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Charlie Hebdo suspects, accomplice, 4 hostages killed

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Refusing to be cowed, the controversial magazine plans a print run of one million copies instead of its usual 60,000

I'll buy two: one for me, and another as a gift to whomever. I urge you all to do the same.

--Je Suis Charlie

11 ( +12 / -1 )

“these fanatics have nothing to do with the Muslim religion.”

BS. These fanatics have nothing to do with peace-loving Muslims, but they are following their own strict interpretation of Islam. You can't just carve out the good parts.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

@SuperLib

"You can't just carve out the good parts."

Why not? That's what Christians do. How many Christians that you know have given all they own to the poor? Because that's what Christ told them to do. How many Christians genuinely "turn the other cheek" when attacked?

Why hold Islam to some special standard of literalness?

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

Why hold Islam to some special standard of literalness?

Because that is what a large minority of Muslims do.

You don't get it: Islam is different. It hasn't entirely reformed itself.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

@DanMan

Sorry if I wasn't clear; I was including Muslims when I asked the question.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Luca

OK. And I'm sorry, but I don't see how my reply doesn't apply in that case.

The problem is Islam.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Understand that as we speak of Islam, it contains as many variations as your best interoperation of Christianity. I can assure you that as you read this... Christians A. see Christians B. as false and or deceived and speeding on a highway to hell.

Good point, valid, but you are not seeing a wave of Christian A's going around, striking and killing people and wanting to cause mayhem and destruction and usually I don't agree much on anything with Super and JT in particular, they have made some very interesting points which can't be denied or overlooked about Islam. I wish move of the moderate Muslims would denounce, hold protests and speak out more against these barbarians and radical Islamists, but they are way too silent and it doesn't help the climate.

Sadly, I hate to say this, but I do see the start of something much bigger deadlier to come....

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Sorry about the loss of these hostages but it is good these bugs got stamped out.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Sadly, like children being shot in schools, this kind of extreme terrorism will continue. It seems no borders are safe. And I reiterate when I say SAD!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

He described the attack on the Jewish supermarket as an “appalling anti-Semitic act” and said: “these fanatics have nothing to do with the Muslim religion

Lip service. It has everything to do with the religion. Why would they do it in the first place, genius?!

4 ( +5 / -1 )

'The problem is Islam.'

It has been pointed out that Islam produces the most toxic form of religious extremism at the moment. I remember Christopher Hitchens commenting that if he'd been alive and writing in the 1930s, he would have identified Catholicism as the most toxic form given its anti-Semitism and relationship and alliance with the Fascist regimes of Europe including its most toxic form in Germany.

What is really depressing is seeing European countries, many of which have had a long and bloody struggle with religious fanaticism, now having to deal with a different brand of recently imported religious fanaticism. I hoped we'd put sectarian religious violence and murder to bed.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Shalom to all the familes that were tormented by this mess.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I think the Western states should merge these no-fly and terrorist watch lists into an international one.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

bass4funks

Thank you for your kind words.

Moderate Muslims not living in the West face harassment, discrimination and death for not kow towing to the fundies. I think you may not appreciate that enough. Not everyone is as brave/foolhardy as Malala.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

"stupidity will not win" - columnist Patrick Pelloux, article

"MI5 warned that Islamist militants were planning other “mass casualty attacks against the West” - article

The only certainty is, well armed and trained murderers with the expectation that they are on suicide missions can strike dozens of targets at the time and place of their choosing. Allah's opinion of all that is uncertain.

The discussion as to whether these homicidal maniacs are of some religion is mote. There is nothing of religion here. These are only acts of stupidity which will create bloody inconvenience but never silence satire or freedom. The only sure result of these attacks is convincing the world of the madness of religion in general or Islam itself.

What really matters is the Muslim world network of information and influence. Every Imam, Cleric or Political faction that incites murder is known within and throughout these cauldrons of pointless hatred. And they are known to every government and military force serving in those communities.

In fact these networks have been studied and mapped for the past two decades, two American wars and in countless attacks meant only as the writhing venom of an apocalyptic poison present in the body of the Muslim world.

If some of the adherents of a Muslim religion have the power to destroy in these deranged acts, who among the faithful can control the insanity of these insatiable demands for blood? Will the religion of Mohammed accept these deviants as identity?

And if not, what help do they need to quell the sources of violence they already know too well? How long will they tolerate the mad interpretations of their doctrines? At some point the responsibility falls within the societies where such hatred is hatched not in the whole world bowing to Mecca. However, if that is the goal, it is as shallow and pointless as any fascism.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Two things to say after my condolences to the families of the victims ; first, it is hard to read of this without thinking about horrible cowardly terrorist act of Sarkozy and France against the peaceful lives of all Libyans and the total destruction of entire country and its peoples future. NATO terrorist actions are cause of the growing social instability world wide.

