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Cameron reminds China of obligations over Hong Kong

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**Cameron reminds China of obligations over Hong Ko

ng**

Oh, it's not reminding that they need. China supplies the world with goods. China seems to be empowered and increasingly arrogant. If left unchecked who knows how far they'll go.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

These freedoms are best guaranteed by the transition to universal suffrage

A freedom never afforded Hong Kong by Britain.

-15 ( +5 / -20 )

MarkG Oct. 01, 2014 - 07:29AM JST If left unchecked who knows how far they'll go.

Then tell us who is going to check them? Britian? Britian is in a such a weak economic position and they have no leverage on internal matters of China. Are they prepared for sanction on Chinese goods that has no impact at all? Sun has set on Britian already, and Cameron's words are worthless.

-10 ( +6 / -16 )

The only way for Hong Kong is to revolt and be the new Taiwan. But considering how power China has become, it's impossible to try so without shedding blood. Hongkong could be the venue for the next "tianemen square massacre". It's too late! The prime minister Cameron can't do anything other than to express sentiments.It was theis greatest mistake the Britain has done for HongKong.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Beijing on Tuesday called the street protests “illegal”.

Illegal in mainland China maybe. Not illegal in Hong Kong.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

paulinusaOct. 01, 2014 - 08:00AM JST Illegal in mainland China maybe. Not illegal in Hong Kong.

The perception of Hong Kong has largely been that it is technically part of China, but that China is very hands-off and as long as you’re not hurting anyone, you can more or less do as you please. No more. There are now no doubts in the world’s mind as to who is in control, and that means the potential for Hong Kong to simply be seen as another Chinese city, complete with all the risks and uncertainty inherent to doing business in China.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

@sfjp330 oh, I would welcome HK becoming like the mainland and Chinese hypocrisy being exposed.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The West should respond immediately if Beijing does not concede, or if it uses its military to quash the protests, by shredding the entente with the PRC and implementing the same economic sanctions used against the Soviet Union. I for one will gladly sacrifice cheap commodities from Guangzhou.

The PRC must concede to democratic reforms, particularly in Hong Kong and Macau, or the West must dispense with its quiet appeasement, and treat the PRC as the new Cold War opponent it has become.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Steven C. SchulzOct. 01, 2014 - 08:27AM JST by shredding the entente with the PRC and implementing the same economic sanctions used against the Soviet Union. I for one will gladly sacrifice cheap commodities from Guangzhou.

How are you going to have economic sanctions in China when American automakers are poised to sell more than 2.5 million vehicles in China this year? Heck, all the iphones are manufactured in China. What are you going to tell Apple?

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

It seems that Hong Kong would become communist sooner or later like Red China because HK belongs to China unless it splits from China. That is HK's destiny.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

SenseNotSoCommonOct. 01, 2014 - 07:35AM JST

These freedoms are best guaranteed by the transition to universal suffrage

A freedom never afforded Hong Kong by Britain

What's that got to do with anything? The past is the past; the issue is that China is not abiding by the agreement it made when Hong Kong was returned to China.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

British Prime Minister David Cameron said Tuesday he was “deeply concerned” about escalating protests in Hong Kong and reminded China of its obligations towards the former colony.

Respectfully, he can be as "concerned" as he likes, and "remind" China about their obligations until he is blue in the face. China will do exactly what they please with HK. The only real leverage anyone has is that HK is a huge commercial and financial hub, and foreign companies would bail in a minute if things got really ugly/violent. And that would cost China greatly, both in real terms and in other ways.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Are China's actions/decisions really illegal? Or just that the protestors don't like them?

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

@MarkG Its also more about there lies and military build up, along with hacking & manipulating there dollar.

It's amazing we haven't acted "yet", and we have let them get away with everything. The amount of time China has used the word "groundless" is a joke. Every single time they have said "Groundless" months later it turns out it was a full lie on China's behalf.

