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China suffers legal blow in South China Sea; U.S. urges caution

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Actually this is a political verdict,especially since the PCA have no legal basis to decide on the Nine Dash Line. This is because this can only be a Class Action lawsuit by All the affected parties, namely Taiwan, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, anybody adjacent to the South China Sea.

By allowing PH lawsuit against the Nine Dash Line to go forward, the PCA judges effectively Damage their own institution. This is not a loss for China, but a loss for the reputation of the PCA institution. They cannot explain why they allow the Nine Dash Line lawsuit to go forward while they throw out about half of the PH initial 15 charges against China. Smells like an intense arm twisting to get them to take up the case And to add insult to injury, they never even mention anything against the Squatters in the Spratlys, namely Vietnam, occupying half, PH about as much, and Malaysia as well. Does any fair minded people think this verdict against China is a fair and just verdict? This is a day of infamy in maritime law, forever discrediting the PCA institution!

-24 ( +1 / -25 )

What is the point of this? What is the enforcement mechanism? There is none. I'm not defending China, I just don't see how this is a "legal blow" or how it changes the status quo at all. China will do what is best for China, regardless of what anyone else says or wants.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

with or without the rule its already obvious, china trying to sea grab. duh

9 ( +9 / -0 )

“It will certainly undermine and weaken the motivation of states to engage in negotiations and consultations for solving their disputes,” Cui said. “It will certainly intensify conflict and even confrontation.”

This is typical Chinese BS on the subject. The Philippines had tried to negotiate bilaterally with China for years on the issue before turning to the PCA after realizing they were up against a brick wall and a victim of bullying. But what should one expect from a country whose founder believed that ""Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." ? Things are going to get dicey now.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

What is the point of this? What is the enforcement mechanism? There is none. I'm not defending China, I just don't see how this is a "legal blow" or how it changes the status quo at all.

Well, until now it's mostly been a 'he said' 'she said' type of deal. China says it's theirs, the Philippines says it's theirs. Now there is a weighing in on the matter. It probably won't be enough by itself, but add a few more challenges here and there, and it isolates China more and more in their denials of what the rest of the world says.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Let the Pacific arms race begin. In earnest.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

China does not care...there is only one thing that will stop them and nobody really wants that except for the Chinese...

3 ( +4 / -1 )

China seems to have a problem with the concept of "law".

Just like any criminal.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

The ruling states that China has no right to exclusive economic zones around its artificial islands. The same would apply to every other country in the region. China will have to share the waters and cannot expect to take everything for themselves.

The nine-dash line has no legal basis. The Chinese have signed treaties that limit exclusive economic zones to 200 nautical miles from the coast. If the Chinese now say that those treaties are invalid then other countries are free to draw their own lines right up to the Chinese mainland coast and claim those areas as being their own territory "since ancient times".

The unelected Chinese dictatorship cannot have it both ways, although they will certainly try. A bit of nationalistic rhetoric always helps to take the people's minds off of their corrupt leaders.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

A binding decision by a supranational body of which China is a signed-up member. And yet, China has decided to pretend it didn't happen. What maturity.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I really don't think the U.S. is very worried about China.All propaganda.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@Scrote

The Chinese complaint basically boiled down to the dishonest uneven interpretation of the law. Can you explain why PCA is silent on the squatters from VN, PH, Malaysia sitting on actual islands and converting some reefs to islands way before China, while the Chinese have to spend billions to convert them to artificial islands? What kind of court make judgement without looking at the Big Picture? You don't need to be Chinese but you will surely be offended when the other fella is given a free pass to grab the Spratlys and the court say nothing about it.

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

China grows economically and in strength daily. The worlds consumers buying Chinese products support China's escalating arrogance.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

The fact that other countries have to ask China to refrain from escalating confrontational behavior because of a court ruling is revealing.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@OssanAmerica "The Philippines had tried to negotiate bilaterally with China for years on the issue before turning to the PCA after realizing they were up against a brick wall and a victim of bullying."

I can tell you US have a stealth fingerprint in all of this but of course one cannot prove it definitively. It can only be infered.

First Aquino went to China in April 2012 and came back empty handed. Why is this so? It is possible China is a tough negotiator and refuse to give PH Scarborough Shoal for example. On the other hand, it is very plausible US torpedo PH/China deal. The reason is very simple: Hillary who know FM Alberto Rosario could have arm twisted Aquino a Chinoy to Not accept the PH-China settlement. Aquino have to be seen as nationalist, so he cannot be seen as selling out to China due to his skin, thus his hard stance.

