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Churches amplify call for justice for slain Florida teen

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I suspect the usual cries about "seperation of church and state" is going to be not be addressed on any discussion on this article.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

I suspect the usual cries about "seperation of church and state" is going to be not be addressed on any discussion on this article.

The implication that members of a religious community have no right to appeal to the state for justice is ... (trying to decide between "nuts" and "just plain dumb.")

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Wow, I can't believe stuff like this is still happening. Makes me quite sad.

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The implication that members of a religious community have no right to appeal to the state for justice is ...

Your past position.

yabits Feb. 09, 2012 - 11:08PM JST As an American citizen, I recognize the separation of church and state, and therefore my personal religious-based beliefs must be made secondary to the settled law of the land, which includes the right of any woman to have an abortion during the first trimester of pregnancy."

Self-Defense is also settled law of the land, Yabits.

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Your past position.

That is my position now. Religious groups have every right to petition and protest outside of abortion clinics so long as they are not actively denying access or otherwise harassing other citizens.

Self-Defense is also settled law of the land, Yabits.

Only a jury can determine if self-defense applies in a criminal manslaughter case. To do their jobs properly, the police have to collect as much physical evidence as possible as soon as possible in order for a jury to make a determination. Due process is also settled law, and Trayvon Martin was completely denied it by criminally incompetent police who had nothing to go on but the word of the shooter -- as witness testimony was in serious conflict.

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To do their jobs properly, the police have to collect as much physical evidence as possible as soon as possible in order for a jury to make a determination.

I've seen nothing that implies that the police did not collect as much physical evidence as possible afterwards it just hasn't been released yet to the general public. They have his gun in custody, they do have forsenic evidence and it will be put forth to a grand jury. You do understand the concept of not releasing any physical evidence prior to hearing so that it may not become tainted and inadmissable in court I presume?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Many preachers and their congregations wore hooded sweatshirts in Martin's memory.

There is bereavement and there is pointless histrionics. It is tragic what happened to the 17 yo. It was an unnecessary and preventable tragedy. But your pastor donning a hoodie, in my opinion, is the completely wrong message. Call me "racist" or whatever but a kid who sees his preacher dressed like the thugs and hoodlums glorified in the misogynistic, guady and materialistic , violent rap and hip hop videos that are part of the ubiquitous 24/7 pop culture effluvium is a kid whose moral compass is being deranged by people who really ought to know better.

And I am sorry that a lot of people dont want to hear it but part of the "national dialogue" must include the clear message that there is no substitute in a boy's life for a responsible father figure.

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And I am sorry that a lot of people dont want to hear it but part of the "national dialogue" must include the clear message that there is no substitute in a boy's life for a responsible father figure.

Could you please share with us whatever information you have on the parenting abilities of this boy's father, and how at any rate they relate to this case?

I don't like hoodies any more than you, Lieb, but kids will be kids, which means they will copy the fashion of their peers (as adults do as well to a large extent). Try as I may, I can't get my son to quit wearing ankle socks.

Whatever the boy wore is no excuse at all for how Zimmerman reacted. With all the push and shove on both sides, let us not forget the simple facts of the case: boy goes to buy snacks; boy is targeted as suspicious; boy is killed with gun. The only sympathy I have for Zimmerman is in how he is a tool of the American gun lobby.

The hoodie is superfluous.

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Meanwhile the murderer Zimmerman is reportedly 'starting to understand the gravity of the situation' (talk about dense!), hiding, and begging friends (who know better, fortunately) to come to his defense as he cries away in some safe house and fears for his life. I hope he recognizes the irony, and hope he perhaps takes a second to realize the fear and otherwise horrible feelings he have don't amount to peanuts compared to what he inflicted on Martin, or even others in the past (he has been charged with assault previously).

And now some on here would have you believe style shares some of the blame.

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ABC is reporting today that the self-appointed vigilante Zimmerman had a broken nose after his encounter with Martin.

Zimmerman's friend Joe Oliver is a former anchorman on local TV and he is African American. He has bravely gone on TV and defended Zimmerman against the charges of racism. He has a pointed question for people like smithinjapan

"All these people who are threatening George,

what makes them any better than the person they think he is?"

Oliver said. "You've got all these people wanting to lynch the man and they don' t know the whole story. There are huge gaps that are being filled in and interpreted without evidence."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-friend-idUSBRE82O0FE20120325

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Whatever the boy wore is no excuse at all for how Zimmerman reacted. With all the push and shove on both sides, let us not forget the simple facts of the case: boy goes to buy snacks; boy is targeted as suspicious; boy is killed with gun.

