People wait in line to give blood for the victims of Wednesday night's shooting Thursday in Thousand Oaks, Calif. Photo: AP
world

California bar shooter was ex-Marine; had mental health review

50 Comments
By KATHLEEN RONAYNE and JUSTIN PRITCHARD

The gunman who shot and killed 12 people at a country music bar in a Los Angeles suburb was a former military machine gunner who mental health specialists interviewed earlier this year after a neighbor reported a disturbance.

Ian David Long, 28, served in the Marines for nearly five years, including a seven-month tour in Afghanistan, according to the Pentagon. He left with the rank of corporal in March 2013, divorced soon after, and had been living with his mother in Thousand Oaks.

In April, a neighbor called authorities to report loud noises coming from Long's house. Deputies found Long "was somewhat irate, acting a little irrationally" and called in a mental health specialist, Ventura County Sheriff Geoff Dean said. That specialist assessed Long but concluded he couldn't be involuntarily committed for psychiatric observation.

"The mental health experts out there cleared him that day," Dean told reporters Thursday, less than 12 hours after the Wednesday night massacre.

They also were concerned that Long might be suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, Dean said, "basing that (on) the fact that he was a veteran and had been in the Corps."

A next-door neighbor said he called authorities about six months ago when he heard loud banging and shouting come from the ranch-style home where Long and his mother lived.

"I got concerned, so I called the sheriffs," neighbor Tom Hanson said outside his home Thursday as federal and local law enforcement officers searched Long's house, where an American flag flew over the garage. "I was concerned because I knew he had been in the military."

Hanson described Long as an introvert who never caused him problems and said he was "dumbfounded" by the massacre.

salute.jpg
Law enforcement and fire personnel salute from an overpass as a motorcade with the body of Ventura County Sheriff's Sgt Ron Helus passes by on Thursda in Newbury Park, Calif. Helus was fatally shot while responding to a mass shooting at a country music bar in southern California. Photo: AP

Authorities haven't identified what motivated Long to open fire during college night at Borderline Bar & Grill in Thousand Oaks, a city of about 130,000 people about 40 miles (64 kilometers) from downtown Los Angeles.

The dead included 11 people inside the bar and a veteran sheriff's sergeant who was the first officer through the door. Hundreds fled in terror before Long apparently killed himself.

"Obviously he had something going on in his head that would cause him to do something like this," Dean said.

The Marine Corps said Long earned several awards, including a Combat Action Ribbon and a Marine Corps Good Conduct Medal. He was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 3rd Marine Regiment, Third Marine Division in Kaneohe Bay, Hawaii.

Court records show Long was married in Honolulu in June 2009, and he and his wife separated in June 2011 while he was deployed to Afghanistan. The couple cited irreconcilable differences in divorce papers filed in May 2013, two months after Long left the Marines. Their marriage officially ended that November.

Using a smoke bomb and a handgun, Long, dressed all in black, opened fire at random. Screaming in fear, patrons rushed for the exits, dived under tables and used barstools to smash second-floor windows and jump to safety as gunfire reverberated through the Borderline Bar & Grill, a hangout popular with students from nearby California Lutheran University.

"I dropped to the floor," Sarah Rose DeSon told ABC's "Good Morning America." ''A friend yelled, 'Everybody down!' We were hiding behind tables trying to keep ourselves covered."

The bloodshed was the latest in what seems to be a never-ending string of mass shootings that are happening with terrifying frequency across the United States.

All morning, people looking for missing friends and relatives arrived at a community center where authorities and counselors were informing the next-of-kin of those who died. Many walked past TV cameras with blank stares or tears in their eyes. In the parking lot, people comforted each other with hugs or a pat on the back.

Jason Coffman received the news that his son Cody, 22, who was about to join the Army, was dead. Coffman broke down as he told reporters how his last words to his son as he went out that night were not to drink and drive and that he loved him.

"Oh, Cody, I love you, son," Coffman sobbed.

