Clinton, Gates denounce planned Quran burning

Muslim countries would hold Bible burnings- that is IF they allowed Bibles into their country.

Amazing how much attention a crazy pastor can get if he burns the right book. However the idea that the simple burning of a book by a backwater nobody could illicit a response from leaders of the U.S government and military commanders is indicative that there is something horribly wrong with the whole situation (aside from the burning of what is really a lovely book).

It's HOW you remember it that matters; hating all Muslims in 'commemoration' or those who died not only dishonors their death, but literally spits on their gravestones before you kick them over.

I remember that it was one of the few times I can recall that I was genuinely afraid. Immediately after all that was left was rage towards the people who did it, the culture that spawned them, and the nations that gave them shelter. I don't hate Muslims, I've lived in and around Dearborn MI for years and I can't for the life of me even think of a Muslim I've met that I actually dislike. There's a cultural institute a block from my house and I've donated to and attended their events. But I hate, unequivocally hate, anybody even remotely allied to the elements that lead to that day including certain parties within the U.S.

Were it my choice I would be over there right now but unfortunately that's not the case.

burning the Quran is a testament to those who died and will ensure the safety of human beings in general in the days to come?? ridiculous!

I agree absolutely. Islam isn't the problem, those of Arabic descent aren't the problem, and contrary to popular belief neither is the U.S. or some of the admittedly intolerant individuals that inhabit it. The problem is with places that churn out these people, locations where U.S pressure shouldn’t let up until we suffocate every single living being as a warning to any future assailants.

Funny to hear the condemnation of this man. Did we condemn the man who published the Mohamed cartoons? That must have been really deserved because he really got under the skin of the muslims. I can still see Dutch dying all over the world for his actions.

Terry Jones may get a fatwah against him but this reflects on the ones putting it out not on him. When will the "tolerant" crowd on JT just wake up to reality? Never!

As does every decent human being. Burning books in America? I'm ashamed.

Taka

sailwind: Just like we remember getting 'kick in the nuts' once a year by Islamic radicals on 9/11 right?

I think it was more like a "cuppa acid in the face". And I don't think we remember it once a year on 9/11. It's much more like we remember it every day and still can't imagine why anyone would do that to us. Must be the devil's religion at work, do ya think?

isthistheend: "I mean, who started this."

People with the same mind-frame as this preacher, that's who. To say it's limited to one religion or ethnic background is a failure to see the truth, and to grow from it. In effect, you end up being a step closer to said people than seeing what they stand for, be they Islamic radicals, or Christians radicals like said pastor.

sailwind: "Just like we remember getting 'kick in the nuts' once a year by Islamic radicals on 9/11 right?"

Show me a single person who forgets 9/11 that is over 12 years old. It's HOW you remember it that matters; hating all Muslims in 'commemoration' or those who died not only dishonours their death, but literally spits on their gravestones before you kick them over. People who blame all of Islam for what happened are literally no different than the people that took over the planes and flew them into the towers, in terms of mind-frame. You're all angry, intolerant people. Remember what happened, by all means, so that you can honour the memories of those who died and do your best to prevent it from happening again, but are you going to tell me you think burning the Quran is a testament to those who died and will ensure the safety of human beings in general in the days to come?? ridiculous! Islam did not commit the heinous acts of 9/11; people like the pastor -- who interpret things as the wish to, in a radical fashion, did. I don't think I need get into too many examples of radical Christian nutbags like this pastor committing heinous crimes to suggest all Christians are evil terrorists.

There ought to be a "kick a conservative in the nuts day", just to give them enough pain to remember what its like once a year so they don't go looking for it.

Just like we remember getting 'kick in the nuts' once a year by Islamic radicals on 9/11 right?

yabits said: Problem solved.

Yabits, you cannot solve a problem that has been created just for the sake of having a problem! What all of this is about is nothing more than conservatives being bored and spoiling for a fight. Koran burning day? There ought to be a "kick a conservative in the nuts day", just to give them enough pain to remember what its like once a year so they don't go looking for it.