The reason is US fear the Chinese settlement with PH open the way for the Chinese to deny US military presence in PH. One can see the aftermath with US 'MacArthur 'I Shall Return' after US was kicked out of Subic in early nineties '. in the form of Obama getting PH to sign EDCA so US now have bases in PH to monitor Chinese submarines.

US dearly love to have PH bases to help prevent or track Chinese subs heading towards Hawaii, West Coast US via the Luzon Strait/Bashi Channel. This is what it is all about. Same with Taiwan Strait, Miyako Strait off Okinawa and Oh Yes, the current Henoko Oura Bay sub hideout is for precisely the same reason. US Need 'allies' like PH, Taiwan, Japan to be Gatekeepers to track Chinese subs, much like what she is doing now, furiously enlisting India to help track Chinese subs in the Indian Ocean heading towards US East Coast. It will be Game Over for Pivot To Asia if more Chinese subs show up off US, like the Russian Akula sub showed up in Gulf of Mexico about three years ago.

-12 ( +1 / -13 )

@Scrote

The big picture is that no one has exclusive rights to these regions. While this case was aimed at China (since the claims it was settling was against China), the wording makes it clear that it does not only apply to that nation. Only nationalist apologists would try to claim this is an exclusive ruling for China.

“It will certainly undermine and weaken the motivation of states to engage in negotiations and consultations for solving their disputes,”

This is only the case for nations that know their claims in a dispute is actually not legitimate.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@Fre Okin : So the court is biased against China? And all those Southeast Asian countries are ganging up on China? And the US is dictating China policy to those countries? Do you realize how silly that sounds to everyone outside of China?

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Fre OkinJul. 13, 2016 - 11:12AM JST @OssanAmerica "The Philippines had tried to negotiate bilaterally with China for years on the issue before turning to the PCA after realizing they were up against a brick wall and a victim of bullying." I can tell you US have a stealth fingerprint in all of this but of course one cannot prove it definitively. It can only be infered.

Yes Fre Okin, it's all a U.S. conspiracy just like the Chinese state controlled news sources say. Fact is that China now has a choice, either become a law abiding member of the international community or become a rogue state. As long as you keep parroting Chinese state propaganda drunk on hyper nationalism, the former is unlikely to happen. The ball is in China's court.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Simply looking at a map indicates China's claims are absurd.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Does anyone here really believes that China cares for the outcome of any legal proceedings?

Whom are we trying to fool here? Ourselves?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

They cannot explain why they allow the Nine Dash Line lawsuit to go forward while they throw out about half of the PH initial 15 charges against China.

It is a simple matter of the 9-dash-line claim, covering both islands and entire swathes of ocean is far beyond what any nation is allowed to claim for itself under contemporary international law. As for the ownership of particular islands, they have decided they have no jurisdiction.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

you can exit the legal framework and hold your ridiculous claim, or you honour it as a member. Not both

someone explain this simple logic to the chinese

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Does anyone here really believes that China cares for the outcome of any legal proceedings?>

Yes, I believe that despite their dismissal of the ruling this will have quite a big impact on their approach to the area. China needs to be wary of anything that could hurt their economy or prestige, as that could lead to domestic dissatisfaction with the party, which is what they fear the most. This turn of events does not help them at all.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

This precedent will just aid China's enemies to quit dialogue and militarily force China into a corner....

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Charade? ◾There were no rulings on sovereignty over land territory or delimiting any national boundaries.

It seems this is primarily a freedom of navigation ruling and the concomitant delineation of the Philippines EEZ.

Designed to shock and awe in the onset but award a consolation price at the end.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

China grows economically and in strength daily. The worlds consumers buying Chinese products support China's escalating arrogance.

Yup. Should be a lot more pressure on Western countries to source manufactured imports from S.E Asia, especially those countries which will eventually enjoy a lot sea based trade with India. Need to build those countries up.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I suspect that at least some hardliners in the Chinese Communist Party are now searching for their own Marco Polo Bridge-like incident at sea (either East China or South China, or hell maybe both) to serve as a pretext for taking bigger action the way Japan did against China in July 1937 (the time of the original Marco Polo Bridge incident). Not a great situation, to say the least.