"Sister Sister" actress Tamera Mowry-Housley and her husband said their 18-year-old niece Alaina Housely, a student at nearby Pepperdine University, was also among those killed . So was Justin Meek, a 23-year-old recent graduate of Cal Lutheran, according to the university.

It was the nation's deadliest such attack since 17 students and teachers were killed at a Parkland, Florida, high school nine months ago. It also came less than two weeks after a gunman massacred 11 people at a synagogue in Pittsburgh.

Democratic Gov-elect Gavin Newsom, in his first public appearance since winning office on Tuesday, lamented the violence that has come again to California.

"It's a gun culture," he said. "You can't go to a bar or nightclub? You can't go to church or synagogue? It's insane is the only way to describe it. The normalization, that's the only way I can describe it. It's become normalized."

President Donald Trump praised police for their "great bravery" in the attack and ordered flags flown at half-staff in honor of the victims.

Long was armed with a Glock 21, a .45-caliber pistol designed to hold 10 rounds plus one in the chamber, according to the sheriff. But it had an extended magazine — one capable of holding more ammunition — that is illegal in California.

The killer also deployed a smoke device, a law enforcement official told The Associated Press. The official was not authorized to discuss the investigation publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity.

Authorities converged on Long's home in Newbury Park, about 5 miles from the Borderline bar, in a search for clues to what set him off.

"There's no indication that he targeted the employees. We haven't found any correlation," a sheriff said. "Maybe there was a motive for this particular night, but we have no information leading to that at all."

Long first shot a security guard standing outside, then went in and opened fire on staff members and patrons, the sheriff said.

Sheriff's Sgt Ron Helus and a passing highway patrolman arrived around 11:20 p.m. in response to several 911 calls, heard gunfire and went inside, the sheriff said. Helus was immediately shot, Dean said.

The highway patrolman pulled Helus out, then waited as a SWAT team and scores more officers arrived. Helus died at a hospital.

By the time officers entered the bar again, the gunfire had stopped, according to the sheriff. They found 12 people dead inside, including the gunman, who was discovered in an office and had apparently shot himself, the sheriff said.

"There's no doubt that they saved lives by going in there and engaging with the suspect," said Ventura County Sheriff Geoff Dean, who was set to retire on Friday. He praised the slain officer — a close friend — as a hero: "He went in there to save people and paid the ultimate price."

One other person was wounded by gunfire, and as many as 15 others suffered minor injuries from jumping out windows or diving under tables, authorities said.

People at the bar fled from all exits, broke through windows and hid in the attic and bathrooms, the sheriff said. He said they seemed to know what to do.

"Unfortunately our young people, people at nightclubs, have learned that this may happen, and they think about that. Fortunately it helped save a lot of lives that they fled the scene so rapidly," he said.

Shootings of any kind are extremely rare in Thousand Oaks, a city of about 130,000 people about 40 miles (64 kilometers) from Los Angeles, just across the county line.

The Borderline, which has a large dance hall along with several smaller areas for eating and drinking, was holding one of its regular "College Country Nights."

Nick Steinwender, Cal Lutheran student body president, told KTLA-TV he immediately started receiving messages about the shooting, and he and his roommate went to the scene to offer rides back to campus or moral support.

"It's going to be a very somber day," Steinwender said. "I know we don't have all the details in yet, but you know, it just feels like it's an attack on our community. You know, I think it's going to be something that we're going to have to come together and move past."

The bar is also close to several other universities, including California State University Channel Islands in Camarillo, Pepperdine in Malibu and Moorpark College in Moorpark.

Cole Knapp, a freshman at Moorpark, said he was inside the bar when the shooting began, but thought at first that it was "just someone with an M-80, just kind of playing a prank." Then he said he saw the gunman, wearing a small black head covering and black hoodie.

"I tried to get as many people to cover as I could," Knapp said. "There was an exit right next to me, so I went through that. That exit leads to a patio where people smoke. People out there didn't really know what was going on. There's a fence right there so I said, 'Everyone get over the fence as quickly as you can,' and I followed them over."

