world

Rioters acted on Trump's orders, Democrats say in trial

83 Comments
By LISA MASCARO, ERIC TUCKER, MARY CLARE JALONICK and JILL COLVIN

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

© Copyright 2021 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without permission.

©2021 GPlusMedia Inc.


83 Comments

Comments have been disabled You can no longer respond to this thread.

No, it’s relevant,

Nope.

we get Dems don’t want to talk about last year, but we won’t forget.

Liberals and dems are both perfectly happy talking about last year; however, we insist any discussion be based in fact and adhere to logic.

Again, you want to get back at Trump, censure him, but nope, the Dems once again one to make themselves look like fools. Smh.....

The only people making themselves look like fools are those defending Trump and/or refusing to condemn him.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Ted Cruz, Lindsey Graham, and Rand Paul all had their private homes broken into. Mobs smashed all their furniture and broke all the windows. They, their wives, and children were hiding in the basement. Some in the mob had ropes to hang people....

The mob was incited to break into these homes because a neighbor down the street had been alleging for two months that they were in their homes illegally - that the property belonged to him. Of course, he offered no evidence of this and lost in court over 60 times. But he still told the other residents to "march down to the homes", "fight like hell" and to "take their neighborhood back".

After the riot and breaking in, Ted, Lindsey and Rand weren't angry. In fact, they said the neighbor was still their friend, and they didn't want him arrested or put on trial. They still liked and respected him....

This neighbor even called Ted's wife ugly and that his father was a terrorist....Ted didn't care - he still likes him...

Welcome to the Repub party of 2021...

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Nothing there apart from the evidence, the speech, the years of him telling supporters to be violent towards protesters

It’s funny how Democrats have very much of a short memory, with Maxine Waters called for harassing Trump supporters and people in to Mitch McConnell‘s home and Tucker Carlson‘s home and harassed Charlie Kirk and Candace Owens and Sarah Huckabee sanders while she was out with her family, harass trumps youngest son Barron, that was somehow acceptable?

And yet the far right apologists be like, "you didn't see this".

The left as well.

Trump would never be impeached the first time, that the moon is made of cheese etc, etc.

But he won’t be convicted, what a waste of time, again.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

Sadly, schools weren’t part of the Dems target last year.

Wow. Calling for schools to be attacked. A new low.

No, there’s just nothing there, even Trump’s lawyers are not that good, but it doesn’t matter, just find anyone that’ll get through and past this garbage, acquit Trump and move on.

Nothing there apart from the evidence, the speech, the years of him telling supporters to be violent towards protesters at his rallies, 4 years all on tape/video, all well-documented.

And yet the far right apologists be like, "you didn't see this".

Liberals heard that and conservatives heard him pushing for peace and respect.

Am neither of the above.

But millions heard the man incite violence. Even conservative friends heard it.

I am sure the GOP thinks the same about the Dems and their supporters.

45ists were sure that Biden would never get in, that Trump would never be impeached the first time, that the moon is made of cheese etc, etc.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I think they mostly just committed school shootings.

Sadly, schools weren’t part of the Dems target last year.

What does this mean? It looks like you're saying that you are upset that Democratic politicians didn't commit school shootings. I'm sure that can't be what you mean. Can you elaborate?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

oh, but it is expected that the Democrats would carefully and conveniently choose excerpts that fit their twisted political narrative so you can focus on the negative part of his speech and cherry pick whatever you want, will focus on the positive part.

Oh, sure. I mean, Stalin and Hitler weren't all bad. They weren't calling for people to be locked up all the time. And you know, neither of them actually physically killed anyone. Others did that. Neither dictator can really be blamed when their words were taken out of context, when you think about it, right?

The far right are desperate to squirm out of this.

Everyone heard Trump's words and violent rhetoric, not just on the day but throughout his dreadful presidency.

Absolute filth, anyone supporting the man, at this stage.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Looking forward to all of the video evidence to come of Democrats inciting their followers to violence. We saw some of that in the shooting of Republicans on a baseball field outside DC. The storming of the Supreme Court building at Schumer’s command.

We didn’t see any of this at all.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Conservatives rioted, looted and burned down buildings during Obama’s Presidency????

I think they mostly just committed school shootings.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

he just said what 49% of yanks believe.

Trump was the one who lied about the election results. This is like saying that it's right that a university professor fail their students who don't believe that Santa Claus is real, because the professor's child believes that Santa Claus is real (because the professor told them to believe it).

