Captain's gender had nothing to do with sinking of New Zealand naval ship, says defense minister

Sack the lot of them

No such thing as a DEI hire in NZ as it has one of the highest levels of equality in the world.

Sorry, forgot to add: DEI is about "equity", and not "equality". These are completely different concepts.

"Equality" in hiring would produce the best qualified, "equity" is social engineering.

Sack the lot of them.

lol

No such thing as a DEI hire in NZ as it has one of the highest levels of equality in the world.

Really?? A quick internet expedition shows that the NZ Navy DOES have a DEI program, see here:

https://www.mynavyhr.navy.mil/Support-Services/Culture-Resilience/Diversity-Equity-Inclusion/

And she's experienced now to boot

If there are in fact still ships that are not in service/available it means there are no qualified personnel before to handle them. Now there's a whole crew not just captain

Me I'm just waiting for her next assignment because clearly she's the most qualified according to whatever the basis for selection is

One way to settle this is if it can be shown she's the most qualified for the job.

Anyone know of other candidates considered?

virusrexToday  05:25 pm JST

Doesn't this highest level of 'equality ' mean dei is one of most if not the most significant basis for hiring?

No, "DEI hire" is being used as a way to express discriminatory feelings about certain groups, saying that members of these groups are inferior and the only possible way for them to get a certain position was because they got it without justification just to fill a quote.

In a society where diversity is predominant there would be zero need for hiring people without justification, the positions are already diverse enough.

Er, do you know how discrimination works in society?

There are many male captains responsible for collisions, sinkings, and loss of crew in various military navies.

> bass4funkToday  05:19 pm JST

No such thing as a DEI hire in NZ as it has one of the highest levels of equality in the world

Come again??

https://x.com/nz_media_watch/status/1826405608486285315?s=46&t=YGWP_lcRZjddiWlx4QxURQ

That’s the literal meaning.

When right-wingers say 'DEI hire' as (the original commenters was) , they’re really saying she was hired solely because she was a woman (or an ethnic minority as Kamala Harris).

That's not how the Diversity, equity and inclusion policy works it;'s just the way the right portrays it.

The 'E' in DEI stands for equality.

Self edit: Equity. My bad.

Doesn't this highest level of 'equality ' mean dei is one of most if not the most significant basis for hiring?

No, "DEI hire" is being used as a way to express discriminatory feelings about certain groups, saying that members of these groups are inferior and the only possible way for them to get a certain position was because they got it without justification just to fill a quote.

In a society where diversity is predominant there would be zero need for hiring people without justification, the positions are already diverse enough.

Anyway seriously it's really difficult to picture her as the most qualified for the job.

"Originally from Britain, Gray took command of Manawanui in December 2022 as her first ship command, according to the New Zealand Defence Force. Her naval career began in 1993 with the Royal Navy, and she served as a warfare officer on aircraft carriers, minehunters and frigates.

She joined the Royal New Zealand Navy in 2012, according to an article in the December 2022 edition of the navy’s in-house magazine.

The article said Gray was trained as a teacher and her dream was to open her own restaurant. She decided to move to New Zealand after that holiday with her partner: “How do we get to live here, we asked ourselves. The most obvious thing was to apply to join the Royal New Zealand Navy.”

Per The Post NZ

No such thing as a DEI hire in NZ as it has one of the highest levels of equality in the world

Come again??

https://x.com/nz_media_watch/status/1826405608486285315?s=46&t=YGWP_lcRZjddiWlx4QxURQ

No such thing as a DEI hire in NZ as it has one of the highest levels of equality in the world.

Doesn't this highest level of 'equality ' mean dei is one of most if not the most significant basis for hiring?

HawkToday  05:07 pm JST

No such thing as a DEI hire in NZ as it has one of the highest levels of equality in the world.

Is that so? Diversity Works NZ might disagree:

"What is the Aotearoa Inclusivity Matrix?

The Aotearoa Inclusivity Matrix is an evidence-based framework that allows organisations to identify the maturity of their diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) practices across seven components.

This framework was developed for the unique dynamics experienced by workplaces across Aotearoa New Zealand."

https://diversityworksnz.org.nz/news-resources/aotearoa-inclusivity-matrix/

Same with the government's plan:

Diversity, equity, and inclusion plan 2024 and 2025 (2-year)

https://www.publicservice.govt.nz/publications/diversity-equity-and-inclusion-plan-2024-and-2025-2-year

I think he is referring to the disparaging term 'DEI hire' used by the right suggesting that she was hire only because she was a female rather than a public policy to ensure equality.

No such thing as a DEI hire in NZ as it has one of the highest levels of equality in the world.

Is that so? Diversity Works NZ might disagree:

"What is the Aotearoa Inclusivity Matrix?

The Aotearoa Inclusivity Matrix is an evidence-based framework that allows organisations to identify the maturity of their diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) practices across seven components.

This framework was developed for the unique dynamics experienced by workplaces across Aotearoa New Zealand."

https://diversityworksnz.org.nz/news-resources/aotearoa-inclusivity-matrix/

Same with the government's plan:

Diversity, equity, and inclusion plan 2024 and 2025 (2-year)

https://www.publicservice.govt.nz/publications/diversity-equity-and-inclusion-plan-2024-and-2025-2-year

It's conceivable there wasn't because there's shortage of manpower, I mean personnel, unfortunate word

Mr Kipling

Today 05:00 pm JST

Problem is that no information at all released as to possible cause of sinking.