He said he had friends who were unaccounted for.

Tayler Whitler, 19, said she was on the dance floor when she saw the gunman shooting and heard screams of "Get down!"

"It looked like he knew what he was doing," Whitler told KABC-TV.

Around midday, the body of the slain sheriff's officer was taken by motorcade from the hospital to the coroner's office. Thousands of people stood along the route or pulled over in their vehicles to watch the hearse pass. Firefighters use two ladder trucks to raise a giant American flag over the route.

Helus was a 29-year veteran of the force with a wife and son and planned to retire in the coming year, said the sheriff, choking back tears.

© Copyright 2018 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

©2018 GPlusMedia Inc.

50 Comments
Login to comment

America your own fault, this will continue to happen with your stupid gun laws. No pity, you are stupidly trying to blame the media and other things when it all comes down to how you allow nearly anyone to get a gun under the gaze of "freedom"

23 ( +25 / -2 )

PTSD...Divorce, result, suicide by cop. Not all people suffering take this route, and thankfully so, and it doesn't justify the actions, but HOPEFULLY this will turn a very bright light on the men and women in the armed forces, and those that have gotten out too, regarding the pain and suffering they are going through with PTSD.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

We'll soon hear gunner nutters screaming how this guy's mental health issues are to blame and not the firearm. We'll also hear about how ineffective firearm control laws are because this guy had an illegal high-capacity clip.

If everyone in the US didn't have such easy access to firearms, we wouldn't have to worry as much about people with mental health issues having such easy access to firearms.

If places with strict firearms control laws were isolated from places without firearm control laws, the firearm control laws would be far more effective.

15 ( +17 / -2 )

There are many countries in the world where people can have guns but shooting incidents happen most often in the U.S.A. Why is that?

11 ( +11 / -0 )

Senseless deaths, yet many will believe that their right to dangerous toys is worth more than the lives of the victims.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

RIP to all innocents lives lost. Once again. Knock wood those physically injured will recover completely. Knock wood those affected emotionally will be able to get the support they need to recover. Condolences to all who lost friends, family members and acquaintances. 

Thank you to all law enforcement and emergency service responders. You earn every cent of your hard earned pay, especially when having to deal with tragedies like this.

Taxpayers at all levels, city, county, state and federal, it’s too bad that once again you’ve got to pick up the tab for another gun massacre. It could well be this event further increases your taxes.

The only people benefitting are those in the guns and ammo businesses; they’ll probably see increased sales afterward.

This, like all other gun massacres of innocents, has to be looked at as a complex dynamic made up of any number of variables. The one thing that I’ve noticed in all gun massacres, the one thing that ties them all together, the one way they are all alike is

a human with a GUN fired BULLETS to kill innocent people.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

PTSD...Divorce, result, suicide by cop. Not all people suffering take this route, and thankfully so, and it doesn't justify the actions, but HOPEFULLY this will turn a very bright light on the men and women in the armed forces, and those that have gotten out too, regarding the pain and suffering they are going through with PTSD.

PTSD is a very serious problem and it seems it was to some extent addressed, but there is room for improvement and a middle ground that can be reached, taking guns away and placing the blame on guns is not the issue and is a losing argument that can be beaten every time, but there are things that we can do from strengthening soft targets, arming security guards, have medical and mental weekly evaluation, better monitoring especially if it is proven you are more volatile, then you should not be allowed to purchase, carry or have any firearms in your home. Emotions won’t solve this issue, solutions and a middle ground will.

-17 ( +2 / -19 )

Chip S - If everyone in the US didn't have such easy access to firearms, we wouldn't have to worry as much about people with mental health issues having such easy access to firearms.

If we can't solve 12M illegal immigrants walking around the USA, what makes you think we can solve 300M firearms, inside homes and businesses that 90% of the owners won't give up?

The time where it may have been possible has passed 80 yrs ago.

What is a realistic solution?