The people politically in the middle supporting this bullying and whipping up trouble are just idiots along for the ride.

Agreed, I think instead of building an Islamic cultural center and Mosque two blocks away from ground zero we should build it right on top of it, I mean smack dab right on top of the same rubble pile...

Yes, and then Muslim-Americans will show the graciousness to move it to its currently planned location, and the conservatives will see that as a reasonable compromise.

Problem solved.

sailwind, in typical conservative fashion, it seems you have managed to copy the form of rhetoric, but understood none of the substance. Your suggestion is not clever, amusing, nor enlightening. It is a hollow facade of a point.

MistWizard: "We are upset about this legal act not because it is not poor taste, but because it is hate speech. It is abuse of the freedom of speech to preach hate. But the Mosque is not poor taste. It is a provacative decision because some people see a connection that is not there. It is as provacative as a black man moving into a white racist neighborhood. It is worth it to defend the right of him to do so. It is not worth it to defend the right of a resident to burn an effigy of Booker T. Washington in protest. The hypocrisy in either is miniscule, and dwarfed by far more important issues."

Agreed, I think instead of building an Islamic cultural center and Mosque two blocks away from ground zero we should build it right on top of it, I mean smack dab right on top of the same rubble pile were George Bush held that micro-phone. That will show our respect for the victims of Islamic terrorism and our tolerance for what they did for Americans who were just going to work that day.

Of course its poor action, but can you blame the dude? I mean, who started this. And why not be able to say a word or two against the blasphemous things done in the name of ___. Today's paper shows a woman getting lashed and potentially stoned to death because of some crazy reason according to the Q. Can anybody in their right mind agree to this behavior? The LAW? Glad I write under an alias, or I'd be looking over my shoulder worrying about retribution. And that is about the only thing I respect about this crazy guy, he's saying "I ain't backing down out of fear of getting terrorized."

MistWizard: "We are upset about this legal act not because it is not poor taste, but because it is hate speech. It is abuse of the freedom of speech to preach hate. But the Mosque is not poor taste. It is a provacative decision because some people see a connection that is not there. It is as provacative as a black man moving into a white racist neighborhood. It is worth it to defend the right of him to do so. It is not worth it to defend the right of a resident to burn an effigy of Booker T. Washington in protest. The hypocrisy in either is miniscule, and dwarfed by far more important issues."

VERY well said.

All I can say is that I am glad the US has its priorities straight.

Everyone wants to focus on this circus clown of a preacher and ignore what needs to be said about the future of the country. Obama finally wants to talk about taxation and get American debating about who pays and who skates, and all the Tea Party and their ilk want to talk about is Islam and bonfires.

A lot of reasonable people think it is stupid, but I guess everyone loves a good temper tantrum. Anyone remember back in the day when a bunch of autoworkers would get together in Detroit and take sledgehammers to an old beat up Honda? Dey turk ur jerbs!! Or burning Saudis in effigy during the OPEC crises. This is the same kind of thing. A lot of hate and destruction, but when it comes down to it, America can't seem to show the world a better way. They don't even try anymore. Everyone wants to throw a tantrum and say "look at me".

People say that this is not representative of the USA. But you know? It is. Snooki, Balloon Boy, and Pastor Jones.

Molenir said: I find it incredibly hypocritical, that so many of the same people that were so vocal in their defense of the Imams absolute right to build a Mosque honoring the 19 martyrs, are so opposed to this.

I find it incredible that you STILL don't understand the word "hypocrisy". Hint: its a matter of degrees. A father who won't let his ten year old son smoke is a hypocrite of sort, but the degree is too small to make a big deal about except for a mental midget.

We are upset about this legal act not because it is not poor taste, but because it is hate speech. It is abuse of the freedom of speech to preach hate. But the Mosque is not poor taste. It is a provacative decision because some people see a connection that is not there. It is as provacative as a black man moving into a white racist neighborhood. It is worth it to defend the right of him to do so. It is not worth it to defend the right of a resident to burn an effigy of Booker T. Washington in protest. The hypocrisy in either is miniscule, and dwarfed by far more important issues.

Look, if anyone were "so" opposed to this, they would demand the pastor be locked up. No one is...yet. I would be far more tolerant if it were not for our troops occupying Muslim countries. Such as it is, I would gag the press on this until we are out of our occupations. The press is being as irresponsible as he is.

SuperLib: "So will there be any articles written about how the overwhelming amount of American condemnation towards the pastor will help to save American lives and improve America's image in the Muslim world?"

Since he's probably going to do it anyways, how can you prove him not doing so would have saved lives -- the only way you can prove the people are right, unfortunately, is if more lives are lost as a result of the man's actions. As for 'improving the image' in the Muslim world, this issue has united a LOT of people, and that has sent a powerful message about the loon this pastor is. I'm sure that the Muslim world recognizes that. Unfortunately, radicals are radicals, and the few that would use it as an excuse to kill will do so without looking at reason, the same way this man is refusing to look at reason and lashing out with blind hatred towards the acts of a few.

Molenir: "I find it incredibly hypocritical, that so many of the same people that were so vocal in their defense of the Imams absolute right to build a Mosque honoring the 19 martyrs..."

Just because you cannot see the forest for the trees and claim that the mosque is to honour 'the 19 martyrs' (and those are your words, my boy, NO ONE else's) does not mean that is the purpose of the mosque one little bit. In fact, this is the absolute worse case of misdirected anger and outright intolerance I have seen from you on this board. Go ahead and show us where the Imams say the mosque is being built to honour those 19 murderers (you call them martyrs, but I won't). I can easily point out where this man burning the Quran (an extremist act to 'commemorate' the acts by extremists) is pure intolerance and hatred.

My guess, you won't bother posting because you simply cannot; you have (again) proven your intolerance of a religion you cannot even begin or try to understand, based on the actions of some radicals. The hypocrisy of you supporting this man is absolutely astounding (and no, supporting a religious center is not the same thing at all).

Waiting (but I won't hold my breath) for your reply. And please don't insult the people here by deflecting... I want your sources from the Imams saying the mosque is being built in honour of the 19 'martyrs', as you call them.

DXXJP said: Do you think any of them opened it up, and read it before they sent it.

Ho, ho! I see what you are doing! You are trying to sneak in a below the belt punch to the illiterate! Well I will have you know that their parents were indeed married before they were born! So consider your statement in bad taste! :)

Pastor Jones doesn't just want to burn ONE Quran, he wants a big bonfire of hundreds of them and been asking people to send copies to be burned publicly. And I am sure some people actually went and bought some to be sent to him.

Do you think any of them opened it up, and read it before they sent it.

Food for thought.

Denial of reality doesn't help. They could simply and easily move it a few blocks away and no one would care...That they did so says precisely why they need to build it there.

The reality is that the Islamic Center in no way honors the 19 hijackers. That is the projection put onto it by the haters and liars.

The spirit of asking good and decent Muslim-Americans to move their Center is *precisely the same spirit as this guy who wants to burn the Quran: [Predominantly] white American hatred of Islam.

That sincerely religious people should be demanded to move a center because it offends the sensibilities of haters and liars provides one powerful reason why it should be built according to plan.

The terrorists were killing Christians before this, they will continue to do so after this. Nothing will change. They would find or invent another reason anyway. But the pastor still shouldn't do it.....it brings Christianinty into the gutter, burning books like that. The Muslims who execute Christian missionaries and execute people for carrying a bible are pathetic, ignorant murdering scum who shame their religion, so I don't see why Christians should sink to their level.

RomeoRamenII: bombing them will make them love you long time.

Muslims will still hate us/kill us if an American doesn't burn the koran.

This is the type of bigotry that will work against Americans.

What if some fanatic in any of Moslem countries holds some American tourist responsible for the actions of this demented man?

Muslims will still hate us/kill us if an American doesn't burn the koran.

No matter how much this administration tries to pressure him not to do it, the fact still remains Jones has the right under the U.S. Constitutional Law to burn as many copies of the koran as he wants. As an American, I do not support his actions, but I do support his First Admendent right to do so.

RR

So will there be any articles written about how the overwhelming amount of American condemnation towards the pastor will help to save American lives and improve America's image in the Muslim world?

Probably not. Seems to only work one way.

Yes, much of the Christian world has denounced this act, and there will be condemnations of it thundering forth from many (if not most) churches in the US.

And, though this is a good thing, what do you remember about 9/11.

Do you remember that much of the Muslim world denounced that act, and the condemnations that thundered forth from most of the Mosques around the world, or do you remember the few exceptions?

If you answered the second (as the people who have been screaming about those few exceptions devoutly hope you will), ask yourself, isn't it likely the same thing is going to happen over this incident?

Lou Dobbs on Twitter:

AG Holder, Sec.State Clinton, Gen.Petraeus publicly condemn a preacher and congregation of 50 families? They can't come up/a better answer?!

Awesome!

Hi WilliB, I am sorry if I pissed you off with my request for tolerance.

Really, that was what my posting was about.

Perhaps because of the way I posted my last message, then you felt I was promoting my own religion.

No.

The most wonderful person I have ever met, was from Vietnam and she was Buddhist.

I am afraid that I have never met anyone who was "Sikkhism, Zoroastrianism, Bahaism or Jainism."

I would like to speak with them. Actually, talk.

In my last posting, I tried to capitalize a couple of words, just to make clear where was my upbringing. I feel that does affect how I post my opinion. So, I felt I should make clear my religion.

True to tell, I thought, this news article was inflammatory. In my opinion, it was just another excuse for the religious intolerant to be violent toward the silent majority.

Now, I must take hatred toward your quote : "While desecrating the 9/11 site is A-OK, of course. We got it."

You are a complete [edited].

I assume you refer to the proposed Islamic building which will probably be built near the site of the atrocity that happened on September 11.

It is my opinion, that, this building, is constructed, in great danger, to those who make the building.

It is my opinion that they risk their lives to build this structure. Why should they construct such a building?

You, of course, have the answer. It is not the right answer.

While desecrating the 9/11 site is A-OK, of course. We got it.

Open your eyes. Only an idiot like Sarah Palin or Glenn Beck could think that building a religious center near the WTC desecrates anything.

Apparently its ok to use American tolerance to insult America, but its not ok, for America to offend someone else because of that groups intolerance.

Or maybe its just cause their Muslim. And we can't insult Muslims. Christians, sure, no problem, but not Muslims...

Your quote is so dumb that I have to point it out.

You assume that building an Islamic Community Center is an insult to the USA. It is not. You assume it is because it is to be built in the neighborhood of the WTC. In the USA, people are free to celebrate any religion. You assume that it is an insult because the criminals of 9/11 were Muslim extremists. That is the dumb part of this type of thinking. There is no relationship between extremist and laymen in any religion. That's why they are called extremist.

This Jones is also an extremists. He does not represent Christian values anymore than Al Qaeda represents Muslim values.

Molenir, WilliB: discrimination leads to radicalization. By the way, the building in New-York is not only a Mosque but also a cultural center. I see (read) that you refuse any dialog and want to believe that all Muslims approved 9/11 and the death of all "infidels" but the reality is other.

The guy can burn the Koran if he wants. He just wants publicity. Do it because he can and nobody can stop him.

WilliB: While desecrating the 9/11 site is A-OK, of course. We got it.

What are talking about?

Man who'd a thunk Republicans can even think as hateful as a extremist muslim? So did they put any fatwah's on anyone? Condemn anyone to death by stoning? These evil Republicans must be stopped aday. Maybe you should get out your suicide vest toot suite.

I was listening to a local talk show this afternoon, here in KCKS and it was crazy listening to the republicans who wanted the Korans burned, Muslims kicked out of the military and just violence against Muslims. These are the republicans that I'm used to hearing.

suuure. Do you have a transcript to prove it? You probably heard 1 guy, and in your retelling it's the entire Republican Party membership. You know these were Republicans? Did they say it?