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Although I am not nor have I evern been a Trump supporter by any means I believe this trial is a waste of time as it is not constitutional

It is, actually. Trump was impeached when he was president, and the Senate must preside over impeachment trials. No time limit for this exists in the constitution. Unless you believe that if a President committed treason against the US in the last week of their presidency there should be no punishment. Which is a silly thing to believe.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Very thin case the Dems are putting on. Remember when Biden told a union crowd out West how he wanted to “take Trump behind the gym and beat the hell out of him?” Yes - he actually said that. That was much worse talk of violence than anything cited by the far Left impeachment managers.

It’s bizarre how these loons were aching to impeach Trump even before he took office and haven’t let up even after he left. Given the repetitive and unsupported allegations we have seen thus far Trump has gained votes for acquittal and his defense hasn’t even started yet. Looking forward to all of the video evidence to come of Democrats inciting their followers to violence. We saw some of that in the shooting of Republicans on a baseball field outside DC. The storming of the Supreme Court building at Schumer’s command. Weak case.

-14 ( +1 / -15 )

Someone forgot the wink-wink, nudge-nudge.

Yes, let’s give the Democrats false hope and make them believe they can get Trump convicted. Lol

-13 ( +0 / -13 )

The Democrats chose a moderate to run against Trump which turned out to be a winning strategy. They didn’t go with the more progressive Warren or Sanders. During one of the debates, Trump said Biden had lost the far left ‘base’ by not going all in with this group’s ideas. He was wrong.

Lol, ok

Clearly, not a man of peace. And he lied he didn't March on the Capitol like he said.

Now liberals care supposedly NOW about peace? Give me a break. Dems have been calling and using violent verbal rhetoric for 4 years and now, just shove it all aside and focus on Trump? Ok, your side can do that.

-14 ( +0 / -14 )

Someone put it this way:

When you lose half your IQ, all you're left with is Q.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

you can focus on the negative part of his speech and cherry pick whatever you want, will focus on the positive part.

You forgot the part where Trump said he'd march with his mob to the capitol. He didn't. He went back inside and watched the siege on TV, gleefully at that.

You also forgot to mention how Trump didn't take any action for two hours after the siege started. He even left it up to Pence to call in the National Guard. And then got his press secretary to lie about that afterward.

You also forgot to mention how Trump told his mob that he loves them and that their actions were the natural consequence of an election having been stolen (which of course was a lie fabricated by Trump).

Trump incited an insurrection. He is guilty and always will be, regardless of the spineless GOP senators failing to convict him.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

You are aware he was called to testify but refused to, right?

Which is what subpoenas are for, to compel those with something to hide to take the stand and tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth (admittedly a stretch for the prodigiously mendacious Trump, as we will be able to ascertain in the string of criminal trials to come). Nobody can condone what the deluded rioters perpetrated on January 6, but we know in advance the severe punishments that will be meted out to the powerless, low-hanging fruit and nut cases while those wretched hypocrites in high places who surreptitiously supported and encouraged them will continue to gaslight and moralize from their comfortable seats of power.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

he wasn’t there when a war veteran was shot in the head at near point blank.

Being a veteran is not a free pass to commit crimes.

he just said what 49% of yanks believe.

49% of those who voted think. This is far different than 49% of Yanks.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

After the House impeachment managers finished presenting their arguments against former President Donald Trump, three of his staunchest Republican supporters in the Senate — Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, Mike Lee of Utah, and Ted Cruz of Texas — conferred with Trump's attorneys, who will present their defense on Friday.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ted-cruz-lindsey-graham-mike-025400678.html

Jurors aren’t suppose to meet with either side’s attorneys. This is further evidence that republicans condone Trump’s actions. Spineless.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

**I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard***. **

Someone forgot the wink-wink, nudge-nudge.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

Death of democracy and free speech. Big Tech and AI now control the world. Trump maybe an idiot, but he wasn’t there when a war veteran was shot in the head at near point blank.

he just said what 49% of yanks believe.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

and putting citizen Trump on the stand.

You are aware he was called to testify but refused to, right?

9 ( +9 / -0 )

It looks like the Dems flubbed it again by failing to conduct a proper trial with witnesses and putting citizen Trump on the stand. They signally avoided, out of cowardice and fear of future retaliation, rubbing the noses of Trump's Republican enablers into the stinking pile of dereliction of duty and lawlessness of the 45th and holding their feet to the fire, thus letting Trump and his Republican cohorts off scot free to wreak more mayhem in the future. Now only a criminal trial can save the Republic from the right's depredation of democracy.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

bass4funk

"We're gathered together in the heart of our nation's Capitol for one very, very basic and simple reason, to save our democracy."