A marine who wants to kill KNOWS how to kill. Access to a firearm just makes it easier, but having no access wouldn't stop it.

-14 ( +1 / -15 )

taking guns away and placing the blame on guns is not the issue

Yes, it is.

and is a losing argument that can be beaten every time

No, it can't.

These are naked assertions with no supporting evidence from someone who has repeatedly demonstrated a lack of ability to research and think logically.

13 ( +16 / -3 )

@bas4 Emotions won’t solve this issue, solutions and a middle ground will.

Until I see the NRA and its membership propose measures to reach 'a middle ground' (How'd the restrictions on bump stocks turn out?), for example by working with those who actually want to take steps to limit gun violence instead of demonizing them, until I see the politicians intimidated by the NRA and its membership willing to take steps to limit gun violence, I'll assume y'all are just going to continue to say shoganai and blame mental health. Which you know you're unwilling to provide more money for. Again, thank the right's Ronald Reagan for starting the programs to cut spending for mental health.

Start by banning ALL semi-automatic weapons for all civilians. Police must enforce existing laws re converting semi-automatics to fully automatic, enforce the no big-magazine laws, the courts must stop wrist slapping violators of existing gun laws, among others.

And further tax all purchases of guns and ammo with funds to be earmarked to finance the costs of gun massacres.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

If we can't solve 12M illegal immigrants walking around the USA, what makes you think we can solve 300M firearms, inside homes and businesses that 90% of the owners won't give up?

Undocumented immigrants are a separate issue, please don't conflate the two. We have had nationwide firearms restrictions before - assault weapons ban - that have been effective. No, it wasn't a cure, but it helped.

The logic you employed dictates that we take no action unless it is 100% effective.

Access to a firearm just makes it easier,

Full stop.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

"The mental health experts out there cleared him that day," Dean told reporters Thursday, less than 12 hours after the Wednesday night massacre.

Why do they call these people "mental health experts" when they are totally incapable of spotting psychosis? An expert is a person who can actually DO something. Let alone not being able to do anything about this guy, these psychs couldn't even SPOT the condition.

Almost ALL of these cases where someone walks into a school or bar, etc., and shoots up a load of people are in the middle of psychiatric "treatment," discharged from a mental health facility as "cured," and/or on psychiatric drugs.

It's about time psychiatry was recognised for the quackery it is.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Yes, it is.

No, it’s not.

No, it can't.

Yes, it can

These are naked assertions with no supporting evidence from someone who has repeatedly demonstrated a lack of ability to research and think logically.

Sorry, that emotional argument it’s not going to work, there is no way on this planet that guns are going to be taking away her that the second amendment will be repealed or even ratified, it’s just not going to happen and if any liberal think so then they are setting themselves up for a very, very big disappointment, it just won’t happen, but the Democrats can try to do whatever they can and really lose votes in they can lose the house over this again, which is fine by me, they know it’s a lose, lose issue and won’t touch it, they can come up with middle ground solutions, but if they want to kill any chances of gaining more power, attack the second amendment, go ahead.

-12 ( +1 / -13 )

have medical and mental weekly evaluation, better monitoring especially if it is proven you are more volatile then you should not be allowed to purchase, carry or have any firearms in your home.

Then you'd have to make sure your mental health services are vastly expanded and are funded adequately. That means higher taxes to pay for it, not exactly a popular notion in American political circles. Also legislation would have to be enacted to limit, curtail and even prohibit gun ownership for some - anathema to far too many in the US.

Emotions won’t solve this issue, solutions and a middle ground will.

Yes. But "emotions" "solutions" and "a middle ground" don't mean the same thing to everyone, as demonstrated on these pages and everywhere else whenever something like this latest incident happens.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Why do they call these people "mental health experts" when they are totally incapable of spotting psychosis? An expert is a person who can actually DO something. Let alone not being able to do anything about this guy, these psychs couldn't even SPOT the condition.

