China extends military exercises around Taiwan

Isn't that what Russia said before they invaded Ukraine?

Yep. And plenty on here were endlessly parroting the Russian line that "they'd never invade Ukraine...it's all evil Western propoganda."

RiskyMosaic

Isn't that what Russia said before they invaded Ukraine?"

I am not sure what you believe "Russia said", but the fact is that Russia said consistently for years that the Minsk agreements must be followed and that Nato expansion into Ukraine is unacceptable. It was the Zelenski regime and its foreign supporters that did not listen.

As for Taiwan, the current brouhaha around Taiwan proper is just for show. However, you can not rule out that Xi will annex some of the small Taiwanese islands close to China that can not be defended.

This is not a Ukraine thread but Russia ABSOLUTELY said "It's just exercises. we have no designs on Ukraine" right up until they did.

They lied and the possibility is not high, but no zero either, that the PRC is lying as well.

Xi playing his military theater for all he can get....

Poor economy, real estate bankruptcies, millions locked down....have to keep the Taiwan issue front and center before that big party congress meeting...

He's already probably asked Biden to send VP Harris to Taiwan next week so he can keep the exercises going and further bluster, deflect, and distract...

Nemo

They lied

So Baker did not lie when he promised to Gorbachev that Nato "would not expand 1 m" east after the breakup of the Warsaw countries?

Zelenski did not lie when he signed the Minsk agreement and then continued to violate it for 7 years nonstop?

Your standards seem quite one-sided. Afaic, you reap what you sow.

Again, as for Taiwan, the comparison is not valid. Taiwan is not asking to have Nato troops stationed on its territory and get nuclear arms (yep, Zelenski said that too...)

The comparison of Russia to Ukraine, and China to Taiwan is very valid. Both want to take over the smaller country and any reasons they give are basically just excuses to justify what they simply want to do. The similarity is exactly why the two have been discussed together among the G7, NATO, ASEAN, just about every forum one can think of.

This is te 21st century. We don't need large nations invading smaller ones for the purpose of adding them to their territory.

With China using the Pelosi visit as an excuse to escalate the situation even higher, through drills surrounding all of Taiwan at once, ending recogntion of the Taiwan/China Median Line, terminatuon communication and cooperation with the US, China has made it's true bellicose nature open for all to see.

Taiwan like Tibet are both distinct cultures that have no no interest in joining the CCP model. If you have to use force re education camps then you are nothing more than a disfuncional wife beater. And deserve ridicule and derision.

I am not sure what you believe "Russia said", but the fact is that Russia said consistently for years that the Minsk agreements must be followed and that Nato expansion into Ukraine is unacceptable. 

Yeah, but they said even more recently repeatedly and openly that they wouldn’t invade Ukraine. Then they did in fact invade Ukraine.

So yeah but no but yeah.

When talking about Ukraine and Taiwan everyone suddenly has amnesia about Iraq, Vietnam, Oman, Gaza, Nicaragua, the covert coup d'etat in Iran, etc.

No.

They are talking about Ukraine and Taiwan.

Much like if I ask you “How was your lunch?” You don’t tell me about every meal you’ve eaten for the past 60 years.

Except Taiwan is literally the same Han culture as most of China.

Try telling the vast majority of Taiwanese that they are culturally the same as China. Let us know how that goes.

Taiwan is NOT China. Never will be.

So Baker did not lie when he promised to Gorbachev that Nato "would not expand 1 m" east after the breakup of the Warsaw countries?

This is what you are going with? Western Democracies wanting to join a defensive organization (Gee I wonder why? What could they possibly need protection from? Let's see...) = Russia lying about launching an invasion of a sovereign country on a BS excuse of "De-Nazification"?

Yeah, that isn't the same thing at all.

And Taiwan and China are so similar that they speak different languages and one of them enjoys democracy and has never been ruled by the CCP.

Other than that, you can hardly tell them apart.

If you are going down the WMD rabbit hole, I happen to be pretty pissed about that too. I think most of us are. The difference is that some of us are able to separate the two and no fall to the intellectually lazy moral equivalence argument of "well, we made a mistake, so nobody can ever be held to account for bad behavior ever."

And not for nothing, Saddam and Ukarine/Taiwan? Not in the same orbit or solar system.