"We will not let them silence your voices. We're not going to let it happen. Not going to let it happen."

"Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore and that's what this is all about. To use a favorite term that all of you people really came up with, we will stop the steal."

"That's what they've done and what they're doing. We will never give up. We will never concede, it doesn't happen. You don't concede when there's theft involved."

"When you catch somebody in a fraud, you're allowed to go by very different rules."

"Let them get out. Let the weak ones get out. This is a time for strength....It's all part of the comprehensive assault on our democracy and the American people to finally standing up and saying, 'No.' This crowd is again a testament to it."

"You will have an illegitimate president, that's what you'll have. And we can't let that happen."

"We will not be intimidated into accepting the hoaxes and the lies that we've been forced to believe over the past several weeks. We've amassed overwhelming evidence about a fake election."

"We're going to see whether or not we have great and courageous leaders or whether or not we have leaders that should be ashamed of themselves throughout history, throughout eternity, they'll be ashamed. And you know what? If they do the wrong thing, we should never ever forget that they did. Never forget. We should never ever forget."

Clearly, not a man of peace. And he lied he didn't March on the Capitol like he said.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

Yep. The Repubs are too afraid to convict Trump because their base support him. 

Liberals and their base support AOC and the Squad, go figure. I doubt they would turn against them either.

The Democrats chose a moderate to run against Trump which turned out to be a winning strategy. They didn’t go with the more progressive Warren or Sanders. During one of the debates, Trump said Biden had lost the far left ‘base’ by not going all in with this group’s ideas. He was wrong.

Trump is an unabashed conspiracy theorist and a walking YouTube comments section. The QAnon-Hugo Chavez-voting-machine-Jewish-Space-Laser party saw an extremist at the top.

The Democrats didn’t do this and won handsomely.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

Liberals and their base support AOC and the Squad

I will completely stop supportting AOCwhen she incites a violent mob that storms the Capitol building in order to kidnap and murder elected officials. That's the main difference between our two sides, I guess.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

telling his supporters to respectfully and peacefully March to the Capitol?

?????????

We're going to walk down. Anyone you want, but I think right here, we're going to walk down to the Capitol..And we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them

*We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated. Lawfully slated, said the president. **I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard***. **

So violent, there’s just no other choice between peach a former president based on that statement. Again, no conviction and the Dems lose again. Lol

Yeah, funny how the Democrats didn’t include that in there arguments oh, but it is expected that the Democrats would carefully and conveniently choose excerpts that fit their twisted political narrative so you can focus on the negative part of his speech and cherry pick whatever you want, will focus on the positive part.

-11 ( +0 / -11 )

bass4funk

telling his supporters to respectfully and peacefully March to the Capitol?

?????????

What Trump said before his supporters stormed the Capitol, annotated

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2021/annotated-trump-speech-jan-6-capitol/

8 ( +8 / -0 )

No, it’s just many of us see what this charade is 

Through willful ignorance.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Yep. The Repubs are too afraid to convict Trump because their base support him.

Liberals and their base support AOC and the Squad, go figure. I doubt they would turn against them either.

Not because he is innocent.

Of telling his supporters to respectfully and peacefully March to the Capitol?

It's people like you who make this possible.

No, it’s just many of us see what this charade is all about, a farce, nothing more. But I did enjoy the Dems dramatic Oscar winning performance.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

Trump said he could fired a gun and kill someone on New York’s Fifth Avenue, and his base would still support him.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

War criminals and dictators are frequently charged decades after them leaving office because the international community hold them accountable.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Trump fans won't change their minds. Remember that they are group of people who supported Trump despite his university scam which caused tens of millions of dollars in damages to the American public (yeah!), and used tens of thousands of dollars from his charity to pay business expenses (yeah!).

Telling a Trump fan that he sold you out is more like a badge of honor for them. It shows discipline and obedience.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

@Tokyyo-Engr

The impeachment trial is of great importance to condemn Trump's role in the insurrection. Obviously, anything to do with Congress and the Senate is not a court of law, so deciding on the impeachment trial itself was voted to go through. This occurs because of Trump is thought of as a traitor to democracy and for the good of the United States of America, as the voters have given control of the house and senate to the Democrats.

Trump is being put in trial for his actions concerning support for the insurrection and do not forget that this was mainly caused by his constant words saying the election was rigged, and inciting his followers to take action.