We’re talking the human psyche here. There are no owners manuals or construction specs. Those are some pretty unrealistic expectations you have there.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Until I see the NRA and its membership propose measures to reach 'a middle ground' (How'd the restrictions on bump stocks turn out?),

Personally I think this should be banned and they should be a middle ground on it so I’ll give you credit on that and I’m with you on that one.

for example by working with those who actually want to take steps to limit gun violence instead of demonizing them,

I also agree

until I see the politicians intimidated by the NRA and its membership willing to take steps to limit gun violence, I'll assume y'all are just going to continue to say shoganai and blame mental health. Which you know you're unwilling to provide more money for. Again, thank the right's Ronald Reagan for starting the programs to cut spending for mental health.

Well, on that last part I think Reagan did make a monumental mistake with that, had he not gone that route, I think much of this could have been avoided.

Start by banning ALL semi-automatic weapons for all civilians. Police must enforce existing laws re converting semi-automatics to fully automatic, enforce the no big-magazine laws, the courts must stop wrist slapping violators of existing gun laws, among others. 

Not unreasonable request.

And further tax all purchases of guns and ammo with funds to be earmarked to finance the costs of gun massacres.

On that one, I have to vehemently disagree with you, but on everything else, I think there is room to come to some viable agreement.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

Maybe it's merely the human cost of dirty business (wars)

3 ( +3 / -0 )

PTownsend and ChipStar,

Sorry, your downvotes came from me and weren't intended - I hit 'up' and got a 1-1 response.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

We’re talking the human psyche here

We're talking about the most complex organism on the planet, each one made up of billions of neurons connected by TRILLIONS of synapses, sets of bio-chemical-electrical connections affected by each part of the system and all parts in the environment, those external to the body.

External effects include words and pictures.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

If there is a will there is a way......problem is there is no will.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@bigyen Thanks, but no worries. I'm not affected either way.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Sheesh. My daughter's accepted a job at a location near Thousand Oaks. But then, this is America - one never knows when or where mass slaughter will occur, just that it will.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

But I do not hear guns are used for crimes in the country while it is not so in U.S.

Many Americans seem to think life is a Hollywood movie, and these events are a perverted fantasy of some supposedly heroic gun scene they've been playing in their minds.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Again and again! America is really cursed by guns. It seems not blessed as long as guns are there. So glad here in Japan no guns.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

America is "Have gun and travel."

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

13 more victims are dead and the usual arguments are taking place here and on other media platforms around the world.

And nothing will happen. Tempers will get heated and the same old rhetoric will dominate. Nobody will be brave enough to address why America is in love with the gun.

RIP to the dead and the thousands more to follow.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

I’m all for gun control, sure. That said, this guy had a pistol - not some kitted our automatic AR. As another user mentioned, many other countries allow you to carry or own at least a handgun, yet you don’t see shooting after shooting.

That said, just another ‘culling the herd’ day in America. See you all in the comments for the next shooting in about 2 weeks ?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Access to a firearm just makes it easier, but having no access wouldn't stop it.

Agree, it wouldn't but you gotta start somewhere. There is no overnight solution i.e gun violence is too deeply entrenched in American culture but restricting access to firearms & less glorifying of weapons & gun violence (including in the military, media, politics, movies etc) would help.

As an aside, I also think that the govt, twitter, facebook etc should do more to stop ppl, pseudo journos & media who spread false rumours; last night, Ian David Long was often described as a 'middle eastern gunman'.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Simple : other countries have far less guns and much more restrictions, so they don't have mass shootings every other day.

While the US thinks prayer is a valid solution.

At this point, they should know what's to be done. If they don't, it's their own fault.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Another day another shooting!

this is becoming too common.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Realistically, there is no solution that will guarantee no shootings in the US, or any other country for that matter. SO, how to decrease gun crime? There are two approaches- one concerning the weapons and one concerning the humans.

Banning semiautomatic weapons is a non starter. The vast majority of firearms in the US are semiautomatic, so that would be a de facto gun ban. Best of luck getting any change to the Second Amendment passed. Other than that, any small changes in law (assault weapon bans, large capacity magazine bans) are basically meaningless. They only allow politicians to crow about 'doing something' while not actually doing anything.