China Ruling leader making statements on tv saying the west Intel is false..... 100% "groundless" show their true intentions. From day 1 the pros said we can't let them grow, we can't trust them. China said we will never start trouble or in the areas, build up............. 100% would not make attack weapons. 100% said Groundless to the idea that turned out to be another pure lie, from the ruling party and leader/s. Aircraft Carries "groundless" into the sale paperwork of the aircraft carrier was shown to the public..... Proving china's top rulers tv speech was rubbish, nothing but a con job to the western people yet again.... BUSTED AGAIN AND AGAIN AND ONGOING. Taking us as a joke and fools.

I could be here for a long time, so we will not list them all. But hacking is another one that was and is said to be.... weight of it GROUNDLESS. America AND Europe HAVE 100% TRACKED THE HACKERS BACK TO A 100% CHINESE MILITARY TEC BASE. Busted over and over... 2 many times now.

People may not know the scale china is building up, but their nuclear proof under a hole Island sub base, is for a reason. China is also building a massive unseen underground tunnel system that goes for 5,000 miles across, and has many different directions 2. Its made to move 100s of Thousands of troops, tanks weapons anyway from attack, and its nuclear proof and fires nuclear weapons from within.

The world better act. Ww2 was the last warning for us, of how close it was, what happens when a country's gets super rich and build's up....... Its the same results every time.

There is a reason why china has started their own dollar system, and why china stop spending all its money building old tech weapons 7 years ago. There is a reason why they stopped spending all their money on trying to make TEC 8 years ago. If you look back and into it, just look at when hacking started, and then saving up trillions of dollars. China is only saving and buying west bonds to F us over, and to save the money up and hack Tec. They new after 7 years of spending mass billion on trying to make that stuff, that money doesn't make TEC, you need to learn how 2 make it.... That takes a long time. This is why china is saving up mass trillions. In 15 years time china will have $10++++ trillion dollars. Once they get the tech, they have $10 - $15 trillion dollars ready to build up. Build up 5 times bigger than America, and have trillions left to fund their wars if they get cut off. America has said how they plan on stopping and targeting NK nuclear weapons in a big strike, that can hit them all.China has built space weapons, they fly supersonic missiles and Americas "Iron dome" weapons can't stop them. They are hacking the Americas power grid and will be planning a full surprise strike/attack. If they have it in place in 15 years time and wars happen.... They may just do it. That nut Hitler 100% would of risked it. In times of war and people lose..... They lose the plot and reality "panic" and make silly mistakes. You're dreaming if you think this^ will or can not happen.

Unfortunately the people that let china grow...probably thanks to this deal here "We're thinking" they could just cut china off away. They didn't think what if there market was so big, the west and 1 Billion people depended on it.... IDIOTS. If they didn't act 5 years ago and will not know, they will never act when there market is getting bigger.

The problem with the west is that.... 2 get elected in bad times, you need to make jobs. This means there is a fat chance anyone is going to act in the future or now. They only care about coming to power and that will be the worlds downfall.

Them people back in 1997 that said this would all happen, got it spot on and only a matter of 6 years after, they got that part spot on, and a bit of now spot on. Time to act.

here are things we can do. I would first do something that would not hurt us, but china. First, I would get the rest together and put a freeze on china's growth. They will still have 6% growth, but cannot grow. The world economy will act, but the output is still the same for us. China markets will crash, they can't grow past that point. If there grow is capped, it's going to destroy there markets a small bit. The world markets will get hurt, but there is still 6% growth...... is not that bad at for us. China hurt big time.

So that would be the first set of sanctions. The second step is to start cutting their 6% growth they have. Back and back a % each time. We will also at the same time, sign a deal with India, to invest $40 billion dollars over a time frame, that will show the world markets, there drop off is getting mopped up. As the outlook of china is bad, India will show a bigger % boost in the future, then china's 1% decrease from growth.

All I have to say now if that decent work, we 100% know what china's full plans are, in the future... war. Start cutting their economy back, invest billion in India.

The markets works by the "outlook" of the "worlds economy". India's out look shows US$50 billion dollars / $500 billion Indian dollars was being invested to make massive growth, it will crush and outdo any of china cut backs.

