Clinton, Obama duel ahead of Indiana, North Carolina primaries

It's wonderful. Another day of clean politicing and no dirt.

Yeah, I saw both programs. They were talking their sides.

I'll be glad when they decide, or it's decided at the Convention. But I'd like to know who's going to be against McCain.

As a non US citizen, I have to say that I would like to see Obama take the presidency. The USA needs a new direction and fresh vision. Mrs. Clinton would be just another in a long line of same old same old. She is mainsream and unlikely to change much, i.e. she would stay in Iraq and attack any enemy of Israel, a major terrorist country. I guess Obama would have to support Israel to a certain extent, but he might use his brains to figure out that they need to be more controlled by their donor ally. Hillary was the first to start mud slinging and in my book that demeanes her and lowers her considerably in my estimation. How people can still flock to her banner with her appalling record is beyond me. Voting for her would be almost as bad as voting for Dubya or McCain.

I am voting for Obama. I think America is ready for a Black president, and Black Americans more than deserve "one of their own" to finally become president. They have most certainly paid their dues with blood, sweat, and tears. The world will also root for Obama. Someone young with a true vision, to bring America out of the dark ages of imperialism and disgrace.

Obama is the candidate of Hope, and Change, and little origami birdies of Peace.

Black Americans more than deserve "one of their own" to finally become president" You know its that attitude you have that is driving away a lot of people from him. If you want to use your logic, how about Native Americans, Latinos, and Chinese - all who have paid their dues?

skipthesong,

That's a point well taken. Many minorities are "deserving". But which of the ones you named are (still) in the running now?

super delegate,

Very nice. When you are making those little origami birdies of Peace you are not making war. But that does not mean you are unwilling to defend yourself, I hope.

sezwho: Are you implying that no white guy should run?

Believe it or not this question has been coming up a lot

"I I am voting for Obama. Ithink America is ready for a Black president."

Heh ... the ultimate spilt vote. Actually, barack's only 50 percent black. Why is it that U.S. liberals tend to overlook that minor fact?

Besides, bill clinton told Arsenio Hall on his talk show in the late 1980s that if elected, he'd be America's first black president. So in liberal-o-vision, that milestone has already been met.

RR

"I think America is ready for a Black president."

I agree. Unfortunately, Gen. Powell did not submit his application for the job and barack is not the right black person to lead the most powerful nation on the planet.

RR

skipthesong,

I have no idea how your question follows from my post. To answer it, though, no, I am not implying that no white guy (or gal) should run.

I thought your point was that Native Americans, Latinos and Chinese are also deserving. I agree with that, but there aren't any Native Americans, Latinos or Chinese now in the running for president as a Republican or Democrat.

The way that I read rjd jr's post is that he thinks it is timely for people to be able to choose someone other than a white male and that he prefers Obama to Clinton. Perhaps you read it another way.

RomeoRamenII,

Out of all the white people to choose from, I take it you don't find it unfortunate if the choice were to come down to Clinton or McCain. If we look at it purely on the matter of qualification by race, I'd have to say that neither Clinton nor McCain is the right white person to lead America. Then if I were going to characterize instead of using proper names, I'd have to say that neither of them is the right white person to help wean a powerful nation from its abuses of power.

As pointed out above, Obama should be the ideal candidate being both black and white. I don't thing the red neck airian brotherhood nutters will see him in that light however and doubt if it would be long before he was assassinated, (sadly). If Hillary had half a brain, she would have backed Mr. Obama ages ago, ensuring a Democrat to be the next president and she would be VP, then, when some white supremacist offed the poor guy she could do a Lindon Johnson and step up as pres by default.

she would be VP" No way! If he brings Hillary on as VP, I will vote for McCain or even Ronald McDonald

skipthesong,

I think I agree with you there, but would have to wait and see how it plays out. I don't see how an Obama/Clinton ticket (or vice-versa) could possibly be a dream ticket. My current imagination has it looking more like a chimera.

