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Chinese hospitals 'extremely busy' as COVID spreads unchecked

31 Comments
By Martin Quin Pollard

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31 Comments

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Asked about the travel requirements imposed by Japan and India, a spokesman for China's foreign ministry said on Tuesday "COVID measures should be scientific, moderate and should not affect the normal flow of individuals".

And people wonder why we can't believe a thing that comes out of the PRC. I fell off my chair with laughter reading this comment.

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China's $17 trillion economy is expected to suffer a slowdown in factory output and domestic consumption as workers and shoppers fall ill.

But a total lockdown of Shanghai is not going to have this effect??? What a silly comment

They can't bash China enough...bashed them for the lockdowns and zero tolerance then bashed them for the opening!

Yet today in the park in Tokyo 99% of people including very young children wearing masks still ...

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

Sanji.....what park were you in? 99% is a nice specific number conforming to your bias.

I wandered from Shibuya back up to Shinjuku and there were loads of maskless people walking around; mostly younger people but quite a few oyaji. Most of the unmasked were in groups which seems to go against the "opposites attract" paradigm.

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Keep the doors closed to China until they get their numbers down.

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Covid is unchecked in japan also. Only people who don’t have any symptoms can get covid test. People with symptoms cannot get a covid test in japan

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Pushing for Zero Covid wasn't rational. Just like the rest of the world China should have gone for Pfizer and relax during the delta days. Hoping their vaccines to an extent offer some protection. Given how big China is I am a bit worried a lot of people might die if this goes haywire.

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Best wishes to the Chinese people. This pandemic has caused a lot of suffering.

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Really embarrassing for China and its cosmeticians... For example, those in Hong Kong had been lauding Xi's Zero Covid Policy as the best, most humane in the world. Now they have to eat their own stinking foot. Same for the China trolls here and elsewhere. Most important for Japan: this time keep the virus from China out. Germany offered 100 m BTN shots to China free and China refused. Great Leader loves his people.

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So are they here, where hospitals cannot even reach half the people who call for them because they are overloaded, and hospitals run on business hours. I mean, they reject people here at so many hospitals the patient dies (even if it's a pregnant woman!) in NORMAL times, they've stopped reporting how many cases they are getting now. So what's the difference?

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So, just as I don't understand why Japan has gone through 8 COVID waves throughout the entire face-diaper-wearing era, I don't get why China is having such an explosion of cases.

Experts from outside of the Chinese government mention two primary reasons, a low vaccination rate overall but especially among the elderly and the use of a less effective weakened live virus vaccine rather than the much more effective mRNA vaccines used in the west, They also add that due to all the lockdowns the Chinese have not had the several waves of the virus sweep through their population like most western nations have building up immunity with each wave on top of the immunity from vaccines and boosters common in the west.

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90% of the population is fully vaccinated with a "safe and effective" vaccine.

How can the virus spread "unchecked" when 90% of of the people are protected by an "effective" vaccine?

Outside experts will tell you that government statistic is very far from true. The vaccination rate among China's elderly is particularly low. The Chinese have not yet offered any kind of booster. I have already had two boosters and will probably have one every year along with my flu shot. Most vaccinations in China were given early in the pandemic, two years ago, giver or take, and have long ago lost their effect. They will also tell you that the weakened live virus vaccine used in China is not very effective. The mRNA vaccines common in the west are far more effective plus there are annual boosters available in the west where China has nothing.

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Seriously, apart from expat-Chinese... who cares about what goes on in CCP Land ?

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Seriously, apart from expat-Chinese... who cares about what goes on in CCP Land ?

Apparently Western media cares alot,that's why you see China Covid related topic on Western media every day.

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They can't bash China enough...bashed them for the lockdowns and zero tolerance then bashed them for the opening!

But the criticism is completely valid, first for insisting on a costly but unsustainable and unnecessary measures instead of focusing on science based interventions, and now for stopping without actually preparing to prevent unnecessary deaths. Other countries have achieved control of the pandemic precisely by immunizing and improving their health services and they have avoided the problems the Chinese are having.