Second thing to say is that instead of inciting terrorism and fighting it back in a competitive way of who will win and who will loose we should insist on the world muslims to be the leaders in that fight. It is the responsibility of the muslim community to take care of their own. All they do is cry how good islam is but do nothing to stop terror committed by their own people. It was easy fort the NATO to commit the act of terror against Muslim countries unchecked because muslims are so divided and happy that someone from outside fights their dirty tribal wars.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

I saw a drawing of Mohammed published by the Charlie magazine and it was absolutey outrageou: the illustrators depicted him naked, showing his genitalia, ass turned to the reader and a star stuck in his ass. Freedom of speech? More lack of common sense than that.

Of course, this sort of expression doesn't justify the attacks, but if you can't deal with the wasps why poke it with a short pole? If the magazine editors really thought they were doing some good, they were totally wrong.

I am not blaming the victms, not at all. I am just watching it from a distance. The terrorists are what they are, cowards killing innocents. But some of these innocents were insistently calling this sort of reaction, given that the magazine was warned again and again.

I feel sorry for the good Muslims, they are the majority though, but they will reap the seeds this attack, unfortunately.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

Regarding Francois Hollande's statement about fanatics and the muslim religion. It's political rhetoric meant to reassure the general population as well as extend an olive branch to the muslim community. Ultimately it's a strategy that's doomed to fail because it's not the business of any non-muslim to decide who's practicing "true islam", which in itself should be an inherently nonsensical concept if you don't believe in Allah. This is a debate that should be left to the muslims themselves, our role is simply to observe them.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

When do we start to fight back? Even the most tolerant societies reach a breaking point eventually. In the US, I'm afraid people are likely one more large scale terrorist attack from fighting back in a more serious way.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

lucabrasi: Why not? That's what Christians do. How many Christians that you know have given all they own to the poor?

I think you missed my point. It's hard for me to articulate.

In my mind, saying "all Muslims are terrorists" is like saying "Islam has nothing to do with religious fanatics." Both statements go too far.

First of all, in my opinion, Islam tends to require a type of submission that isn't found to the same extent in other religions. It permeates their everyday lives and there is very little separation between church and state in the Middle East. Just look at the rights of women in places like Saudi Arabia. Is that "radical" Islam or "regular" Islam or what? You just don't see other religions dominate everyday life like Islam.

From there, the radicals use and abuse the religion to brainwash people, and the path to radicalism doesn't have the same obstacles that exist in the West. When you already have a person willing to give up so much of their lives to the religion, then tweaking the religion can probably make them do some pretty horrible things. Islam is like the canvas, and radical Islam is like the picture.

So no, I don't think all Muslims are terrorists or support terrorism. But I do think you're going to find much, much larger number of terrorists and people who support them in Islam than any other religion. And it's silly to say that the religion needs to be taken off the table when debating what we should do about it. The vast majority of people killed by terrorists are Muslim and I'm betting they'd like to see an end to it as well.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Where these radical Muslim extremist got their weapons from, any network or embassy inside France? Democracy, freedom of expression, equality are all oxymoron in Islamic doctrine. Please read the trilogy of Islam including Koran, Hadith, and Suri to understand why these Muslim terrorists behave as such across the globe. They are on the forefront to advance the caliphate for world dominion as called by Islam. The moderate Muslims are on the sideline waiting for???? They believe Allah honors their actions with reward of 72 virgins in the next life! They are using intimidation, playing victim's game, sex slaves, beheading, killing to silent critics as shown in Islamic history. Too much of OBL dead and Al Qaeda was decimated? America and the rest of the West must make it clear with Islamic world to change the course to prevent further destruction of civilization. People will wake up one day if politicians still playing the game of ignorant.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

'I saw a drawing of Mohammed published by the Charlie magazine and it was absolutey outrageou: the illustrators depicted him naked, showing his genitalia, ass turned to the reader and a star stuck in his ass. Freedom of speech? More lack of common sense than that.

Of course, this sort of expression doesn't justify the attacks, but if you can't deal with the wasps why poke it with a short pole? If the magazine editors really thought they were doing some good, they were totally wrong.'

Capitulation. Why avoid the real question which is why do many in the Muslim world react so hysterically to having their beliefs ridiculed? Do you think more thoughtful critiques are acceptable? Salman Rushdie had to go into hiding for writing a novel and a Muslim cleric in the UK received death threats for stating his belief in evolution. I think you'll find it's not just the crude which many find unacceptable.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

In the US, I'm afraid people are likely one more large scale terrorist attack from fighting back in a more serious way.

