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Clinton: Trump could bankrupt America like his companies

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By DAVID EGGERT

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This is interesting, is Clinton going to run on a platform of budget balancing "austerity"?

I pray for a little fiscal rectitude, somewhere.

Clinton, pointing to the nearing end of the Democratic primary, applauded Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders and his supporters for “challenging us.”

Heh, sounds like a plea for them to please stop beating her.

I'm not sure how Clinton can beat Trump if she can't even polish off Sanders. Trump should be easier to beat. Few gave Trump a chance and yet he's already the nominee for the Republicans from a big field, and meanwhile Clinton with all her pedigree can't get rid of Bernie.

Maybe Bernie would be a better candidate than Clinton?

10 ( +13 / -3 )

since Trump will initiate a 25% fee on all remittances sent to Mexico.

Trade wars cause investors to lose confidence in the market, and stop investing. When investors stop investing, the economy tanks. Economics 101.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Thanks to so much hysterical political rhetoric, it seems like half the people in America intensely hate the other half. One of these days I expect to hear booming sounds in Charleston harbor as the cannons open up on Fort. Sumter.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

But Mr.Trump himself has never been bankrupted, brilliant eh ? He is even more richer than ever, right ?

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Um, by unionizing it.

Ha ha! Good one, Kabuki - you're a genius! Leverage a property to the hilt and then start sucking out as much as possible from it before the plasterers have even been paid so when it goes bankrupt, they get stuck with the bill - and then blame unions! Your reason must be why the most heavily unionized city in America, Las Vegas, is such a barren desert.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Refuse to build the wall

They tried building a smaller version of the wall under GWB (Obama and and Clinton as senators signed on) and it could not be done. The wall cannot be built. And even if they do (which it won't) it just means more business for ladders and shovels. Some conservatives like to claim that millions of Mexicans are just flowing into the USA regularly and stealing the jobs of the important white people. They can think that and even if it were true (it's not) the wall would not change anything (...again even IF it could be built, which it cannot be)

Running a country and (Trump's) running a business (into the ground) are two different things. Trump does not understand how government runs and his (in)effective experience of running a company is not compatible with what is required to running big government.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

That baseless guilt argument But it happened. Poor defenseless American Indians getting screwed over again for the white man desires.

That depends, if the fence is electrified Won't work Genius. A 2000-mile electrified fence? That's what fiberglass ladders are for. Utility workers use these and they work great in those dangerous situations to avoid electrocution. Looks like Werner is going to have some great new business in Mexico for their fiberglass ladders.

the border guards use lethal force OK so you want the border guards shoot to kill just for jumping the border. Desperate poor single Central American mother with her child and the child gets greased by a sniper bullet.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Hillary needs to worry more about her email hacker plea bargaining with the FBI than Trump. Even the Washington Post acknowledges that he is a tightwad.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/12/29/donald-trump-is-running-the-most-cost-effective-presidential-campaign-in-modern-history/

Donald Trump is running the most cost-effective presidential campaign in modern history

2 ( +9 / -7 )

can't wait for his trillion $$$ wall then mexico refuses to pay.

however I think he'd just slide it under rug if he gets elected, its pure madness, the fact it can fool so many people is the biggest sad story in the 21st century.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

The US government can't be run like an investment company.

In investment company, CEO gets investors to risk money into investment. If investment succeeds, everybody earns money. If investment fails, investors who took the risk stand to lose most money. But CEO can renegotiate debt (e.g. Chapter 11 Bankruptcy) and instead of paying 100% of debt, only pays back a portion of it. That's why CEO loves debt because he knows he can make a deal out of it, while in the meantime gets to use all of that money and while the investors take most of the risk.

But US government can't do that. Nobody would invest in US bonds (considered one of the safest investments in the world) and thus lend US money. Interest rates would skyrocket thru the roof. Investors such as retirement funds would not get most of their money back. So can't run it like that.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

that's because both Obama and Bush NEVER intended to build a wall OK, I get it. You are for displacing American Indians (again). Old white conservatives are cruel.

We have a president that ran the country into the ground. Not true since Obama could win a third term.

"It will" meaning! Trump is serious about this, with a wall Yes, and so are Mexican hardware stores about the ladder (it's good for ladder and shovel sales). Take your pick- climb or dig.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

But Mr.Trump himself has never been bankrupted, brilliant eh ? He is even more richer than ever, right ? yep managed to bankrupt numerous companies all the while keeping his personal wealth intact and growing. you could label him a fiscal genius or morally bankrupt, take your pick.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

The honest response would be that it's due to decades of democrat rule. Republican Mississippi? Republican Louisiana? Democrat California (which could be its own country and home to the world's smartest industries and companies)? Nice cherry picking.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

As a veteran of "business English" teaching, I have grown to despise the word - there are engineers, marketers, planners, logisticians, entrepreneurs - but there are no "businessmen" (my company required me to use the same Oxford textbook for each class regardless, as if an engineer needed instruction on how to catch a trolley to his flat).

Trump is a marketer. He has created nothing except for his own name (which itself is false). That's not a bad thing - I wish I had his ability to churn out bucks out of nothing - yet that is what he is: a marketer. Proof of this comes from Silicon Valley, where people do actually create things and where the Dem/GOP divide has until recently been somewhat equal. They are not keen on Trump, apparently.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-silicon-valley-20160524-snap-htmlstory.html

2 ( +3 / -1 )

But Mr.Trump himself has never been bankrupted, brilliant eh ? He is even more richer than ever, right ?

Bankruptcy is a legal state, maybe what Clinton meant was "financially insolvent." You could make a case that the United States is already financially insolvent (does not have the money to pay debt).

In his earlier bankruptcy Donald Trump was personally liable for his debts. Was he financially insolvent? -Yes, he could not personally pay his debts at the contracted conditions. He went thru bankruptcy to renegotiate said debt and I believe some debt was forgiven at the time (debtors had to take a haircut).

A bankruptcy for the US would be very good and force the US to reconsider spending and debt. The US also has a "black budget" that is not publicly available and is not stated on standard congressional budget. Bankruptcy would help fix US debt and corruption.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

...or boats. Via the Pacific or the Gulf of Mexico. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Seriously, this whole "wall" thing demonstrates conclusively the stupidity of a large segment of the American people. Want to stop illegal immigration? - impose large fines and possible jail terms on those who hire them. That is the only way. Obama has had some success in this area, which is one reason why illegal immigration is at historic lows, but something tells me Trump, guilty of knowingly hiring illegal immigrants, would not be so keen on holding his counterparts responsible.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

and bullets. OK, so Trump calls for shooting children and defying the laws of physics by electrifying a concrete wall. Kicking the American Indians out (again) and killing children is Trump's cruel policy. OK so if anyone wants that they can vote for it.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

It beggars belief that a country with over 320 million people can only produce an election that pits Clinton against Trump.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@SimondB - I could not agree with you more.

@Louis Amsel - Do you have a source for the cost of the wall. I think your estimate is high. One issue I agree with Trump on is the immigration issue must be dealt with - in a manner that benefits the American citizenry, not the 1% or corporations.

It is an interesting article as the U.S. is bankrupt already. Forbes had an interesting article in January 2014 outlining that the U.S. has federal unfunded liabilities in excess of $127 Trillion. This is on top of our debt. The U.S. has approached the point where repayment of its liabilities is impossible (the U.S. is not the only country in this condition).

I do not see Trump as a suitable presidential candidate but he could not do worse than what U.S. previous presidents (of both political parties) have done.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

This article pretty much helps refocus on what is actually wrong with the Republican party and the fact Trump is pretty much the main man there.

http://time.com/4253747/the-party-of-reagan-is-no-more/

Both parties have fallen victim to this TBH. Politicians follow the money, and subject themselves to the corporate whip which eventually will lead to our downfall. But their way of thinking these days is, "We'll live like kings until the well runs dry!"

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The New York Times is owned by Carlos Slim -- if Mr. Trump is elected, Carlos will lose billions--Slim is the largest retailer Mexico--since Trump will initiate a 25% fee on all remittances sent to Mexico. The wall will be built and one way or another, Mexico or US companies that moved to Mexico (putting Americans out of work) will pay for it...

0 ( +3 / -3 )

She could have instead asked the Detroit crowd "how can anybody lose money running an automobile factory. really?"

She could have but didn't as it would have revealed ignorance of manufacturing technology - the shift of energy from coal to gas, of materials from steel to carbon fibers, of transportation from boat/rail to a more diverse network. In addition to the incredible complexities of running an automobile factory, there are non-stop technological changes that can outdate a production line in an instant an fickle consumer preferences requiring much more investment than simply swapping out slot machines or changing the decor.

Ask John DeLorean.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Laguna: Ask John DeLorean.

He had the vision but despite a cult following, utterly due to a successful film franchise years after the companies' bankruptcy, quality (or lack of) was the ultimate downfall of the DMC. A UK taxpayer sponsored catastrophe.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

That's because both Obama and Bush NEVER intended to build a wall. They were both open border people, Trump is not,

Also it's Trump's first job to make ppl build walls. He's got them for towers, now he wants to try a fence pattern.

he has businesses that failed in the past - leaving someone else to pick up the tab

Yep, he ruins his associates. The GOP will be, well already is, his first victim in politics. Plus he has a second job, which his ruining his customers (the goal of a casino, and of some of his other projects like the Trump school). OK, fools ask to be robbed, but they are still victims.

could “bankrupt America like he’s bankrupted his companies.”

Then, he could do a reality show to cover the losses.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

What on Earth are you talking about? California used to have the 7th largest economy Is it No. 8 now? Japan recently became no 3 (down from no.2). So?

And with the National guard in place in addition to the Border patrol agents, they'll be waiting with cuffs, razor guns and bullets. OK, so you want snipers ready to pick off desperate moms and their kids. Your policy of displacing What if some little boy or girl jumps the fence and can't understand English. Your policy of shooting children like that is cruel (more then displacing Am. Indians). Also, how do you electrify a concrete fence? Which is it- a wall or a fence? Then take your pick...a ladder or shovel?

sanctuary city and all the homeless and illegals congregate there you can't even shop or take your family out without worrying that something could happen to them. Is this why you became Japanese and escaped California?

Moderator: Please stop bickering with other readers, especially bass4funk. You are doing it on too many threads.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

OK, but killing children and forcing the American Indians off their land? And an electrified concrete fence?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I'm in favor of people coming into this country legally. As far as the visas are concerned, if we need people they have--it's fine. Trump

See? Trump wants to replace white people with cheaper ones who don't complain as much and get the job done. His unrealistic wall idea is just a diversion while Trump himself sneaks in all these Mexicans to take away the white man's job.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Lies and exaggerations only work on the uninformed. Truth needs to be searched out in today's incredibly liberal media which tries to mold the minds of all.

-1 ( +11 / -12 )

The Tax Policy Center has this to say about Trump's fiscal policy:

His proposal would cut taxes at all income levels, although the largest benefits, in dollar and percentage terms, would go to the highest-income households. The plan would reduce federal revenues by $9.5 trillion over its first decade before accounting for added interest costs or considering macroeconomic feedback effects.

To be fair, Trump said recently that higher-income earners (the 1%) might have to accept a tax increase. Being quite Trumpian, it was immediately revised by spokesmen to indicate that the $2 trillion they'd score might be more like $1.5 trillion. Trumpian means a tax cut for the rich becomes a tax increase.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/analysis-donald-trumps-tax-plan

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Hillary needs to worry more about her email hacker plea bargaining with the FBI than Trump. Even the Washington Post acknowledges that he is a tightwad.

Pass . . .

And then you have the woman in the pantsuits selling lies and cover ups.

. . . the

Lies and exaggerations only work on the uninformed. Truth needs to be searched out in today's incredibly liberal media which tries to mold the minds of all.