People should be aware of how dangerous the current situation is with respect to China. No one-party authoritarian regime has survived beyond the "age" of 71 or 74, depending on how you count the years in power of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (that started in either 1917 with the Bolshevik Revolution or 1922, when the civil war ended, and lasted until 1991). The longest-lasting non-communist one-party reign was that of the PRI in Mexico from 1929 to 2000.

We're in year 67 of the CCP's rule in China. If it survives to celebrate 75 years of nonstop rule in October 2024, that will be a milestone without precedent in modern history. But I'm sure the Chinese communists are aware of how great the odds are against them staying in power for even 8 more years--unless they get that Marco Polo Bridge-type incident at sea, perhaps.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

With this, China has lost the moral and legal high ground in the UN. It cannot call on other countries, especially those who abide by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), to gain support in the UN.

It also means they cannot use UNCLOS against Japan in the Senkaku Islands because if they are to use it, they are going to have to abide by it. And China certainly cannot use it against the US in their artificial islands vs. freedom of navigation in the seas - both of which are under the purview of UNCLOS. (In order to gain sovereignty on islands, they have to cite UNCLOS.)

What's interesting is how China responded immediately after the ruling was announced: by showing videos of them using their military arms. Now who's being belligerent? That's far from someone looking to use diplomacy on the issue.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Now let's see if the respect the ruling....

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I doubt that the judges themselves had seen the islands and reefs themselves first hand.

Them sayin Itu Aba/Taiping island is a mere rock makes them all liars and degrades their credibility and thus making their office a mere kangaroo court.

If that is their judgement then Kalayaan island must also be a rock !

This is certainly a mockery of justice even by Japanese standards!

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

China relies upon international trade,which is based on all players abiding by international law. To expect the world to be it's trade customer while taking this position towards a binding PAC ruling is having your cake and eat it too. If China doesn't want to respect the ruling, then they can not be trusted to adhere to the rules of trade either, The hawks in the CCP, the PLA hardliners, with all the Chinese people both in and out of China who have been swept up in this hyper-nationalism (a couple of whom who post here) have brought China to a crucial point of having to decide China's future. China is now trying to place blame on the PI. the US, even Japan to turn public anger away from the CCP. But the reality is that they have set themselves up for a confrontation with the world.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

But I'm sure the Chinese communists are aware of how great the odds are against them staying in power for even 8 more years

They will be in power for a very long time. There are no serious threats to the CCP, internally or externally, despite the odd protest or minor economic setback.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I would suggest the honorable judges should see for themselves Taiping /Itu Aba island before sayin it's a rock.

Then they can either reverse their statement to protect the honor and integrity of the court , or commit hara kiri !

These people are liars and not qualified for the job . They are grossly abusing their power.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

China is the only one grossly abusing their power.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Fact is that China now has a choice, either become a law abiding member of the international community or become a rogue state.

Let's be for real here. It's naive to think that anyone, other than the JT crowd, is going to consider China as a rogue state.

One the Chinese have veto power on the security council and would use it if any sanctions or actions were taken against it, next no one is going to do anything other than talk, and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk again.

China is a much a "rogue" state as the US is, people just dont want to accept the reality.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Chinese make their mind and who is going to change this....

0 ( +1 / -1 )

China will not respect anyone!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

If these judges are grossly making a big mistake on a very simple matter in their sayin Taiping island is a rock then how can we give them our confidence to handle the very big and complex historical , political and sovereignty issues and the corresponding law and jurisprudence ?

How can we entrust them to give a final decision in a Malvinas/Falkland , war and peace scenario when they erred tremendously even in their judgement of small Taiping island?

It is the honorable court that suffered a severe blow to their neutrality and credibility as a result of this obvious plain incompetence of the judges .

Maybe they should see with their very own eyes Taiping island and Okinitorishima atoll by actually sailin there and correct themselves for their own sake cause they owe it to the whole world and the court they are serving.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

"MASSWIPEJUL. 13, 2016 - 05:47PM JST"

You are assuming they were still communist, the truth is they haven't been for a LONG time. they are a country run by bureaucratic capitalists, or in their own words, 'red capitalists'.

so the notion you said "No one-party authoritarian regime has survived beyond the "age" of 71 or 74", still stands, because they've killed the communism idea themselves. We are not dealing with Soviet union or Mao's China, we are dealing with a Nazi Germany like regime, i.e. a frankenstein of capitalism, ultra nationalism, 'master race' ...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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