You can argue the violent nature was not caused by Trump, but I'd say, just add up his attitude toward the insurrectionists, and violence is as violence does...he knew that his supporters are gun toting angry people, and he hoped for their usual actions. I doubt anyone was actually surprised by the insurrection and the violence of Trump's people. He reveled in it, before care of his own VP. That's some messed up stuff.

His dissing the vote and ignoring the constitution, along with his long list of lies thru his presidency is supported by his ability to gaslight, and a huge part of being able to manipulate his base is his ability to hint and nuance, without true commitment nor clarity in his words.

But, his base does get what he is saying. In the case of the insurrection, before Jan. 6 and on the day, it is Trump who is the undisputed leader of their cause. Many of the insurrectionists say as much and many have said they were there because Trump asked them to be there. I realize you will say this is circumstantial evidence, but in my opinion, as a critical thinker, I can see the circumstantial evidence add up on reasoning Trump should have admitted defeat in the election in early November so not to incite his idiot followers.

If you believe Trump and his supporters were cheated out of the election as reasoning for not admitting defeat until Jan. 6, then I get your protest to the impeachment. But to me, it is quite obvious Trump was the main instigator and could have stopped the insurrection on our Capitol.

His actions, while still president, was unlawful and he should have been jailed. Just because his term has ended, in no thanks to his angry and ungracious exit, where he never congratulated Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, it doesn't excuse him. His sore loser attitude influenced his crazy supporters to be traitors to our constitution and democracy.

In an attempt to keep that from happening further in the future, the impeachment trials are necessary, and if you want to equate or compare Trump's dissing of the constitution to the legislature's impeaching Trump as things that are anti constitutional, I'd say the reason for the latter is the former, and I'm fine with the impeachment trials, and the impeachment interpretation of the constitution, if that is the basis of your beef.

It is needed to happen to show America is not enabling anyone, including a former president, who's manipulative passive aggressive 'smarts' is one of a cult leader, and he needs to not have power to influence our nation in any way, again.

So, yes, I'm 100% behind the impeachment trials against Trump.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@Tokyo-Engr

First of all I want to be clear that I find Trump to be repugnant and we likely fully agree he is not fit for President. The reason for my belief is that I agree with President Biden's ideal that it is critical to unify the U.S. citizens to the extent possible (however I am not quite sure this is possible at this point).

Don't worry, I fully understood and totally believe your dislike of Trump, you don't need to repeat in every post. But if you think Biden doesn't want Trump to be impeached and found guilty, I think you're sorely mistaken. The reason why he refuses to comment on the whole impeachment is because he is actually competent. He know impeachment is the Congress' duty and his office had nothing to do with it. So there's no reason for him to comment on it during the proceedings.

I would like to know what the other strong evidence is. I am not saying it does not exist - just bring it out and show it.

Well, if the actual written words from the actual rioters are not evidence enough for you, I honestly don't know what is.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Pro-Trump-rioters-sought-to-kill-Nancy-Pelosi-15941045.php

Plaskett said court documents in criminal cases that have been brought against alleged rioters and social media posts make clear that their intent was to kill Pelosi and then-Vice President Mike Pence (...). Plaskett pointed to a post from one rioter who wrote, “Crazy Nancy probably would have been torn into little pieces, but she was nowhere to be seen.”

She also cited an affidavit from an FBI agent stating that a group of insurrectionists “said that anyone they got their hands on they would have killed, including Nancy Pelosi.”

I also direct you to this article from this very site:

https://japantoday.com/category/world/update-1-five-charged-with-proud-boys-conspiracy-in-deadly-u.s.-capitol-attack

"We can have mace, tasers, or night sticks. QRF staged, armed, with our weapons, outside the city," she wrote, noting the armed team would be "outside DC with guns, await ... orders to enter DC under permission from Trump."

What other evidence would you like to see?

The implication of the Constitution is that someone needs to be in office to be impeached.

He was impeached when he was in office. You are confusing impeachement and the trial for the impeachment. The impeachment already happened, it's done. Otherwise you are advocating that a president can, on his last day in office, pilfer the Federal Reserve and steal all the paintings in the White House, and then live freely without any consequence for his crimes. That makes no sense at all.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Not to mention the Republicans know full well the Democrats supporters of last summer did far worse to the country,

The blind leading the blind

5 ( +7 / -2 )

They care, but they’re not dumb enough to fall for the Democrats hypocrisy of wanting to basically impeach a former President not because of a criminal purpose, but of a solely political purpose just to ensure he can’t run again, nothing more.

Impeachment trials are not criminal trials. The constitution is very clear about that.

Not to mention the Republicans know full well the Democrats supporters of last summer did far worse to the country, so why would they go along and convict Trump on a charge that their own supporters took part in between May and July of last year?