Popcorn !

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

How long has it been since Clinton ran or worked for a company? Oh, wait, she never has. Yet she thinks that she has more business or economic experience than Trump? This is the wrong issue for her to be pursuing, because as bad as she makes Trump out to be, she is far less knowledgable than he is.

In the meantime, Clinton'r former campaign organizer, and now govern of Virginia, Terry McAuliffe, is being investigated by the FBI for accepting illegal contributions from a Chinese businessman. This same businessman has donated millions to the Clinton foundation. I also like Clinton slamming Wall Street, while at the same time accepting hundreds of thousands of dollars in speaking fees from Wall Street banks.

Trump may not be the solution to America's problems, but Hillary is certainly one of the main causes of these problems.

It is funny to see Bernie doing so well in the primaries. He is not doing well because he is a deft politician, or that his support is that strong, he is doing well because Hillary is a far weaker candidate than most people believe. Anyone here should listen to one of Hillary's campaign speeches on Youtube, and tell us what you think. Americans are not the brightest people in the world, but few of them would find anything Hillary said to sound sincere or believable, and I doubt few would be able to watch an entire Hillary speech without changing the channel, or looking for another video to watch.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Hillary may be getting 90% of the black vote, but she's getting only 33% of the white vote, whilst Trump is getting 57% of the white vote. What is wrong with this picture?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@nishikat I suggest you research CA's serious fiscal problems. You need a better example.

If Mississippi just falls off the globe like a loose puzzle piece nothing much will be missed economically. But if California does it means a whole lot of indispensable aerospace industry as well as such companies as Google and Apple down with it. It would ruin American if California floated away. My example is fine, thanks. To be fair, Texas has a conservative leadership now, but they are king on wind energy (they don't want to admit they are actually fighting global warning).

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

. hopefully they will lose the White House if the bickering between Clinton / Sanders continues. Popcorn anyone?

Yesterday I ran into an old surfing buddy while I was in town and ended up having a very enjoyable conversation with him. This guy is a riot, a full on Social Justice Warrior, anti GMO, anti big bank, anti big Pharma and a solid Bernie Sanders fanatic. As soon as we sat down with a couple of cold beers he starts getting agitated and yelling "Look at this! Look at this!" So he whips out his phone and brings up the New York Post article about Hillary getting payed $21 mil in speaking fees from the likes of Goldman Sachs. Morgan Stanley. Deutsche Bank. Kohlberg Kravis Roberts. UBS Wealth Management between 2013 and 2015. This guy was wild, he went on and on and called Hillary just about every name in the book. As we were parting ways he got in one last stab at Hillary "I'd never vote for Hillary, I'd vote for Trump before I'd vote for %#+@*^@ (her)"

Apparently this guy's ideological cohort are all worked up over this news, and it sounds like they are royally pissed. So yep, the convention could get messy if this story finds its legs and the Sanders folks remain true to form. Could be entertaining.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

GNew Jersey created Atlantic City and Trump, Caesars ''Palace etch created Casinos. and speculation did not work and they were bankrupted of New Jersey business. Casino owners expanded in SE Asia and so good that Las Vegas stopped to call it World's gambling Capitol City. Trump now has Trump Hotel on Vegas Strip. His business employ all sort of people and not discriminatory. When Sanders supporter made mini terror scene,, Thump did not do anything but he gained Trump supporters in Nevada.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I don't really even see what Trump has done inappropriate besides leverage too much debt which he has learned from. Chapter 11 is how you reshape and restructure a company that has problems. It’s the place you go to keep a business in a struggling industry alive and well. If it’s operating and it’s got cash flow and income, it may not be able to pay back every cent but stakeholders obviously decided they are better off in the long run with Trump's name than with an empty casino sitting on Atlantic city boardwalk.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

His unrealistic wall idea is just a diversion while Trump himself sneaks in all these Mexicans to take away the white man's job.

Liberals try so, so very hard. We will always need cheap labor, most countries do, but we are the only ones that have an open door. It's time to close it and scrutinize everyone that comes in and make it as difficult as we possibly can to block illegals from coming into this country.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The Democratic National Committee announced a 15-member platform drafting committee, the first step in that process, which will put together the first draft of platform.

The panel will be led by Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md., who endorsed Clinton, and include Sanders’ allies such as Rep. Keith Ellison, D-Minn., civil rights leader Dr. Cornel West and environmental activist Bill McKibben.

By contrast, the Trump camp claimed they could punch more guys in the face and have a riot to prove how stupid being politically correct is.

One party of diverse ideas discussing a public platform.

Then there's Trump, selling the Presidency for guns and threats.

-2 ( +10 / -12 )

@SimondB Well, if he really wanted the wall to be paid for by mexico, they would be foolish not to do it.

If you are making, lets say for example, 100 million dollars in revenue per year from the US as mexico, and the wall costed 250 million, and the options are:

1) build the wall and maintain that level of revenue (or more) and recoup the loss in under 3 years vs

2) Refuse to build the wall and drop that revenue to 30 million a year after all the tariffs and taxes you have to pay for refusing

Any first year math student would understand why Trump (as long as the people back him) can say this.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@nishikat I suggest you research CA's serious fiscal problems. You need a better example.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Clinton: Trump could bankrupt America like his companies

Why is she talking about Trump? She should be focused on B. Sanders. I heard the DNC might get a little messy -according to Sanders.

Heh. The Dems have lost the House and Senate . . . . hopefully they will lose the White House if the bickering between Clinton / Sanders continues. Popcorn anyone?

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

If you look at the picture of Hillary she is in front of an SEIU "union" group. This is the same group Obama used in his infamous beat-downs before he was elected. Acorn (now-defunct/defunded) was the other group. By far the SEIU was/is the more physically vicious of the two. Maybe the SEIU is planning Bernie beat-downs.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Why argue one party or the other, they both do the same bad things and who ever wins will continue to run the country into the ground. It goes for every country and their political system. They are both good friends of a proven war criminal they both enjoy the same elitist parties and associations and that's all there is to it.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

That depends, if the fence is electrified Won't work Genius. A 2000-mile electrified fence? That's what fiberglass ladders are for.

And with the National guard in place in addition to the Border patrol agents, they'll be waiting with cuffs, razor guns and bullets.

the border guards use lethal force OK so you want the border guards shoot to kill just for jumping the border. Desperate poor single Central American mother with her child and the child gets greased by a sniper bullet.

If you break the law, Yes. I would expect them to do the same, if entered their country illegally as well.

California (which could be its own country and home to the world's smartest industries and companies)? Nice cherry picking.

What on Earth are you talking about? California used to have the 7th largest economy in the world until the Democrats destroyed it, I remember how the states was a bustling and shiny star and now the only place with ANY decency in that once great state is Orange County, the last refuge of orderly, cleanliness and not over saturated with BS PC!

But if California does it means a whole lot of indispensable aerospace industry as well as such companies as Google and Apple down with it.

Oh, please! What has the Aerospace industry done sine Obama's budget cuts? Ask anyone in Northern California how they feel about the tech geeks, you can't even buy a bachelor for under $2000 it's insane! They ruined the State to the point if you don't make over 200K a year it's not worth living there and at the same if you go down to SF you can't breath because the stench will drive you to insanity because it's a sanctuary city and all the homeless and illegals congregate there you can't even shop or take your family out without worrying that something could happen to them.

It would ruin American if California floated away.

As a Californian with the debt that my state has and with the progressives Liberals that poisoned it, floating away would be too good for it. It should float away from the rest of the US and should deal with its own whacked insanity issues.

Texas has a conservative leadership now, but they are king on wind energy (they don't want to admit they are actually fighting global warning).

The wonderful thing about Texas is, I never liked Austin,

Heh. The Dems have lost the House and Senate . . . . hopefully they will lose the White House if the bickering between Clinton / Sanders continues. Popcorn anyone?