RomeoRamenII:

Besides, bill clinton told Arsenio Hall on his talk show in the late 1980s that if elected, he'd be America's first black president. So in liberal-o-vision, that milestone has already been met.

Actually, I think Warren G. Harding was the first black president. One of his grandmothers was black, and by the standards of that era that would have qualified him.

Slick Willie can possibly still claim another first however: First rapist to serve as president.

rjd_jr:

I am voting for Obama. I think America is ready for a Black president, and Black Americans more than deserve "one of their own" to finally become president.

How about J.C. Watts then? Colin Powell? Condi Rice? Thomas Sowell? I mean, if skin color/race is your only qualification...

Obama keeps looking weaker on foreign policy. I saw an interview with him condemning Clinton's comments on Iran as unconstrcutive and Bush like. She was asked what we would do if Iran attacked Israel and her response which is correct was something along the line of "Iran knows we would destroy them". Now, anyone here who thinks that Iran is a bunch of good guys not held in check by the threat of US and Israeli miltary retalliation get a grip. I think Obama's foreign policy is too weak, the US is the last super power because people are afraid of our military and that is the only reason.

GO HILLARY CLINTON!!! I would definitely want to see a woman president and I love Hillary Clinton! I hate Obama and if he ever gets to be the nominee of the democratic party I'm votin Republican! I'll be a McCainocrat if Obaba wins the democratic nomination.

GO HILLARY WIN INDIANA AND NORTH CAROLINA!!!!

So, it is a black man's "turn"? Even if he is 99% UNQUALIFIED?

That alone, I wonder how Clinton and Obama can debate on anything, since they agree on EVERYTHING. They want to soak with taxes any "rich" person (Thats a family of four whose parents both work. Obama had $71000 / family of 4 as RICH on his website, but now removed. Can use Internet Archive to find it).

They all talk like conservatives when they run, then take a hard left turn after elected. They arent this time, because all the new voters care about is IMAGE, not ISSUES.

Americans will soon learn (and forget as quickly) the harm in such silly decisions as "its a woman's turn" and "Its a black mans turn". I dont agree with McCain on many things, but he is the ONLY qualified person running.

Alan Keyes is black, but he is a republican, so he will never get the support of the crooked and corrupt self-appointed black "leaders" like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

Remember what the left did to Clarence Thomas? Because he was right of center politically.

zkna0:

That alone, I wonder how Clinton and Obama can debate on anything, since they agree on EVERYTHING.

From what I can tell, the only thing they disagree on is how much economy-destroying government regulation should go along with their economy-destroying taxation plans. Clinton wants more government regulation and oversight (no oversight of the government, of course). Other than that, it's just identity politics.

'My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it.' -- Barack Obama

WhiteHawk,

You use the quotation out of context. It is very clear that Obama was saying that the United States was a great nation and it was great, in part, because the people have the power and the ability to determine what changes we need to make to improve our lives.

One of the changes that Obama wants to make is to make sure that our government works to the benefit of the American people and not to their detriment:

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." -- George W. Bush

Gee! Do you think he really meant that?

Well, SezWho is right, I think it's timely that Americans actually have a very real choice to choose a Black person as a president, not one of those "jesse Jackson" type of presidential joke runs. WhiteHawk, those Black Americans are good choices but we're dealing here with Obama, he's the only Black person in the running in this tight democratic race, so that is the only choice. But what I am saying is that in this very weak presidential field, I would not want McCain the madman to be president. I think Barrack would be the best because a lot of other countries already like him. German media was enamored of him, and there was even a Japanese city that was enamored of him too. He's not perfect but neither are Hillary and Mccain for sure. The fact that he is Black is icing on the cake and is inspirational that an American of Black descent, a group of people who have been in America as long as the first white europeans, and did not have even the most basic of human rights and dignity until the middle of the 20th century, finally has a chance for the ultimate prize.

