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Cheers erupt outside British Parliament as Brexit delayed again

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By MIKE CORDER

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It was a non-binding referendum till the moment PM Cameron, who is anti-Brexit by the way, said he would honor the results.

And when the results were in, he ran away. The referendum was non-binding.

Invalid CSRF

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Cheering to remain in an organization that would ultimately destroy their country's independence and sovereignty, given enough time. Morons.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

It was a non-binding referendum till the moment PM Cameron, who is anti-Brexit by the way, said he would honor the results.

A politician has no legal obligation to follow through with their promises, whereas a binding referendum requires the results be followed due to it being binding. A non-binding referendum has no legal requirement for the results to be followed, and combining this with the fact that a politician is not legally bound to their promises, there is no legal basis for the referendum to be binding, regardless of what was said.

In other words, don't trust what a politician says, trust what they do. Cameron may have said it was non-binding, but then he made it non-binding. Why would you take his words over his actions?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

It was a non-binding referendum till the moment PM Cameron, who is anti-Brexit by the way, said he would honor the results. He said: “This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide.” And he promised several times that he would abide by this. Nobody in favor or not in favor of leaving the EU went out into to streets to protest Mr. Cameron’s decision. To say now that many people wanting to remain in the EU decided to stay on the couch because it was a non-binding referendum anyway and a vote for Brexit was not expected, is ridiculous. Maybe there were many people in favor of leaving the EU but of the same opinion that it was a waste of time dragging yourself to a polling station because it was a non-binding referendum anyway and a vote for Brexit was unexpected. If you wish to rely on other people to do the voting for you, you shouldn’t complain when the results are not what you wanted them to be.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

UK Democracy does not exist in the form of 1 person 1 vote ... so the Brexit Vote.... which was the only actual real Democratic vote in the history of the United Kingdom... broke the system... as we are now seeing played out in front of us.

It was a non-binding referendum.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

What good is holding a referendum if it's not legally binding?

While there is an answer to that, the answer to the question doesn't really matter, as regardless of that answer, the referendum was non-binding.

But to answer the question, a non-binding referendum is essentially a poll run by the government. They allow governments to get a gauge on the thoughts of the populace, so they are more informed when making future decisions.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

UK Democracy does not exist in the form of 1 person 1 vote ... so the Brexit Vote.... which was the only actual real Democratic vote in the history of the United Kingdom... broke the system... as we are now seeing played out in front of us.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

.in a non-binding referendum.

What good is holding a referendum if it's not legally binding?

If a second one is held, are they going to make it binding or is Parliament just going to ignore that one too?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Well, of course he has the right to be angry, just like the majority of voters who voted to leave.

...in a non-binding referendum.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

For the people who don't like Farage, what did he say here that isn't correct?

Boris Johnson has the right to be angry

cleo - Bozo is in contempt of parliament, he lies to the Queen, he insults the other EU leaders with his schoolboy pranks - he has no right to be angry at all. Even Nigel says his deal is rubbish - why be angry that it didn't sell?

Well, of course he has the right to be angry, just like the majority of voters who voted to leave.

the country is angry

cleo - That's why huge crowds where cheering outside Parliament on Saturday?

A couple of thousand people are not representative of millions of people.

a clean break Brexit, that's the only Brexit worth having

cleo - I didn't listen to any more of his rubbish

You may think it's rubbish but millions of UK citizens don't.

As you love to say at the end of virtually every one of your posts, cleo -

Invalid CSRF

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For the people who don't like Farage, what did he say here that isn't correct?

Boris Johnson has the right to be angry

Bozo is in contempt of parliament, he lies to the Queen, he insults the other EU leaders with his schoolboy pranks - he has no right to be angry at all. Even Nigel says his deal is rubbish - why be angry that it didn't sell?

The country is angry

That's why huge crowds where cheering outside Parliament on Saturday?

a clean break Brexit, that's the only Brexit worth having

I didn't listen to any more of his rubbish, life isn't long enough.

Invalid CSRF

0 ( +3 / -3 )

This is interesting -

From Sky News Oct.20

Nigel Farage: Super Saturday was an absolute flop

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw9xu4AFLUk

For the people who don't like Farage, what did he say here that isn't correct?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

How Does The EU Actually Work

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/government/2016/06/03/how-does-the-eu-actually-work/#targetText=They%20approve%20most%20legislation%20together.&targetText=The%20European%20Parliament%20(EP)%20represents,like%20in%20a%20domestic%20setting.