More serious than invading sovereign countries for supposedly attacking America? What would that be? Nuclear stacks against countries?

As a side note, the actions performed in panic after being the victim of a terrorist attack play directly into the hands of the terrorists. They want to provoke large scale attacks against Islamic countries, because this incites their people to want to fight against the attackers. The more they are able to antagonize the situation, the better it is for them. Look at the aftermath of 9-11. The U.S. freaked out, attacked Iraq and plunged the region into war which is still continuing with ISIS today. All from the actions of 19 people. Nineteen people managed to drop the work into a decade and a half of ongoing instability, panic, and fear. People are giving up their civil rights in response to this fear, and western governments are intruding further into the privacy of their people because of this fear. All starting with 19 people.

The terrorists are like trolls on the Internet. If you get angry and afraid in your response to them, they win. And the terrorists have been winning since September 11, 2001.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Coming from this man, I found it telling. (Posted on the BBC News Live Updates yesterday at 15:25 GMT.)

"Extremists 'insult Islam' Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of the Lebanese Hezbollah group, has made a statement via video link, saying that Islamic extremists have insulted Islam and the Prophet Muhammad more than those who have published satirical cartoons mocking the religion. He did not make a specific reference to the Charlie Hebdo attack in Paris but referred to Islamic State militants in Syria and Iraq, saying they had done more harm to Islam than anyone else in history."

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Capitulation. Why avoid the real question which is why do many in the Muslim world react so hysterically to having their beliefs ridiculed? Do you think more thoughtful critiques are acceptable? Salman Rushdie had to go into hiding for writing a novel and a Muslim cleric in the UK received death threats for stating his belief in evolution. I think you'll find it's not just the crude which many find unacceptable.

Why ridicule your neighbor that keeps asking you to stop it? Because it's called freedom of speech? What about common sense and diplomatic relationship?

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Freedom of speech is easy when it is speech you agree with. Much harder when it is not. Offensive speech needs protecting much more than common sense.

I wonder why people simply don't believe the terrorists when they say "I am doing this to revenge my prophet". This IS Islam at it's core. It is true that very few Muslims would go so far as to actually perpetrate crimes like this. However, a substantial number would SUPPORT such attacks and understand their motivation. Surveys have been done in myriad predominantly Muslim countries that show widespread approval for harsh Sharia law. Death for apostates, death for blasphemers, death for insulting the religion and/or prophet, death for adultery. These are NOT extreme positions within Islam. They are mainstream.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

'Why ridicule your neighbor that keeps asking you to stop it? Because it's called freedom of speech? What about common sense and diplomatic relationship?'

I notice you avoided my question about why many Muslims react so badly to criticism. How about the Muslim cleric who received death threats for stating a belief in the scientific fact of evolution? That clearly offended his neighbours. Would you say that he had it coming? Should all Muslims avoid stating this belief in the name of common sense and diplomacy? It's quite a long list of things we and Muslims themselves should do and not do to avoid 'offense'.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I think they react badly to criticism because they are largely insulated from it. No dissidence or dissent is tolerated in most Muslim countries, particularly in terms of religion. These beliefs are packed into whatever better land they choose to immigrate to.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

http://www.sfgate.com/technology/businessinsider/article/France-s-New-Hero-Is-The-Muslim-Police-Officer-6004285.php

France's New Hero Is The Muslim Police Officer Killed Confronting The Charlie Hebdo Gunmen

The police officer executed by gunmen in a street outside the office of Charlie Hebdo in Paris was a Muslim. His name was Ahmed Merabet.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

kcjapan:

" The discussion as to whether these homicidal maniacs are of some religion is mote. There is nothing of religion here. "

It this denial of reality, shared by the media and politicians, which leads Europe down to ever more terrorist pressure and Shariah accomodation.

The realiy is, this is ONLY about religion, and nothing else. Attacking blashphemers of Mohammed and Jews is purely in line with one particular radical religion. To try and find another reason is simply wishful thinking.

And because of this wishful thinking, radical preachers like Damiel Beghal from the London Finsbury mosque, who indoctrinated these thriee, is free to operate and create ever more Jihadis.

It is safe to assume that many more attacks like the French one will follow; the UK and Belgium being very high on the list of next targets.

Alas, the polticians will keep telling us that the Jihad has nothing to do with religion....

4 ( +4 / -0 )

@DanMan, SuperLib

Points taken.

