Clinton salutes Obama as Democrats rip McCain at convention

Thank you, Senator Clinton!

Smartest move she ever made.

casting Clinton as a spoiler in an historic election, possibly damaging her long-term political ambitions."

She was the spoiler, no argument about that at all. Once Obama announced his plans to run, she should have stepped aside.

possibly damaging her long-term political ambitions." Well, let's all be thankful for at least one thing.

What I fail to understand are those HRC supporters saying they would rather vote for John than Barack. To me that sounds insane. Why can't they make it plain and simple that they just don't want to vote for a black candidate? The idealogies between red and blue are too different and the stakes too high. Get over it and put the country's interest first.

Professor,

I think a lot of the disaffected Hillary supporters are angry white women. But I don't necessarily believe that they have so far failed to unite behind Obama because he is black.

Obviously there is some of that--maybe even a lot--but it's difficult to quantify. I suspect, however, that at least as many just feel a powerful sense of disenfranchisement and are convinced that Hillary was robbed and that, by extension, they were too.

She's giving a great speach right now. < :-)

best line in the speech that I heard, bush and mccain are going to their convention in the Twin Cities as you cant really tell the two apart.

No democrat is going to make the Nader mistake of 2000 and allow four more years of george bush through mccain his twin. All those cynics and losers who claimed there was no difference between gore and bush back then have learned just how much difference there really was for the country. The difference between failure and success, between corruption and cooperation, between lies and truth.

zucronium- That is why they voted for Bush, even though Gore and Kerry tried to fix the voting. We are a success, McCain is storming ahead in the polls. Come on folks, join the McCain bandwagon, 4 more years of sensible policies.

what fox channel make believe world are you living on??

Amazing isnt it? Fiction trumps facts, lies distort truth, propaganda is the way of the republican party and its followers. Its a Rush Limbaugh world to many out there in reduced capacity land.

4 more years of sensible policies.

Now that`s funny!

Like Tatanka said on another thread, Hillary is just setting herself up for 2012. She knows Obama will probably lose to McCain.

sarge- almost correct,should say; She knows Obama WILL lose to McCain. Hee Hee!

Hillary is a good soldier, she will make the proper noises and dutifully endorse Obama. I dont think her heart is in it, though. She just wants the Democratic Party to help her pay off her campaign debts.

As for those who fail to support Obama doing so merely because he is half black, that is an absurd and completely baseless accusation. Perhaps the fact that he is a naif in terms of national service and experience comes into the situation. Obama's race works both for and against him. Do you think a white guy with 2 years' experience in federal politics and no leadership experience whatsoever would get where Obama is today?

Funny thing is, Half the people on JT who seem to have all the wisdom (or at least think they do) aren't even eligible to cast a vote.

the speech had great pace, talking trash on the GOP, but the repetitive "and elect Barak Obama for President!" phrase seemed to come at odd points of the speech. She still seems less than genuine about the support.

franknbeans: "Half the people on JT who seem to have all the wisdom (or at least think they do) aren't even eligible to cast a vote."

Well, you know, it's not really that funny on two points: 1) if we COULD vote you would never have losers like Bush in the first place. 2) and on that note, it sometimes take an outsider -- be it a third person looking at a couple's relationship, a Canadian watching an Olympic medal round of an event, or what have you -- to see things clearly and for what they are. The few remaining bushites clearly can't see the forest for the trees, and there are also many Dems who can only see a Democrat as a non-Republican. An outsider can occasionally assess the facts without the bias and internal conflict.

frankandbeads: Didn't get to finish my comment... what I wanted to say was that, therefore, it's not so much 'funny' that we have all the wisdom as it is a kind of given.

Don't get me wrong here. I am no Bush fan at all. In fact, I think the current crop is a sorry lot all around.

Caveat coming, can you hear it?

THAT being said, If Americans sat on this board and spouted our opinions on Gordon Brown, or Nicolas Sarkozy, or John Howard you would tell us to get of our damn high horse and mind our own damn business. I simply can't understand where the feeling of entitlement comes from that allows any joe shmoe to espouse their opinions and argue a point while never looking in the mirror.

Just my 2 yen.

Besides, I get to vote, and that is all that counts.

There are only two kinds of people in America, Americans and Liberal Democrats.

Obama may have liberal Democrats in his hip pocket but he has his work cut out for him convincing Independents and Reagan Democrats that he moved over to the center all the way from the far left.

McCain on the other hand has only the problem of convincing die hard Republicans that he is conservative enough.

Its going to a close election again, but the Independents, Reagan Democrats and four to five million Hillary supporters are going to put McCain over the top.

If not big whoop, Hillary not getting the nod is already a victory in and of itself. Obama losing to McCain would be the cherry on top.

I think I am going to go with Bill Clinton. He said who would you rather vote for? Someone you totally disagree with but actually CAN do what he is promising or someone who you agree with who CANNOT do what he is promising. Hmmmmm. Now I wonder which is which?

"Clinton salutes Obama as Democrats rip McCain at convention"

She almost broke the second hardest glass ceiling.I was in tears. But she had to lose. Too white.

