Clinton, in Indonesia, seeks to improve U.S. image with Muslims

This is a very good thing, but it will be lost on some; Clinton is loathed by more than a few posters on here, and many of those same people loathe Muslims in general. I can't see those posters being happy about this.

Still, most people in the world actually WANT peace, and this is a good step in the right direction. It's also good that the US is taking the lead in making amends and making relations better, rather than pointing fingers and saying, "YOU have to apologize FIRST!" or some equally childish crap.

Good job again to the Obama admin.

and many of those same people loathe Muslims in general

I've seen no posters here who state they loathe Muslims. However, there are several who dislike intensely the openly misogynistic and aggressive teachings of Islam. Moreover, I notice that Islam is doing nothing at all to improve its image with the non-Islamic world.

Still, most people in the world actually WANT peace

One of the aggressive teachings to which I referred is the Islamic teaching that the world can't truly be at peace until Islam is in control, ie everyone is under the rule of Sharia. That's not so say all Muslims agree with this; it is however part of Islamic teaching, and therefore cannot be challenged, even by Muslims. You have strong opinions about Islam, smith, yet you don't appear to have read the Koran.

That's not so say all Muslims agree with this; it is however part of Islamic teaching, and therefore cannot be challenged, even by Muslims.

Muchakucha, good points. I think it is ironic that the statemen you quoted above is part of the Islamic Tenet, but yet when a Christian (as I am) say that you can only be saved by believing Christ, we are ridiculed and accused of prosletyzing (even by Jews).

Whether you are Islamic, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, etc I think that you should have the right to practice your religion and respect the rights of others. If you move to another part of the world where your religion is not the dominate one, you should respect the local customs, but still be allowed to practice your own. I find it hard sometimes to understand why many Muslims come to places like America and England and want to set up their on Sharia law system, but yet me as a Christian can't even walk into the city of Mecca (since I am a non believer).

I don't think Hillary's visit will do much, but I hope that it does. I would have thought that Obama would have gone there first since he spent part of his childhood there. But good luck to Hillary.

Good job Obama-Clinton administration, making higher ties and improving ties with many nations,should go up next in 2009/2010s.

It is difficult to say if Hillary's Healing Touch will be felt by Muslims around the world, but good (sincere) effort by Obama Admn.

Muchakucha: One of the aggressive teachings to which I referred is the Islamic teaching that the world can't truly be at peace until Islam is in control, ie everyone is under the rule of Sharia. That's not so say all Muslims agree with this; it is however part of Islamic teaching, and therefore cannot be challenged, even by Muslims.

But reality tells us that a vast majority of Muslims don't follow that teaching. A vast majority of Muslims don't even support Sharia law in their own countries. I don't think they have of a burning desire to export it to the West regardless of what is or isn't in the Koran.

I think Islam is abused by terrorists to create followers, but Islam alone doesn't create terrorists.

Muchakucha: "I've seen no posters here who state they loathe Muslims. However, there are several who dislike intensely the openly misogynistic and aggressive teachings of Islam."

I've met a number on this site who loathe Muslims in general and, not to be a broken record, but have also seen some who even say Muslims are the cause of all the worlds problem, and even a few yet who outright called for their slaughter (they have since masked it slightly, but one or two are still on here). They usually take the intense dislike of Islam that you mention and blanket it to all who practice, regardless of the fact that many sects interpret the Koran differently and even condemn the actions of others.

Nope, I haven't read the Koran, in its entirety (I was once given a copy by a friend in Canada for a while but never got around to doing much with it, to his sadness). I haven't read my computer manual, the Japanese constitution, or all 1000 + pages of the stimulus bill either, but that doesn't lessen my opinion on threads that contain these things (minus my computer) and acts of courage or violence or what have you around the world. I DO plan on picking up a copy and reading it through just for the sake of having done it, same as I did the Bible, but the idea that you have to have read to the Koran to have an opinion about Islam is folly. Some of the most bigoted statements I've seen on this site and this topic come from people who proclaim to have read the Koran and, as I said, loathe Islam and Muslims in general. I would leave it at that and simply state that they are ignorant if that's all it were, but in some cases they seem intent on spreading the hate they feel in their hearts, and it's just wrong. In short, they are often as bad or worse than what they condemn, but think they are justified because of how they interpret what they've read.