Act now or a disaster will take place. There is a reason why most courts in the world don't just lock people up the first time. They must show them and punish them. First time good behavior, second time suspended jail term, then jail time. Massive jail time if you get out of jail and commit the crime again. Not publishing China tells me America wants something 2 happen 100%. Letting them get away with it is a disaster.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

I am sure this will make them change their minds.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

China can resolve with better marketing of the so called vetting. In fact, considering the hk people don't like leung, Beijing can step in, knock him out and setup new elections. The vetting can be better stated with criteria and sell it as similar to western vetting. Or is Anyone deluded about America? Presidential candidates here in America are vetted by their own party, the bureaucracies, opponent parties and media. Many candidates have been dropped or quit elections because of scandal, crimes and etc... all Beijing has to say is they are doing a similar vetting. Before Anyone says, But Beijing won't really Do that, I know. It is all about perception. They sell it with the right words and hk people won't care. The entire western political system is full of corrupt and incompetent bureaucrats and politicians. They remain in power because they are all good at selling lies and the citizens seem to be Ok with feeling it's all Ok, regardless of the reality.

Hopefully Beijing will go with my theory. Bottom line here is the people of hk are risking lives and the only beneficiary will be a few corrupt politicians who want to put themselves in charge.

-4 ( +2 / -5 )

when hong kong's democracy gets taken away, the region's economy and stability will colapse heavily. then new empty building will be built in honk kong like all over mainland china

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Beijing on Tuesday called the street protests “illegal”.

This is nothing illegal in democracy.

We proclaim that people have an absolute human right regarding freedom of speech, freedom of the press, religious freedom, freedom of assembly, and right to petition against Government.

Cameron reminds China of obligations over Hong Kong

Please pay attention to the wording "reminds". There are hidden messages Beijing should not ignore what we mean. In solidarity, we are standing tall against PRC Communism.

Give them Liberty!

Give them Life!

Give them Dream!

Give them Future!

Let Freedom Ring in China!!

4 ( +7 / -3 )

We proclaim that people have an absolute human right regarding freedom of speech... Beijing should not ignore what we mean. In solidarity, we are standing tall against PRC Communism.

Seriously, who are "we"?

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

when hong kong's democracy gets taken away, the region's economy and stability will colapse heavily

May I ask have you been to HK and stayed for many years? HK was a small fishing village before and it has never had the democracy of universal votes for leader. Since Britain ruled the HK, the Governor was selected by Britain authority as PRC from Beijing. Britain has never given the freedom and democracy to HK as PRC.

In fact HK was prosperous, successful and low unemployment without democracy back in 1980s and 90s. HK business tycoons are heavily influenced over both local authority and mainland authority.

There is the weakness of democracy is the passing of budget approval of parliament. If HK and Singapore followed the Westminster British system, both of them will be still the fishing villages and selling fish.

HK economic growth was driven by real estate speculation. Buying and selling decision of property should be made withing two minutes as HK stock exchange. In my conclusion, democracy can not make the prosperity and high growth economy.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

In my conclusion, democracy can not make the prosperity and high growth economy.

But 8 out of the 10 leading world economies are (at least nominally) democracies. I think you'll need to clarify this further.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Cameron reminds China of obligations over Hong Kong

Expect new maritime claims in the English Channel by yours truly.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

ReformedBasher

Maybe they'll find ancient Chinese coins buried on the Isle of Man.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@A Realist,

These freedoms are best guaranteed by the transition to universal suffrage

A freedom never afforded Hong Kong by Britain

What's that got to do with anything? The past is the past; the issue is that China is not abiding by the agreement it made when Hong Kong was returned to China.