Shorter uRL

https://bit.ly/2P4ZjGR

"The older the voters, the more likely they were to have voted to leave the EU. Nearly three quarters (73%) of 18 to 24 year-olds voted to remain, falling to under two thirds (62%) among 25-34s. A majority of those aged over 45 voted to leave, rising to 60% of those aged 65 or over. Most people with children aged ten or under voted to remain; most of those with children aged 11 or older voted to leave."

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

WilliB

London is a remainer hotbed. The rest of the country (with the exception of N.I. and Scotland voted solidly for Brexit. Do these propaganda aka "press" writers never give any background?

With the exception of N.I. and Scotland? Two out of four countries then. 50/50.

My own birth city Liverpool in the NW voted to remain. Large area of Wales voted to remain. About two thirds of it.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I am curious; For the British readers I am wondering if the opinion that anyone that supports Brexit is either right wing or stupid held by the majority of Brits? My experience when I was in Britain did not seem to support this.

I am neither right wing and I do not have "skin in the game" as they say (I am not British) so I am trying to understand both points of view.

For example if there is a study supporting this will make people poorer it would be interesting to read (as would one that provides the opposite point of view). It seems this issue has become increasingly more emotional.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Really, cleo? You sure?

Yup. (I think it's safe to assume that the Times polled its loyal right-wing readers?)

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-after-the-referendum/

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-think-britain-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/

Meanwhile, the answer to the question How would you vote if there was a referendum on whether to remain in the EU or leave with [Johnson’s] deal? comes up dead even, 42%/42%:

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/how-would-you-vote-if-there-was-a-referendum-on-whether-to-remain-in-the-eu-or-leave-with-johnsons-deal/

Invalid CSRF

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Sure, Chip Star, just call people who have different opinions from your own stupid. LOL.

It's not about "different opinions". Brexit will make everyone in Britain - except the wealthy! - poorer, hungrier, and more desperate, in exchange for... a different colored passport. Even Brexiters, who cheered about "getting back democracy", railed against parliament asserting its sovereignty, so they certainly don't care about that (and I know you don't).

It's objectively stupid. So is supporting a President who has brought ISIS back. As you do.

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@zichi - late reply to you (went out and then enjoyed Rugby last night).

Technically I will agree you are right - to an extent. There is a good Huffington Post article on this issue (which while substantiating what you said also provides examples to the contrary).

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/matthew-ellery/eu-referendum_b_9514608.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAMlzhS8PvKFdM7g7e_dlRL71kGG1MWZa-sE7CsZ4YbzDb5bgn_tpNyfPBx4VZUK-rNL42UGA1rvFJHD8zv8DCtcsQ-cJClZ-gCRyn3gOk1r0_FPArtuLzf46z_NqjY-wRliLWCcx_VI_iDZJ3hoowahRr7BE_7r2P-ZSUVBCWvXX

I also have a Sicilian friend. He has a winery which has been in his family for 4 generations. The winery is in a beautiful location between Taormina and Mt. Etna. He would like to remove some old vines and replant. He had to apply for permission to the local government, the Italian government, and for some reason to the EU. The local government and the Italian government quickly gave permission to replant; he was frustrated because he was waiting for an answer from the EU (I confess I do not understand all the details). I am not sure if elected officials are involved in the decision making process or not but this is the type of situation I was referring to.

I guess technically if this is a "gross error" I will accept the consequences for my errors (short of disembowelment that is)....

1 ( +1 / -0 )

arrestpaulToday  08:49 am JST

The MP's who, once again, have chosen to ignore the will of the people have, once again, stymied the will of the people.

A gross over-simplification. I think you'll find that there are plenty of pro-Leave MPs who voted against various Brexit proposals because the terms they personally wanted weren't on offer. It's also a bit disingenuous to talk about "the will of the people" when that 2016 referendum did not really give them a meaningful choice.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Never underestimate the power of stupidity, Jimizo. It's exactly why Brexit passed and also why Donny got elected.

Sure, Chip Star, just call people who have different opinions from your own stupid. LOL.

Watch the "stupid" people give the Brexit Party the majority and re-elect Trump in a landslide.

*It's the leavers who are dead set against another referendum, because they know they would lose.*

Really, cleo? You sure? Published Oct. 17, 2019 -

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/three-years-on-brexit-poll-puts-leave-ahead-by-8-points-pbwlctw7d

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

The remainers refuse to hold another referendum, or to hold another election, because they have a very real fear that they would lose.