I’m not sure what you’re referring to when you say, “Democrats supporters of last summer did far worse to the country . . . “ People demonstrating is not far worse for the country than a president calling on his supporters to storm the Capitol building and disrupt the certification process of the electoral college.

The few riots instigated by fringe elements on the left and right - that Dems fully condemned - aren’t even worse than a president trying to retain power by encouraging his supporters to storm the Capitol building.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Bass:. Another day and a waste of tax payer time

Yep. The Repubs are too afraid to convict Trump because their base support him. Not because he is innocent.

It's people like you who make this possible.

14 ( +15 / -1 )

wanting to basically impeach a former President not because of a criminal purpose, but of a solely political purpose just to ensure he can’t run again, nothing more. 

You just gave unknowingly gave the definition and purpose of impeachment.

It is a political process to remove and then ensure a President can’t take office again. That IS what impeachment is for.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Toasted: Don’t get suckered in.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

The republicans instigated it, and they sit in the house without any care in the world only for their own selfish power grab by any means necassary. Sad to see this supposed beacon of democracy fall from its pearch.

They care, but they’re not dumb enough to fall for the Democrats hypocrisy of wanting to basically impeach a former President not because of a criminal purpose, but of a solely political purpose just to ensure he can’t run again, nothing more. Not to mention the Republicans know full well the Democrats supporters of last summer did far worse to the country, so why would they go along and convict Trump on a charge that their own supporters took part in between May and July of last year?

-14 ( +1 / -15 )

What could be pivotal to conviction is how Criminal incitement to riot, so to conduct insurrection is defined and so proven.

Impeachment trials are not criminal trials, so the rules you speak of do not apply.

So, the First Amendment, applying the Brandenburg Test. “emotionally charged rhetoric” must prove that Trump knowingly committed a premeditated act to further insurrection. That is a high bar.

It is a high bar, but inapplicable to the impeachment trial.

You should also get the test correct when using it as a benchmark:

The test determined that the government may prohibit speech advocating the use of force or crime if the speech satisfies both elements of the two-part test: 

The speech is “directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action,” AND

The speech is “likely to incite or produce such action.”

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/brandenburg_test

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Damn odd how the US goes hell for leather to bring international criminals and terrorists to justice, but hasn't the stomach to deal with the homegrown ones.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Tokyo-Engr, yes I agree, Trumps rhetoric was irresponsible, his behavior thought-out election reprehensible, and his failure to acknowledge defeat, then the refusal to co-operate in the safe transfer of power politically incendiary.

Trump, if Democratic accusations/charges are correct, should have summited a to Trail through the US Fed Court System.

If the charges are proven then Trump would be subject to Jurisprudence be held fully accountable by a jury of his peers.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

A president needs to be accountable for their actions and wrong doings. Trump started from the Nov 3 elections baiting his supporters which eventually lead to an armed storming of the congress and the loss of lives.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

@happy day,

The DC Swamp is merely trying to prevent Trump from running again, so they can continue their corrupt ways. Guess who Mitch McConnell’s wife does $$ millions in “business” with? Your large neighbor to the West that starts with “C”. DC is a cesspool.

Oh, you mean Elaine Chao, whose family is in shipping- yeah, Trump nominated her for Secretary of Transportation in 2016.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

@itsonlyrockandroll

So, the First Amendment, applying the Brandenburg Test. “emotionally charged rhetoric” must prove that Trump knowingly committed a premeditated act to further insurrection. That is a high bar.

I despise Trump but I agree with you fully on this. Additionally the actual transcript of Trump's words also include his call for a peaceful march to the Capital.

It is a very high bar and would be overturned by a court.

As much as I cannot stand Trump I believe the exercise of impeachment will in the end do far greater damage to the country than good.

Follow President Biden's example on this one.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

A short trial is all that would be needed to convict Trump for high crimes and misdemeanors IF the Republican senators were of honest character and serious about their oaths of office and their allegiance to the Constitution and democratic principles. But most Republicans have shown themselves not to be. So either the Dems are hopelessly incompetent and not serious about pursuing justice in a thorough manner with a long, protracted trial that would destroy Trump's standing among his millions of followers and the reputations of those in high office who supported and enabled him, OR they simply want to put on record for the history books the names of those senators who will enter the annals of infamy along with Benedict Arnold. One conclusion, at least, can be drawn from this theatrical display: the political class which constitutes America's ruling duopoly does not want to turn over the rock of democracy to expose the rot and corruption beneath.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Lots of evidence that Antifa and Capitol police led the intrusion.

Such as?

But I don’t think many here are interested in facts

What facts have been provided that anti-fascists led the intrusion?

7 ( +9 / -2 )

@Jsapc

First of all I want to be clear that I find Trump to be repugnant and we likely fully agree he is not fit for President. The reason for my belief is that I agree with President Biden's ideal that it is critical to unify the U.S. citizens to the extent possible (however I am not quite sure this is possible at this point).

The article you have posted uses the case of the lunatic Jacob Chansley who, as the Guardian article states,

“Chansley has spoken openly about his belief that he is an alien, a higher being, and he is here on Earth to ascend to another reality,” they wrote

We would certainly both agree this guy is way out on the fringe and is a complete nut. I also believe he is not representative of all of the idiots that stormed the Capital.

The article goes on to say

“Strong evidence, including Chansley’s own words and actions at the Capitol, supports that the intent of the Capitol rioters was to capture and assassinate elected officials in the United States government,” prosecutors wrote.

I would like to know what the other strong evidence is. I am not saying it does not exist - just bring it out and show it.

Finally this contradicts Trumps words (stated above) where he is telling people to peacefully march (Trump really said this, yes).

Regarding the constitutionality: Article II, Section 4 of the Constitution states: “The president, vice president and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.”

The implication of the Constitution is that someone needs to be in office to be impeached.

If they wish to continue with charges against Trump I believe that in lieu of impeachment the proper route to go (in my opinion) would be another charge such as inciting violence.

I believe the intent is to ensure Trump cannot hold office again. I believe that should be left to the American people to decide and I fully believe Trump would never win any other election again.

We are in agreement (I believe) Trump is not fit to be President and never was. On the other hand we still disagree on this issue.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Lots of evidence that Antifa and Capitol police led the intrusion

You just can’t provide links to any of it.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

Please provide a verbatim, word for word quote, where Trump specifically 'ordered' the attack on Capitol Hill.

Yes, because this is how reality works. If someone doesn’t say something explicitly, using the simplest possible language, then they aren’t really saying anything.

By your “logic,” when someone says, “I’m starving,” they don’t mean they are hungry.

The education gulf between conservatives and liberals on full display.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

I think if Donald Trump was facing a trail within the confides of US Fed Court Role and Structure

What could be pivotal to conviction is how Criminal incitement to riot, so to conduct insurrection is defined and so proven.

So, the First Amendment, applying the Brandenburg Test. “emotionally charged rhetoric” must prove that Trump knowingly committed a premeditated act to further insurrection. That is a high bar.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

At least the worse part of this show has come to its much needed end.

“the best...is yet...to come! (toot, sniff)”

8 ( +10 / -2 )

At least the worse part of this show has come to its much needed end.

Yeah it's great that Trump is no longer President.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

Lots of evidence that Antifa and Capitol police led the intrusion. But I don’t think many here are interested in facts. The DC Swamp is merely trying to prevent Trump from running again, so they can continue their corrupt ways. Guess who Mitch McConnell’s wife does $$$ millions in “business” with? Your large neighbor to the West that starts with “C”. DC is a cesspool.

-13 ( +2 / -15 )

The republicans instigated it, and they sit in the house without any care in the world only for their own selfish power grab by any means necassary. Sad to see this supposed beacon of democracy fall from its pearch.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

That's a deflection. What Trump actually said is not what's being addressed here.

So, what is being addressed? From afar all I can see is a rather unseemly Democrat Punch and Judy show.

-12 ( +2 / -14 )

We disagree. First of all it is unconstitutional.

Except it isn't. What makes it unconstitutional in your opinion? He was impeached when he was still president, the timing of the subsequent trial is irrelevant.

Is there evidence of this?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/15/capitol-rioters-planned-capture-kill-officials-say-prosecutors

Federal prosecutors have offered an ominous new assessment of last week’s siege of the US Capitol by Donald Trump’s supporters, saying in a court filing that rioters intended “to capture and assassinate elected officials”.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Another day and a waste of tax payer time this show was, but it was interesting to watch Dems act out, they all should get Academy Awards for their performance. At least the worse part of this show has come to its much needed end.

-14 ( +3 / -17 )

Concerned CitizenToday  09:15 am JST

"Democrats prosecuting Donald Trump's impeachment said Thursday the Capitol invaders believed they were acting on "the president's orders” "

Please provide a verbatim, word for word quote, where Trump specifically 'ordered' the attack on Capitol Hill.

That's a deflection. What Trump actually said is not what's being addressed here.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

@Jsapc

We disagree. First of all it is unconstitutional. However if they wish to continue to proceed with this, in spite of the constitutionality, I am not convinced there is a solid case.

The charges against Trump are levied on Page 4 of House Resolution 24.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/11/politics/house-articles-of-impeachment/index.html

His words "if you don't fight like hell you are not going to have a country anymore" are used as a basis for impeachment. Additionally his opinion (his opinion is 100% wrong in my own personal opinion) that the election was stolen from him is also used as a grounds for impeachment.

However during the same speech Trump also said, "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard." (Please see the link below for the full transcript of his speech - searh for the words)

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-01-13/transcript-of-trumps-speech-at-rally-before-us-capitol-riot

@Jsapc - you use the words

"with the full intent of kidnapping or murdering at least Mike Pence and any democrats they find"

Is there evidence of this?

As much as I despise Trump it is quite obvious he is finished however it is not obvious that he is totally responsible for the actions of the idiots at the Capital.

I respect Biden for ignoring the proceedings and it has been clearly stated he is not watching this as he has one hell of alot of work to do to much of which relates to the Pandemic which the narcissist Trump selfishly ignoreded completely during the last 3 months of his presidency. Those 3 months are a much bigger crime than his words on January 6.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

*Trump in his speech:** '***'fight like hell, or you won’t have a country anymore.''**

Rep. Madeleine Dean observed: “And so they came, draped in Trump’s flag, and used our flag, the American flag, to batter and to bludgeon.”

There's nothing confusing or debatable about it. Trump incited an attempted insurrection. People were killed.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Every Trump supporter is quick to shout out that "75 million Americans voted for Trump". But that popular vote count does not take into account the numbers of voters who no longer supported Trump between Nov 3 - Jan 6 watching his refusal to concede, consistent failure to present any evidence of this "Mass Fraud" after some 60 court cases, and most notably watching the attack on the Capitol.

I believe most intelligent Republicans who understand what Trump has done would no longer support him. Which then leaves the "Republican Party" with uneducated morons, wacko conspiracy believers, racists, gun toting militia-types, and domestic terrorists.

These spineless loser Republican Senators are destroying the Republican Party. This is no longer a "witch hunt". The witch has been clearly identified and needs to be burned at the stake if the party is to survive. We have already seen sufficient evidence that would draw a guilty judgement in a criminal court.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

The American people spoke, Biden won the election, and Trump is out.

I find this process completely contrary to President Biden's desire to unify the country.

So you're advocating that the previous president shouldn't face the consequences of his actions? Rioters and actual nazis invaded the Capitol building, looting and rampaging, with the full intent of kidnapping or murdering at least Mike Pence and any democrats they find, entirely spurred by the words of the president and several republican leaders, and we should just all...move on?

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Some Others that were present were doodling.

Yeah, looking at their papers or anywhere else apart from the video. I bet these people also look away whenever they come across a mirror. Yes, Lyin' Ted.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Repub logic:

Trump telling his supporters to "march down to the Capitol", "fight like hell", and "take our country back" isn't incitement...

Free Charles Manson - he didn't kill anyone - his supporters did....

Osama Bin-Laden isn't responsible - he didn't drive those planes into the towers...

Hitler never personally put anyone into gas chambers...he's innocent...

8 ( +12 / -4 )

I am a Democrat and voted for Biden and respect Biden's correct position (this is the job of the Senate). I am going to post something that many or likely most of those sharing my same view on Trump will disagree with.

Although I am not nor have I evern been a Trump supporter by any means I believe this trial is a waste of time as it is not constitutional (although U.S. politicians have long ago disregarded the Consitution).

Anderson Cooper of CNN used Rwandan genocide as an analogy to Trump and those idiots that foolishly stormed the capital. This is an example of how far this is being blown out of proportion.

It seems to me more people want to see completely destroyed.

The American people spoke, Biden won the election, and Trump is out.

I find this process completely contrary to President Biden's desire to unify the country. It is quite obvious Congress and the Senate do not share is vision.

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

Waiting for the Trump fans to come and say this is all just a waste of time and political theatre because the Senate won't convict. Just wanted to remind everyone that he won't be convicted not because he's innocent, but because the spineless GOP are afraid of his base.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Eleven republicans were absent for today’s hearing.

Some Others that were present were doodling.

Great to see the republicans taking this seriously.

(yes I know, everybody knew they wouldn’t)

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Still deflecting?

Not deflecting as it will be used by Trump's lawyers as it should be.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

We love you. You're very special

Was that written with a sharpie?

