am from. Bush is loser that makes the US look bad.

I am proud, have been and always will be to be an American. When I think of the construction of our constitution and declaration of Independence and the wording of it it still awes me. Our founding fathers were so very clever that it can still stand the test of time and work in modern America.

The US is great. I can no longer count the number of foreigners I've met in Japan and on forums such as this who like to pretend it is where they are from. Zurcronium knows what I mean...

I am proud to be a ciitizen of the United States of America. There is no better country on the face of the earth.

If they read the Telegraph - and few do - they were probably more impressed by what this Brit journalist wrote recently concerning GW Bush:

"This is a man who has the courage of his convictions.

Let’s not forget how Europe does wars.

Usually we wait and wait until the enemy starts attacking, then we let them win a bit, then we fight until we are tired, then we just call the US to come over to clean our mess.

That is what happened in WWI, WWII, and the Balkans.

Bush is just showing us what a bunch of dangerous ditherers we are and we hate him for it. Naturally."

oh dear oh dear oh dear

Many of the far-right winger team who post often on JT confuse patriotism with empty rhetoric that borders on propaganda. RedMeatKoolAid knows what I mean.