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Chechen militant claims Moscow subway blasts

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"Doku Umarov, who leads Islamic militants in Chechnya and other regions in Russia’s North Caucasus, said in a video posted Wednesday on a pro-rebel Web site that Monday’s twin suicide attacks were revenge for the killing of civilians by Russian security forces."

You just can't justify murdering people, any way you slice it. That goes for Russian security forces as well. Sadly, idiots like this just don't understand that this kind of action will beget more of the same on his people. Ignorant fools.

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Islamic militant

Associated Press, that's called a "terrorist". You can say it, go ahead and try it.

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You just can't justify murdering people, any way you slice it.

Right on!

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smith, let's say the Chechnyans stop the terrorism. Then what? Is Russia going to give Chechnya back their independence then? Are they going to stop bombing the heck out of civilians? Is the U.N. finally going to intervene?

I am against the killing of civilians in any case too, but its the Russians with the higher body count, and fact is, the Russians should be in Chechnya in the first place! I am down enough on America for bombing civilians in Afghanistan, but the Russians are far and away more sloppy! They are so sloppy that claims of peace keeping by the Russians ring totally hollow. With peace like this, who needs war!

Nobody is going to help the Chechnyans and Russia won't get out. All the Chechyans have left is to die without a struggle or get "lucky" and live like a slave on one side or get some revenge before dying on the other.

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HeyLars, you sympathize with terrorism?

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Lars, if you think that Chechens live like slaves, you are either delusional, have no idea of the meaning of the word "slave", or just using a hyperbole to make your point. Chechnya has been a part of Russia for hundreds of years and life there is very comparable to the way life is in other parts of Russia. How do I know? I've actually been there. Sure, Russians are brutal, especially when it comes to waging war, but you dont know jack about what Chechen militia does to its own people if you think that their life would improve if Russians left and militia would take over. One of the goals of militia is to implement Sharia law in all of Chechnya (google it); now that is more like slavery. In any case, majority of Chehcens actually want to be part of Russia (How I know? I've actually asked) and see those militants as the crazy nutter terrorists that they actually are. Life in Chechnya had improved significantly after the war (well, by Russian standards anyway) so the terrorists need to keep inflicting chaos to keep themselves relevant.

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manfromamerica, I sympathize with people who want to be free of their over-lords first and foremost. Second to that, choosing between two terrorists is difficult. The only measure I find reasonable is choosing the one with the smaller civilian casualty list.

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Elephunk said: In any case, majority of Chehcens actually want to be part of Russia (How I know? I've actually asked)

And you accused me of being delusional? You think you qualify as a polling station for all of Chechnya?

Chechnya has been a part of Russia for hundreds of years

Taken by force and held by force. This is like putting a gun to your wife's head and declaring that she can't leave because she is a part of you! It simply does not fly.

Chechnyan militia may be scum devils, but they are CHECHNYAN. Russians are RUSSIAN. Leave Chechnya to the Chechnyans. I don't care if they want Shariah law. Its there damned corner of the world and they have the right to run their own show free of the Russian boot. Make no mistake, I am no fan of Chechnyans or their terrorism or their religion. I am a supporter of independence for those who want it. If Massachussetts declares independence, I will support it.

life there is very comparable to the way life is in other parts of Russia. How do I know? I've actually been there.

That is a gem. Been where? Chechnya? What parts of Chechnya? How many other parts of Russia have you been? You can't compare unless you have been all over. But even being all over does not justify lording over people who don't want to be lorded over. If Chechnya gets cut in half so that people who want to be Chechnyan can be free to be Chechnyan, then so be it.

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@Lars, you are confusing desires of Chechen militants with desires of majority of Chechen people. I have been to several parts of Russia and surrounding countries, so yeah, I'm pretty sure I am more qualified to make that assessment than you are. There is an article about a militant group in US who wanted to wage war on US govt and make their own country out of 4 Michigan counties because they feel that US govt is oppressing them - are you going to support their bid for independence? You need to re-read some of your comments cause they sound unintelligent.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but reading your post I get an impression that you justify atrocities committed by Chechen terrorists against their own people (and yes, they have done a lot of that) just because they are of same nationality - care to rephrase that?

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manfromamerica, I sympathize with people who want to be free of their over-lords first and foremost. Second to that, choosing between two terrorists is difficult. The only measure I find reasonable is choosing the one with the smaller civilian casualty list.