Is anyone that naïve? What was the agreed timetable for implementing universal suffrage?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

There are more Scots and east Ukrainians that want independence than there are Hong Kong protesters, so if truly democratic, those regions should be able to secede. In Hong Kong there are thousands of protesters compared to millions of people who want life to go on and continue to make a living because no matter what govt is in charge their lives won't change much. The chinese communist party will do what they think is right, as will the politicians in the pockets of corporations and the military industrial complex

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Wishing Hong Kong people all the best in the name of democracy.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

They should have never given back HK in the first place! It was only a matter of time until things escalate after it was returned to China. It's good to see however that HK people don't take the crap from mainland China and fight. If things really start to escalate this time China will not so easily get away with it like the did with Tianmen Square.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

i'm happy HK protest is peaceful because they follow the way Taiwanese protest these years. Western way is definitely not good here which normally caused civilian/ policemen killed and shops robbed and even foreign jouralists rapped, no matter what happen later, the action will gradually change china political system. Britan did give HK freedom however it never give HK democracy and vote right so Britan is bad example as well.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@CGBspender

In my humble knowledge, HK was a spoilt of war without water. When Britain could not get the water and fresh vegetables, they had to lease New Territory with 99 years contract back in 1897. New Territory is the life blood of HK Island.

Margaret Thatcher tried to leave HK when the lease matured. However Deng Xiaopping said, he will send Marines if it is not returned. Iron lady consulted Military experts for fighting with PRC. Strategist assumed that fighting PRC without drinking water will be fruitless and waste of lives and time.

At the end Iron Lady reluctantly signed hand over deal. If Britain is still ruling HK, the governor is still being elected from London as CEO from Pro Beijing voting group. Not from HK citizens. Cameron is the Pot who called Kettle Black. His words may be sweet. His heart is black as Beijing too.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

But 8 out of the 10 leading world economies are (at least nominally) democracies.

And 10 out of 10 if you consider per capita and exclude city-states. You communist supporters can argue until you are blue in the face. The world sees your bankruptcy: moral, financial, and otherwise.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

You communist supporters can argue until you are blue in the face. The world sees your bankruptcy: moral, financial, and otherwise.

Damned commie credit default swaps!

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Camerot will soon arrive in Hong Kong with Excalibur to slew the Communist dragon and bring Hong Kong back into the fold of Great Britain, Of course this time fully devolved with their own local parliament as well as having representatives in Westminster, and their own pound notes printed with "Bank of Hong Kong" on them.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

zorken But 8 out of the 10 leading world economies are (at least nominally) democracies.

Sorry buddy , but what is it - DEMOCRACY ???

at least nominal...

What is REAL democracy ?

It's a brand TM or what ?

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

@CragHicks Your scenario is more plausible than the criminals in Peking allowing anyone to determine their own destiny.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

China is Adam Smith's wetdream. No unions, terrible healthcare, low paying jobs, endless growth, etc.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Just like China is making up its own definition for democracy, depends on what is their definition of universal suffrage is.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@drakedogma ...China is Adam Smith's wetdream. No unions, terrible healthcare, low paying jobs, endless growth, etc.

Adam actually had a strong humanist side:

Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations, Book I, chapter 8: "We rarely hear, it has been said, of the combination of masters, though frequently of those of workmen. But whoever imagines, upon this account, that masters rarely combine, is as ignorant of the world as of the subject. Masters are always and everywhere in a sort of tacit, but constant and uniform combination, not to raise the wages of labor above their actual rate. When workers combine, masters ... never cease to call aloud for the assistance of the civil magistrate, and the rigorous execution of those laws which have been enacted with so much severity against the combination of servants, labourers, and journeymen."

5 ( +5 / -0 )

A freedom never afforded Hong Kong by Britain.

However, Britain created a robust Legislative Council, the members of which were voted for by the people of Hong Kong. Strong opposition to Hong Kong's policies could be voiced freely and vociferously, and was done so on a regular basis. Martin Lee, Emily Lau, even Baronness Dunn could influence the governor of Hong Kong and LegCo's final decision. Not any more because the puppet governor is now hand-picked by China.