VOR,

Obama was never on the far left. But I'll have my work cut out for me convincing you of that.

Depends on your definition of "far left". But definitely on the far left of the US Senate. National Journal rated Obama as the most liberal of all senators, based on his voting record. I believe he also gets a 100% rating from the ACLU.

Sez - "Onama was never on the far left"

Pffft! The Obama-Biden ticket is perhaps the most liberal ticket in history.

DS - "I believe he also gets a 100% rating from the ACLU"

If that's true, and most likely it is, I rest my case.

sezwho: now now now, if you support the guy, at least don't be ashamed to call him a liberal. The leftwing Messiah has the support of the fringe element of the democratic party and black voters. The more normally conservative blue collar workers, hispanics and pant suit wearing gals are for the most part still firmly in Hillary's corner. Can Obama sell himself off as a centrist? Either you are part of the fringe or it is going to take folks like you to buy it hook line and sinker.

franknbeans: "THAT being said, If Americans sat on this board and spouted our opinions on Gordon Brown, or Nicolas Sarkozy, or John Howard you would tell us to get of our damn high horse and mind our own damn business. I simply can't understand where the feeling of entitlement comes from that allows any joe shmoe to espouse their opinions and argue a point while never looking in the mirror."

Show me someone who makes such comments (ie. 'you have no right to comment on Gordon Brown or his policies because you are AMERICAN!') and I'll show you a poster with no credibility. In other words, I haven't seen it happen much if at all, and usually only using sarcasm to show the silliness of another's posts which say such nonsense. In short, I think you're wrong; this is a site free for all to access, and anyone to comment. So, anyone has the right to comment on whatever they choose. The right to vote in US politics? nope. BUT, it IS our right to comment however we choose about the politics of ANY nation; the US in particular as it is still a country whose politics, for better or worse (the latter for the last 8 years at least), affect the rest of the world.

Clinton said exactly what I expected she would say. I mean really, did anyone think she was going to call for a coup?

And just think, after all of this campaigning, Obama is promising he'll FINALLY make a speech with substance and not purely rhetoric. Granted, he's said that before, but his time, he means it!

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN2527236520080825?feedType=RSS&feedName=politicsNews

"Democrats rip McCain"

Heh, if the Democrats want to rip McCain, they'll need a Texas-size chainsaw.

Smith,

I can respect that, and I eagerly wait for they day where any of the above mentioned leaders actually step up and do something that affects me where I can drop my 2 cents.

It just tickles me the range of opinions and the "my dad can beat up your dad" attitudes that so many poster have when their overall opinion means as much in the final process as these words I am typing will.

That is all. Personally, its not really worth devoting any more time to. I would rather sit in the iphone story and point out what an asinine purchase it is, and make someone have buyers remorse in real time than argue about opinions that are so media formed and hardwired that no matter what is discussed here will change nothing in the overall scheme of things.

G'Day.

VOR,

"Liberal" and "far left" are very different things. America as a whole is centrist and Obama is as different from Chairman Mao as I hope McCain is from General Franco.

It's not a matter of who I support. It's a matter of putting the lie to sloppy and pernicious use of language. Every President tends to the center.

Every President tends to the center.

I wish it were true, but when one party controls both the executive and legislative branches and god forbid either party gets a veto proof majority, whatever element of the party is in control dictates how far from center the government will stray. this could occur this year and if the electorate isn't paying attention, they may end up paying for it in other ways.

Well a love fest they may be promoting but a lot of Hillary's supporters are still unhappy. I think anyone who predicted a blowout victory for Obama is off base. This one will be as close as the last 2 elections and I can't tell you who will take it.

SezWho2:

Every president tends to be center.

Like Wilson?

:D

Great speach last night.

NO WAY, NO MCCAIN!! < :-)

Communist sympathiser Obama is saluted by infamous Hillary Clinton, the socialist who tried to make our health care a state run gulag.

McCain will brush off criticisms, he is a high class placid man, who will never anger whatever the provacation.

John McCain our next president, i salute you!!!

McCain is just like george bush. I wonder if John McCain has a grandfather who was a traitor who helped out Hitler?

After the above post, I just had to ask.

Justify Communist sympathiser. < :-)

WhiteHawk,

Yes, like Wilson. His far left leanings were...? Examples, please.

VOR,

Your wish is granted.

What you say about control has some truth to it, but you should remember if the executive and legislative get lined up, they will reflect the will of the American people. And the American people remain centrist.

adaydream; Obama went to Europe and was greeted with open arms by Communist leaders. He never once backed away from them, he never critised heir human rights record.

The only leader he was not so close and friendly with, was Prime Minister Gordon Brown. Brown would not endorse Obama, out of Loyalty to Bush and McCain.

Bush has no reponsibility for his grnadfather.He has served his country with distinction through a war.

The Democrats are having a fine Convention thus far.

Day 1, Michelle Obama lets us know her husband is a regular guy. Check. Added plus: those two kids got their daddy about 4 million votes.

Day 2, Clinton backs Obama --> party unified under Obama's leadership Check Start McCain equals Mc Bush. Check

Tonight, Day 3

National Security. Here I bet the dems, as usual, punt.