The GOP won't in most likelihood lose the House, on the other hand the Senate might be tougher to Hold. But if it's any indicator, Dems usually never learn, they always tend to overreach and think they know everything and then they always need someone with more experience to bail them out of their mess.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Many people will vote, but not for the looney lame reasons liberals hope that stupid Americans will be falling for delusional rants from the left about the wall. Another reason for Trump's popularity because he takes the wall issue seriously as Obama took the Iraq war seriously and good on him!

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

“Ask yourself,” the likely Democratic nominee told thousands at the Service Employees International Union international convention in Detroit, “how can anybody lose money running a casino, really?”

Um, by unionizing it.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

@laguna, She could have instead asked the Detroit crowd "how can anybody lose money running an automobile factory. really?"

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

They tried building a smaller version of the wall under GWB (Obama and and Clinton as senators signed on) and it could not be done. The wall cannot be built.

That's because both Obama and Bush NEVER intended to build a wall. They were both open border people, Trump is not, that's the reason why he makes people nervous because for over 25 years that I can remember, this always a thorn in his side.

And even if they do (which it won't)

"It will" meaning! Trump is serious about this, with a wall, you have NO country. GO to Mexico and enter in illegally and watch what happens, they are extremely strict when it comes to immigration, but here is the thing, once a wall is built OR if not, if they triple the amount of border patrol agents along the border states which would help exceptionally.

it just means more business for ladders and shovels. Some conservatives like to claim that millions of Mexicans are just flowing into the USA regularly and stealing the jobs of the important white people. They can think that and even if it were true (it's not) the wall would not change anything (...again even IF it could be built, which it cannot be)

If you liberals want to think that, go ahead. You guys also said, the GOP wouldn't take back the House and the Senate, Trump will never make it past March of 2016. Keep hoping, it's the only thing that the Dems have left.

Running a country and (Trump's) running a business (into the ground) are two different things.

We have a president that ran the country into the ground. Trump is by all means not a perfect candidate, but at least he cares about the country, that's one of the main reasons for his allure and growing fan base.

Trump does not understand how government runs and his (in)effective experience of running a company is not compatible with what is required to running big government

Most of Washington doesn't understand how it's supposed to run, let alone how the people think and that's both parties.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Incredibly, Hillary is actually trailing Trump now in an average of national polls, with, get this, 1 out of 5 Sanders supporters saying they'll vote for Trump rather than Hillary if she gets the nomination.

But no worries, how can Hillary lose the Electoral College with California, New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Illinois and Florida locked up? Or are they... OMG!

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

She could ask Detroit how it has become the smoking crater that it currently is. The honest response would be that it's due to decades of democrat rule.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

that's because both Obama and Bush NEVER intended to build a wall OK, I get it. You are for displacing American Indians (again). Old white conservatives are cruel.

That baseless guilt argument will definitely not help liberals in this election.

We have a president that ran the country into the ground. And this November when he leaves on Air Force One for the last time, finally, the champagne bottles can pop!!

"It will" meaning! Trump is serious about this, with a wall Yes, and so are Mexican hardware stores about the ladder (it's good for ladder and shovel sales). Take your pick- climb or dig.

...or boats. Via the Pacific or the Gulf of Mexico. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Exactly, goes for the US determination to keep them out as well.

That depends, if the fence is electrified, the border guards use lethal force if they don't comply and if you put enough agents out there and the National guard, the treat of illegals will be greatly diminished, greatly.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

The panel will be led by Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md., who endorsed Clinton, and include Sanders’ allies such as Rep. Keith Ellison, D-Minn., civil rights leader Dr. Cornel West and environmental activist Bill McKibben.

Couldn't have picked a more partisan group.

By contrast, the Trump camp claimed they could punch more guys in the face and have a riot to prove how stupid being politically correct is.

And yet, compared to the Anti-Trump protesters, there are very few videos or reports to support these allegations.

One party of diverse ideas discussing a public platform.

That would be a first in 8 years.

Then there's Trump, selling the Presidency for guns and threats

And then you have the woman in the pantsuits selling lies and cover ups.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

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