When muslims are insensitive to their host country's feelings it's ok but when someone is insensitive to them they are worthy of much condemnation despite their rights of expression.

I was listening to a local talk show this afternoon, here in KCKS and it was crazy listening to the republicans who wanted the Korans burned, Muslims kicked out of the military and just violence against Muslims. These are the republicans that I'm used to hearing.

I hear what you're saying. Though personally, I'd like to see him not burn the Koran because its disrespectful to anothers beliefs. I'm a conservative, and I can certainly understand the irritation about the intolerance of Muslims around the world, but thats no excuse to be doing something like this.

I also say though, that just like the Imam, building a Mosque at ground zero, this individual has the right to burn these books. However neither should do it. If either had any decency at all, they wouldn't do it.

Ivan Kalinin:

" Here, is now the point of my posting. With every religion, there are extremists. EVERY RELIGION. "

You capitalize this claim, so you must be very very sure. So please can you name for us some of those extremists in Buddhism, Sikkhism, Zoroastrianism, Bahaism or Jainism who have gone and murdered other believers to please their god?

I am waiting.

Ivan:

" OK, I'm the guy who listed earlier. I am Roman Catholic, not Islamic. Please do not desecrate the name of the Q'uran "

While desecrating the 9/11 site is A-OK, of course. We got it.

OK, I'm the guy who listed earlier. I am Roman Catholic, not Islamic.

Please do not desecrate the name of the Q'uran. It would be like naming the Bible, the Bbile.

The true name of the Q'uran is in another language, not English. It is: ‎لقرآن

If you should hear the name of the Q'uran spoken by a believer, it is a very pretty word.

Please, please, do this holy work, justice.

Time to clear out all religious brainwashing books.

I was listening to a local talk show this afternoon, here in KCKS and it was crazy listening to the republicans who wanted the Korans burned, Muslims kicked out of the military and just violence against Muslims. These are the republicans that I'm used to hearing.

What was so funny is that this was a conservative talk show and the two hosts couldn't believe the hate being spewed.

I'd like to see him not burn the Korans, because I think that US Servicemen might be more in harms way because of this. < :-)

I thought it was called the "Koran" and it's a book like any other, no more no less, and the act of burning it should have no special significance one way or the other. What religion has the right to tell other religions what they may or may not do ? It's a free country, love it or leave it. People could shovel Bibles into blast furnaces all day long and not much would be said about it.

"That is a scurrilous lie."

Please, Calm down, kiddo. Yes, this was a "scurrilous," which means, "vulgar and obscene."

I knew(spelling?) that I would post a very bad listing.

I am sorry, I apologize to you specifically; and I apologize to this board.

However, I must defend my view.

As much as I can, I will defend the best of the folk of the Islamic faith to whom I woud trust my daughters (should I have such). My wife. Yes, if she needed protecting, and I could not protect her, I would give her to the folk at the gas station.

Here, is now the point of my posting.

With every religion, there are extremists. EVERY RELIGION.

I do not care what the religion is. I do not care the EXUSE that is used to murder others of another faith.

I just find that to be an EXCUSE.

Great. With this news article, They have ANOTHER reason to destroy. Wonderful.

What should all Americans do? Should we dig holes into which we hide our sorry little lives? Should we fear the Islamic extremists? Should we hide away because of this NEW excuse for destruction?

I ask you -- what should we, as Americans, do? Should we fear the Islamic extremists? Should we die under our beds?

Should the Islamic extremists win?

That is a scurrilous lie. The Islamic center would honor no such thing. This is just the liars' and haters' projection of their own fantasies onto the center.

Sorry Yabits. Denial of reality doesn't help. They could simply and easily move it a few blocks away and no one would care. Hell, Patterson even offered to help them find a place, and give em a huge economic incentive to move it, and they refused. That they did so says precisely why they need to build it there. Your continued denials don't change the facts.