I would say that national licensing and safety requirements would be a good start. Having a patchwork of laws from state to state is ridiculous. Second, vastly higher funding for mental health care for people in need. Perhaps even involuntary commitment to mental hospitals in extreme cases, where recommended by physicians.

Still, overall gun crime and violent crime in general is way down from twenty or thirty years ago- at historic lows really. So there is no need to panic about these tragic events that make headlines, but do not reflect the reality of the situation.

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

@goldork last night, Ian David Long was often described as a 'middle eastern gunman'.

And on this site posters claimed it was ANTIFA. Bigot's gonna bigot. And social media and the Internet gives them forums to increase the hatred and bigotry.

Governments as well as privately funded organizations that pay trolls to spread lies intended to flame and increase bigotry and hatred need to be censored.

Those overseeing social media sites need to do what they're legally able to do to stop trolls and flamers, the scum of the Earth.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Simple : other countries have far less guns and much more restrictions, so they don't have mass shootings every other day.

The USA doesn't have mass shootings every other day. This is easily proven as false.

goldorak : but you gotta start somewhere.

I can agree on that.

We need to follow the data, not the emotions. For example, rifles, including assault variants, are not the primary firearm used in homicides.

According to the FBI stats, knives kill far more people than rifles. In 2014, knives were used 6.3x more often than rifles.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-4.xls is newer data. Handguns were used in 64% of the homicides in 2016. Rifles in 3.4% in the same year.

Regardless of the firearm, kids shouldn't have access to any handgun without direct parent approval. Gun safes and trigger locks, need to be required by law for all handguns. Gun safes are required by law for certain firearms already, BTW.

Let's follow the data as we seek solutions. Hysterics won't get to a solution. Follow the data.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Simple : other countries have far less guns and much more restrictions, so they don't have mass shootings every other day.

The USA doesn't have mass shootings every other day. This is easily proven as false.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

November 9th is the 313th day of the year, there's been 307 mass shootings in 2018.

That's more than every other day actually.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Sadly this won’t change anything!

lots of veterans get out and don’t even realize that they have issues until it’s too late, then the “experts” come in with all kinds of information about how it could have been prevented.

neverending cycle.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Just another day in the good ol' USA. Since they refuse to rethink their utter stupidity on guns, this is, Always, just daily news. How sad. I truly feel sorry for the victims and family members who Believe in stricter gun laws or even in not having guns at all because of this kind of problem. I have almost no sympathy for those who stand by the right to bear arms. Yet another gun-nutter has taken the lives of people with a weapon used SOLELY for Killing. Americans will never learn as long as their is money to be made by the cowards in the NRA and gun companies.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

'There's nothing to be done!' says the one country where this happens on the reg. The American version of gun control is, 'Use both hands.'

4 ( +4 / -0 )

SchopenhauerToday 07:15 am JST

There are many countries in the world where people can have guns but shooting incidents happen most often in the U.S.A. Why is that?

that's maybe because there are 393 million civilian-owned firearms in the United States, that's nearly 50% of the world firearms owned by civilian. And in lot of other countries, you can't casually buy an automatic or semi-automatic riffle... people use just own a shotgun for hunting.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Mass shootings are as American as apple pie and July 4th. Look for them to continue.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Living in Japan has its downsides, but at least I don't have to worry about my kids being shot at school, my wife being shot at yoga, and me being shot at the pub.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Love of the gun + love of profits that guns bring. The bad people in this story are the gun industry, gun lobbyists and the utterly vile National Rife Association.

Note, in this horror story there was a “good guy with a gun.” He got killed.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Sorry, that emotional argument it’s not going to work,

Please explain how my argument was emotional. You can't because it wasn't. Let's try having a bit of accuracy. I know your hyper-partisan tunnel vision prevents this, but please try.