Let's us also not omit a crucial simple fact.....boy is targeted as suspicious; Physical assault takes place; boy is killed.

I also wish that Zimmerman never had a gun that night and this tragic outcome would have never occurred.

And many will not like this: But if Zimmerman didn't have a gun when he confronted Martin and the evidence is pretty solid so far in that it was Zimmerman who had the bloody nose and a wound on the back of his head and grass stains on his back from the confrontation, indictating pretty strongly that Martin had in fact committed the physical violence first. Martin would be alive, but he would also have been arrested for assault and battery and he would have been be yet another young black male arrest statistic. Granted.......... this is a ONE HELL of a lot better outcome then the actual events of that horrible evening and I truly wish that was the outcome instead, but when the violence started, there was never going to be any good come out of it in this tragedy for anyone involved period.

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people like smithinjapan

Hmm! I don't think people like smithinjapan call 911 at least 46 times, get arrested for assault of a police officer, get accused of domestic violence and get out of their cars to follow someone they find suspicious when a 911 operator tells them specifically NOT to do that.

But I don't know for sure. Smithinjapan, tell us it ain't so! Please@@

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sailwind: "Let's us also not omit a crucial simple fact.....boy is targeted as suspicious;"

Yes, by a bigot.

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Lieberman: "All these people who are threatening George, what makes them any better than the person they think he is?"

You mean aside from the fact that I'm not the guy's friend nor am I someone who assaults police and goes and kills a black kid even after the police said I shouldn't follow him? What else besides that? Oh, and the calling 911 46 times that PeaceWarrior pointed out.

PeaceWarrior: "But I don't know for sure. Smithinjapan, tell us it ain't so! Please@@"

You're correct, it is not true at all, much as Lieberman tries to sling mud on me while defending a murderer.

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""You've got all these people wanting to lynch the man and they don' t know the whole story. There are huge gaps that are being filled in and interpreted without evidence."

And what does Oliver know, save that he's the only one dumb enough to stick up for his moronic friend? Oh wait... he asked how we are different from a murderer. Didn't this guy also have to take off his glasses and wipe his eyes because he couldn't deal with the frustration of an upset public that won't automatically let a murderer off the hook?

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smithinjapan

You mean aside from the fact that I'm not the guy's friend nor am I someone who assaults police and goes and kills a black kid even after the police said I shouldn't follow him?

I must apologize to smith. I have let him (and "peacewarrior") make complete fools of themselves.

You see, us Americans should have informed you that 911 operators are not cops.

If you do not heed their advice you are not necessarily defying the law.

So the guy made 46 calls to 911. He was part of the neighborhood watch in the third most crime-ridden city in the nation. None of his previous calls, so far as I can tell, include any racial slurs and the one that he is purported to have made after saying the guy he was watching and following looks black (not is black) could just easily have been the word "goon" which, at least when I was young, was not racial slur . Posters like Yabits know this, but I think they are more interested in pouring gas on the fire.

smith, again:

And what does Oliver know, save that he's the only one dumb enough to stick up for his moronic friend?

The mother of two young children - African Americans - that Zimmerman and his wife tutored, told Zimmerman's lawyer, "Absolutley not", when asked if she thought he was racist.

Its in the ABC article on Zimmerman and his lawyer, if you can get beyond your reflexive, thoroughly predictable PC responses and selective outrage.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

sailwind: "Let's us also not omit a crucial simple fact.....boy is targeted as suspicious;"

Yes, by a bigot.

The neighborhood watch volunteer who shot him, 28-year-old George Zimmerman, is the son of a white father and Hispanic mother,

Looking at he was raised by a mixed race family your claim that he is a bigot is more of the fact that he has his Father's surname and not his Mothers.

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peace warrior

Hmm! I don't think people like smithinjapan call 911 at least 46 times, get arrested for assault of a police officer, get accused of domestic violence

Zimmerman is a mortgage analyst who is member of a crimewatch group in a crime-ridden city. I think most objective people kinda understand the 46 calls by now.

As regards the other info you come here with what I have found is that Zimmerman was arrested at 21 for interfering in the arrest of a friend of his by state alcohol agents who suspected his friend had served someone underage. The official charge was resisting arrest without violence though, and as a first time offender it never went on a permanent record.