Pardon??

It's the leavers who are dead set against another referendum, because they know they would lose.

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Whether right or wrong their argument was that they did not want un-elected officials in the EU Parliament making decisions impacting their every day life.

thats a fair reason to leave, its also a fair reason why the UK doesnt get to dictate the conditions of how they trade with the EU since they no longer want to be within the EU. Being in the EU most definitely has its advantage, if you leave the EU you most certainly dont get to keep those advantageous unless all the EU member countries agree to it.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

WTO terms Brexit,

there is no WTO Brexit, if you dont want to be in the EU anymore you dont get to have the benifits that being inthe EU entails, otherwise why would any other country want to stay in the EU. Why would any EU member want to reward the UK for leaving .

2 ( +2 / -0 )

That fact that the result of the referendum was to "leave" the E.U. clearly indicates that the majority of voters want to leave the E.U.

But it was non-binding. Why should those who didn't vote in a non-binding referendum due to it being non-binding, not be allowed to have their voices heard?

Seems some people just want to push through their own agendas regardless of what the people actually want.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

And yet it should be obvious that people have taken this "non-binding" referendum very, very seriously.

Sure. But regardless, it was a referendum, and it was non-binding.

Three PMs, and dozens of votes over various aspects of the "non-binding" referendum show that the government, and the voters, consider this to be far more important than just another poll run by the government.

Obviously not, or they would have left by now. You do realize that your comments don't match with the reality of what is happening, right?

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This proves democracy is all a sham anyway. The people of the UK voted to leave the EU.

Non-binding referendum.

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This proves democracy is all a sham anyway. The people of the UK voted to leave the EU. Yet here they are years later with no solution. And in the end people on both sides of the argument are left frustrated and disillusioned.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Strangerland - Whereas non-binding referendums don't need to be, since they aren't binding.

They're essentially a poll run by the government.

And yet it should be obvious that people have taken this "non-binding" referendum very, very seriously. Three PMs, and dozens of votes over various aspects of the "non-binding" referendum show that the government, and the voters, consider this to be far more important than just another poll run by the government.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

PTownsend - Good question. Do you have links providing evidence for your claims?

That fact that the result of the referendum was to "leave" the E.U. clearly indicates that the majority of voters want to leave the E.U.. A protest/demonstration held in any area would draw a greater number of protestors who favor one side or the other. The London area was home to more "remain" voters than "leave" voters.

The MP's who, once again, have chosen to ignore the will of the people have, once again, stymied the will of the people. The remainers refuse to hold another referendum, or to hold another election, because they have a very real fear that they would lose. If this is supposed to be a democracy, then elected representatives should act as if they live in a democracy.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@willib. Do these propaganda aka "press" writers never give any background?

Good question. Do you have links providing evidence for your claims? RT/Sputnik/Bretibart/infowars/CNN, your usual sources would suffice.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

London is a remainer hotbed. The rest of the country (with the exception of N.I. and Scotland voted solidly for Brexit. Do these propaganda aka "press" writers never give any background?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

MEPs don’t have time to investigate all the various bills that come before them sufficiently nor are they able understand the contents of said bills.

Therefore, the European Parliament is just one large rubber stamping operation....

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Here it is... to visualize the situation:

https://assets-large.qssupplies.co.uk/QS-V74106_1_lg.jpg

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The Toilet handle has been pulled....

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Ironic that Bozo's understanding of 'take back control' is to ask the EU to ignore the laws passed by the sovereign Parliament of the United Kingdom, and instead heed the word of the leader of a minority political party elected to his position by a handful of fanatics and in the post of PM by default - no one elected him to that post.

What is it the Brexeteers say about the 'unelected elite of Brussels'?

By flouting UK law and asking the EU to ignore the will of the sovereign Parliament of the U.K., which Parliament he has supposedly vowed to serve, Bozo has surely exhibited extreme contempt for Parliament, if he hasn't actually committed treason.

If the Scottish court doesn't get him, the Queen should sack him.

He's a disgrace to the office of PM.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Then Ah_so, a General Election will produce the most verifiable political outcome.

You have stated the fact Inadvertently.

That a second referendum neither produces public confiable for either nay or say.

It is a political decision differed to Parliament.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The EU countries don't have to agree to all the policies like Britain not being a member of the Euro.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

I meet several Brits who are pro Brexit and definitely not racist (some even racial minorities in the UK). Whether right or wrong their argument was that they did not want un-elected officials in the EU Parliament making decisions impacting their every day life. I found nothing racist about that at all.