I think that's the wrong way. Russians may have a higher "body count", but anyone who targets civilians is a terrorist plain and simple. I may sympathize with the Chechens who want freedom from Russia, but I cannot sympathize with terrorists.

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Elephunk said: you are confusing desires of Chechen militants with desires of majority of Chechen people.

No, I am not.

I have been to several parts of Russia and surrounding countries, so yeah, I'm pretty sure I am more qualified to make that assessment than you are.

No, you are not. You are no better judge of what the majority of Chechnyans want than any body else. If being there was any measure, we would not need elections. We could just grab one real Chechnyan off the street and let him decide. It does not work that way.

are you going to support their bid for independence?

If a fair election takes place with independence part of the ballot, and the majority votes for indepedence, that is that. I feel completely confident that a majority of voters in any Michigan county want to remain with the U.S. You don't seem so sure.

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HeyLars, it's right that what Elephunk says is his personal experience about Chechnya and Russian-Chechen relations, but it aligns perfectly with what is already very well documented. I am very surprised to see how you persist in you attempts to demonstrate that you have no knowledge at all about it... BTW, there are no excuses for the terrorism.

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titian, if you have proof that a majority of Chechnyans want to be a part of Russia, or anything about this that is "well-documented" how about providing a link?

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Elephunk said: Correct me if I'm wrong, but reading your post I get an impression that you justify atrocities committed by Chechen terrorists against their own people (and yes, they have done a lot of that) just because they are of same nationality - care to rephrase that?

No need to rephrase. You simply need to read my posts slowly and carefully. I am not saying the terrorism is just, I am saying its a pinky toe for an eye. Even an eye for a eye would still not be justice, but its not hard to figure out why people convince themselves that it is, and in trying to get it, will sever a pinky toe of the "enemy". If Russia wants to keep their pinky toes, they need to get out of Chechnya.

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Lol Lars, you just not gonna admit it are you? I love it hove you say that "if fair election are held then I would support it", well buddy, do you think that Chechen rebels were holding fair elections (or any kind of vote) among Chechen people asking them if the majority wanted to leave Russian Federation and create a Kavkaz Emirate? No they did not. SO how again are you going to justify their actions? They've had guns and following SU's collapse they saw an opportunity to force their agenda unto people and whoever didnt agree with them they've shot them. I was there when SU collapsed and I saw mass political movements by people in different satellite countries to gain independence - which they did with almost no fighting or resistance whatsoever. A lot of former SU countries gained independence, including my family's home country. Why do you think Chechnya was different? There was no mass political movement - there was a bunch of militants who decided to take Chechnya by force in the name of Islam and whoever didnt agree with them was killed. I'll say it again, I know what I'm talking about because I grew up in one of those "occupied" countries (so it makes me infinitely more qualified than you to speak on the subject) and despite of all the hardships that my country suffered at the hands of commies, I would pick modern Russia's rule over Sharia law each time, every time.

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Elephunk I am not justifying the militants. I am condemning the Russians. Yes, I know that if the Russians leave its either going to be militants in control or its going to be civil war. The Chechnyans can either get control of their own country or kill themselves rather than have Russians do it for them. I question Russian motives because if they are this damned sloppy at keeping the peace, who needs 'em?

Why do you think Chechnya was different?

What you say made a fine excuse to keep the oil rich country on the roster. These days you need such excuses. Plunder is not its own excuse like when it was when the Russians first took Chechnya.

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Chechnya seems to be the Russians' Afghanistan. Instead of the Taliban, they have Umarov's bunch to deal with.

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HeyLars:"If Russia wants to keep their pinky toes, they need to get out of Chechnya."

Bingo!You have summed it up perfecctly, in a way that even a child could understand it.You have an astounding gift for simplifying the abstract world of international relations,and that is a GOOD thin, since the right wingers and the haters,who will be the first to cry when they lose their pinky toes,need to cut the hate and the bias.

well,anyways,it hardly bares repeating that every religion has its extremists and the subway blasters are not really any different than the women who go to tea parties and shriek about Barack.

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Chechnya seems to be the Russians' Afghanistan

I thought Afghanistan was Russia's Vietnam.

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You have an astounding gift for simplifying the abstract world of international relations,and that is a GOOD thin

Please tell me that was satire - the last thing we need is more simplification of complex issues.

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It sounds as though Umarov has made a conscious choice to deliberately target civilians.

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