Canada withdraws proposed measures banning certain rifles, shotguns

still higher than other wealthy countries and has been rising,

There's a lot more crime in Canada now compared to when I was a kid. My parents started locking their front door at night for the first time in the late 90s. Sad that we had to give up something were used to be proud of because of a few really bad people and the authorities' increasingly lenient treatment of them.

If the bad guys have weapons and are attacking citizens don't citizens have a right to weapons to "level the playing field"

his government amended the package to ban certain rifles and shotguns that hold more than five rounds, among other changes.

If a hunter needs more than five rounds to bring down one animal, perhaps he or she should consider a different hobby. Or use a bigger caliber.

Seems like Canada is finally waking up. Everyone has the right to protect themselves and not be sitting ducks to growing criminal population. A win for the law-abiding folks.

If the bad guys have weapons and are attacking citizens don't citizens have a right to weapons to "level the playing field"

In the rest of the world we recognize that keeping weapons out of the hands of bad guys in the first place is more effective than a system where everyone is supposed to be armed all the time to protect them from bad guys who, thanks to the lack of gun control, are armed to the teeth.

As animal farming continues to diminish in favour of more profitable plant based ones this isn't a big deal

Everyone has the right to protect themselves

Not with lethal force, no

You realize this is Canada ?

Canada's gun homicide rate is a fraction of the United States' rate, 2020 data showed, but is still higher than other wealthy countries and has been rising, with handguns the main weapon used in the majority of firearm-related violent crimes between 2009 and 2020.

Well then, just ban all hand guns, automatic and semi automatic guns as well as shot guns. actual hunting rifles are perfectly fine on the farm, but all guns should be banned in the city limits

In the rest of the world we recognize that keeping weapons out of the hands of bad guys in the first place is more effective than a system where everyone is supposed to be armed all the time to protect them from bad guys who, thanks to the lack of gun control, are armed to the teeth.

Exactly! Well said!

Everyone has the right to protect themselves

Not with lethal force, no

You realize this is Canada ?

Hear! Hear!

Hunters = weak wimps who cannot face their prey man to man.

Hiding behind a gun to feel manly is so weak.

Well then, just ban all hand guns, automatic and semi automatic guns as well as shot guns. 

Do you mean all shotguns or only semi-automatic ones? Lots of different game can be hunted with shotguns, especially game birds.

Right to bear arms.

Do you mean all shotguns or only semi-automatic ones? Lots of different game can be hunted with shotguns, especially game birds.

You don't hunt game birds with shot guns. Those are rifles. My father was a hunter who hunted game birds.

I used to hunt with him.

Shotguns are assault weapons. Ban all those.

Hunting rifles- not a problem

I have hunted game birds with shotguns which are the usual weapons used. But you have to get the lead shot out of the bird before eating it. Shotguns, at least in Europe are the most common weapon owned by farmers.

Canadians do not have the right to bear arms.

^Although you might be thinking of slug guns. Still, I'd recommend shot for bird hunting.

But you have to get the lead shot out of the bird before eating it

I worked in kitchens throughout the UK and was constantly picking shot out of the birds while prepping them. You have to be super careful as few things put a diner off their meal quicker than cracking a tooth on a ball of lead.

It is very common in the British countryside to go shooting for game with shotguns. I have no problem with that provided the birds are eaten.

"The Supreme Court of Canada has noted on several occasions that, unlike in the United States, there is no “right to bear arms” in Canada. Relevant court cases include R. v. Hasselwander (1993); R"

You don't hunt game birds with shot guns. Those are rifles.

I think you are mistaken. Shotguns are a popular choice of firearm for bird shooters.

Best Shotguns for Bird Hunting of 2023 | Outdoor Life

Shotguns are cheaper than rifles.

Canada has withdrawn proposed amendments to gun legislation that would have banned certain types of rifles and shotguns, the government said on Friday, after opponents alleged the prohibitions unfairly targeted farmers and hunters.

Farmers and Hunters dont use military-type semi-auto rifles as they are 5.56mm caliber, not useful for hunting. And hunters have no need for high capacity magazines. Nor do thet need 9 shot 12g shotguns, and most certainly do not need handguns.

So what exactly was targeting "Farmers and Hunters"???

So what exactly was targeting "Farmers and Hunters"???

I found this article quite informative:

"The amendment adds long guns to the banned list in four different ways. First, it has a clause that would effectively ban any rifle or shotgun that could potentially accept a magazine with more than five rounds, whether or not it actually has such a magazine. Critics say that includes many rifles designed for hunters, not soldiers."

...

"Lastly, the amendment prohibits, by name, a large number of semi-automatic firearms that do not have detachable magazines and don't meet the definition of an "assault-style firearm," or infringe the other two rules, but which the government wants to ban anyway. They include a number of long guns in wide use by Canadian hunters.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6673730

(The) government's intent is to focus on AR-15s and other assault-style weapons - not guns commonly used for hunting,"

That is an excellent decision.

Very reasonable.