The EU parliament is made up from elected politicians from each country which decides on and votes on policy. No policy is made by any unelected officials.

Gross error.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

I meet several Brits who are pro Brexit and definitely not racist (some even racial minorities in the UK). Whether right or wrong their argument was that they did not want un-elected officials in the EU Parliament making decisions impacting their every day life. I found nothing racist about that at all.

True. It’s worth remembering that one of the groups opposed to closer European integration is the ‘old left’ ( Labour was the more eurosceptic party in the past ), The grand old leftie Tony Benn was by far the most intelligent and persuasive opponent of the European project and Corbyn ( voted against closer ties to Europe ) is in that tradition. Benn was in no sense of the word a racist. My own mother is a Brexiteer and she is in no sense of the word racist.

That said, you have to be honest and say that there are some unpleasant fellow travelers in the Brexit ranks. Farage was constantly putting out fires as leader of UKIP as some of his nutters, racists and bigots got really unpleasant.

Not all Brexiteers are racists, but the lion’s share of racists are Brexiteers.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Democratic results should be respected.

Whereas non-binding referendums don't need to be, since they aren't binding.

They're essentially a poll run by the government.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Remember everyone, anyone who voted for Brexit is "dumb", "ill-informed", "racist" etc.

Incorrect, just most of them.

I meet several Brits who are pro Brexit and definitely not racist (some even racial minorities in the UK). Whether right or wrong their argument was that they did not want un-elected officials in the EU Parliament making decisions impacting their every day life. I found nothing racist about that at all.

The overuse of the term "racist" has made this adjective lose its meaning.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

This has been pointed out so many times to people desperate to try to score political points with half-baked, simplistic, partisan nonsense.

See my 9:41 post.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Democratic results should be respected.

Unless liberals aren't happy with them. Then they should be overturned.

Sigh. Many brexiteers are conservatives, liberals, socialists etc. and many remainers are conservatives, liberals, socialists etc.

This has been pointed out so many times to people desperate to try to score political points with half-baked, simplistic, partisan nonsense.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Johnson asked for the extension he said he wouldn't. Not signing it doesn't change anything. It is just showboating, what recent politics has been reduced to. If you want to write a headline, it should be "Johnson requests extension".

It looks like his deal can get the numbers and could well pass. This is mostly for two reasons, firstly because deep down the Conservative and Unionist Party do not care about Northern Ireland and secondly because the deal is ambiguous on alignment with the EU. This means that people who believe in workers' rights etc. can support it thinking they are protected and those who don't can reject the bill thinking they are not. This ambiguity also includes the possibility of a future no deal, which the ERG have openly admitted and are enthusiastic about.

Whatever happens, this is so far from consensual politics that it disgusts me. It destabilizes the country, which is already going in a nasty direction. I say this as someone who got a spouse visa for Japan but twenty years and three (British) children later would not get a UK spouse visa for my Japanese wife.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Democratic results should be respected.

Unless liberals aren't happy with them. Then they should be overturned.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Remember everyone, anyone who voted for Brexit is "dumb", "ill-informed", "racist" etc. This is the utter contempt which the left hold for everyone.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

@serranoa general election sweeping out the useless Tories and Labour politicians and voting in the Brexit Party

Curious, Tulsi and her 'financial backers' say the same thing. Curious isn't it the global alt right use the same terms from their glossary. As do those non-'westerners' from the Internet Research Agency.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

SerranoToday  09:33 am JST

Unbelievable. British politicians refusing to carry out the will of the people.

You don't have a clue about the will of the British people.

There needs to be a new nationwide vote all right - a general election sweeping out the useless Tories and Labour politicians and voting in the Brexit Party so that Britain can finally get their clean break with the EU.

If you think that the Brexit Party could win a single seat, let alone a decisive parliamentary majority it just shows how little you know.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

PM also sent a third letter to the EU requesting they reject an extension.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

During my last trip there (August) I met several Brits who just want to get this over with regardless of outcome. This did not seem to be the minority opinion. Those I do business with are also tired of sitting on the fence as their feeling is that the longer this drags on it makes it harder to make any adjustment (and the longer it drags on the better off people will be with no Brexit).

I am not British so I am not emotionally involved and I am sure there are many things I do not know but I can see both sides of this issue and I also saw an extreme difference of opinion when I was up in the north of England vs. what I saw in London (similar to the U.S. metro areas vs. what is called "flyover country").