90% of the population is fully vaccinated with a "safe and effective" vaccine.

No, they are not, as repeatedly pointed to you, something that you make no effort to refute which means you are repeating a claim you have already accepted is false.

Seriously, apart from expat-Chinese... who cares about what goes on in CCP Land ?

The world does, after all the pandemic started precisely because the Chinese government disobeyed measures meant to control and limit outbreaks, widespread transmission on an deficiently immunized population could mean a new variant appearing that could prolong the pandemic a few years more.

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You can't hide from a pandemic. You have to go through the initial waves and add the bug to the long list we already have. People will die, as they die with seasonal flu and other viruses.

Flu puts a strain on most medical services. Friday nights put a strain on the understaffed and underfunded NHS services in the UK.

Governments have had years to expand care services. If they are overwhelmed anywhere now, it is not a disease issue but a failure of government.

If there is another strain, border blocks will not work any more than they did for the last three years. It will spread globally. The pattern so far has been for weaker strains, so the media should behave responsibly. Spreading hysteria will just see Asians of all nations getting attacked by racist nutters.

TL;DR: Everyone calm down.

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If the virus is really spreading then it is mimicking what the virus is doing in "well-vaccinated" countries.

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If the virus is really spreading then it is mimicking what the virus is doing in "well-vaccinated" countries.

No it is not, because well vaccinated countries do not have these kind of huge hospitalization and deaths, even if they have local transmission. That is the purpose of vaccines, to reduce the risk from infection

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No it is not, because well vaccinated countries do not have these kind of huge hospitalization and deaths, even if they have local transmission. That is the purpose of vaccines, to reduce the risk from infection

Yes it is unless you deny Japan is well-vaccinated.

And all this after having been told the well-documented theme that the vaccines would stop transmission.

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The mRNA vaccines common in the west are far more effective ...

The Chinese vaccines appear to be less effective, but they are also much safer. Plus, their vaccine targets multiple SARSCoV2 proteins, not just the highly mutating spike protein. They should stick with what the have.

...plus there are annual boosters available in the west where China has nothing.

Are you sure? Are you saying that once vaccinated, they can't get future doses?

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Yes it is unless you deny Japan is well-vaccinated.

And it the situation with covid is completely different, thus refuting your claim that the situation in China is "mimicking" well vaccinated countries, even if the focus in Japan switched from preventing infections the rate of fatalities and heavy complications is very much reduced even in a population consisted in a high percentage by people with well described vulnearability to the infection.

And all this after having been told the well-documented theme that the vaccines would stop transmission

Since that is being said by well known antivaxxice disinformation sites then that should make it clear why they are not sources that you should be listening to, the experts clearly warned from the beginning (before vaccines were developed) that variants would make previous immunity of every type much less effective.

The Chinese vaccines appear to be less effective, but they are also much safer

There is no evidence to support this claim, and evidence that contradict it completely, expressing proteins not involved in neutralization can be useless or even affect negatively the safety of a vaccine, without actual data that shows those non-neutralizing antibodies are correlated with better immune activity your claim is just imagined. The epidemiological data from other countries where the vaccine has been used clearly shows the protection offered by it is severely impaired, even against the original strains, much more against the current variants.

The scientific consensus is that the Chinese vaccine is subpar and does not reduce the risks from infection as well as the best available

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There is no evidence to support this claim, and evidence that contradict it completely, expressing proteins not involved in neutralization can be useless or even affect negatively the safety of a vaccine, without actual data that shows those non-neutralizing antibodies are correlated with better immune activity your claim is just imagined.

That is basic immunology. It is extremely over simplistic to assume that only neutralizing antibodies are important. And I know that you are aware of this, based on something you posted early in the pandemic. So why pretend nonneutralizing antibodies are not only irrelevant, but that they have a negative effect?

The Chinese vaccine, being more a traditional vaccine, does not have the same high rate of serious adverse effects as the mRNA lipid nanoparticle injections.

And since the Chinese vaccine targets multiple proteins, it is expected to not contribute as much to the appearance of variants as the mRNA injections and be less affected by the emergence of variants.