There's alot of bears in Canada !

I think you are mistaken. Shotguns are a popular choice of firearm for bird shooters.

Best Shotguns for Bird Hunting of 2023 | Outdoor Life

rifles are used to hunt game. Shotguns are usually single barreled and pack much larger ammunition. Some shotguns are indeed used for hunting but they are mainly used in Africa to hunt large game such as Elephants and Rhino.

Best Shotguns for Bird Hunting of 2023 | Outdoor Life

I checked your website out and all the guns listed there are rifles, not shotguns. I think we are just differing on the terminology of what a shotgun means. Or it could be that the legal classification of what constitutes a shotgun has changed since the 1990s. I've only been hunting a few times since then, and ever since my father who was also my hunting partner passed away, I've not hunted at all.

Shotguns are usually single barreled and pack much larger ammunition

I checked your website out and all the guns listed there are rifles, not shotguns. I think we are just differing on the terminology of what a shotgun means.

I don't think you did. The first three entries on the list; best overall, best over/under and best side by side are all double-barrelled shotguns. Rifles fire bullets. Shotguns fire shot. (or slugs, which is where I think you are confused)

Anyway, here's another source.

The key difference between these two firearms is that a rifle shoots bullets towards a single target and a shogun shoots small balls in a wide space.

Shotgun vs Rifle: What’s the Difference? (armorholdings.com)

(The wide space part is the reason why they are suitable for shooting fast-moving, flying objects. Like birds.)

I don't think you did.

I did.

The first three entries on the list; best overall, best over/under and best side by side are all double-barrelled shotguns. Rifles fire bullets.

The rifles I used NEVER fired bullets. They fired shots. Usually rock salt.

Shotguns fire shot. (or slugs, which is where I think you are confused)

I'm not confused at all. Like I said, I used to hunt AND had to take courses to be allowed to hunt with my father. I have a hunting license (don't know if its still valid)

What I said was criteria and classifications MAY change over time.

I'm curious to what experience you have with guns and hunting.

Aly,

Let's start from the beginning.

A shotgun (also known as a scattergun,[1] or historically as a fowling piece) is a long-barreled firearm designed to shoot a straight-walled cartridge known as a shotshell, which usually discharges numerous small pellet-like spherical sub-projectiles called shot, or sometimes a single solid projectile called a slug. Shotguns are most commonly smoothbore firearms, meaning that their gun barrels have no rifling on the inner wall, but rifled barrels for shooting slugs (slug barrels) are also available...

In a hunting context, this makes shotguns useful primarily for hunting fast-flying birds and other agile small/medium-sized game without risking overpenetration and stray shots to distant bystander and objects.

Shotgun - Wikipedia

And by the way, rifles shoot bullets through a rifled (grooved) barrel, hence the name. If you are going to use rock salt, and you wouldn't for hunting as it's preferred as a 'less lethal' round in home defense, you'd use a shotgun.

Less Lethal Loadout: Rock Salt Shotgun Shells (ammoman.com)

I'm curious to what experience you have with guns and hunting.

I grew up on a farm. I've hunted ducks with a pump action, 12-gauge shotgun, deer and pigs with my grandfather's .303 Lee-Enfield. I have used AR derivatives for pest control on the farm (my brother has a huge Heckler and Kock) but I find lever-actions more pleasurable to shoot. Semi-automatic fire is too video gamey for me.

 I find lever-actions more pleasurable to shoot.

Sorry, bolt-actions.

And by the way, rifles shoot bullets through a rifled (grooved) barrel, hence the name. If you are going to use rock salt, and you wouldn't for hunting as it's preferred as a 'less lethal' round in home defense, you'd use a shotgun.

Less Lethal Loadout: Rock Salt Shotgun Shells (ammoman.com)

I think it would depend on what you are hunting.

I grew up on a farm. I've hunted ducks with a pump action, 12-gauge shotgun, deer and pigs with my grandfather's .303 Lee-Enfield. I have used AR derivatives for pest control on the farm (my brother has a huge Heckler and Kock) but I find lever-actions more pleasurable to shoot. Semi-automatic fire is too video gamey for me.

Interesting. My father was from Syria and we had a farm as well, though I didn't live there for extended periods of time since he worked for WHO, but our summers were spent there hunting. My father hunted ducks and quail as I did, but only he had deer hunting experience- I didn't.

Semi-automatic fire is too video gamey for me.

Agree 100%

I think it would depend on what you are hunting.

Yep, fair enough. Small animals, I'd say, as the force dissipates quickly.

Interesting. My father was from Syria and we had a farm as well, though I didn't live there for extended periods of time since he worked for WHO, but our summers were spent there hunting. My father hunted ducks and quail as I did, but only he had deer hunting experience- I didn't.

Cool. For me, the hunting came secondary to tramping and camping out in the mountains. Although it was great when we (more accurately, my dad or brother) got a big stag and we had to get it helicoptered out.

I don't think semi-automatic rifles have any place in civilian hands. For whatever purpose you "need" it for, there are just as effective alternatives.

Cool. For me, the hunting came secondary to tramping and camping out in the mountains.

For me, it came second to Martial Arts and Bodybuilding. Although I love camping very much.

Although it was great when we (more accurately, my dad or brother) got a big stag and we had to get it helicoptered out.

You are so lucky. Venison is my favorite meat hands down.

I don't think semi-automatic rifles have any place in civilian hands. For whatever purpose you "need" it for, there are just as effective alternatives.

Absolutely. To answer your first question above, any hunting firearm should be legal, but with checks and balances and proper qualifications. Any firearm that is not used for hunting should be outlawed.

To answer your first question above, any hunting firearm should be legal, but with checks and balances and proper qualifications. Any firearm that is not used for hunting should be outlawed.

One of the arguments is that lots of semi-automatic rifles, like the SKS, are used for hunting, and are good for beginners or certain types of pests which can scatter at the first shot. They just lack the things like pistol grips and detachable magazines that define an "assault weapon." In that case, I think the magazine capacity of any weapon should be limited to two. With one in the head, that makes three. If you need more than that, take more mags, or get your meat from the supermarket like everybody else.

One of the arguments is that lots of semi-automatic rifles, like the SKS, are used for hunting, and are good for beginners or certain types of pests which can scatter at the first shot

Yeah but i don't if I want a beginner holding a gun- especially a semi-A at that! If someone wants to own a gun, they should get licensed first and show that they can actually shoot. We require licenses for people to drive, and so hunters have to show that they actually know how to handle a weapon.

Canadians are right to bear arms.

Especially for hunting.

Perhaps the ostensible goal wasn't to target guns used by hunters/farmers but unquestionably it is to erode current gun-ownership rights. It was introduced the same year after the shooting in Uvaldale ... in the US, not Canada. However, if the cause is an increase in crime, which is stated at the end of the the article, why not post this directly rather than merely allude to it. It takes only a moment to hyper-link your sources. I did the footwork, and here is the first highlight:

"Firearm-related violent crime represents a small proportion of police-reported violent crime in Canada, accounting for 2.8% of all victims of violent crime reported by police in 2020."

Plus, the police reported stats of all crime from 2009~2016 show that violent crime accounts for 20%. Of that 20% slice of the pie, only 3% is firearm-related violence. Hmmm. I'm not statatician but this isn't adding up especially when the lockdowns and government overreach mandates in Canada during the coronavirus outbreak were present in 2020.

Reading the article again and then looking at the Statistics Canada website gives the strong impression of bias and agenda-driving reporting.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-002-x/2022001/article/00009-eng.htm

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-005-x/2018001/article/54962-eng.htm

Owning a gun in Canada is a privilege, not a right. The gun owners probably believe it is right to own one.

 In 1993 a Supreme Court of Canada decision concluded Canadians have no constitutional right to bear arms.

How many own guns?

13%. Way down on American gun ownership of 37%.

Yeah but i don't if I want a beginner holding a gun- especially a semi-A at that! If someone wants to own a gun, they should get licensed first and show that they can actually shoot. We require licenses for people to drive, and so hunters have to show that they actually know how to handle a weapon.

I agree with all of that. And I was wrong about semi-automatic rifles being good for beginners, not many people recommend that. Although a small .22 rimfire (the Ruger 10/22 does occasionally appear on recommended lists), properly handled, should be OK for target practice and small game. Under close supervision, and with a gun safety course under the belt, obviously.

Perhaps the ostensible goal wasn't to target guns used by hunters/farmers but unquestionably it is to erode current gun-ownership rights.

They don't have gun-ownership rights presently. They have privileges, which is as it should be.

I agree with all of that. And I was wrong about semi-automatic rifles being good for beginners, not many people recommend that. Although a small .22 rimfire (the Ruger 10/22 does occasionally appear on recommended lists), properly handled, should be OK for target practice and small game. Under close supervision, and with a gun safety course under the belt, obviously.

Agree 100%

fatrainfallingintheforest

Can I just ask where you grew up? Where was the family farm?

Hope I'm not being intrusive. If so I apologize.

Aly Rustom,

Hope I'm not being intrusive.

You're not, but I'd prefer not to say.

If so I apologize.

No need.

You're not, but I'd prefer not to say.

If so I apologize.

No need.

No problem. I totally understand.

Cheers.

Cheers.

Back at you. Thanks for the discussion. Sorry I was a bit dismissive/combative early doors.

Back at you. Thanks for the discussion.

anytime. I hope we can have more. You are always welcome to contact me via Facebook if you like. Would love to chat more.

Sorry I was a bit dismissive/combative early doors.

Its ok. Had a lot worse believe me.

fallingintherainforest

"They don't have gun-ownership rights presently. They have privileges, which is as it should be."

Actually, Canadians do have legally protected gun-ownership rights. This is explicitly, and I do mean explicitly, outlined in the Canadian Criminal Code and the Firearms Act. I am unsure what you mean by privilege here as a differential.