SezWho2, he increased federal regulation and taxation, promoted labor unions, nationalized the railroad industry (shades of Chavez), suppressed free speech during WWI, disparaged the rights of the individual, created the Committee on Public Information intimidation and propaganda machine, resurrected the Sedition Act, pushed the Espionage Act (which made it a crime to be critical of the draft), preceded Mussoulini and Hitler with the War Industries Board, promised blacks support for their issues then failed to deliver...

Is this enough?

Just because Obama met Communist leaders means nothing. Did he go and start some negotiation bewtween the US and their country? Did he start some crappy banter between nations? What did he do that was wrong? He met them and shook hands.

Did he beat his chest and wave his little fists chastising other countries? He wasn't there for that and it would have been inappropriate.

John McCain wants to keep the war mantra and the US is the greatest superpower macho crap. That's just what we need, anothner george bush. < :-)

Hey, it happens. Some habits are tough to break, eh? ;)

But KT does have a point. Oabama will meet with anybody unconditionally... except John McCain, Fox News, and average American citizens.

That's just what we need, anothner george bush. < :-)

...and every other president except Nixon, Carter and Clinton.

WhiteHawk,

I don't think that is nearly enough. Wilson's Federal Reserve Board, for example, was basically a conservative plan put forward by Republicans. Wilson had to change aspects of the plan to satisfy the Cross of Gold folks in the Democratic party. I.e., he moved to the center.

Railroads were nationalized primarily because of the needs generated by World War 1 and because of widespread mismanagement by private carriers. This made it perilous to rely on them for the movement of troops, supplies and materiel. They were nationalized under an act of Congress and the nationalization was never intended to be permanent. This is as right-wing as it is left-wing.

We could discuss the other things you mentioned, but I doubt if I can overcome your determination to paint Wilson--who is usually described as a progressive, I believe--as a neo-Trotskyite. All Presidents have governed from the center. Perhaps you think Wilson leaned too much to the left, but that does not mean he did not govern from the center.

It's interesting to note that Wilson won a greater percentage of the popular vote in 1916 than he did in 1912, although Roosevelt (who is usually described as dividing the Republican vote) probably drained some percentage away from him. In addition it's interesting to note the states he did not win in 1916--among them Oregon, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois and New York.

Bill Clinton gave a speech in Denver that gave me goosebumps, just from reading it. Here are some pretty moving words:

Look at the example the republicans have set: American workers have given us consistently rising productivity. They've worked harder and produced more. What did they get in return? Declining wages, less than ¼ as many new jobs as in the previous eight years, smaller health care and pension benefits, rising poverty and the biggest increase in income inequality since the 1920s. American families by the millions are struggling with soaring health care costs and declining coverage. I will never forget the parents of children with autism and other severe conditions who told me on the campaign trail that they couldn't afford health care and couldn't qualify their kids for Medicaid unless they quit work or got a divorce. Are these the family values the republicans are so proud of? What about the military families pushed to the breaking point by unprecedented multiple deployments? What about the assault on science and the defense of torture? What about the war on unions and the unlimited favors for the well connected? What about Katrina and cronyism?

America can do better than that. And Barack Obama will.

But first we have to elect him.

BAM!

Now there was some truth for you.

Taka

It was a grand speech from Clinton. It makes you forget he was ever impeached! I always felt Clinton governed too much from the center. And Gore would have done the same thing really. But I believe america is ready for something different.

SezWho2, I expected a better response from you than that.

This is as right-wing as it is left-wing.

No, right-wing hires contractors. Left-wing nationalizes. Doesn't matter if it was for war, or that it wasn't permanent (the next administration would've ended it anyway).

We could discuss the other things you mentioned

Well, one of us can.

Wilson governed from the left and made concessions to the center. It's documented history.

WhiteHawk,

Sorry to dash your expectations, old chap, but Wilson is a little bit off topic for this article.

Your statement that the the right-wing hires contractors and the left-wing nationalizes is a gross generalization that betrays your political prejudices. In point of fact, practical politicians will do whatever works at the time--as Lincoln observed when he suspended habeas corpus.

If it pleases you to conceive of Wilson as a "leftist", be my guest. He was a relatively popular President who was endorsed by the public. If you are willing to stipulate that the American public was, at that time, "leftist", then we will have no future problems.

I agree with WhiteHawk;

Obama will nationalise health care and any other private service he fencies. This will lead to unionising many services. The country will become like Europe, strikes all the time, zero economic growth and millions dragged into poverty.

Don`t believe me? Then vote for Obama, and see!!

Bilderberg666,

In other words, we'll continue in the direction we're heading?

SezWho2-

You cannot spin your way out of this argument.

The US economy is doing fine, it has been managed well, and is the only western nation with positive growth forcasted.

We have balmost removed terrorists from Iraq and Afghanistan, id say weve done mighty fine.

Obama has lost, Dems can rip into McCain as much as they like, but mny Clinton supporters will not vote for Obama. Which party is racist to minorities?

Bilderberg666,

I don't have to spin my way out of this argument. You don't have an argument. You have a fictional mantra.