It's a tough problem.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@Strangerland @Zvonko Keep ignoring the fact that al-Wahhab started his insanity in the 18th century. Long before NATO could have been involved. Oh and that there has been a steady stream of terrorism against Israelies going back long before 9/11.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

"There has been a steady stream of terrorism against Israelis..."

There's a reason for that.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Nandakamanda:

" "Extremists 'insult Islam' Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of the Lebanese Hezbollah group, has made a statement via video link, saying that Islamic extremists have insulted Islam and the Prophet Muhammad more than those who have published satirical cartoons mocking the religion. He did not make a specific reference to the Charlie Hebdo attack in Paris but referred to Islamic State militants in Syria and Iraq, saying they had done more harm to Islam than anyone else in history." "

Well, that is hardly surprising, considering that Hizb-Allah is Shiite, and ISIS is Sunni and persecutes Shiites just like Christians and Yazidis.

But if you want to take this quote to tell us that Shi-ism advocates free speech, please consider the fate of Salman Rushdie and his translators. Or is that forgotten already?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Vast Right-Wing Conspirator I think they react badly to criticism because they are largely insulated from it. No dissidence or dissent is tolerated in most Muslim countries, particularly in terms of religion. These beliefs are packed into whatever better land they choose to immigrate to.

So I should say a little about criticism and dissent

Originally supposed that such things are welcomed in western society , but here we have the same situation as with open markets - if you have strong economy - it's good for you

After 1991 Russian mass media have learn a lot and today they are powerful, modern,highly efficient, capable of competing

So capable of competing that they met surprisingly new problems : censorship and restrictions in Europe

For example : Baltic states ( EU members) have a lot of Russian populations and of course this population want to watch Russian channels on cable television

Surprise - it's restricted - Estonia Latvia and Lithuania constantly control the contens of Russian TV programs and sometime forbid them on their territory

It's a european freedom

In modern pro -Western Ukraine Russian TV (and most of Ukranians speak Russian) officially forbidden - it's a crime to transmit them

It's a european freedom

Russia Today met a very "warm welcome" in USA , but in UK something special - constant warnings and threats of closure

No dissidence or dissent is tolerated in most Muslim countries

Not only in Muslim

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Islam is not a peaceful religion. Quran teaching terror ideology. First you have to read Quran then you will knows. ISIS leader have PhD in Islamic studies and 100% practicing Muslims

2 ( +3 / -1 )

The problem begins far upstream of the failed imams and rogue preachers that radicalize gullible, angry young men.

The moderate Islamic narrative is being drowned out by intolerant Wahabbism, beloved of ISIS, and proselytized to the tune of billions of dollars by the Saudis. The same people have this week sentenced a blogging blasphemer to 1,000 lashes (50 per week) and ten years in jail - effectively the same fate as the Charlie Hebdo team. Yet our leaders are silent.

With friends like this, the West needs an enema, because it's full of it.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Willi, yes, of course, but rarely will you get a Muslim (although not considered Muslim by Sunnis perhaps) leader speaking out so clearly on such a subject. He must feel really secure surrounded by his Hizbollah army.

Anyway I gained huge insight into this man's thinking.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@ Zaphod 02:13PM JST in re:

kcjapan: " The discussion as to whether these homicidal maniacs are of some religion is mote. There is nothing of religion here."

"It this denial of reality, shared by the media and politicians, which leads Europe down to ever more terrorist pressure and Shariah accomodation. - The realiy is, this is ONLY about religion" - Zaphod

One point to consider: If this is about religion, where does that lead? In the decision to make religion the cause, then all religion is dangerous and evil. Any crazy person hearing voices that urge slaughter might be from any religion or internal demon. So the fallacy is the condemnation of Islam as a whole, that way lies Armageddon again achieving nothing.

So, a word of caution: If making Islam evil justifies any evil against the tenents of Mohammed, Then any religion is guilty since All religion can spur some un-testable certainty in a mad act. Condemning all of the children of Allah makes no better justification than the ones used in the slaughter at Charlie Hebdo. How many children should die because of the faith of their fathers?

These madmen at Paris achieved nothing but hatred for Islam; and it can be argued Charlie Hebdo's nobility is not without fault. There is then a difference between speech and responsible speech. And there is nothing but the detestable in the fanaticism of the deranged murderers at Paris.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

No dissidence or dissent is tolerated in most Muslim countries. Olegek: Not only in Muslim

You are right, Russia is also 148th in press freedom in the world. Lower is better, fyi.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

scipantheist You are right, Russia is also 148th in press freedom in the world. Lower is better, fyi.

Who made this " reiting" ?

Ex CIA personell ?

May be God Allmighty send such list to the sinful earth?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

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