Jimmy Lai, owner of Apple Daily, came to Hong Kong from China after being given "delicious" chocolate as a kid by a Hong Kong businessman on a business trip. That's where his dream of a new life started and he rose from nothing in the British Territory because he had the freedom to do so, regardless of how vocal his political views were. These days he and his journalists get attacked and brutally beaten by gangsters doing the bidding of the mainland Chinese government because it doesn't like what he prints.

The people of Hong Kong are seeing a real erosion of their freedoms and their right to express their opinions. They are seeing attempts made to change education policies that denounce multiple political parties on favour of one party as per the mainland. They are seeing their elected LegCo representatives increasingly sidelined due to China's interference and influence on the governor. Impartiality is being destroyed.

The people of Hong Kong know that these negative developments can only lead to one thing in the near future if not protested against.

China, for its part, has used its cheap labour, markets and foreign investments to buy virtual silence from countries that are, in other circymstances, all too willing to invade countries under the banner of supporting democracy.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

" Cameron reminds China of obligations "

...as if the Peking polibureau gives a flying f about what Cameron says.

In the event, this was utterly predictable. I expected something like this immediately when they handed HK to China back then. It took 15 years, but it was inevitable.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

China is Adam Smith's wetdream.

I think you mean Ann Rand.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

What's that got to do with anything? The past is the past; the issue is that China is not abiding by the agreement it made when Hong Kong was returned to China.

Which parts of the Sino-British joint declaration has China specifically violated?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

“one country, two systems” principle, which was meant to preserve Hong Kong’s capitalist system and way of life for a period up to 2047.

Margaret Thatcher has sent the Navy crew for Falkland war. Cameron has sent the Navy ship again for intimidating for Scotland referendum. It is time for him to go and visit HK for reality check. HK citizens are preserving the capitalist system. They are free to criticize, protest and show the mid finger to authority. In fact it is freer, more open and more motivated politically under PRC more than under undemocratic rule of Great Britain.

HK and Singapore were former colonies of Britain. At the moment, their GDP, foreign reserve and per capita income are many times higher than former master. Cameron should mind the business of solving the 6.5% unemployment rate and sky rocketing debt of £1,377 billion, or 88.1% of total GDP.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Or is Anyone deluded about America? Presidential candidates here in America are vetted by their own party, the bureaucracies, opponent parties and media.

Absolutely correct! Al Gore has won more primary vote than George Bush. However he did not become the President of USA due to electoral college rule for allocation. Candidates of President is chosen by political party elders not from private citizens.

In my humble opinion, California and New York are densely populated. However winning higher population can not translate as free ticket for white house.

If US can have electoral college and choosing candidate from Political party nomination instead of public, there is nothing wrong for Beijing is following the US style electoral collage for screening of candidate for CEO.

Britain Westminster system is undemocratic as Beijing election because Prime minister is not elected by UK citizens directly. In fact Party elders have power to pick up or dump their leader. The party which won more votes can choose their leader regardless of electorate opinion. That leader will become Prime Minister. If Beijing voting system for HK CEO is unfair and unjust, Neither UK nor US voting system. Pot and Kettle are all men in the black suits and ties. Beijing is corrupted and authocratic. So do Washing DC and London.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

"Beijing on Tuesday called the street protests “illegal”.

Illegal in mainland China maybe. Not illegal in Hong Kong."

Not since 1997 when Britain handed over control of Hong Kong to China..

0 ( +0 / -0 )

At the moment, their GDP, foreign reserve and per capita income are many times higher than former master.

Could you show your working on that GDP one? The UK GDP is about 2.5 trillion dollars and Hong Kong is about 274 billion. Unless you mean GDP (PPP) where Hong Kong is higher, but by my calculation about 0.7 times higher.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Margaret Thatcher has sent the Navy crew for Falkland war. Cameron has sent the Navy ship again for intimidating for Scotland referendum.

Oh please... don't make me laugh. I live in Scotland and not once did the UK government threaten us. You have a very vivid imagination, sunshine.

It is time for him to go and visit HK for reality check. HK citizens are preserving the capitalist system. They are free to criticize, protest and show the mid finger to authority. In fact it is freer, more open and more motivated politically under PRC more than under undemocratic rule of Great Britain.