The harm done from this story is from the excessive media attention. Again, I believe this media attention is intentional and serves to reinforce the mistaken idea that Muslims did 911.

Totally agree. Some nobody from a tiny Florida church is going to burn a koran, and it makes international headlines, and stays on the front page? Come on, hes a loon. And not in the political sense either. The more media attention he gets, the happier he is.

Find it funny how everybody is against the Imam now, when he was employed by the US administration as an advisor to President Bush not too long ago. He can help you guys one day and next day he will be ditched and became the devil and enemy.

It's now that we know about him. And oiver the years, there have been plenty of exposes and complaints about Imams who are working in and with the US government on all levels. Yet the government continues to employ radicals (we even elect them) in a failed attempt to spread goodwill among Muslim nations.

I see that US leaders and the MSM continue to milk this story.

Burning the Quran is bad, but who cares, leave this nutjob do whatever he likes, as long as he does not harm anyone and as long as he owns the books.

The harm done from this story is from the excessive media attention. Again, I believe this media attention is intentional and serves to reinforce the mistaken idea that Muslims did 911.

Pastor Jones doesn't just want to burn ONE Quran, he wants a big bonfire of hundreds of them and been asking people to send copies to be burned publicly.

And I am sure some people actually went and bought some to be sent to him.

He had this whole idea and campaign going for some time now.

This is how the whole deal became public he advertised it widely.

As for the Mosque in NY. Find it funny how everybody is against the Imam now, when he was employed by the US administration as an advisor to President Bush not too long ago. He can help you guys one day and next day he will be ditched and became the devil and enemy.

Well, this nutcase preacher succeeded in getting our glorious overlords to respond to his grade school antics. I don't know which of them is the most clueless.

... to build a Mosque honoring the 19 martyrs

That is a scurrilous lie. The Islamic center would honor no such thing. This is just the liars' and haters' projection of their own fantasies onto the center.

For the record, Pastor Jones has every right to burn a Quran, even if the act of doing so is likely to end in the deaths of more Americans. And if it takes the deaths of more Americans to keep stoking the hatred of the real hypocrites in this issue, they appear more than prepared to accept that.

believe, no matter what this little church in America will do, changes nothing. Extremists of the Islamic faith will continue to murder -- regardless of the excuse.

I agree. But it gives the extremist another excuse for thier holy war against the west. Another reason for 99...or however virgins they are promised.

"They said destruction of Qurans would inflame tensions and put Americans abroad at risk."

Let us understand this. In Afghanistan, in August, there have been 22 American deaths from IED's (Improvised Explosive Devices). In Iraq this month, the only American death was from an IED. And of course, the slaughter of American civilians on September 11 numbered in the thousands.

I believe, no matter what this little church in America will do, changes nothing. Extremists of the Islamic faith will continue to murder -- regardless of the excuse.

I find it incredibly hypocritical, that so many of the same people that were so vocal in their defense of the Imams absolute right to build a Mosque honoring the 19 martyrs, are so opposed to this. And vocal in their criticism of it. Apparently its ok to use American tolerance to insult America, but its not ok, for America to offend someone else because of that groups intolerance.

Or maybe its just cause their Muslim. And we can't insult Muslims. Christians, sure, no problem, but not Muslims...

"Clinton appealed for Jones to reconsider and cancel. In the event that he carries out the plan, she suggested to laughter from the audience, that the news media ignore it."

Yes. Laughter. The media love this stuff. Has anybody ever suggested a boycott? You can bet that this is going to get covered heavily, with videos posted on the net ad nauseum. It's not censorship, it is a matter of professionalism. Just because something gets page views does not mean that it is newsworthy.

Petraeus said Tuesday that “images of the burning of a Quran would undoubtedly be used by extremists in Afghanistan and around the world to inflame public opinion and incite violence.” In addition, Gen. Ray Odierno, the former top commander in Iraq, said Wednesday he feared extremists would use the incident to sow hatred against U.S. troops overseas.

World Outreach Center? More like reach out and burn something.