5 ( +5 / -0 )

The Brexit Party don’t have any policies. How can you vote for a party which doesn’t have any policies?

Never underestimate the power of stupidity, Jimizo. It's exactly why Brexit passed and also why Donny got elected.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

There needs to be a new nationwide vote all right - a general election sweeping out the useless Tories and Labour politicians and voting in the Brexit Party so that Britain can finally get their clean break with the EU.

Call the general election so we can see this prediction go up in smoke.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

There needs to be a new nationwide vote all right - a general election sweeping out the useless Tories and Labour politicians and voting in the Brexit Party so that Britain can finally get their clean break with the EU.

The Brexit Party don’t have any policies. How can you vote for a party which doesn’t have any policies?

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Mr. Johnson tried to pull the same scam as the US President. He sabotaged other people plans then took the same deal that May received, repackaged it, put his name on it, expected people to vote for it, and attempted to take credit. Now he is trying to circumvent the law. (ie. This is me Boris Johnson going through the motions of following the law, but you should just ignore it because it is only for show.)

Apparently, the people (supporters and opposition ) across the pond have been watching and learning from "the Art of the Con" by the US President!

:)

1 ( +6 / -5 )

The latest delay was welcome news for those who poured into London to call for a new nationwide vote on the deal.

Unbelievable. British politicians refusing to carry out the will of the people.

There needs to be a new nationwide vote all right - a general election sweeping out the useless Tories and Labour politicians and voting in the Brexit Party so that Britain can finally get their clean break with the EU.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

...the EU was and is designed, to insulate the central government from democracy.

It's always "Us and Them", but if "they" go too far, heads will roll (a revolution or two will fix things nicely). Old Europe has seen it all before.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

You beat me to it Cleo, I didn't notice, must sound like you are trapped in an echo chamber.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

What a biased, deceitful article. "fantastic news...cheers...another chance" etc. Really don't think that these quotes are remotely representative of the mood in the uk & europe (even the euros who initially wanted britain to stay or didnt care are now fed up with the whole brexit pantomime)

I read dozens of articles last night & probably hundreds of comments (pundits & 'ordinary ppl' on both sides), many/most were embarrassed by what had just happened, and rightly so.

'Disgraceful - UK politics is a bloody joke - not again - I am embarrassed to be English - the EU should kick us out & refuse an extension - today our MPs again embarrassed our nation - I voted remain but get this deal through etc". For the first time in a long time i felt that brits -leavers & remainers- finally got it.

Only entitled/ self-centered fools were in a celebratory mood yesterday. For decent ppl on both sides, relief & or embarrassment/ frustration/ anger.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

If as you, I believe, quite rightly contend, that the current political climate is politically toxic and divisive, a prolonged second referendum legislative process followed by a brutal blame game campaign will only aggravate the situation, and the electorate, up to and beyond breaking point

Don't agree. An actual Brexit will cement the divisions. A referendum that that goes to remain will show that the population has changed its mind. If it is leave again, then we will know.

Leavers do not want a second referendum because they know they will lose. They want to exit despite the majority now wanting to remain

0 ( +5 / -5 )

We had the Remainers march in London, representing the minority.

Where are the silent majority?

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Ah_so, You have answered all your own questions, also stated with logic and reason why there should not be a second referendum.

If as you, I believe, quite rightly contend, that the current political climate is politically toxic and divisive, a prolonged second referendum legislative process

Followed by a brutal blame game campaign will only aggravate the situation, and the electorate, up to and beyond breaking point

2 ( +4 / -2 )

What I find remarkable in all of this is that so many MPs are fighting so hard to Remain in the EU, when it is becoming crystal clear that the power of national parliaments / legislative bodies in the EU will shrink so much that they will have no ability to impact the future of the country in question.

In essence, they are fighting so hard to give away their own power to a central government in the form of the EU.

Which might not be all that bad if that was the objective, except that the central government in the form of the EU government is entirely undemocratic. It is run and controlled by non-elected officials and bureaucrats, with the value of MEPs being virtually nil.

And with the EU already looking for defence and foreign affair functions to be handled by the EU, ultimately the average person in any given EU country will have no ability to effect change.

Which is how the EU was and is designed, to insulate the central government from democracy.

A recipe for disaster and abuse in the future. Mark my words.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Another referendum would be the most politically toxic and divisive action this dysfunctional parliament could undertake. 