I think Barrack (sp) would be the best because a lot of other countries already like him.

Great. Let those countries vote him in as their leader. In the meantime, barack should be left alone to eat his waffle. The rookie senator from Illinois is woefully unqualified to be president of the most powerful nation on the planet.

RR

RomeoRamenII- Bush has a 30% approval rating in his own country, the entire world thinks he is the worst president ever. In fact, he has done more to foster division than any other leader in the free world. The zenith came when Bush announced to the world after 9/11 that if you are not with us you are against us, is just the hight of belligerence. In this assertion he is virtually threatening the world. Barrack would be much better

the entire world thinks he is the worst president ever." I find myself agreeing with you. And, you are right, he played the aftermath of 9/11 completely wrong..

However, I know you are all for Obama, but why do you think he would be much better and still saying you are better than Bush really isn't saying much. I t would be best to leave the comparison alone.

Additionally, in retrospect of that famous statement "you are either with us or against us" I find it the same when I hear "If you don't vote for Obama you are racist and if you don't vote for Hillary you are chauvinistic".

One thing I would like to add. This is one time the US has someone who is not white that does have a great chance of becoming president and watching and listening to the support he has received from movie stars, politicians, and wealthy people all who are white and mind you the most important of that group, the Middle Class!

It reminds me of stories my dad had told me of him marching with the civil rights marchers, the famous people who virtually did put their neck on the line doing so, white college students who basically had to fist fight with KKK men - all who seem to be written out of most of this part of history for the most part.

I hear so much how America is so bad yet even though I am not a hard line Obama supporter, I have to say I am proud to see how far he has come. Sure, he does have a lot of work to do, as I tried to say yesterday but can anyone really say with confidence the as one of the world's most mixed countries (I believe the US stands at about fifth) that it could happen there?

"Bush has a 30% approval rating in his own country..."

He therefore polls higher, maybe twice as high, as our Dem-controlled Congress.

Truman polled as low as 22 percent. American historians regard him much more highly than did the press corps of his day.

"the entire world thinks he is the worst president ever."

Africa (getting far, far more aid from America than from Europe) and India (world's most populous democracy) certainly don't.

Don't they count in your world?

It would be far more accurate to say that the Left worldwide regards Bush as the worst president ever. But then, for the perpetually aggrieved, defeated and discredited Left every Republican president is the "worst ever."

"In fact, he has done more to foster division than any other leader in the free world."

LOL. Who keeps the "free world" free?

Canada? The UK? New Zealand? Japan?

America is still basically a salad bowl and notions about it being a mixed integrated society is a pipe dream. Most neighborhoods are still largely racially determine, and non whites that you see in positions of influence have had to be 10 times better than their white counterpart. Just about every aspect of American life boils down to race, where blacks are invariably viewed with suspicion and have had to prove themselves in every sphere to gain acceptance. Barrack has had to do the same thing in the face of those whose task is simply to focus on anything they find that is not perfect about this man, a rather disingenuous notion when the aim should be about character and substance in policies. Bush has gone from an alcoholic to the white house a history that would not be tolerated in a non white candidate.

the Left worldwide regards Bush as the worst president ever. But then, for the perpetually aggrieved, defeated and discredited Left every Republican president is the "worst ever."

good point.

LOL. Who keeps the "free world" free?

Bwahahahahahahaha! Certainly not that moron Dubya. He and his bosses, (Rummy and Dick, 'I'll blow your face off' Cheney), have done their best to remove the rights of their own people and tried to keep them in terrified subservience to the GOP ever since they perpetrated 9/11. Yeah, we ALL know they instigated the war on terror with that wee blast and have ridden the shockwaves ever since. Time to topple the barstewards and get a human into the Whitehouse again. So Mr. Obama is young and not that experienced. You might also say that he isn't as cynical or corrupt as these old timer scum who were never qualified for office anyway. (What qualification has Dubya got for the job? He's an idiot for gawd's sake! He couldn't even run a company except into the ground!). What degree qualifies you for the presidency? Politicians can get to the top simply by knowing the right people and being rich enough to buy there way into the prime spot.

I am not all for Obama, it is just that he represents the best candidate in the current field. The person I believe we can most rely on to deliver a Government that is not beholden to special interest. A man who recognizes the embarrassment and manifold inequities that is contained in the current health care system and has a plan to fundamentally reform it - to restore balance. A man who sees the futility of the current policies in Iraq and towards the Middle East in general and vows to exact change. A man who has encouraged millions of young voters to get involve in a process that they normally treat with indifference. The Republicans in the past have produced some great leaders and so has the Democrats

"America is still basically a salad bowl and notions about it being a mixed integrated society is a pipe dream."

You obviously don't live there.

Ever even visited?

super delegate - You are funny! The reality is that I have spend too much time there. There are entire neighborhoods where you have to spot the white person and vise versa.

<strong>Moderator: All readers, back on topic please.</strong>

everton: We are crashing again. I for one would never claim it being a mixed integrated society. However there are people like me and many of my family that are just of that! Yes, most neighborhoods are still largely racially sectored, however, I would also claim it a pipe dream that "non whites that you see in positions of influence have had to be 10 times better than their white counterpart.: You would have a lot of proving to do. Just about every aspect of American life boils down to race," Yes and guess what, that's a good thing. If it weren't things would a lot worse.

where blacks are invariably viewed with suspicion" You are being one sided, it ain't all whites fault. Giving you the reasons would be off topic, but I Obama has at least touched on that issue, not enough, but a bit and there are legitimate concerns.

and have had to prove themselves in every sphere to gain acceptance." And what's wrong with that? So has everyone else, you are only looking at it black and white.

Barrack has had to do the same thing" differ again. The Japan Times ran a good article on Obama's career as a lawyer. If anything, he was lack luster - but that is not his fault, more the firms I would say.

Bush has gone from an alcoholic to the white house a history that would not be tolerated in a non white candidate." Man, you are out of your mind, have you ever heard of Marion Barry? or Kilpatrick. Even the new Governor of NY has issued with drugs.. c'mon get off it.

It is people like you that have a many concerned. Throw anything at you and racism is the only answer. What's next with you? 68% of black kids can't swim because of racism? People like you need not to back Obama. You hurt him more than you think.

everton > "There are entire neighborhoods where you have to spot the white person and vise versa."

And that never happens in other countries, does it?

Rather telling that Obama, with diplomas from the most exclusive high school in Hawaii and from Harvard, should have chosen to live in one of those neighborhoods, where he achieved almost nothing as a "community organizer."

A cynic might say his moves were even more calculated than Hillary ("I've always been a Yankees fan") and her move to New York to run for the office of senator.

You might counter that Bush did something the same in Texas but he entered the far more competitive private sector first, then won election to the office of governor - a much more traditional route to the WH - before accepting his party's nomination.

skipthesong-Why would things be a lot worse if race was removed from the equation? Ho! So the black man who works his ass off and makes it in life has to take responsibility for how whites see him because they have had a bad experience with a black person.

Man again you are a piece of work. That they have to prove themselves in every sphere is simply a statement that relates to double standards,simply, whites are not held to the same standard, there is an assumption that they are better even it they are not. And Marion Barry and others were provisional leaders, the Presidency is a different league, the scrutiny is purported to be more intense.

You sir are typical of those who refuses to accept the reality of race being a factor in American life. You stick your head in the sand and hope that it will go away, or it is not happening and brand everyone who raises the issue as reductionist. Black kids can swim if given the opportunity - they don't in greater numbers because they generally have very little access to the culture of swimming and the facilities.

Where did I say remove race? And pinning me as something typical is further proof of you negative attitude much less knowing who and what you are talking to. What I meant, was if race was removed, given the status of it now in the US would bottle up feelings which would eventlually explode.

And you know damn well there are double standards that go very counter to your belief's.. But again, that would take this off topic.

Can any posters give me proof of Everton's statement: assumption that they are better even it they are not" Where did I, or anyone here say anything as such?

Black kids can swim if given the opportunity - they don't in greater numbers because they generally have very little access to the culture of swimming and the facilities." Ah, so it racism! I lived in an inner city and we had beaches too.. show me an inner city that doesn't have a pool, and I have lived in the biggest three.

It really is you that is typical of those who refuse to accept realities instead making excuses. Here's proof: "Marion Barry and others were provisional leaders, the Presidency is a different league, the scrutiny is purported to be more intense."

everton > "You sir are typical of those who refuses to accept the reality of race being a factor in American life."

Hilarious assertion, coming as it does from someone who'd probably tell us Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell "aren't really black."

everton asks others to be rational, and then proposes that it's American conservatives here who promote identity politics and are therefore the one ones who assert that Sec of State Rice can not be both black and Republican?

You make me laugh.

Do you know anything about the history of the American political parties?

SezWho2:

You use the quotation out of context. It is very clear that Obama was saying that the United States was a great nation and it was great, in part, because the people have the power and the ability to determine what changes we need to make to improve our lives.

One of the changes that Obama wants to make is to make sure that our government works to the benefit of the American people and not to their detriment

Yes, whenever a conservative quotes Obama, they are routinely told by an Obama supporter that the quote is "out of context", followed by an explanation of The Great Orator "really meant".

But even by your own translation, he does want to change America from what made it great. The American government works for the benefit of the American people by doing only what the private sector can't or shouldn't do, then doing what it does efficiently. Is there anything from Barack's uncompleted first term as a U.S. Senator that suggests he will work in that direction?

rjd_jr:

WhiteHawk, those Black Americans are good choices but we're dealing here with Obama, he's the only Black person in the running in this tight democratic race, so that is the only choice. But what I am saying is that in this very weak presidential field, I would not want McCain the madman to be president.

But you'll take Obama the Inexperienced because of his skin color? You might want to consider issues and policies.

Also, as I've pointed out on another Obama/Clinton thread, Warren G. Harding was America's first black president. He had a black grandmother, and by the standards of the day that made him black.

Everton2:

Bush has a 30% approval rating in his own country, the entire world thinks he is the worst president ever.

While the U.S. Senate (which all three remaining candidates hail from) comes in at a whopping 11% rating. Would you like to know why?

In fact, he has done more to foster division than any other leader in the free world.

Really? I've always figured it was the tantrum-throwing left that started the division by claiming Bush stole the 2000 election. Remember, Bush didn't foster division as governor of Texas. Perhaps that's because he wasn't dealing with a Soros-funded team of left-wing activists.

The zenith came when Bush announced to the world after 9/11 that if you are not with us you are against us, is just the hight of belligerence. In this assertion he is virtually threatening the world.

As opposed to peaceful, unifying, you're-either-a-Muslim-or-you're-an-infidel-and-infidels-must-die Islamists which attacked Americans one time too many, eh?

skipthesong:

Additionally, in retrospect of that famous statement "you are either with us or against us" I find it the same when I hear "If you don't vote for Obama you are racist and if you don't vote for Hillary you are chauvinistic".

Great point!

super delegate:

It would be far more accurate to say that the Left worldwide regards Bush as the worst president ever. But then, for the perpetually aggrieved, defeated and discredited Left every Republican president is the "worst ever."

True. Also, The entire world under the age of 25 may think he is the worst president ever. Those of us a bit older remember a recklessly naive, catastrophically inept Jimmy Carter. To top that, you would have to go back to Woodrow Wilson or Andrew Jackson.

Everton2:

I am not all for Obama, it is just that he represents the best candidate in the current field.

Really? Why?