> there is no way on this planet that guns are going to be taking away her that the second amendment will be repealed or even ratified, 

The Second Amendment was ratified a long time ago.

Nobody is claiming the Second Amendment will be repealed. Please stop arguing with the liberal you've created in your head.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

More repugnance from republicans:

A day after Judge Glenn Devlin of Houston lost his reelection bid, he released nearly all of the juvenile defendants who appeared before him, as long as they answered no when he asked if they planned to kill anyone.

Devlin, one of the 59 Republican jurists in Harris County who was replaced by Democrats, allegedly said: “This is obviously what the voters wanted,” when he released juveniles who have been charged with a wide range of crimes, according to ABC 10.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/judge-loses-re-election-sets-defendants-free-long-promised-not-kill-anyone-223716167.html

Conservatibes simply can't separate their personal opinions from their professional life,

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Big question: was the shooter on meds for PTSD? We will not learn the answer, for the toxicology results will not be revealed -- Big Pharma will see to that.

I have a proposal. 1) Ban all discharged former US military personnel from purchasing and/or owning a gun -- too many PTSD-related mass shootings; and 2) Repeal the 2nd Amendment -- there aren't any more militias in the US, they ended 200-plus years ago.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

TheFu:

The USA doesn't have mass shootings every other day. This is easily proven as false

You sure about that? Cause i think i've seen more reports about mass shootings on this website in the past few weeks than in the past 2 years

0 ( +1 / -1 )

We have to stop spending on taking care of illegals and help our mentally ill.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

It's often said, "Guns don't kill people, people do." Can't deny that. But what kind of people go into a bar and shoot up a dozen people? Not being terribly technical about it, that person would have to be crazy, right? And not in a good way. The guy would have to be psychotic.

The people termed “mental health experts” in the above article, the psychiatrists, are those people in the society who are supposed to know about people's minds and who are supposed to be able to recognise and treat mental illness. They even call themselves doctors.

Yet they are totally incapable of recognising or treating mental illness. The article states, "The mental health experts out there cleared him that day." He was given a clean bill of health by these "mental health experts."

Supposing you were a racing driver and you had your car cleared for the race by "experts," then you took the car out and it fell to bits on the second lap. You would have something to say to the "experts," wouldn't you?

This is not an isolated case. The biggest percentage of this kind of mass shooting involves people who have been "treated" for mental illness or who are currently being and/or people who are on so called anti-psychotic drugs.

These mental "doctors" are not experts, they are fake.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Yeah. Why haven’t they memorized the manual on human mentality.

And where is this magical manual? Who wrote it?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

This is guns country destiny. More tragedies would come in the future whatever, because of guns country.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

prossnip42 - You sure about that? Cause i think i've seen more reports about mass shootings on this website in the past few weeks than in the past 2 years

Positive. The number of stories doesn't map 1-for-1 to the number of events.

Follow the real data. This is a little harder because the term "mass shooting" means something different in different reports and the FBI doesn't track the category.

The FBI uses "Active Shooter" incidents.

In 2017, there were 30 active shooting incidents throughout the nation. A total of 138 were killed in the shootings, the first time a death toll has risen above 90 for a single year.

....

An active shooter is defined by the FBI as someone actively killing or attempting to kill people in a populated area. This data is not just mass shootings, which is the killing of three or more people. The data also doesn't include drug and gang-related shootings that appeared targeted.

That's from USA Today.

Rand https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/supplementary/mass-shootings.html says there were 371 "mass shootings" which include the shooter. So that averages out to 1.016 events per day. That isn't every other day. Being off by a factor of 2x isn't good.

If we take out gang related events (don't know why they bother), the numbers drop drastically to 65 mass shootings. The math ... that's 1 event every 5.61 days.

But the point is we should use real data when it is easily available.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Login to leave a comment

Facebook users

Use your Facebook account to login or register with JapanToday. By doing so, you will also receive an email inviting you to receive our news alerts.

Facebook Connect

Login with your JapanToday account

User registration

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites