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California gunman 'not a danger' pre-rampage, police say

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Obviously not?

Kudos to the father of Chris Martinez. His raw pain was so clear. Now who will the NRA blame this time? Mental health workers and the police I guess.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

As a UCSB Alum and former resident of Isla Vista, it really saddens and angers me that this has happened. My love goes out to all those involved.

Maybe now we can start to take a seriously look at gun control and mental illness.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

I spent a good portion of my life in that area, going to Isla Vista at least once a week for shopping, movies, events and meetings of various kinds, hanging out at Borsordi's Coffee Shop, and actually lived in Isla Vista for the summer of '71. So like HokkaidoKuma, this incident makes me very sad and angry. As did the David Attias incident 12 years ago and any other similar incidents regardless of where they happen in the world. It's especially frustrating that even with all the money and other resources available to the family of the murderer and the warning signs he posted in the internet, that still enough was not done to prevent this happening.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

"They talk about gun rights. What about Chris’s right to live? When will this insanity stop?"

Good question. The NRA is so morally bankrupt on the issue of gun rights and gun control that I can scarcely believe theirs is a voice of influence in the national debate any longer. That a small membership core of largely uneducated, paranoid, conspiracy-theory addled loons enlisting the lobbying prowess of a tiny core of educated, wealthy, paranoid, conspiracy-theory addled lawyers and spokespersons can hold American families hostage to their delusions is unconscionable.

Add this to the long list of things fundamentally wrong with the American political system, like endless filibusters, gerrymandering, and unlimited political campaign contributions.

Gun control advocates are often characterized as pacifists and weaklings, unwilling to make the hard choices when push comes to shove. But you know why the meek will inherit the earth? Because they're going to finally get fed up with all the crap the "strong" have made them to swallow over the years, pay them a personal visit, and kick their proverbial teeth in when that becomes the only recourse left for bringing some sense of sanity to this terrifying society we've allowed to manifest around us.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

...and the gun control zealots continue to spin this into an "gun control" issue; as if any piece of regulatory paper would have prevented this psycho to go on a rampage.

"Gun control" of course, does not happen in a vaccuum. It works pretty efficiently in a highly organized island country like Japan. But in the US? For the record, Mexico has strict gun control. So how much safer is the Mexico?

It is really sad that some people are so blinkered that they see every event just as a chance to rattle off some politicial party talking points.

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

WilliB: "...and the gun control zealots continue to spin this into an "gun control" issue; as if any piece of regulatory paper would have prevented this psycho to go on a rampage."

EXACTLY the point -- no current regulatory paper exists that could have prevented this, and they SHOULD be made into existence, but nutters and the NRA won't allow it.

"It is really sad that some people are so blinkered that they see every event just as a chance to rattle off some politicial party talking points."

Says the guy making political points and defending the system that allowed this man three legal firearms and 40 clips of ammunition and insists he could have done the same thing with pop-tarts if he had the intention.

"But in the US? For the record, Mexico has strict gun control. So how much safer is the Mexico?"

So you're saying the US isn't much better than Mexico. Congrats.

I think Brown, when interviewed by CNN, said it best: “But there certainly is a problem.” It's a shame WilliB doesn't think there is a problem aside from people justifiably pointing out how insane the US system is when it comes to guns.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

@WilliB I think you're being incredibly insensitive toward the issue at hand. Yeah, I agree to an extent that even if the US had stronger "gun control" laws that this still wouldn't have prevented this individual to go on a random killing spree. Yes, there were other issues present that deserve just as much attention. However, at the same time, for crying out loud, from media reports he was under the guidance of multiple health specialists and he was still legally allowed to purchase multiple guns. What kind of BS is that.

Yeah, it wouldn't have prevented the stabbings, but it certainly would have prevented the 3 other deaths and the wounding of others.

Likewise, you can't just pick random countries to support your argument. Mexico is not the first world country that Japan is, nor is it any other leading nation like Canada or Western Europe. But for the US, the so called "leader of the world", to be lagging behind other industrialized nations in this area is a joke.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Next WilliB will be defending guns again in today's Myrtle Beach shootings, in yet another daily case of guns being the tool that took the lives of Americans. But hey, we should ban tools like cars and knives, but not guns, right Willi? I mean, these shootings that led to deaths could have been done with pillows if the murderers had intent, right?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Gun ownership registries should be freely available to first-responders as well as mental health professionals. When a cop pulls up your license plate info or when an individual is referred to mental counseling, this information should be immediately and freely available. After all, if you're a law-abiding citizen, why would you care what the authorities are aware of?

Such practice would be a good place to start, but it would surely come under fire. This is particularly ironic given the "right to carry" zealots who insist on brandishing their weapons in restaurants - they insist that the average diner be awed at their open demonstration of 2nd Amendment "manhood," but they are terrified of an open database.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

WillB,

Wow. The NRA's case gets stretched marginally thinner with every murder, doesn't it? Are you really going to try to play the "America is just too biiiiiiiig for gun control to work" card?

How about Western Europe? How about northern Europe? How about the Mediterranean? How about the Balkans? All large areas, all with multiple countries living side-by-side, all with fairly pourous borders. Yet, gun-related deaths in those regions are a fraction of what they are in the U.S.

How about comparing the U.S. to nation that possesses roughly the same political, social, and economic infrastructure. Or are you saying that the Mexico and the U.S. are virtually the same?

You know what Mexico has in common with the above countries? Very little; it's economy is a wreck, it's political system tenuous at best with curruption running rampant through most branches of the government. And society? Well, let's just say the average Mexican would sleep a lot better if not for the drug war being waged right outside their front doors daily for a slice of the humongous drug money pie that comes courtesy of . . . wait for it! . . . The loyal consumers of the United States.

The U.S has the more than the ability to initiate effective gun control. It just lacks enough political will. But that's changing. Slowly and every so surely, it's changing.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

UCSB is one of the safest areas in the USA! Graduated from UC Santa Barabara and actually not too surprised by this, why?? UCSB in one of the most racist, rich kid schools in all of the public universities in California. This kid was rich but even with his $$$ and BMW no sex?? No girlfriend by age 22?? This is quite common at UCSB, why?? All the rich, white students make sure the pay for the right fraternity, and the rich white girls to the right sorority, making for a very strange place. Many girls but off limits if you are not in the right fraternity so other UC schools have done away with fraternities etc...another reason prostitution should be legalized in not only all of California but all of the USA and Japan!! This 22 year old was rich and white but the competition for lady friends in Santa Barbara is terrible!! Playboy and Penthouse magazine would come on campus twice a year to select coeds of the month etc..very rich, beautiful and stuck up young women from Beverly Hills, etc... So RIP?? No surprise here when even rich white young men feel left out???

0 ( +3 / -3 )

HokkaidoKuma:

" However, at the same time, for crying out loud, from media reports he was under the guidance of multiple health specialists and he was still legally allowed to purchase multiple guns. What kind of BS is that. "

That is of course wrong. But that would be an issue of enforcing existing laws, not to write new ones. Or are mental patients allowed to buy guns now?

Incidentally, in his manifesto he says that ever since getting an X-box he spent almost all his waking hours playing "Halo", apparently a shoot-up game. What kind of "guidance by multiple health specialists" is that, I wonder?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Gun ownership registries should be freely available to first-responders as well as mental health professionals.

Even as a gun control advocate I cannot agree.

In my world, an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure. What needs to happen is that people need to be trained and vetted before they can just go out and buy a deadly machine, such as they are trained to drive cars. They need to be placed under restrictions of proper storage of their firearms and proper sales and resales.

But we don't need cops getting all paranoid because the guy they just pulled over for a broken tail light is a known gun owner.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Or are mental patients allowed to buy guns now?

Gee, WilliB, why don't you answer that for us? Do you mean the kind of psychological treatment for fighting with your wife or not fitting in, or the kind that sends you into a murderous rampage?

What I hate most about guns is not the carnage (as terrible as it is) but how their prevalence perverts society. What is required now, apparently, is a court-ordered definition of" insanity" to stop people from buying guns.

This will work well with people who really need help!

2 ( +4 / -2 )

A 22-year-old man who murdered six people in a violent rampage in California had previously convinced police he was not a threat to others.

He was able to "convince" 99 out of 100 women something was not right with him.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

This unfortunate man was mentally unstable all his life. How could he legally buy guns at a federally approved gun store and legally register them? This could never have happened in Japan, nor in most Western democracies.

