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Cheney defends U.S. spy programs

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Snowden is a freedom fighter. Ironically, being protected by vilified China

2013 is fast turning into a dystopian future...

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Snowden is an idiot, if he truly believed that what he's doing is right, why run? I would NEVER run it I felt I was right in a dispute, NEVER. Who the Hell is he to decide what is good for the entire nation, this guy has no idea what damage he has done! I really hope the Chinese will turn him over and he spends the rest of his miserable life in solitary confinement.

-13 ( +4 / -17 )

Cheney is the traitor. Why isn't he held accountable for his lies and crimes?

10 ( +14 / -4 )

The only thing Snowden has done is to speak truth to power publicly, revealing the hideous, ugly underbelly of the empire and its machinations.

Of course Dick Cheney defends the programs! So would Stalin, Mao, et al.

Albert Speer Minister of Armaments in Nazi Germany

Speer: "There are things for which one is guilty even if one might offer excuses - simply because the crime is so overwhelming that by comparison any human excuse pales to insignificance."

Speer: "Technology [can be used] to multiply [genocide]. ... The more technological the world becomes, the more essential ... individual freedom and the self-awareness of the individual human being [will be] as a counterpoise to technology."

5 ( +8 / -3 )

@scrote

Because Cheney did nothing wrong, the man is a hero in my book and I for one am happy that he doesn't back down to liberal BS! Get over on him and Bush should be arrested, will never, ever happen. That bus left years ago.

-14 ( +3 / -17 )

My guy and me say Cheney is the true traitor. He was behind the start of these programs. I wonder if they tap my phone and internet? What will come next checkpoints around America, PAPERS!! Oh wait they already have them for the INS.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Dick Cheney is a criminal and apparently misunderstands "traitor" under the Constitution's definition. It's sickening how cutely he cites the PNAC's "Pearl Harbor" reference. (PNAC stands for Project for a New American Century.)

5 ( +9 / -4 )

" “The reason we got into it was because we’ve been attacked—and (a) worse attack than Pearl Harbor,”

Cheney, and many like him, willfully ignore the fact that the empire's adventurism abroad has consequences in the form of blowback. Pearl Harbor also was blowback, contrary to the tale that has been told over the decades.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Hope he doesn't go duck hunting again. Joking aside, the NSA has the capability to listen in to your conversations even when your cell phone is turned off. The cell phone can be used as a bugging device.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

@Jean

contrary to the tale that has been told over the decades.

And what tale was that?

The only thing Snowden has done is to speak truth to power publicly, revealing the hideous, ugly underbelly of the empire and its machinations.

At the same time revealing vital tactics and methods we use to spy on our enemies, it amazes me how some people don't get it, once the people that want to kill us, know how to, then it will be of course much easier, bottom line. That in itself is hideous and stop saying the US is an Empire, never was, wanted to be and never will be! Snowden belongs in Prison, life preferably.

Of course Dick Cheney defends the programs! So would Stalin, Mao, et al.

As he should. I don't see the correlation between Stalin and Mao though if you are implying that the US murders millions of its citizens, you are insane, even lumping them together is laughable.

-11 ( +0 / -11 )

At the same time revealing vital tactics and methods we use to spy on our enemies, it amazes me how some people don't get it, once the people that want to kill us, know how to, then it will be of course much easier, bottom line

That's right, once your enemies figure out they only need to put guns in the hands of US citizens, then its all over - you will start shooting each other in regular massacres. Oh, hang on, that already happens - now where did all those guns come from?? No "foreign" enemies needed for that problem eh??

hat in itself is hideous and stop saying the US is an Empire, never was, wanted to be and never will be!

oh please, don't make me laugh. Your right though, the modern terminology isn't Empire is it - that's so European, so 19th century. There are far better expressions that spin doctors use these days to describe the same (usually covert) actions

1 ( +5 / -4 )

That's right, once your enemies figure out they only need to put guns in the hands of US citizens, then its all over - you will start shooting each other in regular massacres. Oh, hang on, that already happens - now where did all those guns come from?? No "foreign" enemies needed for that problem eh??

It's is what I'm talking about, you liberals don't see the bigger picture. Like I said, if Obama does it, it's for the security of the country. Also, I'm talking about when it comes to any kind of threat towards the US, foreign or domestic. And yes, most of the threats are foreign threats.

oh please, don't make me laugh. Your right though, the modern terminology isn't Empire is it - that's so European, so 19th century.

Yes, exactly.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Right message, horrible messenger.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Cheney said in the same interview:

As everybody who's been associated with the program's said, if we had had this before 9/11, when there were two terrorists in San Diego -- two hijackers -- had been able to use that program, that capability, against that target, we might well have been able to prevent 9/11.

Perhaps he has forgotten the warning from the CIA on May 1 that "a group presently in the United States" was planning to strike, the one on June 22 that an attack could be "imminent," and the well-known August 6 warning "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.."

I agree with SuperLib: Right message, infamous messenger.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

What Snowden revealed was American hypocrisy. They spy on others and then cry foul over others alleged spying. They jail and torture people in Gitmo and cry foul when others do the same. If not for Snowden, they will still pretend to stand on high moral ground. I will not call Snowden a hero exactly. But he did right for the world but damaged US credibility. We used to laugh when China cried foul over other people's human rights records! Well, we too can now laugh when the US cries foul over others transgressions. Snowden has leveled the playing field!

1 ( +5 / -4 )

DICK Cheney is a fat corrupt Republican lard! He and BUSH both have so much BLOOD on their dirty hands! I think HE IS THE TRAITOR! Nice to know he does not LISTEN much to Obama, why??? Scum like Cheney just want POWER! $$$$ and they do not care how they get it! Snowden, not too sure about this so called whistle blower but Cheney deserves to BURN in hell along with that Donald Rumsfeld! Both are liars! So they tricked AMERICA to attack Iraq for weapons of mass destruction!! And where are they???????

4 ( +8 / -4 )

I think 'traitor' is a bit extreme, as treason is an attempt to endager the people and sovereignty of a nation.

However, Snowden's contract with the government allowed him access to classified national security information in exchange for his services, and presumably warned him against the release of that information. He violated the contract and the law with his action and should be held accountable.

Also, I agree with you, bass4funk. If Snowden is so sure his actions were just, then he should have stayed and accepted responsibility. It's the same as masked rioters; if you have to hide your identity or location to make a demand or statement, then that demand or statement is worthless.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

The saying" The worst enemy to you, is your own kind" Americans worst enemy are Americans, and that goes for all countries. Those faceless individuals,bureaucrats,plus the 1% are the the cause of all the problems worldwide. Politicians are just the puppets, with their misguided foreign policies, and selfish personal agenda's. Since the day I was born there hasn't been one single day of peace on this great planet of ours, there has always been an armed conflict going on somewhere in the world.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Since the day I was born there hasn't been one single day of peace on this great planet of ours....

You horrible person! ; )

2 ( +4 / -2 )

If Snowden had revealed the information WHILE IN US, he would have been black-bagged by now.

It's noteworthy that Dan Elsberg is supportive of not only Snowden, but also, Bradley Manning, and Julian Assange.

The Empire hates to be made to look bad like the beast it is. And so anyone who comes out to expose it becomes the target of endless character assassination much like the target of 5-minutes hate from Orwell's 1984.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Wow, the 'Traitor!' camp must be really desperate.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Also, I agree with you, bass4funk. If Snowden is so sure his actions were just, then he should have stayed and accepted responsibility. It's the same as masked rioters; if you have to hide your identity or location to make a demand or statement, then that demand or statement is worthless.

Exactly! To a certain point, I would have backed Snowden, had he done just that, but him going into hiding and revealing high class info, that our enemies are happy to hear about, countries like China and Russia. I know you liberals don't usually think deep enough, but what about the people in the field, people that are on assignment and or working in other countries. This guy just opened his mouth on an impulse, not thinking at all about the repercussions. What's the purpose of even having a spy agency when you can't even keep secrets. If you guys think like that, then you also think it was wrong to get secret intel from Al Qaeda and other Islamist Terrorists. OBL kept the plans for 9/11 secret, we didn't have the right to find out. The same with Benghazi? Oh, my bad, it wasn't a coverup, I forget, liberals are above doing anything shady.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Cheney is a war criminal and why he, Bush, Rumsfeld and Rice are still walking around free, I don't know.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Dick Cheney ordered the US military to stand down on 9/11. http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/mineta_confirms_cheney_ordered_911_stand_down.htm

Dick Cheney has a interpol arrest warrant from Nigeria. http://www.globalresearch.ca/dick-cheney-is-officially-a-wanted-man/22319

People and media should not be "safe harboring" this known criminal and traitor.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Funny thing about your posts, bass - on occasion I find myself nodding in agreement with my cursor hovering over the thumbs up button until you most inevitably verve into craziness.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

"The worry ( Cheney ) added was that future attackers would turn to deadlier weapons than ever before - including nuclear and biological weapons. "When you consider somebody smuggling a nuclear device into the United States, it becomes very important to gather intelligence on your enemies and stop that attack before it ever gets launched."

Who would disagree with this except our enemies?

"Cheney is a criminal"

Then why hasn't President Obama had him arrested?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

badsey3,

People and media should not be "safe harboring" this known criminal and traitor.

Well said, and excellent links too.

There is a mess of worms to be uncovered here.

As to why Obama hasn't had him arrested, Serrano-san, that is a question I would very much like to have answered.

Why indeed?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I know you liberals don't usually think deep enough, but what about the people in the field, people that are on assignment and or working in other countries?

What a fertile imagination. Should be put to good use some time.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Yeah because Cheney is such a credible person and not in any way a war criminal

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Bertie - Obama hasn't had Cheney arrested because - get ready - Cheney isn't a criminal.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

...what about the people in the field, people that are on assignment and or working in other countries.

Ah, that reminds me of - Plamegate! Imagine that a vice president of the United States might be involved in outing a CIA officer with official cover, simply to score a political point! Who would stoop to that type of skulduggery?!

According to Cheney’s testimony (to the FBI), Cheney could not recall information 72 times. This included that Cheney could not remember discussing Valerie Plame with Scooter Libby, although Mr. Libby testified that he remembered discussing Valerie Plame with Cheney on two occasions. Cheney had considerable disdain for the CIA, as he spoke of the incompetence of the organization, and three times said “amateur hour” in reference to CIA actions. Some observers say that Cheney’s faulty memory was his method to avoid telling the truth, and to avoid potential prosecution. In closing arguments at Libby's trial, special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald said “a cloud over the vice president," persisted.

Ah - THAT Dick Cheney. Kinda makes me miss a real scandal.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

It's a good thing Bush and Cheney defeated Kerry and Edwards in 2004.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

" It's a good thing Bush and Cheney defeated Kerry and Edwards in 2004."

It's a sad thing that TPTB only allow such choices. Not a snowball's chance for any third party in reality.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

bass4funk: why USA is in a permanent state of war? Why USA have so many enemies?

Trying to understand that and find solutions to the root problems would be a big step. I am not naive, but USA exaggerate by far everywhere in the world where you can find a barrel of oil.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Terrorists want to destroy our way of life. They envy our freedom. We can't let them hurt us and our freedom.

Therefore, we should do our best imitation of every dictator we've ever encountered, and change all our laws so that spying on our people, shooting bad Americans while they are overseas, ignoring international law, ignoring national boundaries, failing to let Congress vote whether we have a war or not, and so on and so on, are all legal. Oh, and shooting hunting companions will also be legal.

This will really confuse the terrorists. They won't know what to do.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

sf2k,

Yeah because Cheney is such a credible person and not in any way a war criminal

Well, try Googling, "Cheney war criminal," or "Cheney war crimes," and see how much information you come up with. There is simply too much to post here.

Cheney defends spy programs, he also defends torture and it was he who suppressed any real investigation of 9/11.

Check it out.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Cheney is the real traitor. Sadly many praised and glorified this man in the past, but his approval rating dropped to under 20% (even among Americans) in the end.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Bass4funk,

I missed this the first time I saw your post:

(Snowden) going into hiding and revealing high class info, that our enemies are happy to hear about, countries like China and Russia.

China and Russia are your enemies?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

It's a sad thing that TPTB only allow such choices.

You mean the Electoral College?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Oh come on Cheney..... the attacked was just your damn ploy to make ignorant and stupid people to believed it was done by the Bushes friend Osama Bin Ladin... It was actually you and your greedy group Haliburton, Ramsfeld and the rest who have coined the 9/11 attack. Why? To rationalize the reason that Sadam was in cahoots with Osama. A reason to invade Iraq not for getting Sadam but for the oil. USA destoryed Iraq and Haliburton have a contract to rebuild it. Only the stupids cannot analyze the true facts and ploy.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

bijhista65, The reason is simple: the Bush Administration and its Congressional committee have refused at every turn to allow for any oversight at all, even though Democratic Senators have asked for such bi-partisan review for years. Halliburton paid over $2 million in campaign contributions to Republicans as hush money to keep the terms of the contracts. Iraq for sale tells the story of that gruesome ride for profits. Halliburton's stock has risen substantially since the invasion of Iraq.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Cheney is a war criminal and why he, Bush, Rumsfeld and Rice are still walking around free, I don't know.

In order to be arrested you need to commit a crime first.

Well, try Googling, "Cheney war criminal," or "Cheney war crimes," and see how much information you come up with. There is simply too much to post here.

Since most of the media is liberal, they never liked Cheney, solely based on that, never gave him or Bush a chance, from day one. Not even a "let's see how they govern first attitude" they were just slaughtered from the beginning. Obama comes along and the media treats him like a rock star. So basically, Americans want a celebrity in the WH, not a politician. You think Obama is doing a great job now with all that's going on with these scandals?

Cheney defends spy programs, he also defends torture and it was he who suppressed any real investigation of 9/11.

The current admin. Defends spying at the highest level, but I guess, you haven't been reading the news lately. The IRS targeting conservatives, the DOJ, NSA. So you are essentially saying, Obama does it, it's fine, Cheney does it, it's bad. And surprised what REAL 9/11 investigation? Don't go Charlie Sheen on me now, please!

China and Russia are your enemies?

I don't see us taking windy walks on a Caribbean beach together. Let's say, we are tolerable of each other and depending on the issues, we have a lukewarm relationship, but outright trust, NO. If the Russians and the Chinese (especially) could understand a lot of our military technology and get it anyway they can, anyhow they can, they would. In a nutshell, they are enemies, if you think in China's case, they would never, ever think of attacking us, then you really need to study more about Geopolitics.

Check it out.

This is the problem with society nowadays, everyone thinks all the answers are on youtube or the Internet, instead of doing real research and leg work, you think just with a mouse click and some fantasy crap someone uploaded, it's true. Sad to say, a big chunk of it is crap.

@open

Trying to understand that and find solutions to the root problems would be a big step. I am not naive, but USA exaggerate by far everywhere in the world where you can find a barrel of oil.

Hmmm, I think the US has done that over the years. You say, you're not naive, but you talk as if the previous admin. Just didn't know how to reach out.and your the smartest person in the room with alll the answers. And stop with the "they wanted only the oil crap" everything in your life in your home has some element of oil in it. Every country needs oil, everyone. Yes, the US, Russia mad China need and use more oil, but we are bigger nations, therefore, we need more oil. But yes, you need it too, so please don't start with that childish oil argument.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

bajhista65 Jun. 18, 2013 - 02:28AM JST A reason to invade Iraq not for getting Sadam but for the oil. USA destoryed Iraq and Haliburton have a contract to rebuild it. Only the stupids cannot analyze the true facts and ploy.

Yes, U.S. didn't find WMD in Iraq after Powell went to United Nations. It turn out to be a big lie. I suppose it is not that they hate Americans but they strongly disagree with the American government's foreign policy. I do not think it is fair to blame people for disliking Americans because of their President or their Government policy. However, America is democracy, the government's policy is supposedly reflecting the American people's sentiments. Most of the Americans have strong oppositions or opinions to U.S. middle east and far east policies, which has been the continue problem. How do expect U.S. military keeps spending $700 billion a year to patrol the world? It is not substainable.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Bass4funk,

This is the problem with society nowadays, everyone thinks all the answers are on youtube or the Internet, instead of doing real research and leg work, you think just with a mouse click and some fantasy crap someone uploaded, it's true. Sad to say, a big chunk of it is crap.

Yes, I thought that too.

Course, it doesn't apply to you, Bass, does it?

most of the media is liberal

So most of the media is wrong.

Hmmmmmm.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

A reason to invade Iraq not for getting Sadam but for the oil. USA destoryed Iraq and Haliburton have a contract to rebuild it. Only the stupids cannot analyze the true facts and ploy.

Right, so I'll do it for you. The Shiite v. Sunni problem started when the grandson of the Prophet was killed by one of the Prophet's companions who h to the top spot when Mohammad died. That grandson was named Hussain ibn Ali and he was killed because he was thought to be a challenger to the authority of the successors of the Prophet. Hence Shia are 'partisans of Ali' and Sunnis are loyal to the centuries long succession of companions of the Prophet.

The bitterness of Ali's ruthless death (his party was surrounded by the Caliph's men at the battle of Karbala, showered with thousands of arrows, and his head was rolled across a carpet to the feet of the Caliph to prove the pesky grandson was dead) has continued unabated since the seventh century. It was the reason for the hundred thousand deaths in Iraq when we got between the two sides after the invasion to dislodge Saddam. The root cause was sectarian, NOT from the US liberating, that is a small, minuscule reason. 60% of the Iraqis are Shiite and about 40% Sunni But I know, it's easier to say Bush and Cheney were responsible, the same old liberal text book mantra.

Yes, U.S. didn't find WMD in Iraq after Powell went to United Nations. It turn out to be a big lie.

Based on faulty intel, not only by the US, but from CIA, Britain, Russian, Israel, Egyptian and French intelligence. Everyone seems to always forget that one.

Let's make that clear, they all exchanged intel and based on those premise and after Iraq violated article resolution 1441 about 14 times to open up to the weapons inspectors and was non-compliant, allowed us to go in.

http://www.un.org/depts/unmovic/documents/1441.pdf#search='iraq+resolution+1441'

I suppose it is not that they hate Americans but they strongly disagree with the American government's foreign policy. I do not think it is fair to blame people for disliking Americans because of their President or their Government policy.

I really don't give a fig if the world likes us or not. Seriously, I never thought it was a popularity contest.

However, America is democracy, the government's policy is supposedly reflecting the American people's sentiments. Most of the Americans have strong oppositions or opinions to U.S. middle east and far east policies, which has been the continue problem. How do expect U.S. military keeps spending $700 billion a year to patrol the world? It is not substainable.

Yes, with Obama cutting our defense budget, no doubt.

@bertie

Yes, I thought that too.

Course, it doesn't apply to you, Bass, does it?

I work in the media, so I rely on different sources. Do I watch Youtube, of course, but I don't always use it as the main source of my overall analysis.

So most of the media is wrong.

The Liberal media, YES. Which makes up of about 98%

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Are Republicans just too stupid to understand what kind of a scum bag liar, corrupt to the core of his evil soul DICK Cheney, Rumselfd etc...really are??? THEY LIED! They lied to ALL OF US!! WHY?? To get us into the IRAQ war and Cheney, was a the owner of that one company, selling pizzas to the army for $90 USD!! Coke cans for $15 a can, etc..HALIIBURTON, now I remember the company name, is it NOT A CRIME to be so corrupt??? To lie and get young American men and women killed, or have their arms and legs blown off in Iraq,when the SAUDIS were the terrorists who attacked the USA on 9/11!! Not Iraqis!! If people (Republicans can not understand this) then we have REAL problem with the perception of reality, my guess liars like that scum DICK Cheney are just in denial, and want to keep fooling stupid people to justify why they have so much $$$$$ and at the same time, young American men and women get suckered into fighting for their country, while scum corrupt liars like CHENEY just keep getting richer$$$, so maybe this Snowden is not so bad after all??

0 ( +3 / -3 )

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