> Only that it was not gender related.

> Which could be a hidden admission that it was gender related. A pushed promotion perhaps?

If there was someone more qualified or more senior that was bypassed it will probably come out later

Problem is that no information at all released as to possible cause of sinking.

Only that it was not gender related.

Which could be a hidden admission that it was gender related. A pushed promotion perhaps?

But she was apparently a competent commander.

In fact her order to abandon the sinking ship was being praised

Problem is that no information at all released as to possible cause of sinking.

Only that it was not gender related.

Difficult to say that it isn’t gender related because she was very likely hired based on DEI and not because she was the most qualified candidate.

Good news is they have extra ship/s the captain and crew can be immediately assigned to.

Sinking not due to her incompetence so she'll surely be assigned another one

wallaceToday  01:41 pm JST

How does the gender of the captain come into it?

"She said she was appalled to see the comments online from "armchair admirals, people who will never have to make decisions which mean life or death for their subordinates."

Gender has nothing to do with it, especially, if you read what is actually being said for the most part online.

Nothing I could find say she may have been a bad commander because she is a woman.

No what most are asking is, Did she get her post because she is a woman and should she have had that position!

If As one here claimed.

" Prior to her assignment to the Manawanui, Gray had no experience commanding ships and did not even temporarily serve as commander. "

Then the questioning regarding her getting the job based if gender not experience is legitimate.

Imagine a man who had no prior experience being given a command but he was "connected" to powerful people, everyone would say or ask was he qualified or was it the "connections" that got him his position.

Well no experience and a DEI policy, is going to get people asking the question, was she really qualified or was it DEI.

Now we know across the western world, police, fire departments have all had to lower standard in order to reach the number of women the governments are demanding.

Fewer pushups, shorter distance longer times, less weight needed to be lifted , etc...to pass.

Nearly all the police and fire now have lower physical passing grades for women than those men need to pass.

So it is the about practice of lowering standards for females that makes people wonder when something happens, and ask: "was this because the woman got in on lower standards?"

アーメドToday  01:26 pm JST

There is no doubt the military is doing DEI hires and so people do automatically assume so when they see a female captain. Was she a capable captain with experience? If not, yes she was a DEI hire.

We also shouldn't forget that sometimes you can hire a male captain like the Italian captain Francesco Schettino or Lee Joon-seok who sunk the ferry in Korea.

lol

No such thing as a DEI hire in NZ as it has one of the highest levels of equality in the world.

criticized online trolling of the female captain

The manosphere is an unsavoury, little corner of the internet catering to insecure and isolated individuals, feeding them a unsatisfying diet to make them permanently angry. They need more love in their lives, I guess.

No male captain, ever, has been the commander of a vessel which has crashed.

Even if she had no command experience, it's likely not the main factor and I don't think her played any role at all. Human error more than likely caused it and it was probably from someone way down the chain. However, the captain is ultimately responsible for the ship and the blame has to fall on her.

"A court of inquiry has been stood up to establish what caused this terrible incident. The one thing that we already know did not cause it is the gender of the ship's captain,"

said Judith Collins, who is New Zealand’s first female defense minister.

Hopefully she won't be accused of a similar thing

She added women in uniform were being abused in the street following the incident.

> "This is outrageous behavior and New Zealand is not known for this and we are better than it," she added.

Yep. Maybe, but now you are. Apparently not

The country's Navy has just five vessels in service after the sinking of the Manawanui.

"NZ Navy idles One-Third of its fleet due to manning shortage."

NZ navy has 8 commissioned ships listed since the sinking of HMNZS Manawanui.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_Royal_New_Zealand_Navy_ships

How does the gender of the captain come into it?

It doesn’t.

How does the gender of the captain come into it?

diagonalslip

but begs the question as to why then, she was given command, and by whom. if finger-pointing is to be done, 'elsewhere' might appropriate...

It is a pretty safe assumption that DEI played a role here. That there was no other person that was more qualified for the job would be a big stretch.

Of course it gender does not matter... and those who criticize and mock the Captain because of gender are in wrong....

Then again, as captain of a vessel she has the ultimate responsibility and she is the one where the blame lands because.. she is the captain.... and lacking experience in commanding a ship, but still you get to be a captain?? Did she get her commanding skills only by simulations?

Captain's gender had nothing to do with sinking of New Zealand naval ship,

That might be true, or it might be not. In either case, this is what she would say.

Of course it is impossible to judge every individual case, but that DEI hiring will degrade competency overall is a fact by definition.

There is no doubt the military is doing DEI hires and so people do automatically assume so when they see a female captain. Was she a capable captain with experience? If not, yes she was a DEI hire.

We also shouldn't forget that sometimes you can hire a male captain like the Italian captain Francesco Schettino or Lee Joon-seok who sunk the ferry in Korea.

" Prior to her assignment to the Manawanui, Gray had no experience commanding ships and did not even temporarily serve as commander. "

so experience, or lack thereof, may have had something to do with it.

but begs the question as to why then, she was given command, and by whom. if finger-pointing is to be done, 'elsewhere' might appropriate....

A court of inquiry has been stood up to establish what caused this terrible incident. The one thing that we already know did not cause it is the gender of the ship's captain,

based on the court of inquiry that hasn’t even started yet? but that is already being told what the cause will not be, regardless of what is found.