Nemo

before it gets memory holed:

* “not only for the Soviet Union but for other European countries as well it is important to have guarantees that if the United States keeps its presence in Germany within the framework of NATO, not an inch of NATO’s present military jurisdiction will spread in an eastern direction.” (James Baker)*

Can you remind us what happened subsequently? What was that about lying?

How is the region and US going to respond?

Government of China feels emboldened.

This is the fork in the road.

Do nothing and Xi Jinping could take that action as ineptitude, trepidation to stand up and fight.

Time is up.

The failure of Xi Jinping to halt his war games Sunday, was the day of reckoning.

OssanAmerica

Nope. Everyone knows that US military intervention has not been for the purpose of annexing and making another country part of the US. Only you don't see the difference.

The various US military interventions have been and are about regime change. Very much like Putins special military action in Ukraine. With the difference that the US interventions have consistently been far away from home and NOT in response to an existential threat at its borders, while the Ukraine intervention is.

I agree that Taiwan is a different situation. The consistent claim of the Xi regime is complete unification.

WIIB:

Before it gets memory-holed:

Russia guaranteed the security of Ukraine INCLUDING Crimea and the Eastern regions because they belong to Ukraine. In exchange, Ukraine gave up the world’s 3rd largest nuclear arsenal (bet they wish they hadn’t done that about now.)

And what do you want to bet that the citizens of the sovereign democracies of NATO who joined post-97 are thinking about now?

”Thank God we joined NATO!” THAT’s what they’re thinking.

I bet every Ukrainian wishes they had.

@Nemo

If you are going down the WMD rabbit hole, I happen to be pretty pissed about that too. I think most of us are. The difference is that some of us are able to separate the two and no fall to the intellectually lazy moral equivalence argument of "well, we made a mistake, so nobody can ever be held to account for bad behavior ever."

And not for nothing, Saddam and Ukarine/Taiwan? Not in the same orbit or solar system.

The point is, the US has equal responsibility for building up the powder keg situation in the Ukraine, and needs to be held accountable for that...but interestingly enough when people post the relevant information here it often ends up getting deleted.

And yes it is exactly on the same level, all about the same geopolitics, if you haven't worked it out.

“ A man uses a magnifying glass to read a newspaper headline reporting on Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) conducting military exercises, at a stand in Beijing. “

… no money to buy some glasses? … and here I was thinking the CCP was “the best thing that ever happened to China”.

Well done Pooh bear, when your actions make you look like a spoiled child denied a sweet, what is the sensible thing to do? Oh yes keep doing it, of course.

Sadly I suspect Pooh has reached the point where any external opinion has ceased to be a consideration, only internal Chinese factors now matter so he will plough on because any other course will see him lose power with probable lethal consequences for him.

@Nemo

...and obviously the US (i.e. Pelosi) has equal accountability for building up the powder keg situation in Taiwan, and if you can't acknowledge that, you are really blind to what has been going on there since the US installed their boy Chiang K'ai-shek after Mao thrashed him despite all the US hardware he had...it's true Taiwan is not not originally Han Chinese, but after Chiang got there with his Shanghai mafia buddies they took over and destroyed the indigenous people's culture and way of life, all so the US would have a base from which to incite and provoke.

China lied about the "exercises" already because they said it would end Sunday.

This is a blockade to international shipping. It's time for the G7 to sanction China.

I get the feeling Russia supporters wouldn't stop me from bearing their wives if I gave them a strong warning not to get involved beforehand.

It sure looks like China has already started it's invasion.

Maybe China was unable to complete the exercise in the time frame because of the hot weather. They need to fire the commander for failing to do it on time.

China is only proving all the detractors to be right on the money. China is evil, led by the evil Jinping Xi. Throw a tantrum because America and Taiwan will not listen to Jinping's commands. How awful that nasty countries fail to follow Chinese orders. Don't they realise how powerful China is? All must fall into line and do nothing to offend Jinping. When China gives an order it expects all countries to tremble and do as they have been told.

Sorry China, but your fantasy means nothing to the worlds people. We do not care what you demand. But should you attack anyone, you will see the depths of the worlds displeasure through trade embargoes, sanctions and retaliation in kind.

Pelosi got her PR, now it's time for the Taiwanese people to pay for her recklessness.

Disclaimer: Taiwan is not part of China, Xi is a totalitarian dictator, before the baseless accusations by warmongers start pouring.