The villain in this story is the NRA and the pro gun creeps. They are as guilty as if they pulled the trigger in Santa Barbara.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Laguna:

" What I hate most about guns is not the carnage (as terrible as it is) but how their prevalence perverts society. "

You mean like.... both Switzerland and Israel, where every reservist is required to have his gun in the house?

Look, I am not dogmatic about this. I am simply pointing out that the simplistic talking points are, well, simplistic.

And as even the fanatics have to admit, these murders would have happened with or without guns. It is really cheap to turn everything into a US political party rally the moment some key word comes up.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Elbuda

The murderer was living in Isla Vista but was never a UCSB student. He was a student at Santa Barbara City College although apparently he attended very few classes.

Also he was only half white, his mother is Malaysian. The three men he stabbed at his apartment were all Asians or Asian-Americans (not sure of nationality, have seen conflicting reports).

As for it being hard for young men to get a girlfriend, I think that is a two way street. For the women who weren't tall, slender, blonde beach babes it could be very hard to find a boyfriend, at least in the 60s and early 70s.

I find it very ironic, and perhaps a case of chickens coming home to roost, that the murder's father's claim to fame is a movie about people killing each other.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

And as even the fanatics have to admit, these murders would have happened with or without guns

Well, four of them would have - that is, if the perpetrator had had the guts to go ahead with his plan knowing he had no guns to back him up. Also, how does your logic work with Columbine or Aurora or Sandy Hook? Would those murders have happened with or guns? Would this rampage have been prevented by the lack of access to a ridiculously easy to obtain, highly lethal weapon? I don't want to be simplistic; this is a very complex situation. I assume that you are on board with my suggestion for total disclosure of weaponry ownership.

Oh, and cats and dogs (like your moniker!) -

But we don't need cops getting all paranoid because the guy they just pulled over for a broken tail light is a known gun owner.

Cops are already paranoid; they must assume that every individual is armed. American police are militarized because of the gun owners they face - and non-owners must face the same treatment. Is that fair?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

WilliB: "Or are mental patients allowed to buy guns now?"

Ummm... let's look at the fact that a mentally unstable person was allowed to buy heaps of weapons before we answer that shall we? or will you just ignore that and talk about every country under the sun that has, what minimum a 100th of the gun deaths compared the US? Oh wait, you've already done that!

You still have yet to answer how he could have murdered three of those he did without guns, and wounded 13 others from his car window. Come on, bud, tell us how he could have done it without guns. You say you're sick of people blaming guns for these, ummm... gun massacres, so go ahead and tell us how it can be stopped in the US. The mods don't seem to mind you bringing up other countries' stats as red herrings, so do tell us what the death rates are by gun? third world countries you like to compare yourself to or not. So far you've blamed this on Mexico, X-box, Switzerland, and anything but the guns that allowed this guy to do as much damage as he did.

"these murders would have happened with or without guns."

You have yet to ever, in any single post, explain how. Please tell us how he could have murdered these people with a tool that actually has functionality besides murder (ie. I use a knife in my kitchen, I don't use a gun to cut my meat). Do you use hand guns to cook? to drive? So what is the purpose of having a handgun but for nutters to "defend themselves" against people with handguns?

Pathetic.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

If you read his own comments you can see that the guns were vital to his plans. Conversely without his guns he would not have been able to do what he did.

Quote: 'He had three semi-automatic weapons in his bedroom and had written up plans for his assault. “I tactfully told them that it was all a misunderstanding, and they finally left. If they had demanded to search my room .. .. that would have ended everything,” he wrote. “For a few horrible seconds I thought it was all over."'

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Killing his first three victims by stabbing them to death with a knife shows how unhinged this chap was. The fact that he was visited by police and a shrink after having been reported for his online postings, yet getting a "pass" is what is truly disturbing. This was a criminally insane individual, a true nutter, long before he bought a gun legally. The system failed. His family also failed. Were he a substance abuser he would likely had an "intervention", but despite his murderous ravings there was no intervention. That has nothing whatsoever to do with the millions of law-abiding gun owners nor the NRA, and it is the height of ludicrosity to assign blame as such. That is the nuttiness of the gun control syncophants.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

What is required now, apparently, is a court-ordered definition of" insanity" to stop people from buying guns.

This has been defined. See Question 11f on the ATF Form 4473 used to record over the counter gun transactions and the instructions for 11f included on the form:

http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

0 ( +0 / -0 )

nandakandamanda: "If you read his own comments you can see that the guns were vital to his plans. Conversely without his guns he would not have been able to do what he did."

Don't tell that to WilliB! He might have to pretend it would have happened anyway if the criminal had shower curtains as a weapon.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

smithinjapanMAY. 26, 2014 - 10:07PM JST

So far you've blamed this on Mexico, X-box, Switzerland, and anything but the guns that allowed this guy to do as much damage as he did.

Smith, I suggest you watch the video “Elliot Rodger’s Retribution”, you might find it interesting. Then again, maybe you won’t.

Here are some snippets from the transcript.

“Tomorrow is the day of retribution. The day in which I will have my revenge against humanity, against all of you” “On the day of retribution, I am going to enter the hottest sorority house of UCSB and I will slaughter every single spoiled, stuck-up blond sl-t I see inside there.”

“All those girls that I’ve desired so much. They would have all rejected me and looked down upon me as an inferior man if I ever made a sexual advance towards them, while they throw themselves at these obnoxious brutes. I’ll take great pleasure in slaughtering all of you. You will finally see that I am in truth the superior one. The true alpha man (creepy laugh). Yes.”

“They’ve all looked down upon me every time I tried to go and join them. They’ve all treated me like a mouse. Well, now I will be a god compared to you. You will all be animals. You are animals, and I will slaughter you like animals. And I’ll be a god exacting my retribution on all those who deserve it. And you do deserve it, just for the crime of living a better life than me. All you popular kids. You’ve never accepted me, and now you’ll all pay for it”.

“ You denied me a happy life, and in turn I will deny all of you life. (laughs) It’s only fair. I hate all of you. Humanity is a disgusting, wretched, depraved species. If I had it in my power I would stop at nothing to reduce every single one of you to mountains of skulls and rivers of blood, and rightfully so. You deserve to be annihilated, and I’ll give that to you. You never showed me any mercy, and so I will show you none.”

“You forced me to suffer all my life, and now I’ll make you all suffer. I’ve waited a long time for this. I’ll give you exactly what you deserve, all of you. All you girls who rejected me and looked down upon me and, you know, treated me like scum while you gave yourselves to other men. And all of you men, for living a better life than me — all of you sexually active men, I hate you. I hate all of you, and I can’t wait to give you exactly what you deserve: utter annihilation.”

So Smith, in light of young Mr. Rodger’s ranting, as exampled above. Would you say that nothing would have happened on that eventful Friday night if he didn’t have access to a gun?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Cops are already paranoid; they must assume that every individual is armed. American police are militarized because of the gun owners they face - and non-owners must face the same treatment. Is that fair?

As you say Laguna, this is complicated. Of course its not fair to non-gun owners, particularly the ones who specifically don't own a gun because they want a safer country. I still think the end result would be extra paranoia on people who own guns. But I think we may both be able to agree that whatever change in paranoia toward people not on the list would be slight unless there is a drastic change in other areas of gun control. This is because its easy enough to get an illegal weapon and not register it as things stand now. No cop is going to relax for a persons name not being on the list.

I am a firm advocate of gun licensing, registration and proper storage. But people don't seem to understand that all that can be handled and periodically checked by private organizations who only share information with the police and government under special circumstances. Our Founding Fathers did not trust authority and neither do I. But we still need gun control because this is not 1776.

You mean like.... both Switzerland and Israel, where every reservist is required to have his gun in the house?

What a wonderful bit of cherry-picking WilliB. Unless you advocate the Swiss or Israeli way, lock, stock and barrel, then the situation can never be remotely similar. May as well advocate nearly every Thai have a car like nearly every American does, but not bother with widening the roads or testing and licensing, or insurance. it would be mayhem.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

This was a criminally insane individual, a true nutter, long before he bought a gun legally. The system failed.

Thank you, NRA, for being primarily responsible for a system where this "true nutter" could get a gun legally. The system failed because there were not adequate firewalls in place to prevent his legal purchases. Any adequate firewall would be adamantly opposed by the NRA.

The gun-nutters would rather have society spend billions on confining suspicious people to institutions rather than do anything sensible. Providing no inherent benefit to society except for killing and maiming -- unlike knives and cars -- guns should not be easy to obtain. The minimum that should be required are three notarized letters from individuals willing to vouch for the person who wants to purchase one.

You need references for a job but not for an object whose only useful purpose is to cause or threaten harm to another.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

This incident is irrefutable proof that America's gun laws have created a broken state. Anyone who would claim otherwise is only showing their inability to think logically.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

@yabits:

Thank you, NRA, for being primarily responsible for a system where this "true nutter" could get a gun legally.

If you are looking for someone to put the "blame" on how about putting it on the killer? By the way, the guy killed as many people by stabbing as with a gun. While you are going after the NRA (which is an advocate for the Constitutional right to bear arms) might you also want to go after the knife industry as well? Since there is no Constitutional right to bear knives you might have much better luck going after them instead.

Seriously the answer is not to attack the NRA but to go after the right to bear arms. There is a process in which the US Constitution can be amended. And after that success you can then turn your attention to the first amendment so that the Left's political adversaries can be silenced. Good luck.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Kuya 808: "So Smith, in light of young Mr. Rodger’s ranting, as exampled above. Would you say that nothing would have happened on that eventful Friday night if he didn’t have access to a gun?"

I'm saying that the people he shot from his car window would not have been shot if he did not have THREE WEAPONS AND 40 MAGAZINES OF AMMO. What I'm also saying, and a point you guys clearly like to forget, is that if it is so obviously well known he was a psycho, why was he allowed such easy access to guns? So, do you think such people, before the crime is committed, should be legally sold guns or not?

I won't hold my breath for your answer.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

smithjapan

" I'm saying that the people he shot from his car window would not have been shot if he did not have THREE WEAPONS AND 40 MAGAZINES OF AMMO. What I'm also saying, and a point you guys clearly like to forget, is that if it is so obviously well known he was a psycho, why was he allowed such easy access to guns? "

You can capitalize all you want, but just as many ore more people would have died if had simply used is dad`s SUV to plow them down, as he had originally planned. As for selling weapons to mental patients, I agree. There should be checks on that, and I thought there are.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

If you are looking for someone to put the "blame" on how about putting it on the killer?

The NRA, and the politicians who kowtow to them, are the ones primarily to blame for making sure that mentally deranged people can obtain and keep firearms. It could well be that most of the leadership of the NRA are not of sound mind either.

A person has to provide three references to vouch for them when applying for a job, but, thanks to the NRA, there is no such requirement when trying to obtain a firearm. That's insane.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

WilliB: "but just as many ore more people would have died if had simply used is dad`s SUV to plow them down, as he had originally planned"

Prove it. As it is we have proof that guns once again helped the guy kill people who would not have died if he had used other means. Sorry, bud. You don't like it, I know, but that's the truth. I suppose the two murderers in Columbine could have done what they did without guns, too? or the next gun massacre, or the one after that, or the hundreds of others that can only occur in the US -- an advanced nation save when it comes to guns and health.

"As for selling weapons to mental patients, I agree. There should be checks on that, and I thought there are."

Will you talk to your local politicians back home to try and get it done? The NRA would never approve and you'd be shot down.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Prove it. As it is we have proof that guns once again helped the guy kill people who would not have died if he had used other means

If i, as a person being targeted, have a choice, I would much rather contend with a guy who is "planning" to get me with his SUV than with his gun.

These half-wit gun-lovers actually think that just because someone is planning an assault with an SUV that their plan will achieve a high degree of success. The reality is that guns increase the odds of a serious attack succeeding exponentially.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

This is one of the best articles I have ever read on the subject:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this,36131/

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

0 ( +0 / -0 )

smithjap:

" Prove it. "

Prove what? That he killed half of the victims without any gun? That he originally planned a rampage with his dads SUV? There is nothing to prove, that is a simple fact.

Ironically, I am not against gun control. I am just against this cheap knee-reflex to use any incident that even remotely involves the word "gun" as a soapbox for run-of-the-mill political slogans. Bah.

And for the record, I am not American, so spare the personal stuff.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

If this guy hadn't had any guns, that would be (best case scenario) three less people dead. Result: Four people still dead. (Five, if you include him.)

If California had given their mental health care laws the same attention that they give their gun laws, this guy would have been in a secure facility and not had access to the hammer, knife, machete, car, or guns he used to kill seven people. Result: Seven people not dead. (Eight, if you include him.)

Please tell me again how this is all the NRA's fault.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

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