I searched for the domestic violence rap but only found an article (clickorlando.com "photo shows George Zimmerman scratched in domestic dispute") which had photos of him (at 21) with scratches on his face. Unclear though if he was victim or perp.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Well, from a continent that doesn't shoot first and ask questions later, you two look pretty desperate defending the murder of a un-armed teenager.

Zimmerman followed the boy after deciding "he was up to no good", forced the situtation and took his life.

The fact he was apparently getting his ass handed to him by a nipper sez it all.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Its is a sad time for me right now, to watch the people who would usually agree with, and state themselves, that we don't have all the facts, to turn around and act is if they do. I am seriously disappointed to see the second face of people I was positive had only one.

I have seen much too much made of backround sounds of 911 calls that sound like they were recorded on a child's tape recorder. I have seen much too much made of single words muttered and I cannot even tell you what that word is for the wind blowing in the telephone. I have seen much too much made of race. I have seen the press trusted far too much, the same people that told he was white before they told us he was half hispanic, as if it should make any damn bit of difference anyway.

I know I sit up here on the fence a lot, but given the raw emotionalism that is guiding this debate, rather than the reason that is my church, I am not coming down to join the one's who have already passed judgement. I will stay here with the doubters, and I think there are a few.

No, my position has not changed that I find this to be at least a chase of manslaughter. But its a big jump from manslaughter to murder, and while emotionalism may easily bridge the gap like a bird in flight, only the one who leaves no stone unturned on the journey will actually arrive at the truth.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

No, my position has not changed that I find this to be at least a chase of manslaughter.

My main position is that it is the police who exhibited racial bias in not apprehending Zimmerman with probable cause of manslaughter in the shooting death of a completely innocent and unarmed young man. Martin, who was not a violent or disrespectful person, was put in fear of his safety by Zimmerman -- who refused to identify himself as having any kind of authority to accost people engaged in the act of walking home from the store.

Zimmerman endangered Martin's life from the start and ended up taking it to complete the deal. But it is the police that the community depends upon to ensure that self-appointed vigilantes don't take the law into their own hands in the way that the extremely foolish and agitated Zimmerman did. Zimmerman wanted a confrontation, which is why he stalked out and hunted down Martin, until finally cornering him.

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It's hard to believe some people on this board are actually defending Zimmerman.

Good job, guys. I'm sure you will be saying the same thing if Zimmerman kills your kids beause they look suspicious.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

It's hard to believe some people on this board are actually defending Zimmerman.

Do you mean that they are declaring him innocent of murder or manslaughter, or both?

Or do you mean defend him like a lawyer, and merely point out facts that might make him innocent? Because the second is no more hard to believe than when John Adams defended the shooters of the Boston Massacre, and won the case.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Well, from a continent that doesn't shoot first and ask questions later, you two look pretty desperate defending the murder of a un-armed teenager

No one is defending the shooter. I defend the system, which is obligated to provide evidence, a fair trial and verdict.

I accuse the media of using this to further their usual agenda and I am disgusted that the usual clowns and race hustlers like "Reverend" Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have inserted themselves in the matter for the maximum amount of crowdsourced rage before the relevant authorities have settled it. .

Zimmerman followed the boy after deciding "he was up to no good", forced the situtation and took his life.

Pure conjecture on your part. There are huge gaps in the story. What if he confronted him, left and was later jumped by the young man,/

Someone has retrieved large parts of his Twitter acct, deleted after his death by someone. Kid was not the saint the media has painted him as.

http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/was-trayvon-martin-a-drug-dealer

The fact he was apparently getting his ass handed to him by a nipper sez it all.

17 y.o. football player 6'2 170 pounds. I suspect he'd hand you yours if you sat at a desk all day like the mortgage ananlyst zimmerman probably does.

I am not defending Zimmerman and I think "gated" communities are a form of suburban blight but then I am not from the third most crime-ridden city in the nation.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Hide Suzuki - It's hard to believe some people on this board are actually defending Zimmerman.

Good job, guys. I'm sure you will be saying the same thing if Zimmerman kills your kids beause they look suspicious.

According to eyewitnesses, Martin was slamming Zimmerman's head on the concrete sidewalk when Zimmerman first drew his pistol and shot him. That's self defense. Martin could have just gone home and went inside.

Zimmerman was following Martin because Martin looked suspicious. That's not illegal.

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