Politically toxic and decisive is exactly where the UK is today.

If public opinion is now a majority to remain, as many believe it is, surely it would be an affront to democracy not to hold another.

All those 15-18 year old who were not eligible to vote before have had their future decided by people, many of whom have now died of old age

There is no unity in the country or in parliament. A referendum is needed.

And if those who believe that the last referendum reflected the will of the people back then, then surely they won't dear another.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Johnson sent three letters, the first on behalf of parliament, unsigned, the second from government stating the first is only the opinion of parliament and the Third basically basically demanding that the EU refrain from extending A50. so essentially ignoring the first.

The *Benn Act** * in all its haste is flawed and poorly written

3 ( +4 / -1 )

He’s also sent a signed letter saying he doesn’t agree with the first letter and only sent it under duress. He says it’s the opinion of Parliament, not his opinion, and that the 27 should therefore ignore it.

He apparently thinks that gets him around the law. Hopefully it will get him in court.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

3 years ago the crystal ball showed a stinking, sticky fudge at the end of the Brexit brick road. What else could be expected from the bunch of wily, shifty chancers "representing" "the people"? One consolation is that the UK isn't yet a police state and that democracy still breathes as manifested by the huge gathering of people who want to "take back control" from the Joker(s) in Parliament.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

PM Bozo has sent an unsigned letter to the EU requesting an extension.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I am glad I didn't place a wager on the outcome, I would have been crying in my Gin an Tonic.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Wasn't expecting this outcome. Not never but not today.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

A plebiscite that could effect UK membership of the European Union cannot deemed to be legally binding.

The ultimate sovereignty must be endorsed then exercised first by Parliament and ultimately the European Court of Justice until treaty law. (Lisbon Treaty). I think this whole sorry mess reaches beyond UK membership of the EU. The people are losing all conference and trust in UK parliamentary democracy.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Burning BushToday  07:30 am JST

I was talking about the half of UK society that wants Brexit.

If you could ask them what they meant exactly by "Brexit" you would get a dozen different answers.

The media seems to want to pretend that they don't exist.

The media, like The Sun, The Telegraph and The Daily Mail?

3 ( +8 / -5 )

A second referendum will be seized upon as a duplicitous underhand attempt to ignore the first.

The first was non-binding.

That's why it would have to be a binding referendum........A referendum by its very definition and nature, is a single issue binary vote. This fact differentiates a binary vote to a general election

An election would work as well.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Another referendum would be the most politically toxic and divisive action this dysfunctional parliament could undertake. The question and format surrounding a second referendum, could well take more than 18 months to find any agreement, if agreement at all. The campaign would be utterly poisonous and could lead to civil unrest.

A second referendum will be seized upon as a duplicitous underhand attempt to ignore the first.

The deceitful strategy. tactics and political methodology behind Oliver Letwin amendment is deeply subversive and corrosive.

Only a General Election will provide a sliver of hope of legitimacy or a mandate to govern.

I have nothing but genuine sympathy for the EU 27.

That's why it would have to be a binding referendum........A referendum by its very definition and nature, is a single issue binary vote. This fact differentiates a binary vote to a general election

Why would such a change in the law, that would ultimately undermine the sovereignty of parliament be suggested if it was not because of a cynical, may I suggest arrogance, that can not, will not accept the 2016 result.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Funny the media doesn't mention the other half of society which is disappointed that the government has delayed it's sovereign duty to the citizens yet again.

-3 ( +11 / -14 )

I've been listening to the debate on the Bloomberg cable channel. One does learn a lot about British politics.

There are many issues in play, but to me there is one decisive one. The Brexit referendum was sold on false premises, and was tainted by a Russian cyber attack. Yes, the same GRU that is killing Brits on British soil. The vote really needs to be redone with more security.

0 ( +11 / -11 )

The truth is that if another referendum were held, between Remain and a clean, WTO terms Brexit, and Leave were to win once again, those that favor remain would still fight the results. I am certain of that.

That's why it would have to be a binding referendum.

Then, the truth is that if another referendum were held, and leave were to win once again, those in favor would go along with the results. I'm certain of that.

It's the truth you see.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

As I predicted, nothing was decided today.

The truth is that if another referendum were held, between Remain and a clean, WTO terms Brexit, and Leave were to win once again, those that favor remain would still fight the results. I am certain of that.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

'Tis the season, after all. Almost, but early isn't bad.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

"Give them another say," she said. Couldn't agree more.

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

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