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Clinton, Netanyahu clashing over Jerusalem housing plans

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I might have revise my position on this a bit. It is actually hard to tell who is the majority in East Jerusalem. It may depend on where you draw the lines.

Israel or the State of Israel is the best friend, most reliable best friend of the US or the United States. These alone merits the Americans best regard or understanding and cooperaion for these more beleaguered nation or nationalities.

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Israel has no intentions of peace. As they have said Jerusalem will remain the undivided capital of Israel while the Palestinians also claim it as their capital. We can't even get past the start line. I say we arm both sides instead of just Israel and let them finish each other off.

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USARonin, I can see that you're playing multiple parts here, all defending the indefensible. You just don't get it, do you.

Israel concentrates on building a society, not destroying their neighbors. They are a successful, properous society with a quality of life most folks on the planet envy.

If Israel disappeared tomorrow, and poof a Palestinian state appeared in its place, one or more Arab states would invade it within the week.

Both of those statements are patently untrue. Building a society does not means treating half of its members like dirt. israeli women would disagree with the quality of life part as they are the most beaten of all women (by their partners) in the region. It is israel which has attacked Lebanon in 2006, and Gaza several times since. Who exactly would invade Palestine? And why? What utter rot!

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USARonin, you have a whole batch of unrelated comments to justify subverting democracy and fairness in East Jerusalem and West Bank. Sorry, but none of them stick and all are not only irrelevant, but most are plain wrong too.

I do not hate America but I have many problems with her government including military aid for Israel, a country which snubs its nose at democracy in order to steal land. Arab use of Palestinians as pawns is as ugly as Israel doing the same. I never said anything about general Arab feelings because its irrelevant. People have a right to rule themselves. Your continued avoidance of that fact shows more and more that you hate democracy and fairness and only put the words democracy and Israel in the same sentence together to try and fool us into thinking otherwise. If you love democracy why do you avoid talking about it with talk of invasions and other nonsense?

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Lars, Israel concentrates on building a society, not destroying their neighbors. They are a successful, properous society with a quality of life most folks on the planet envy.

If Israel disappeared tomorrow, and poof a Palestinian state appeared in its place, one or more Arab states would invade it within the week.

You don't get it, Lars. The US that you hate and obsess about so much does more for the Palestinians than other Arabs do. You also don't seem to understand that Arabs hate Palestinians and only use them to get at Israel.

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USARonin, thank you for bringing up Israel's economy.

And no, I think if Israel disappeared tomorrow both mine and Sabi's world would be one heck of a lot safer. Despite that, I never advocated such a thing. The majority in Israel want to be Israeli, but if that ever changes it should be lived with.

As for the leader crack, that cuts both ways. Both Israeli and Arab politicians used fear of the other for support.

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Lars, you should write your congressman and let him know how you feel.

He's there to represent you.

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Another "East Side Story" in the making...Jew and Arab have tragic love affair... Funny, but if you look up the word "Dude" in Hebrew, it means "beloved one", but if you look it up in Arabic, it is one of the worst insults you can express towards another person. Maybe this is all one big misunderstanding...

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Hmmm... make that all aid above. Military aid should be cut anyway.

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I might have revise my position on this a bit. It is actually hard to tell who is the majority in East Jerusalem. It may depend on where you draw the lines.

What is irksome is that after capturing East Jerusalem, Israel maintained policies to force a Jewish majority and did not actually get it until 1993, 26 years after capturing East Jerusalem by force. Other Israeli policies have included a gerrymandering of the city borders to gain a Jewish majority and also denials of building permits to Palestinians, basically apartheid.

Israel has used underhanded tactics to abuse what would have been a democratic process. The Israelis love democracy about as much as Josef Stalin, so I don't much care to hear about how its the only democratic country in the M.E. And I do not want to let them get away with this disgusting abuse of democratic principle, which has made everything much more complicated than it had to be.

I still want a democratic vote on self-rule, but it has to be done in a way that is not gerrymandered in someone's favor. I would go with the borders of 50 years ago, which would mean East Jerusalem voting as a divided city, some settlements not getting a vote, and all current residents of voting age would vote. I honestly have no idea how that would turn out but I would be willing to accept the results for either side.

Even if Israel wins however their past actions with these settlements cannot be forgotten. I would cut off all military aid or make them a deal: Give up the Muslim sections of East Jerusalem except for some corridors to the current settlements and no more new ones. Let the demographics take care of themselves. I suspect the settlements will drain on their own anyway. And I don't even want to discuss holy site visitation rights.

Until there is such a self-rule vote I cannot support new settlements in East Jerusalem, especially if that is actually West Bank in general according to pre-67 lines.

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Sabi, Israel is the only democracy in the ME and we believe that's a good thing.

If Israel disappeared tomorrow, your world would not improve or be any safer.

Israel's economy is one of the best in the world, isn't it? Arab states could learn a lot from the Israelis. Arab leaders gotta focus on Israel so their people won't focus back on them.

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The US simply needs to denounce Israel and get rid of them -- since Israel has done NOTHING but drag the US down for decades and make enemies of Americans everywhere, and for what?

Very true. Israel is more a parasite than an ally. Time for the US to cure itself.

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Why does the US insist on humouring Israel on this issue?? It's not like the latter is ever going to change it's mind without an ultimatum. The US simply needs to denounce Israel and get rid of them -- since Israel has done NOTHING but drag the US down for decades and make enemies of Americans everywhere, and for what? for Israel to simply turn its nose on the US whenever it disagrees?

Sorry: tell Netanyahu, no settlements, or no money money/aid/defense.

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