The person I believe we can most rely on to deliver a Government that is not beholden to special interest.

And is there anything from his uncompleted first term as a U.S. Senator that suggests that?

A man who recognizes the embarrassment and manifold inequities that is contained in the current health care system and has a plan to fundamentally reform it - to restore balance.

Restore balance? How, by making everyone suffer under the same government-bureaucracy healthcare system? This is the same person who -when confronted with the fact that increasing capital gains taxes hurts revenue and the economy- insisted he would still raise such taxes because it was "fair". Ah, the old socialist mantra: Everyone should be equally miserable.

A man who sees the futility of the current policies in Iraq and towards the Middle East in general and vows to exact change.

I'll say! From Audacity of Hope: "I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."

Of course, Obama has had to back down from his original campaign promises of surrendering Iraq to Iran, after his own advisors informed him of the logistical impossibility of his timetable. I wonder if any Obama supporters can spin that from "Obama's inexperience" to "Bush lied"...

super delegate:

Hilarious assertion, coming as it does from someone who'd probably tell us Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell "aren't really black."

And I don't think any of those people had a white mom...

Whitehawk:

Heh ... you'll be leaving a lot of those who view the world through barack-colored glasses crying in their pillows.

Welcome back.

RR

WhiteHawk,

You said, "Yes, whenever a conservative quotes Obama, they are routinely told by an Obama supporter that the quote is 'out of context', followed by an explanation of The Great Orator 'really meant'". I don't think we're talking about whenever. I think that we are talking about a specific instance and a specific time. As a critic of Obama, you are using his words to imply that he meant something far different from his intention.

I don't think I have said anything about Obama wanting to change America from what made it great. The greatness of America is not in the private sector or small government. The greatness of America lies in the fact that Americans can change their institutions, their methods and their policies. We actually have the freedom to do that. And there is absolutely no reason to believe that the policies and so on which made us great are sufficient to keep us great.

RR, thanks buddy. It's good to be back.

SezWho2:

I don't think we're talking about whenever. I think that we are talking about a specific instance and a specific time. As a critic of Obama, you are using his words to imply that he meant something far different from his intention.

Sorry, I wasn't directing that solely at you. It has just been my experience on a variety of discussion forums. The worst examples have been found on my local newspaper's website.

The greatness of America is not in the private sector or small government.

Yes it is. The greatness of America is in the freedom of its people to make their lives for themselves.

The greatness of America lies in the fact that Americans can change their institutions, their methods and their policies. We actually have the freedom to do that.

But both Clinton and Obama want to take that freedom away, by introducing yet more government intervention, regulation, and redistribution, all in the name of "fairness".

By the way, SW2, was Obama being quoted out of context when he said he wouldn't run for president in '08?

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/02/25/obama-2004-nah-i-cant-run-for-president-in-2008/

Here is a man with perhaps the most hated name in America, going up against the most famous woman in America and he is winning in all areas. Obama will win the nomination and go on to win the presidency.

WhiteHawk,

I think you're quibbling. I don't have any problem with your statement that the "greatness of America is in the freedom of its people to make their lives for themselves". Unlike you, however, I don't think that means that the greatness is in the private sector and in small government.

You seem to believe that Obama wants to restrict the private sector and to expand government and this means a loss of freedom for people to live their own lives. I don't agree. The private sector is already restricted. The question is not whether it is restricted or not but how it is restricted.

And government is already large. Homeland Security budgets and Pentagon budgets are monstrous. It is not whether we channel funds to social causes that makes big government. It is the total expansion of government that makes it big.

And no, Obama was not quoted out of context when he said he wouldn't run for president in '08. However, when as a criticism you quote him as saying so, he might well be. Stuff happens. Plans change. When I came to Japan almost 20 years ago I told my parents back in the States that I'd be in Japan for a few years and here I still am. Stuff happened. Plans changed. My parents have not complained of any damage. How has the change in Obama's plans damaged you?