Alphaape: "I find it hard sometimes to understand why many Muslims come to places like America and England and want to set up their on Sharia law system, but yet me as a Christian can't even walk into the city of Mecca (since I am a non believer)."

A very excellent post, and I think that so long as people like yourself are willing to TALK about it, as you are now, without ramming their beliefs (or trying to) down others' throats there may indeed be hope for us living in peace yet. I don't think Hillary's visit will accomplish TOO much, but even if it mollifies the Muslim community so that they take a step towards dialogue, it's a start. There is no question this is a two-way street, but I have no qualms whatsoever in taking the first humble steps towards opening that street up. There is talk these days of allowing a Christian church in Saudi Arabia, and the king is currently toning down some of the radical elements of Islam (not much so far, but a little).

SuperLib: "I think Islam is abused by terrorists to create followers, but Islam alone doesn't create terrorists."

Best statement I've heard from you in a long time, my friend.

smithinjapan

Clinton is loathed by more than a few posters on here, and many of those same people loathe Muslims in general.

Yeah there are a lot of posters who don't like her but she can still do the job. < :-)

Clinton is loathed by more than a few posters on here, and many of those same people loathe Muslims in general.

A true Muslim would not be loathed. There are some who claim to be Muslim, but have strayed from it's true beliefs.

smithinjapan: I've met a number on this site who loathe Muslims in general and, not to be a broken record, but have also seen some who even say Muslims are the cause of all the worlds problem, and even a few yet who outright called for their slaughter (they have since masked it slightly, but one or two are still on here). They usually take the intense dislike of Islam that you mention and blanket it to all who practice

Others do the same thing here to Bush and Republicans, but to a much greater extent.

SuperLib

and even a few yet who outright called for their slaughter

This portion of that reference is incorrect in reference to bush and republicans. You are speaking about posters like myself. I don't like george bush and I'm indifferent to the republican's platform, but I don't wish them or you any harm.

I think that Hillary Clinton is exactly who we need to talk to the world for the United States. The way that we have been seen by the world has been pretty crude in the past few years. We might be able to work with our foreign friends. < :-)

smith: I now believe that you understand the difference betweem hating Muslims and disliking Islam. Muslims are born into an ideology which they cannot leave (since it's punishable by death.) Women born into that ideology suffer daily (since they are offically owned by their husbands) And I agree that the vast majority of Muslims would not want to harm anyone. However, the ideology they've been born into unequivocally preaches stuff which by modern standards is just evil. Muslims aren't evil, but parts of Islamic doctrine most certainly is.

Terrorists claim they're committing their atrocities in the name of Islam. They even cite specific verses. The USA's insane foreign policy (eg Iraq) gives them an reason to fight. The Koran actually gives them divine sanction to fight. America stumbled blindly into a war with a Muslim country. It attacked Muslim lands. According to Islamic teaching, the whole of Islam is now at war with America and its allies. It's as the jihadists say, a 'holy war'. The Koran mandates this. Mohammed himslef personally beheaded around 600 prisoners of war. That's why jihadists strive to emulate him when executing hostages. That is the nature of Islam.

To cure a problem, it must first be diagnosed, not obfuscated.

[rather than pointing fingers and saying, "YOU have to apologize FIRST!" or some equally childish crap.] Seems I heard things to that effect on threads involving Japanese wartime behavior...some from you perhaps? I have nothing against Clinton going to Indonesia. I hope it helps. But knowing some in the religion will twist it to a negative I don't expect much to come of it.

Muslims need to improve their image with the US, not the other way around. Is it my imagination or did Muslims attack the US earlier this decade?