This has nothing do with British rule, heynong... this has to do with China refusing to allow free and fair elections by only allowing specially selected candidates from the Party. That is not a free and fair election, that is communism being sneaky.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@Olegek Democracy is rule by the people, not 1 political party. Civilized countries have had it for 2,500 years. You should try it some time.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

scipantheist Olegek Democracy is rule by the people, not 1 political party

Sorry - people can't rule

Always it is little group that rules

and people that obey...

Democracy my friend - brilliant invention of group of cunning and power hungry politicians

My dear compatriots : I'm glad to represent you new political system : democracy :

It's not dictatorship but power of the people and for the people....

come closer!

just today and only for you !

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Since the Chinese government has never honored any agreements it ever made, not likely Cameron's or anyone else's words will have any effect.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

OlegekOct. 02, 2014 - 02:29AM JST

scipantheist Olegek Democracy is rule by the people, not 1 political party

Sorry - people can't rule

BS. BS, BS!!

Democracy is government system run by the People, for the People and it is evolved in a natural law of humanity.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Thunderbird2 Oct. 01, 2014 - 10:30PM JST

Oh please... don't make me laugh. I live in Scotland and not once did the UK government threaten us. You have a very vivid imagination, sunshine.

Oh pls---- don't make me laugh. You live in Scotland. You may read more J news and comic rather than local media. Sun has never shined enough in the chopping place of William Wallace body. Cameron who is a spin doctor wanted to put more dark clouds on the scotland. The quote you posted were not from me. You may improve your reading skills or vision. I have never posted about Scotland or British navy. The quote in your post were from Nathaw post.

You have confused me as Nathaw above my post. In fact I agree with him. Cameron has threatened Scots. They will get terrorist attack. They will be broke and hopless if they voted Yes. It is some form of intimidation and threats. As the UK resident, I hope you will be proud to read and view the local news.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/scottish-first-minister-confused-over-royal-navy-in-scotland/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11073506/David-Cameron-Salmonds-debt-threat-crippling-for-Scottish-families.html

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-09-05/cameron-warns-of-terrorist-threat-if-scotland-backs- independence.html

http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/09/07/cameron-yes-vote-will-make-scottish-more-vulnerable-to-islamic-terror/

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/scottish-first-minister-confused-over-royal-navy-in-scotland/

A story about how Salmond made what appear to be deliberatly deceptive comments about the Royal Navy - not sure what relivance it has.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11073506/David-Cameron-Salmonds-debt-threat-crippling-for-Scottish-families.html

A story where Cameron (and others) state that Salmond's threat to not take on any debt will be a reckless decision and not absolve the country of its debt responsibility. Does not say "They will be broke and hopless if they voted Yes", but that Salmond's threats if carried out will be bad for the ecomony.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-09-05/cameron-warns-of-terrorist-threat-if-scotland-backs- independence.html

States that Scotland will be more vulnerable to a terrorist attack - does not say "They will get terrorist attack".

None of these stories puts anything like a credible case for the "intimidation and threats" you suggest. Unless you see any kind of political statement against Salmond as a threat?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

globalwatcher BS. BS, BS!! Democracy is government system run by the People, for the People and it is evolved in a natural law of humanity

Sorry - where we can see such a political Paradise ?

In books of political science ?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@heynong So basically your argument is: Cameron said the future may have economic trouble and this is therefore the same as the CCP crushing people beneath tanks. May I direct you to look up the meaning of "false equivalency"?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

OlegekOct. 02, 2014 - 01:39PM JST

globalwatcher BS. BS, BS!! Democracy is government system run by the People, for the People and it is evolved in a natural law of humanity

Sorry - where we can see such a political Paradise ?

In books of political science ?

You are not a book reader, I can tell. There are many books available on Democracy. One of the classic is a book titled "LIBERTY" written by Stuart Mills. Please let me know what you can extract from this book.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

globalwatcher There are many books available on Democracy

There are some countries available on Democracy ?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

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