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They are flip flopping and saying Japan and the USA are no longer “well vaccinated” now that the story is changing.

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Will never happen. Will just be another “new variant” that the 8th booster doesn’t work for that will require the 9th.

“we never said your 8th booster would work against thisssss variant.”

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Isnt it wild that someday soon double vaccinated with 4 or 5 boosters will be considered “not fully vaccinated”?

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That is basic immunology

That is an excuse, not an argument. For many infections non-neutralizing antibodies are much worse than nothing, so if you want to claim they are useful against covid you first need to present evidence of this, without that evidence then anybody saying those antibodies put in risk the life of the patient is as likely to be right.

The Chinese vaccine, being more a traditional vaccine, does not have the same high rate of serious adverse effects as the mRNA lipid nanoparticle injections.

Even if that is true (which is not possible without studies to prove it) the very low efficacy still means they fail to prevent as much of the risks of the best available vaccines, which still means they are not as safe, because that comes mostly from their efficacy (since serious side effects from the vaccines are a tiny fraction of the much more important problems from the infection they prevent).

And since the Chinese vaccine targets multiple proteins, it is expected to not contribute as much to the appearance of variants as the mRNA injections and be less affected by the emergence of variants.

That is worse than baseless, it is actually something proved as wrong, with their efficacy being reported decreasing much more than other vaccines against the variants already appearing.

https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/news/covid-omicron-sinovac-children/

Isnt it wild that someday soon double vaccinated with 4 or 5 boosters will be considered “not fully vaccinated”?

Only for people that willfully ignore what vaccines are meant to do and how immunity is evaluated. For people in high risk jobs (like veterinarians and some hunters) there is a need for endless amount of boosters because immunity against rabies is not long lasting so periodic boosting becomes necessary.

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That is basic immunology. It is extremely over simplistic to assume that only neutralizing antibodies are important.

....so if you want to claim they are useful against covid you first need to present evidence of this,

If you want to claim non neutralizing antibodies are not useful against covid you need to completely ignore the role of the rest of the immune system (e.g., T cells); i.e., basic immunology.

And as I said, you acknowledged this back in 2020, so what happened?

And since the Chinese vaccine targets multiple proteins, it is expected to not contribute as much to the appearance of variants as the mRNA injections and be less affected by the emergence of variants.

That is worse than baseless, it is actually something proved as wrong, with their efficacy being reported decreasing much more than other vaccines against the variants already appearing.

The current immune escape variants were predicted. And if one understands the selection pressure leading to their emergence, one should realize that this would not happen with vaccines that target multiple proteins, as this would require all (or at least most) of the viral proteins to mutate (while remaining viable).

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If you want to claim non neutralizing antibodies are not useful against covid you need to completely ignore the role of the rest of the immune system (e.g., T cells); i.e., basic immunology.

That is false, many different kinds of infections course with worthless non-neutralizing antibodies, there is nothing that makes them useful if present. That would be a false assumption from your part.

And as I said, you acknowledged this back in 2020, so what happened?

Acknowledge what? that this could be the case? that is completely different from saying this MUST be the case as you do, specially with the very clear epidemiological evidence that the Chinese vaccine is of subpar efficacy, which completely contradicts your personal belief on non-neutralizing antibodies.

You made the claim these antibodies must be useful, then you have to support that claim with evidence, my claim is that there is no such evidence and contrary epidemiological data that refutes this.

The current immune escape variants were predicted. And if one understands the selection pressure leading to their emergence, one should realize that this would not happen with vaccines that target multiple proteins,

No, that is another assumption of yours that can be demonstrated as false, selective pressure is easily negated when the infected person gets enough immunity from the vaccine to make the survival and transmission of the virus less likely than on unvaccinated people, which is easily corroborated by seeing how all the variants of interest appeared in populations with low degree of vaccination, none appeared in the best vaccinated populations that would be necessary for your assumption to be true.

A subpar vaccine like the Chinese one is better than not being vaccinated, but it would still be worse than the best available vaccines for this purpose as well, because it would not let people neutralize the virus as fast and as completely, leaving room for variants to be selected.

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