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Democrats prosecuting Donald Trump's impeachment said Thursday the Capitol invaders believed they were acting on "the president's orders” 

Please provide a verbatim, word for word quote, where Trump specifically 'ordered' the attack on Capitol Hill.

-12 ( +6 / -18 )

I was very concerned after hearing Rudy wasn’t going to be representing the ex President in his trial. But my fears were soon put to rest. Castor is just as incompetent and equally as entertaining.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

We know that Americans don't have the stomach to put an ex-president in prison even if he were found guilty.He won't be,because for the obvious reasons,including when you hold yourself up as the bastion of democracy,an attempted insurrection cannot get in the way of that.The trial is just purely for show and will end with nothing concluded.The only good thing is the dropkick is not on Twitter inciting like he would be if he could.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Stochastic terrorism

noun

the public demonization of a person or group resulting in the incitement of a violent act, which is statistically probable but whose specifics cannot be predicted.

It is very real thing. One that Trump was engaging in from the start during his campaign and continued through his time in office.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

But it rings hollow to me because you seemed totally fine as shop owners watched themselves being looted, robbed, and beaten halfway to death.

Oh, so one excuses the other?

Right-wing logic for sure.

-7 ( +9 / -16 )

The Dems are in danger of making another fine mess of this second impeachment if they try to rush the trial without calling or forcing witnesses close to Donald J. Trump to testify under subpoena because a video record of the riot (necessarily edited and therefore open to charges of bias) which many Republican senators have so ostentatiously refused to watch with due diligence and as demanded by their sworn oath of office, will not be taken as sufficient evidence to tie the 45th to the riot at the Capitol. Forcing the former president to testify in person would seal the deal because nobody can doubt that citizen Trump's testimony would be as compelling as unbelievable since his ingrained narcissism and mendacity could be relied upon to condemn him and prove him guilty merely with "the best words" uttered from his own mouth.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

And as a member of the public I hear your case, your tales of horror. But it rings hollow to me because

...because you obviously like fascism better than democracy. You're entitled to your opinions, but at least be honest about them.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

And as a member of the public I hear your case, your tales of horror. But it rings hollow to me

This case is not whether you feel they have double standards (and we all know how things would have worked out had BLM tried to storm the Capitol), but on the specific charges of impeachment brought against Trump.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Trump incited his thugs to storm the congress, armed including explosives. Trump did nothing to stop it. Normally in a single day he would make more than 180 tweets. On Jan 6, he tweeted just six times.

Jacob 'Jake' Angeli, also known as the 'QAnon Shaman', arrested.

Angeli was reportedly hanging out for Trump to pardon him during his final days in office, and when it didn't happen he said he felt "duped".

 "felt like he was betrayed by the President".

has offered to testify against Donald Trump

9 ( +17 / -8 )

Whether or not 44 invertebrate Eunichs find their spines and convict him or not, everyone with cognitive ability knows what some of us have known for years: Trump is a narcissistic sociopath. He doesn’t care about anyone, especially his uneducated supporters.

As such, there is nothing he won’t lead them to do including inciting them to insurrection against a co-equal branch of government. And when it fails, (by a combination of bravery, luck and the sheer incompetence of his followers), shrug his shoulders, mug for the camera, and say “What? Me?”

He’s guilty as hell. He did it. We all saw it. Process arguments are a fig lead to avoid telling his shrinking base that he is guilty. It’s laughable and disgusting at the same time.

6 ( +13 / -7 )

Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, who was among those leading the effort to challenge the Electoral College tally, said, “The president’s rhetoric is at times overheated, but this is not a referendum on whether you agree with everything the president says or tweets.”

Correct, it is a referendum on whether ANYBODY did and acted because of his words. Some people did.

9 ( +16 / -7 )

“They truly believed that the whole intrusion was at the president’s orders,”

The far right’s glossary of terms includes language that means different things to them than most others. Trump and his media understand this. Look at how frequently they sprinkle ‘the media’, ‘cancel culture’, ‘rigged/fixed/stolen’, ‘experts’, ‘government overreach’, ’the deep state’ among others in their speeches and reporting. 

Trump and his media are dismissive of their audience made up largely of the alienated and angry, many poorly educated. Trump’s a huckster who’s got rich marketing dreck. Trump knows his base won’t read up on what he’s saying, that they’ll just parrot his words. 

Trump knows when he’s trying to reach his base he can say ‘march peacefully’ and ‘fight like hell’ and that most of his followers will only hear the latter.

7 ( +14 / -7 )

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites