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Clinton, Trump debate fiercely over taxes, race, terror

174 Comments
By JULIE PACE and JILL COLVIN

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Absolute disaster for Trump. I'm still slack-jawed over how awesomely bad he was. I have ESL students who debate better than he did. Specifics aside, I think his worst mistake was that he spoke in vague generalizations that frequently meandered into areas quite off-topic. This was of course unavoidable as he has zero knowledge of most any issue - and it showed. His joke about Clinton being off the campaign trail this week because she was preparing was all the more lame for that.

Altogether, it was a cringe-worthy performance from Trump (literally - I was cringing), the magnitude of which will only become more apparent as critics wage in. Trump hates to lose, and he hates to appear foolish, and he did both tonight. How will he respond? Will he even show for the next debate? Will he try to prepare this time?

The upshot is that anyone who still thinks Trump has the ability, knowledge or temperament to be President of the United States clearly has serious deficiencies in judgement.

14 ( +21 / -7 )

She won fairly convincingly for mine. More composed, knowledgeable, concise, and I actually thought she handled the big, blustering bozo quite comfortably.

Where she really exposed him though was on foreign policy and international relations. She showed the diplomatic leadership and nous that the international community requires of a US President. She spoke of allies, alliances and international responsibilities. Trump showed he has none of it. He is clearly used to getting what he wants in life, a winning at all costs mentality, and that is the big difference between a diplomat and a megalomaniacal billionaire. One is suited to running countries, other, corporations.

9 ( +14 / -5 )

Lester Holt was like a 3rd debater and alot tougher on Trump than Clinton

He was harder on Trump, but only in that he was repeating questions Trump hadn't answered. Hillary mostly answered his questions, so he didn't need to repeat them, other than in a few instances.

9 ( +14 / -5 )

Pretty even for me but I think DT has more spare ammo left (email, benghazi, the foundation etc). The 'trump is a racist, sexist bigot' rhetoric is old news, she has to look elsewhere imo

Respectfully, I don't think Clinton has even started in on Trump yet. The birther issue, sexism, and racism still have plenty of mileage. Not to mention Trump's attacks on veterans, Gold Star families, people with special needs, and, of course, Mexican-Americans in his characterization that immigrants to this nation, legal or otherwise, are thieves, rapists, and killers being "sent" to the US by the Mexican government.

And, of course, there's The Wall™ and Trump University fraud lawsuits and the unpaid back-taxes and unpaid wages his company owes at numerous properties across the United States.

Clinton has also barely even scratched the surface of Trump's numerous questionable ties to Russia and Vladimir Putin.

Oh, there's plenty for Clinton to chat with Trump about.

And then we've got the issue of Trump's proposed War on Muslim Americans to muddle through.

And we haven't even gotten to the salient truth that Trump has virtually nothing in terms of concrete, actionable ideas to address, fix, or otherwise acknowledge any of the above.

Yeah, there's still a lot of ground to cover, indeed.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

I have to admit that I haven't followed US politics for more than 30 years, not since I was in the States for graduate school, and I'm not really interested in Trump or Clinton. But I HAD to watch THIS debate. If I were voting, after watching this debate, it would have to be for Clinton. Trump is an embarrassment!

9 ( +9 / -0 )

What on earth was all that snorting Trump was doing? Looked like a kind of mini-seizure, or perhaps a bugle habit. Either way this man is clearly ill both physically and mentally.

The tax returns are going to sink him and rightly so.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Just watched this. I'd say Clinton got the better of it. She clearly knows her stuff a lot better than he does.

Also, she's just, well, more intelligent than him.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Game, set and match. Bravo, Mr. Trump. Well played, sir. . . .

Ignorance is bliss.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

The upshot is that anyone who still thinks Trump has the ability, knowledge or temperament to be President of the United States clearly has serious deficiencies in judgement.

Keep in mind the debate will change nothing for a vast majority of Trump supporters.

7 ( +12 / -5 )

Don't want no Trump, don't want no Hillary. Don't want no Abe, either.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

That was a debate? What I saw was Hillary cleaning the stage with an orange mop for ninety minutes. It has never been shinier!

7 ( +16 / -9 )

It's always nice to have these moments where the JT Republicans haven't been given their talking points yet, and obviously won't give their own opinion. But they'll be here in a bit.

The coverage on Fox News is utterly fascinating:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/09/26/trump-clinton-clash-at-fiery-first-debate-on-trade-tax-returns-temperament.html

The lead story on the site makes no mention of the birther fiasco. Then there are weasel statements like this:

Clinton, though, had a sharp exchange with Trump as she challenged him to release his tax returns, which Trump has said he can’t do because of an audit.

Just about every non-right media outlet follows that up by saying there is no legal reason why Trump can't release his taxes. If you leave that out, the casual reader never knows, and Trump sounds legitimate. And this is how this "news organization" ended the article:

the Republican primaries – during which the first-time candidate and debater vanquished 16 foes and dominated the stage over the roughly dozen early-season debates. That record rendered him a rival not to be underestimated by the Clinton camp, which spent days preparing the Democratic nominee in study and mock-debate sessions even while Trump was out campaigning last week.

Newt Gingrich was just on Hannity and, I swear, his exact words, "I thought Trump was very articulate. A very big win for him."

Isn't it crazy?

7 ( +11 / -4 )

Verdict is in, Trump was a quivering mess who seems to wilt under pressure. He was drinking water like Marco Rubio and constantly sniffing during the debate. At some points he looked like his head was going to explode. A very poor performance for loser Trump. Beaten by a woman with no stamina and beaten badly is hard to swallow.

As far as the poll impact, 5:38 is projecting a 5-6 point swing potentially for Clinton after the Trump failure tonight. Betting markets jumped 5-6 points for HRC during the debate and they tend to be very accurate for US Presidential elections. Clinton looked Presidential, Trump looked like your crazy Uncle who lives in the attic. Clinton could have annihilated Trump but she did not, Trump pretty much hung himself with his lies about the Iraq War and his racist birther movement lies as well. Next time she should just go for the kill, Trump really proved himself to be quite stupid tonight. He was a lot like Palin in her debate in 2008.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Hillary has quite a good grasp of the issues, and is wrong a lot.

Fact checking of the debate didn't find her to be wrong a lot.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Trump’s surrogates spun his performance as a victory, as well, though the candidate skipped a scheduled appearance at an after party and complained to reporters that his mic was “defective.”

There you go, Trump knows he lost huge. His mic was fine as it captured the 28 times he tried to interrupt HBR (as compared to her 3 times). He got walloped and he does not know what to do so is ducking interviews and appearances. He may be sick right now with all the waterworks going on during his debate. Winner Trump, more like Loser Trump. HBR has her weaknesses but wow, she made Trump look horrible tonight by just being normal. That did not happen in the primaries for Trump because Cruz makes anyone look good.

Clinton's 35-point win in the CNN post-debate poll is the 3rd largest margin ever, after Romney-Obama I and Clinton-Bush 92 townhall.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

A couple of intelligent people Im acquainted with who support neither main candidate called the debate about even.

That is not what legit polls and pundits of all stripes are indicating so far. It was a wipe out. Trump expectations were so low and somehow he underperformed them. HRC while not perfect did not have to be, she was solid and that is all she needed to do. Trump beat Trump. He is not capable of doing well in a debate that is one on one. He has nothing to offer and this format shows that clearly. He really is no better than Palin, meandering musings that make no sense whatsoever. Try and figure out the below, from a July 21, 2015 campaign rally in SC.

Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, okay, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, okay, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you're a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are (nuclear is powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what's going to happen and he was right — who would have thought?), but when you look at what's going on with the four prisoners — now it used to be three, now it’s four — but when it was three and even now, I would have said it's all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don't, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years — but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

The same people who believed that WMD were in Iraq, that deregulation of Wall Street was super smart, that bush would balance the budget with huge tax cuts for the rich are now saying that Trump won tonight. They live in a bubble of lies and spin. Sadly they have lost the ability to see truth or appreciate facts. When Clinton jumps back to a 4-5 point lead and keeps it going forward their tiny heads will spin.

I point this out but it does not matter to the lost losers of the right. This is why debating them is so easy. Like taking cake from a babe. They are proud of knowing nothing and being wrong all the time. It really is sad to see, but they have to live with themselves, no easy task one would imagine.

Fact is a year ago they were all saying Trump would fail, now of course they blindly cheer for him as he has become the nominee. No backbone at all, just like Cruz endorsing Trump after Trump said his Dad killed Kennedy. Pathetic.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Hillary did very well. Trump just stuck to his big wishy-washy statements interspersed with a few, 'I like blah blah city, I own buildings there.' As some reporters mentioned, it was Trump who looked more tired and flustered at the end, not Hillary. Hopefully she'll keep this momentum going until Nov 8.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

Of course I'm biased, but I thought Hillary did much, much better than Trump. He repeatedly dodged questions, she answered them clearly. He tried to avoid the fact that he hasn't released his tax returns, she acknowledged the mail issue. He was asked how he was going to bring back jobs to America, he answered 'by not letting them leave' (he never actually answered the original question).

She was poised, and a few times I watched her giving him enough rope that he hung himself.

This isn't going to change the average Trump voter's opinion one whit. But for anyone who has been undecided, this cannot help but bode well for Hillary. I'd be very surprised if she doesn't see a bump in polling after this.

And expect to hear Trump complaints about how the questioning was rigged against him, since the moderator (a republican) pushed at him a few times to answer questions he kept trying to dodge.

Speaking of that, the moderator did a very good job, dealing with two very strong-willed people.

6 ( +13 / -7 )

It was so one-sided, but that was to be expected.

And as soon as the debate finishes he talks about maybe or maybe not saying something bad about the Clintons. Typical. Talking about trying to divert the attention away from the policies and back to the insulting. Like a 5 year old who just lost a game (and then some).

6 ( +10 / -4 )

Norman Ornstein, a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, emailed me back. Trump, he said, “was angry, rambling, fidgety and often simply incoherent. His bar was to look even modestly like a president, in carriage and temperament, plus a very, very low bar on fundamental knowledge. He failed on them all.”

From the leader of the American Enterprise Institute even. By any measure Trump was eradicated. This may be the moment when it became clear he will never be President despite the closing of the poll numbers in the last month. Amazing that anyone would consider voting for such a defective person. He is a con artist and that is all. And not really a good one even at that.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Did anyone understand what Hillary Clinton meant when she said "Stop and frisk was unconstitutional because it was ineffective"? (NB: If I got the quotation wrong, please correct it.)

5 ( +6 / -1 )

She said, "Stop and frisk was found to be unconstitutional. And, in part, because it was ineffective." I agree that, although both statements are true (it was ruled unconstitutional, and most criminologists have found very slight impact on crime rates), the result/cause conjunction is out of place. She should have said, "And, in addition, it was ineffective." Her later reasoning supports this.

Also interesting is Trump's "law and order" schtick - well, more of a dog whistle, really. What he seems to be saying is that gun rights are sacred except for certain groups of people (wink, wink) who should be stopped and frisked, thus depriving certain groups both their rights under the Fourth Amendment against unreasonable searches and seizures as well as the Second Amendment (depending on local gun laws, of course).

She begins talking about this at the 2:37 mark here. http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/debate-fact-check-trump-wrong-stop-and-frisk-was-ruled-unconstitutional/

5 ( +9 / -4 )

No wonder our country has become the laughingstock of the world.

I wasn't aware that it has. Ask me again on November 9, and if Trump is declared winner I might agree with you.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

The polls are online polls. As we all know on this site, the right-wingers are out in full force to support Trump. Online polls are hardly accurate.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

If anyone thinks Trump won that debate, then that is definitely part of the problem! He appeals to the uneducated who can only think in simple terms. He kept up his 'It's a beautiful thing' line that almost makes you want to puke. Trump rambled on and on and I even felt a bit embarrassed for him at times. He looked out of his depth and still didn't answer with much substance. The fact that he has gotten as far as he has is really shocking and the GOP bigwigs must still be rolling their eyes, cringing, and wondering what the hell happened!

5 ( +9 / -4 )

CNN? Seriously?

Their poll was not an online poll like the others listed above. It was a poll of of people who watched the debate. So somewhat more serious.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Why does Trump keep sniffling? Some people say it's Zika. I don't know, but some people say, is all I'm saying.

Some speculation on why Trump did so poorly in the debate. It is what some people are saying.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I'm curious about the amount of anger he directed at Japan, of all countries. Looking back at Trump's usual reaction when he lashes out and whines about being treated "so bad." The anger and vitriol from him almost always comes on the heel of a perceived slight or a rejection of Trump in some form or other.

Which makes me wonder, are one or more of the many respected banks that will no longer do business with the man, based in Japan? It would certainly fit his pattern to date and explain why he is making this baffling assault on Japan based on a trade imbalance that hasn't existed for 20 years.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Was this a slip, a misreading of notes (I noticed she was looking down every other second) or the way she personally judges what is constitutional and what isn't. If the latter is true, and, as president, she is responsible for nominating Supreme Court justices, it makes me wonder what direction law will take in her administration.

Thank you for your concerns, Bill. Two points.

First, this was a debate - notes in a debate may be helpful to remind one of accurate statistics but not much else.

Second, considering the dumpster fire that was Trumps performance in the debate, quibbling over Clinton's single misuse of a clause connector might not be the best use of your time. As I mentioned above, Trump seems quite eager to deprive certain groups of both their rights under the Fourth Amendment as well as the Second Amendment. Remember, this was a debate, not a legal document. If you'd like to pursue this further, we can open up the debate again about the Second Amendment's clumsy, impenetrable use of those two subordinate phrases, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, ..."

5 ( +5 / -0 )

it's a choice between a poke in the eye or a kick in the nether region, rat or weed poison. What kind of choice is that in all honesty? Shame!!

This is ridiculous. On lying Trump lies 53% of the time, Clinton 13%. On scandals Clinton has not had to sign any consent decrees, Trump has. This goofy statement is the false equivalency argument. There is no way that Clinton is even close to Trump in terms of amoral, racist, illegal, illogical statements or actions. The comparing of them is laughable. And is only done to justify the lies of the Trump campaign and the fact that he is without doubt reprehensible. If you can convince people they are the same then Trump has a chance to win, that is the strategy. No Fortune 100 CEOs support Trump, the republican candidate. 100s of Ambassadors, many Republican, have endorsed Clinton. They all know that Trump is dangerous and Clinton is not. That is a fact. They are not the same at all. Trump is a outright con artist who has six bankruptcies under his belt. Clinton is a well know politician who has been vetted over 30 plus years.

Shame on you for thinking such balderdash.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Texas A&M AggieSEP. 27, 2016 - 08:37PM JST

Great debate last night. All across this nation, liberals are curled up in the fetal position in their safe places (which ought to be places in a safe) this morning after realizing the media exit polling shows Mr. Trump owned the night.

You wouldn't think that if it were such a decisive victory for Trump anyone would be saying that Clinton tore that thing off his head and wiped the floor with it, but that's the kind of thing I've been hearing. Odd that, isn't it.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

bass4funkSEP. 27, 2016 - 08:46PM JST

Hillary tried and tried to really get him, insulted the man in front of his family and Trump had every right to bodyslam her and hit her right back, but he didn't because he was thinking about Chelsea, now I know that was hard to do, but that goes to show, the man does have decent moral qualities and could easily restrain himself.

That must be some consolation for you, then.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Keep in mind the debate will change nothing for a vast majority of Trump supporters.

This was the take-away from some of the analysts as well. The Trumpsters have thrown their lot in with the man and nothing - even the admission by him that he hasn't paid income taxes in a while through loophole manipulation - will change that. he tried to make it a positive by saying "That makes me smart", but he also knows that sort of high stakes loophole manipulation is not the kind of thing that helps his campaign, ergo the refusal to release his income tax returns. Donald John Trump has always, is now, and always will be looking out for what's best for Donald John Trump. To expect him to consider even for a moment what's best for the United States of America is an exercise in fantasy.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I thought Holt was quite good. The format, with his back to the camera and in the shadows, was good. He tried to shepherd but did not interrupt except to (somewhat tolerantly) enforce the time rules. The only fact checking he did was by the way he phrased follow-up questions. I hope the moderators during the next debates are as successful.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

All of the polls I have seen say that Trump "won" the debate.

Depends, I guess, on where you go for your information. (Obviously not CNN.) Some posters in here clearly have the same tenuous grip on reality as Mr. Trump.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

The 'trump is a racist, sexist bigot' rhetoric is old news, she has to look elsewhere imo

Quite the opposite. Racists and sexists should be reminded daily of their choices. That's how change happens, not by giving a lecture and then moving on.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

BlacklabelSEP. 27, 2016 - 02:00PM JST

Also the fact that Bengazhi, Clinton Foundation and the details of the emails haven't even come up yet looks very good for Trump.

There wasn't anything about the Trump Foundation or Trump University, was there? He must be looking forward to discussing those in the next two debates.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

CNN Poll was 521 people, give me a break. How many people watched this anyway?

If you want data from more people you have to wait for the compilation. It's probably going to take at least a day for pollsters like Gallup or Reuters to come up with some credible figures. And even then it's hard to be certain how reliable they are with vaguely worded segments like "likely voters" or "registered voters" unless you break it down by party affiliation, region, age group, educational background, male/female, etc. The only relevant question, of course, is not who won, but did the debate change your mind about who you're going to vote for?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Ha. Even Stormfront supporters are calling it a Hillary win. http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/even-stormfront-thinks-hillary-clinton-won-the-debate-1787121521

Another question is what happens during the spin over the next few days. Most people who'd watched the first Gore/Bush debate called it in the former's favor until the meme of Gore sighing and rolling his eyes became all that mattered. Clinton was relatively gracious; Trump was a boor. His interrupting both Clinton and the moderator, red-faced yelling, lies, and condescension to Clinton herself (and women in general) and minorities all present perfect opportunities for memes. As does his sniffling. (Was he on coke?)

4 ( +5 / -1 )

What a choice. It's akin to choosing between a poke in the eye or a kick to the groin.

I'm honestly amazed at comments like this after that debate. I have to wonder if people making them actually watched it. He made some low blows, including a reference to some 'super secret scandal' the he wouldn't speak of. Then why mention it in the first place? She on the other hand didn't make any low blows about him or his family, with the exception of one quip about him not caring about the facts or something like that (something that has been proven true, and isn't just a random name calling).

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Another question is what happens during the spin over the next few days

Trump showed he has a low level understanding of issues and is clearly not presidential material. He was barely coherent in the latter parts of the questioning. Hillary showed she was vastly superior in knowledge in all aspects of the debate.

It's apparent the strains of campaigning are catching up with Trump, and it's time for his camp to be honest about his health problems. Is his poor health the reason he appeared to weaken as the questioning went on? He's over 70 and has long been overweight. Were the 'sniffles', as the right wing press called, them a sign of a serious ailment? How will the rightist media spin this and his refusal to show his tax info?

4 ( +6 / -2 )

NCIS Reruns, bring that up with the candidate. He uses it all the time.

Lets not forget that Trump bashed Japan again and again in the debate. If he becomes President many foreigners who work here will lose their jobs as trade is reversed and Trump attacks Japan over and over again as if we are still living the 1980s. Really, he is stuck in that decade, when he was in his prime (the whole greed is good era under Reagan). He was on his first wife then. Times were good for con men as we had one in the WH as well.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

@Bill Murphy

as president, she is responsible for nominating Supreme Court justices, it makes me wonder what direction law will take in her administration.

You have to be kidding me... Of all her problems, this is what you're worried about? Her exact words may have been technically incorrect, but any thinking person knows that something being unconstitutional because it's ineffective makes no damn sense. It's obvious she meant it was deemed unconstitutional and it was ineffective to boot.

If you want to nit-pick, take a look at the transcript of Trump's answers. You could just barely follow what he was saying if you're watching the debate, but seeing it in text shows how truly incoherent he really is. I admit, he got some good hits in about Clinton and TPP though.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Ten minutes into the thing, The Trumpster was drinking water and his face had turned as red as the clothes OUR NEXT PRESIDENT was wearing ! GO HILLARY ! ! ! 1/20/17 - "Madame President" !

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Trump and his fans aren't going anywhere, even after losing the debate. But it is pretty fun to tease them.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

bass4funkSEP. 28, 2016 - 07:21AM JST

More like, Trump had more decency, if it were me, I would have hammered, daughter or not.

So you don't have any decency? Says a lot about conservatives such as yourself. Not a great incentive to hold anything you write in high regard, really...

4 ( +4 / -0 )

That is true,Superlib, Trump could shoot and kill someone as be BRAGGED, and his followers would still vote for him which goes to show how blood thirsty and violent they are.

I disagree. It doesn't show how blood thirsty and violent they are, just mindless. They're so desperate for a change in government that they are willing to toss all common sense out the window. They're supporting a candidate who publicly requested Putin to hack our government servers. They're supporting a candidate who thinks a Presidential Debate is a place to continuously interrupt the opponent with detailed rebuttals like "Wrong!" They're supporting a candidate who have broken all records in falsehoods repeated even after fact checkers have called him out on it, yet they call his OPPONENT the dishonest one simply because that's one of Trump's talking points. I'd characterize them as lemmings, but that would be doing a dis-service to the innocent lemmings.

You know who's NOT a lemming? A Republican I respect. Former Republican President George HW Bush has the cojones to state he won't be voting for Trump and as such his only option is to vote for Clinton.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Trump's performance was bad. He again showed he is not Presidential. I believe Clinton would be declared the winner.

Lester Holt was like a 3rd debater and alot tougher on Trump than Clinton

Clinton denied saying TPP is the Gold Standard in trade deals. She did say it. If she changed her mind say so and say after seeing further details it is not the Gold Standard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpLQzeCoNnA

Trump made good points on NAFTA but was too rambling and was not well prepared.

Yeah I think Clinton won this one.

And Reckless - yes...Dr. Stein and Gary Johnson should have been there. They would have brought alot to the debate and I feel stronger about this after watching

3 ( +7 / -4 )

CNN, no poll as of yet.

Try turning on your TV. They broadcast their numbers over an hour ago.

CNN Post-Debate Poll Shows 62 Percent Of Audience Thought Clinton Won, Just 27 Percent Thought Trump Won http://mediamatters.org/video/2016/09/26/cnns-post-debate-poll-shows-overwhelming-victory-hillary-clinton/213345

3 ( +4 / -1 )

"That makes me smart.”

There you have it. Trump on not paying taxes. A man who is proud of breaking the law wants to be in the driver's seat of a nation he would drive off a cliff.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

@Blacklabel According to Gallup, party affiliation seems to be a fluid figure, but Republicans rarely exceed 28% of total voters. Here's a breakdown, based on regular tracking polls. I'd be interested to know how CNN picked their respondents.

www.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx

3 ( +3 / -0 )

How will the rightist media spin this and his refusal to show his tax info?

They'll try to spin it exactly as he did - that he'll release his info as soon as she releases her deleted emails.

But, that ignores two things:

1) Releasing his tax info is something done by all candidates, and not on some condition, but rather as part of running for president. And it's done in the interests of transparency to the people - by not doing so, he essentially confirms that he is hiding something, especially after she called him out exactly on that point.

2) He 'promised' he'd release them, but he's already shown himself to not be credible in that regard. Where is the $5 million he promised to donate to a charity of Obama's choice, after Obama proved he was American?

He has everything to lose by not releasing his tax returns (though maybe more if he does release them), and she has everything to gain by continuing to push the point. He had no response whatsoever to her pointing out that he was hiding something. And I think we all know it's because he is.

Unless he gets his game together, she's going to swing more and more undecided voters, and some of those who only have one-foot into his camp as well.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

@Outrider

I agree the questions are relevant, and don't get me wrong, I don't think she did especially great in the debate. I just think it's pretty clear what she meant in that particular case. And on the other side Trump is advocating nationwide stop-and-frisk... Clinton wasn't perfect, but she didn't have to be against Trump. I doubt his fans will see it that way though.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@bass4funk

Hillary tried and tried to really get him, insulted the man in front of his family and Trump had every right to bodyslam her and hit her right back

He tried and tried too. I felt like they were both held back by their shared weakness, dishonesty.

now I know that was hard to do, but that goes to show, the man does have decent moral qualities and could easily restrain himself.

He contemplated inviting Gennifer Flowers to sit in the audience...

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Trump's biggest weakness is he doesn't pay any tax and is proud of it; he also doesn't make any charitable donations. This is why he won't release his tax returns. He wants to spend more on the military, but he won't be paying anything towards it.

Trump is a freeloader who expects others to pay for everything. He's like someone who brings nothing to a party, drinks all the best wine, eats all the nicest food and then tells you you are fat and ugly on the way out.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

sfjp330,

" . . . [U]nder the law, [Trump] is entitled to many legal deductions. IRS audits his business regularly. Many business have legal deductions and they don't pay taxes. They play by the rule."

If it's all so routine and normal, then why is Trump so terrified of releasing his taxes?

Why is he hiding behind a lawyer who supposedly "advised" him to not release his tax forms, despite Trump assuring everyone in 2015 that he would release his taxes so "bigly"?

(Yes, I made up the part about Trump saying, "Bigly" back in 2015. He never said that. But he sure did use it last night -- twice. Its not a real word, BTW)

Why would a lawyer advise a presidential candidate to not release a document that has been an accepted practice for aspirants to the White House for half a century, unless the lawyer is trying to shield the client from liability? Is that what's at work? Fear of liability? Why? After all, as you would have it, it's just a routine tax return outlining routine business deductions, right?

So why the apprehension? Why the squirrelishness? Why the repeated claim that an audit prevents him from releasing the forms, despite the actual IRS assuring everyone that an audit does not prevent anyone from sharing their tax returns?

"What is your problem?"

Trump's refusal to release his tax returns isn't just my problem. It's America's.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Holt was too busy getting in on the debate when that wasn't his job to do.

What a load of ridiculous, fantastical hooey. Hold didn't "interrupt" Trump. Holt did his job as a "moderator"

That's what a moderators do. They moderate. Trump knew the rules at the start of the debate and he categorically ignored them in order to vent his spleen. And he ended up looking like a temperamental ass doing it. Don't pin Trump's epic face-plant on Holt, mics, or Clinton. Trump did it all on his own.

It's utterly fascinating to watch what happens with conservatives any time there is an outcome not to your liking: You turn on your own at the drop of a dime. You did it with the other GOP presidential candidates the instant it looked like Trump was going to be the Republican nominee. You did it with registered Republican and FBI Director James Comey when his department's investigation failed to confirm your conspiracy theories. And now you're turning on another registered Republican, Lester Holt, because he did his job and prevented Trump from turning the debate into one of his campaign rallies. Conservative are in such a state these days that many of you are only a stone's throw from eating your young.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

No, I want an end to the Washington elite thugs that have taken our country hostage and care only about remaining in power at all cost, damn the people, their rights, ethics and the constitution.

James Comey took our country hostage? Because he didn't prosecute based on Fox 'n friends' wishes? I didn't know that's the way a legal system worked. How exactly did Comey violate the people's rights and constitutional law? Inquiring minds want to know.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

A poll of Breitbart.com visitors on who won the debate:

76% Donald Trump 24% Hillary Clinton

Prep yourself for attacks on Lester Holt, and lots of anger that the emails didn't take center stage (like it does in their world).

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Bernie just tearing it up on Twitter tonight: https://twitter.com/BernieSanders?s=09

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Right. I posted twice that I was not going to watch the 'debate' because its not a debate (it's a Q&A), and no one will change their minds anyways.

I had a lot of work to do and came home late -- getting back about 45 minutes ago. My wife and some neighbors were watching the debate in my living room via Youtube. Now, while driving home, I heard some highlights and how Clinton seems to have done well according to two polls. And, ok, I admit it, I used my cell phone while driving. Solid outcome for HRC.

So, despite my resolve, I indeed ended up watching the last third of the 'debate.'

Here's what I think:

Nothing much will change. 'Objectively' HRC may have done better, but politics ain't about objectivity; its about interest. I could make a few jokes at Trump's expense, but that don't matter. HRC leaners and Trump leaners will be more than happy with what they saw.

BUT

Two things occurred to me.

The first was, Trump stuck me as a man who, if had chosen politics instead of promotion (if that were possible considering, well who he is, and that modern society, unlike, say 100 years ago, places few restrictions on the children of great privilege), would have been a reasonable candidate. By reasonable I don't mean I like him, or think him the right choice; I mean, unlike Palin, he can actually present his ideas, such as they are, in a coherent and persuasive manner. I like to joke that Palin was Trump 1.0 but tonight showed us that is not quite true or fair. It is clear from the 'debate' that Trump actually understands what he is up to. Palin is a just blithering idiot. Really.

Now, bear in mind I am strongly bullish on HRC's chances, and nothing I say will swing the election and so I don't need to continue to throw the guy an anvil, but that is what I think. I am actually surprised by my reaction. Oh well,

Second, Trump, IMO, really, really blew it with his over-extended 'defense' of his 'opposition' to the invasion of Iraq. Everyone knows his full of s#U* on this. He should have let it go after making his denial and left it at that. Instead, he went on and on, and bickered with the moderator, and just blew it. Then HRC came in and just nailed it. A very bad moment for Trump, and, in years to come the mediaites will possibly replay that three minutes and declare "That was the moment, bla bla bla"

Which is nonsense.

The moment Trump lost the election is when he failed to pivot from the primary to the general. It would have been tough, but we've seen how Republicans, in the hatred of all things Hillary and, y'know, the rest of America, always come home.

Trump should have focused on the leaners. He didn't because he thought his 'amazing' coup in taking control of the broken, racist, insane Republican base would work in the general. To his credit, he realized that ain't the case -- but it took him too long. Because, after all, Trump is not a politician.

He is a dope.

Other than that, HRC's power-red dress just blew Trump away/

2 ( +4 / -2 )

@Bill Murphy

And that in a climate in which people hang on ever word out of a candidate's mouth waiting for an opportunity to damn them.

Gaffes matter when the supposedly misspoken words can mean something else. The comment you're concerned with makes no sense on its own, and it's not difficult to discern what she meant. It's not even a big enough mistake to make assumptions attributing it to her health.

Why should I or anyone else care?

I'm not saying you shouldn't care. Just that you're point of focus might be way off. If something so insignificant bothers you about Clinton, I can only imagine what you think about her actual problems. (And no, her health isn't one of them. FDR had polio FFS.) I hope your critique of Trump is as severe, because he was pretty bad tonight. But then again he's been bad this whole time, and look where he is...

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Don's Deplorable's are a sad, sad lot. Its sad, but funny, and so easy to show how tragically devoid of truth and logic they really are. Remember, according to Trump:

"You've been fighting ISIS all your adult life." hmmm,,,interesting..

Taxes..."Believe me, they'd be squandered. "Yeah, so paying taxes for defense, road work, healthcare, and other public works are squandering money, says the billionaire who doesn't pay a red cent in taxes.

"The Cyber..My 10 year old son...The cyber its difficult..." Yeah, the cyber Donnie. One wonders how Don can work a cell phone. I've heard from reliable sources. Believe me, from reliable sources, that Don doesn't actually have opposable thumbs.

MakeAmericaGrate #DumpPrince2016
2 ( +3 / -1 )

Even Trump knows he lost the debate bigly.

He's already whining his mic was "crackly" and the volume supposedly lower than Clinton's - a laughable claim especially every time he talked over the top of her like a little woman in the kitchen. Oh, and obviously whining that a day later that the mod was "biased". What a loser.

We need an Ace Ventura noise here.

*L ehhooo

S eeeeeher.. * And better than that, Clinton will now be able to better prepare for the next conflict with the Republican maniac after seeing him in action....if he actually bothers to show up and get soundly thrashed again BY A GIRL.......

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Keep in mind the debate will change nothing for a vast majority of Trump supporters.

That is true,Superlib, Trump could shoot and kill someone as be BRAGGED, and his followers would still vote for him which goes to show how blood thirsty and violent they are.

BUT I wanted to explode on his head with all of his interruptions ( 40!!!!) and talking over HC that he was doing. Beyond rudeness. It is linguistic barbarism. He has no manners--I would insisted before the debate that the mikes would be cut off to prevent this.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

so a dozen people that work at cnn poll themselves and hillary, bought and paid for by the same people that own cnn,wins. no one really still believes a word that cnn says. all but a very few know cnn and other bought and paid for msm is broadcasting false news.

The difference between the CCN polls and others, was that it broke down the voters by political affiliation (which party they were registered to) and explicitly stated that the larger portion of democratic voters was likely to have swayed the poll numbers, and therefore likely to not be properly reflective of the voting populace.

This is what you call responsible reporting. They gave the numbers they had, and clearly defined the bias that may exist.

This is what you call responsible reporting.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Fred WallaceSEP. 28, 2016 - 08:53AM JST

"Trump fanatics are much more likely to be rushing every online poll they can find."

LOL that's a pretty huge stretch. I guess it's some grand conspiracy to place trump in better light. Jeez.

I personally don't find a huge stretch to imagine quite a lot of people all getting the idea of voting more than once in an online poll. Especially given the curious disconnect between the online polls and Trump's godawful performance, not to mention the media's response (including conservative commentators), polls that have been conducted since and the way the man himself is now bitching about what a raw deal he (supposedly) got.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

misunderstoodSEP. 28, 2016 - 12:32PM JST The democrats have done nothing but push the country backward race relations, racking up debt and not to mention human rights!

Why don't you ask your Republican leader George W. Bush Jr. for invasion of Iraq, the financial crisis and all the mess that Obama inherit in 2008. What is the justification of invasion of Iraq with Bush's friend Powell in the speech at United Nation about WMD? Where was WMD?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

He is working within the law. That is the law of U.S. and IRS confirms that.

Precisely. You and I couldn't agree more.

So why the reluctance to release the forms?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

If it's all so routine and normal, then why is Trump so terrified of releasing his taxes?

He admitted during the debate that he doesn't pay taxes. And he claimed it was smart. Sure, maybe it is for a businessman working for his only benefit, but it shows that he has little moral compass, and for people who get raped by income taxes, it looks really, really bad.

And it's likely that he probably has more scandals inside his tax returns that he doesn't want released.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Trump did exceptionally well for a first time candidate

Interrupted 51 times during the debate. Now that's presidential. (Reagan never did that.)

Trump did fall for the trap and ran down the rabbit hole when talking about his taxes and other non-pertinent points.

You mean it's not pertinent that Trump takes pride in paying no taxes ("I'm smart") while deriding the state of America's infrastructure? As a businessperson he must understand that roads do not pay for themselves. The man is abhorrently amoral, even by the standards of Washington. He is not Mr. Smith. How many times during the debate did he mention the properties he owns? This man lives for himself.

Lester Holt, a pretty good reporter, interrupted Trump about 47 times

That wasn't interrupting. That was trying to get Trump to answer the questions asked. Holt was dealing with a 12-year-old who kept going off topic.

I just hope the next debate Trump pounces on her about her emails, server and Benghazi.

About the server, yes, I agree that Clinton deserves more grilling than what Holt gave her. Benghazi? Come on. As much as I dislike and distrust Clinton, she is at least a passable candidate. Like it or not, government requires professionals, not egotistical populists with completely incoherent ideas.

Basically, Trump proved that he is not presidential material. If you can't hold it together for a 90-minute debate without blowing your top, you don't have the 'stamina' (his term). He offered absolutely no specific policy proposals in the entire debate (Clinton did many times). He is a spoiled brat with a personality disorder, and a LOSER. Replace that initial L for an H and Doug and Bob Mackenzie are your uncles.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

. He's past the test that he can hang with a seasoned politician like Hillary, she was calm, composed and she looked rested and pretty good, but I think he's learned from this, keep his hands up and go for a jab in the next debate,

You rightwingers have no standards in regards to debating--I have first year (ok, now they are second year students) who could have had a much more "presidential and rationale presence" than this kook, and they, my students would be doing this in the second language.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

just because Comey is part of the Washington establishment and wouldn't indict Hillary

So you don't trust the FBI because they are Washington establishment. Who would you prefer to handle investigations, a 12-year-old from the heartland?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Probably because she schooled him. She showed what it is to be presidential. He just blustered with the same non-presidential crap he's been spouting all along.

You know how people say he doesn't talk like a politician? It's because he's not qualified to be one.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I think another scandal was cutting out two legitimate 3rd party candidates with significant support, especially regarding environmental issues.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Wow, CNN fact checking shows Trump to pretty much have been full of lies right from start to finish: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/26/politics/fact-check-presidential-debate/

Did anyone understand what Hillary Clinton meant when she said "Stop and frisk was unconstitutional because it was ineffective"? (NB: If I got the quotation wrong, please correct it.)

The quotation is close enough.

Here's an article on the effectiveness of it: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/08/21/12-years-of-data-from-new-york-city-suggest-stop-and-frisk-wasnt-that-effective/

the ACLU accounting also points to other data that undermine the rationale for stop-and-frisk: It yielded few weapons when officials justified the policy as a way to reduce shootings and recover guns; in more than 5 million stops, police recovered a gun less than 0.02 percent of the time. And as the NYPD ramped up the number of stops, shootings and murders in the city did not appear to correspondingly decline: [chart]

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Another thing that blew my mind: Asked about race relations in the United States, Clinton gave a thoughtful answer that encompassed discrimination in terms of housing, education, employment, and treatment by the criminal justice system. Trump, on the other hand, immediately pounded on the need for "law and order" - that is, in his mind, "race relations" equals "crime by minorities" and nothing else.

By the way, the full debate transcript is here. 検索 "law and order" for their full remarks. This will save all of us much quoting. <http://fortune.com/2016/09/26/presidential-debate-transcript/ >

1 ( +6 / -5 )

SuperLibSep. 27, 2016 - 02:18PM JST

The 'trump is a racist, sexist bigot' rhetoric is old news, she has to look elsewhere imo

Quite the opposite. Racists and sexists should be reminded daily of their choices. That's how change happens, not by giving a lecture and then moving on.

Don't disagree with that superlib but it's not enough. Populists like Trump wear those tags as a badge of honor. Look at Le Pen, Farage, Hanson etc overseas, they have been labelled 'racists, bigots' etc for decades yet they and their party are still around stronger than ever. Even Trump came back with his 'how about your super predator comment' and it was over.

Imo Hillary was stronger when she exposed Trump as the bizman fraud he is: his only chance is to portray himself as working class America's choice and many of those guys have no issue with casual racism and the odd derogatory comment against women: she wont win their votes by calling him a racist. But when she said Trump hadn't paid federal taxes for ages or that he had been unethical with many of his clients, employees etc those were imo her strongest moments and where she can win votes, many votes. No one on $25-30k a year happily cast their vote for the rich guy who has been abusing them for decades.

Many (most?) Trump supporters are 'patriots'

1 ( +2 / -1 )

"...some people are saying" and its variants has got to be the least useful phrase in the English language.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I wonder how many of these people voted on the online polls: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqm5hmBHzl8

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Is there a medical emergency in Japan which I haven't heard about? Should I be worried? All the JT physicians who were diagnosing Clinton's health from their keyboards seem to be otherwise engaged tonight.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Well, you know what they say about a leopard.... so if you cant win them over, just insult them. Seems to get his supporters excited.

http://www.npr.org/2016/09/27/495611105/in-post-debate-interview-trump-again-criticizes-pageant-winners-weight

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Did Trump ever stop babbling within two minutes? They should just turn the mics off automatically and have a clock on the podium for both the audience and the candidate. And also turn the mics off when the other is speaking. Then have a section where they can go back and forth.

So much for the rules of the debate. Trump ignored them all. Talking over his opponent, interjections, can't wait his turn like a 5 year old

No country would listen to such a buffoon.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Why didn't they invite other candidates? Why just these two?

Because these two are the only ones with a possibility of being the next POTUS. All the other "candidates" are candidates only on paper.

Jill Stein would've destroyed Donald, Hillary, and even Gary.

Who? (checks Google) Oh. Her. Her platform seems to be, "I promise everything to everybody, and it won't cost a dime more than you're already paying!" Her platform planks are even more unbelievable than Trump's are! She failed as a presidential candidate in 2012 and will fail again this year. The American public is gullible (as evidenced by all the Trumpsters), but not THAT gullible!

What I liked best about the debate was when Trump tried to mock Clinton for taking time to prepare for the debate and Clinton scored a Grand Slam in her reply:

"I think that Donald just criticized me for preparing for this debate, and yes I did. And you know what else I prepared for? I prepared to be President, and I think that's a good thing."

1 ( +1 / -0 )

cares about people like me

That doesn't make a wit of sense. Clearly his voting base are as stable as he is

1 ( +1 / -0 )

One revealing feature of watching the debate online was seeing Twitter comments as it unfolded. Frank Luntz, a longtime Republican pollster, said 17 of the 20 people in his debate focus group said Clinton won. Bernie Sanders tweeted, “I don't often agree with @MittRomney but he's right: Trump is a ‘fraud’ and a ‘phony.’” Others said the choice facing voters was “first female president or first white nationalist.” Others suggested that Trump just set a record for the most self-congratulatory statements in a presidential debate.

Trump lost. Frank Lutz is about as conservative as you can get but at least he can still admit reality. The posters claiming a Trump victory on JT cannot be honest with themselves. They cannot figure out why their winner just lost so badly to someone that does not have the Presidential look according to Trump. Which means of course that she is not a man.

"first female president or first white nationalist" President indeed. That is the choice indeed.

Barring some great surprise this one is over. Undecided voters saw clearly that Trump is a rude and uncouth loser, unable to stand the pressure of debating Hillary but most important, without any idea of what he would do if he were elected. He is an empty suit that does not pay his fair share of taxes and is in the pocket of Putin.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Follow the money....

Everything we need to know about the consulate fraud that is Donald Trump can be found in his tax returns.

Case in point, when Clinton attacked his refusal to release his tax returns, theorizing that perhaps he hadn't been paying federal taxes.

What's even more fascinating is that FactCheck called Clinton out on her claim that there were released tax forms from years ago indicating Trump hadn't paid federal taxes. As it turns out, he did pay federal taxes.

Hey, he didn't even balk when she said he hadn't. Instead, he went on to brag about how "smart" he was to not pay taxes.

He didn't object to speculation that he wasn't as wealthy as he claims. He didn't object at characterizations that he wasn't charitable. What gives?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

What scandal? There is none.

I'm as sure that there is a scandal in Trump's tax returns, as you guys are that there is something hidden in Hillary's emails.

He could clear it up easily by releasing them. But he's been shown to be a criminal, a liar, and now a manipulator of the tax system, so he doesn't want to show his tax returns and prove these things even further.

Face it. Your man is corrupt.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I was just reading that former Secretary of the Navy and former Republican Virginia Senator John Warner has just endorsed Clinton over Trump:

‘National Security for Dummies’ is no way to learn the presidency, John Warner says as he endorses Clinton

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/%E2%80%98national-security-for-dummies%E2%80%99-is-no-way-to-learn-the-presidency-john-warner-says-as-he-endorses-clinton/ar-BBwJsv1?OCID=ansmsnnews11

1 ( +1 / -0 )

James Comey has stated previously that Clinton's missteps with her email server and the inappropriate routing of classified data would normally result in termination from the position rather than an arrest and being brought to court. Seeing as Clinton was no longer in the position that resulted in the problems, her "termination" had already been effected.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

But the US electorate do, Laguna, on the assumption the polling receipts are correct, a stark choice, an uneducated business failure with no experience of any recognizable political office is holding sway over Hilary Clinton.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Time magazine poll has Trump 59% Clinton 41%, Drudge has Trump 89% Clinton 10%, Fortune has Trump and Clinton both at 50%, Washington times has Trump at 72% Clinton at 22%, CNBC states Trump is 2 points up nationally. CNN, no poll as of yet.

0 ( +10 / -10 )

I don't trust or respect either of these two clowns. My vote is going to Gary Johnson. Don't know who Gary Johnson is? Google him and you will see why the Commission on Presidential Debates is doing a good job to keeping him out. Why are they so scared of him to not want to let him debate? Are they afraid he will break the republican/democrat two-party system?

"There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution." - John Adams

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Another thing that blew my mind: Asked about race relations in the United States, Clinton gave a thoughtful answer that encompassed discrimination in terms of housing, education, employment, and treatment by the criminal justice system. Trump, on the other hand, immediately pounded on the need for "law and order" - that is, in his mind, "race relations" equals "crime by minorities" and nothing else.

By the way, the full debate transcript is here. 検索 "law and order" for their full remarks. This will save all of us much quoting. <http://fortune.com/2016/09/26/presidential-debate-transcript/ >

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Hilary Clinton clearly won the historic debate tonight. Trump may need Putin's help again. He remind me of Le Pen, a former French legionnaire turned politician in the 1970 and 1980..

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Trump has a good hairdresser and Hillary looked nice in a red dress. The actual debate left no last impression on me.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Let me correct a typo on my last posting: (CNN Politics: "Democrats accuse Trump of disloyalty over Clinton emails" by Jeremy Diamond and Stepen Collinson, CNN, July 28, 2026). It should read "2016". Please, Lord, let this not prophesize a future encounter of these two even if it's only an off-year Congressional race.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

They can't have got their talking points yet either, you were clearly right!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

They have nothing to say except parroting some "Trump fans liked Trump" meaningless observation.

Give it another 12 hours and the JT Republicans should received better talking points to distribute, then they can back each other up with the same points and the crafted make believe world will take hold.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Lizz:. The Gravis Marketing poll this morning, as well as the Luntz focus group last night, shows that there is an

Wait, didn't you say that you didn't believe Clinton would be able to stand and talk for 30 minutes straight? You seemed so convinced that I'm surprised it wasn't the first thing you'd mention here.

Are your sources saying? Did we witness a medical miracle?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I actually expected him to talk over Hillary much, much more. I was amazed he didn't do it more.

They're showing his comments on Japan on the Japanese news as I talk.

They're also stating the results of the CNN poll, so everyone in Japan is going to be of the belief (which I also believe) that Hillary won the debate.

When it comes down to it though, it's not the debates that matter, it's the vote. The only question is how many people the debates swayed, and it looks like it probably wasn't many, as both sides seem as entrenched as ever.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

And the CNN poll showed a massive win by Hillary, with the majority of those polled being Democrats. The people are a entrenched as ever.

As for the other polls you showed, we all know Trump's supporters are almost like cultists - look at his rallies, and look at their participation on the internet. Online polls are a reflection of those who actually vote in the online poll. Trump fanatics are much more likely to be rushing every online poll they can find.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Don't worry right-wingers, even though every media shows Clinton won the debate, (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/27/presidential-debate-focus-group-frank-luntz-hillary-clinton-winner?CMP=fb_gu) this won't change your minds. After all, as Trump bragged, he could kill someone in cold blood and that this would not deter any of his followers, now would it???? Which goes to show how violent and bloodthirsty his "followers" are.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Trump fanatics are much more likely to be rushing every online poll they can find.

LOL that's a pretty huge stretch.

Not at all. Look at his rallies. He hypes the people up with hyperbole, gets them riled with emotion and hatred. They embrace him as their savior. His strumpets and deplorables are all over the Internet, vigorously defending his bigotry, his misogyny, his lack of paying taxes, his willingness to go to war. To think that a significant number of them wouldn't be out there hitting every poll then can find is ignoring reality.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Republican really are a bunch of loser, tax dodging, leaches. Zero personal accountability.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

You know who's NOT a lemming? A Republican I respect. Former Republican President George HW Bush has the cojones to state he won't be voting for Trump and as such his only option is to vote for Clinton.

Has that ever happened before? A former president publicly stating that he will be voting for a candidate from the other party?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I don't think it's that he likes Clinton as President so much as he absolutely hates the idea of Trump getting elected President. He could throw away his vote by voting for one of the other candidates with no chance of winning, but that just weakens the voting pool for the two candidates of note. By voting for Clinton he's ensuring his vote really counts against Trump. At least that's my take on it.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I don't think it's that he likes Clinton as President so much as he absolutely hates the idea of Trump getting elected President. He could throw away his vote by voting for one of the other candidates with no chance of winning, but that just weakens the voting pool for the two candidates of note. By voting for Clinton he's ensuring his vote really counts against Trump. At least that's my take on it.

Maybe, but then you have a newspaper like the Arizona Republic, which has supported Republican candidates for 120 years, saying not just that Trump is bad, but that Hillary is much more presidential, and even singing some praises of her: http://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/editorial/2016/09/27/hillary-clinton-endorsement/91198668/

Bush the first isn't an idiot. He may be seeing the same thing.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

you're probable a really fat person too, i reckon. a slob and a waste of space.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I thought he destroyed her.

LOL. When? When he was constantly interrupting her with "Wrong!"? When he was bragging about not paying any taxes for who knows HOW long? (By the way, that disallows him from ever complaining about the government not spending enough on some project because he's a part of the problem.) When he tried making preparing for a debate into something that's BAD?!! Trump got owned badly. The man is a quivering blob when he doesn't have a teleprompter to prop him up.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

As bad as Trump was, anyone would be better than lying Shillary.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

At a recent Tea Party meeting outside of Phoenix, Joe Arpaio got a rock star reception as he entered the room of mostly white senior citizens.

He's beloved by these constituents for leading the state's efforts to crackdown on illegal immigration and for his loud and proud support of presidential candidate Donald Trump.

mostly white senior citizens

Source quote. Solution to the American problem? Just wait some years (Just think of a certain bitter Tea Party demographic and people dying naturally- and time being the real solution). And I have a feeling this solution applies to many of the Hillary haters on this board. I can't wait for the future. It will bring good things and help take out the garbage like many of the racist Trump voters. Time is a fixer.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Yes, but they don't and are NOT supposed to be fact checkers in any debate.

There are no Ten Commandments Of Debates anywhere on which is inscribed: Thou shalt not fact-check. It would seem that those biased against fact-checking are opposed to the truth getting out. If any candidate is going to lie, "Gotcha" might be the right response.

If both candidates are going to lie, then the side opposed to fact-checking is the one that wants to compete on lies.

bass's logic seems to run like this: "If anyone -- anyone -- on the other side is going to be biased, then it justifies MY being biased as an attempt to bring balance."

But we know it doesn't bring balance. Jack Nicholson wrote that his mother once called him a son-of-a-b***h without comprehending the irony.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

What a choice. It's akin to choosing between a poke in the eye or a kick to the groin. But then again, polarising and divisive politics appears to be the way the world is going.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

I think the losers were the viewers who sat through this fiasco. It started at least vaguely talking about policy and issues, but rapidly fell apart. Nobody wants to hear more about birtherism, emails, etc. on a debate stage! Stick to the issues that people care about. I didn't hear anything about health care, energy policy, immigration, family issues, etc. Waaaaay too much time spent on useless back and forth. Whoever vetted the questions needs to be fired immediately.

I only hope the next two stick to the point better.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

MrBum wrote: "... but any thinking person knows that something being unconstitutional because it's ineffective makes no damn sense." (end of MrBum's quote) ... Yes, MrBum, that's why I made the remarks. I'm like you, a thinking person so I thought that that "makes no damn sense". And that from someone who has been touted as a skilled debater. And that in a climate in which people hang on ever word out of a candidate's mouth waiting for an opportunity to damn them. Perhaps her wording was due to a relapse of her pneumonia or perhaps dehydration or ... the way she actually thinks about constitutional matters. ... ... And as far as "nitpicking" is concerned, that woman has a surfeit of them. Why should I or anyone else care? Because she's likely to be the next president.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

MrBum wrote: "The comment you're concerned with makes no sense on its own, ...". Yes, MrBum. That's what concerns me - her comment making no sense. When Mr. Trump makes no sense that concerns me, too. MrBum added: "...and it's not difficult to discern what she meant." It's obvious, right? To whom? Wasn't Mr. Trump's remark "Russia, I hope you find Hillary's missing emails" obviously just sarcasm? Some of Hillary's partisans accused him of treason. And MrBum further added: "It's not even a big enough mistake to make assumptions attributing it to her health." That was sarcasm on my part. Okay, I'm not as good at it as the candidates. And finally, MrBum said: "If something so insignificant bothers you about Clinton, I can only imagine what you think about her actual problems." She has actual problems? Be my guest: list them.

Hint: Start by explaining this statement by Secretary Clinton regarding Mr. Trump's remark regarding the missing emails:

"This has to be the first time that a major presidential candidate has actively encouraged a foreign power to conduct espionage against his political opponent," said Hillary for America senior policy adviser Jake Sullivan. "That's not hyperbole, those are just the facts. This has gone from being a matter of curiosity, and a matter of politics, to being a national security issue." (CNN Politics: "Democrats accuse Trump of disloyalty over Clinton emails" by Jeremy Diamond and Stepen Collinson, CNN, July 28, 2026)

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Wait, didn't you say that you didn't believe Clinton would be able to stand and talk for 30 minutes straight? You seemed so convinced that I'm surprised it wasn't the first thing you'd mention here.

I only watched what I saw on Japanese news to be honest but I know that I don't want either candidate to win by default with a medical collapse or being forced to withdraw due to any kind of life altering emergency. Anyway, whatever problems they both had -- there are two more of these things. Just like after that first debate in 2012..It didn't matter because there were two more, and for better or worse, there are two more here.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Whether Trump won on the issues or gets points for being attacked by the mods in everything I have read he came out ahead on measures of "leadership" "honesty" and "cares about people like me." Which is what he had to show: that he could be presidential, respectful, restrained on a number of personal attacks and compassionate.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

so a dozen people that work at cnn poll themselves and hillary, bought and paid for by the same people that own cnn,wins. no one really still believes a word that cnn says. all but a very few know cnn and other bought and paid for msm is broadcasting false news.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@obliqueweapons

Approximately 50 percent of American households now receive some type of taxpayer-funded government assistance. Maybe this is where it should start to investigate and justify who really needs it and stop some of the government assistance. The government needs more investigators to identify fraud.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

obliqueweapons SEP. 28, 2016 - 11:26AM JST And that's why we are better making 20 million jobs at $12 a hour.....above min wages.

It's called supply and demand. At this time, more people are taking job at the openings of a minimum wage. It is filling the business needs. If business have a shorter supply of minimum wage workers they have to increase offers to increase in hourly wages and benefits. At this time, there is no short supply of minimum wage workers.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

LFRAgain SEP. 28, 2016 - 12:57PM JST If it's all so routine and normal, then why is Trump so terrified of releasing his taxes?

It's more of a PR problem since he's getting majority of the votes from white low income people. Compare to normal working people, he ran a large corporation that didn't pay tax. By law, substantial deductions was authorized to him of not paying tax. He is working within the law. That is the law of U.S. and IRS confirms that.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@Blacklabel can you please post the links to your polls.Thanks in advance..

once again, and its only a small list, "Time magazine poll has Trump 59% Clinton 41%, Drudge has Trump 89% Clinton 10%, Fortune has Trump and Clinton both at 50%, Washington times has Trump at 72% Clinton at 22%, CNBC states Trump is 2 points up nationally. CNN, no poll as of yet."

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

. On scandals Clinton has not had to sign any consent decrees, Trump has.

Clinton is a well know politician who has been vetted over 30 plus years.

Well, educate yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dY77j6uBHI

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/01/21/us/politics/90s-scandals-threaten-to-erode-hillary-clintons-strength-with-women.html

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Why didn't they invite other candidates? Why just these two? What a clown show. Jill Stein would've destroyed Donald, Hillary, and even Gary.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

The only question is how many people the debates swayed, and it looks like it probably wasn't many, as both sides seem as entrenched as ever.

Huh?

Repost:

Trump Wins TIME Poll 58% - 42%

Trump Wins CNBC Poll 67% - 33%... Nearly A Million Votes Cast

Trump Wins Drudge Poll 80% - 20%

Trump Sweeps Entire Fortune 5 Part Debate Poll

Trump Takes Slate.com Poll 54% - 45%

Trump Tops Las Vegas Sun Poll 81% - 19%

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Trump fanatics are much more likely to be rushing every online poll they can find.

LOL that's a pretty huge stretch. I guess it's some grand conspiracy to place trump in better light. Jeez.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Scrote SEP. 28, 2016 - 10:58AM JST Trump's biggest weakness is he doesn't pay any tax and is proud of it;

He's not different than alot of other business. He follows the law of the business tax deduction.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

LFRAgainSEP. 28, 2016 - 11:55AM JSTEverything we need to know about the consulate fraud that is Donald Trump can be found in his tax returns.Case in point, when Clinton attacked his refusal to release his tax returns, theorizing that perhaps he hadn't been paying federal taxes. What's even more fascinating is that FactCheck called Clinton out on her claim that there were released tax forms from years ago indicating Trump hadn't paid federal taxes. As it turns out, he did pay federal taxes.

Like many businesses, Trump is running a business, and under the law, he is entitled to many legal deductions. IRS audits his business regularly. Many business have legal deductions and they don't pay taxes. They play by the rule. What is your problem?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

To think that a significant number of them wouldn't be out there hitting every poll then can find is ignoring reality.

It's plausible but probably unlikely. It would require a huge concerted effort just to try and sway divided opinion. It's bordering on if not conspiratorial brain farts!!

And let's say it's true some people flooded the interwebs with trump wins, it's not a crime, freedom of speech in motion, hillary could borrow a leaf seeing she swings that way anyway, birds of the same feather and all.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

So you don't trust the FBI because they are Washington establishment. Who would you prefer to handle investigations, a 12-year-old from the heartland?

No, I want an end to the Washington elite thugs that have taken our country hostage and care only about remaining in power at all cost, damn the people, their rights, ethics and the constitution.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

I thought he destroyed her. Why is CNN the only channel saying she "dominated" him? Woman editor?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

I don't necessarily agree to Trump but if people want a big change, he mal become a choice. Under Clinton there will not be much change. Trump says America will not be a world police man any more and Japan, Korea and other countries have to pay to America for defending their countries. Truth is Japan is footing a lot of expenses to keep U.S. Forces in the country. Japan want to change the peace constitution and build their own strong military. Trump appears he does not care about Japan to have nukes. It does not sound bad to Japan.

-4 ( +8 / -12 )

Hillary was a smiling robot. Can you remember one thing she said?

-4 ( +13 / -17 )

Trump doesn't have much knowledge in depth of the issues, and is wrong a lot.

Hillary has quite a good grasp of the issues, and is wrong a lot.

What's the difference? How different a Biden vs. Kasich or Sanders vs. Romney race would have been.....

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

There were a few zingers. Towards both. In the end, I think both made points with their supporters, but neither made much of an impact on undecideds. Neither swayed me.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Their poll was not an online poll like the others listed above. It was a poll of of people who watched the debate. So somewhat more serious.

So people online didn't watch?

Another thing that fascinates me is how people fawn over incredibly fickle things like "looking presidential" How in this universe is that going to deliver real change to an already decayed corpse of a system of governance?

By ignoring third party candidates at this stage in time while claiming low support only goes to show how corrupt the two tier system really is. People being force fed the same garbage points years in and years out only to go on and make a 'choice' in an already rigged process.

Like already mentioned above, it's a choice between a poke in the eye or a kick in the nether region, rat or weed poison. What kind of choice is that in all honesty? Shame!!

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

MrBum, it was a strange thing to say - especially from someone supposedly careful with her words. Was it a freudian slip? this is the potential next president and these questions are extremely relevant.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

They have nothing to say except parroting some "Trump fans liked Trump" meaningless observation.

The Gravis Marketing poll this morning, as well as the Luntz focus group last night, shows that there is an undecided vote and it is breaking 3:1 for Trump, after the debate.

If the undecideds break at least 60/40 for Trump over Hillary, he'll win, and he may top 300 EVs in the process.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Trump won the debate in a landslide. Here are the poll results:

http://time.com/4506217/presidential-debate-clinton-trump-survey/

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/297924-poll-who-won-the-debate

http://drudgereport.com/flashnyd.htm

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/26/vote-who-won-the-first-presidential-debate.html

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/09/who_won_debate_trump_clinton_poll_live_presidential.html

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Trump Wins TIME Poll 58% - 42%

Trump Wins CNBC Poll 67% - 33%... Nearly A Million Votes Cast

Trump Wins Drudge Poll 80% - 20%

Trump Sweeps Entire Fortune 5 Part Debate Poll

Trump Takes Slate.com Poll 54% - 45%

Trump Tops Las Vegas Sun Poll 81% - 19%

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

They are all hopeless!!

There is only 1 way to fix America, and that's to go into more debt. Think this idea su&ks? Then put yours forward, why saying why it su&ks :).

The only fix is to borrow $10 trillion to make $4 trillion debt, but get $4 trillion in cash.

If they borrow $10 trillion for 5 - 6 years they will make $4 trillion.

In an low Interest account it will make $320 billion pa and can employ everyone saving on gov payment's and extra work pay tax money and tax income.

$20 billion dollars will hire 2 million people at Americas min wage, so we can create 32 million jobs.

Big biz get handout's of $2.2 trillion and that can now be scraped, and pay back debt, along with all the extra work tax money and tax money.

15 million unemployed with 20 million jobs paying more then min wages.

Now America saves on gov payments $? Big biz handouts $2.2 trillion scraped of cut back by 50%. New work pay tax ? tax money from biz with extra sales and the economy booms from all working.

How long would it take to payback debt with them savings.

5 year strategy employing millions each year why paying back debt of over $1 trillion pa.

The $4 trillion debt made why borrowing that $10 trillion is paid back within 4 years time......Maybe even less.

By all means correct me :)

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

You rightwingers have no standards in regards to debating--I have first year (ok, now they are second year students) who could have had a much more "presidential and rationale presence" than this kook, and they, my students would be doing this in the second language.

To be honest, both are pretty bad when it comes to oratory skills. as much as I can't stand Obama, he and Bill are some of the best as far as liberals are concerned

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

That's what a moderators do. They moderate.

Yes, but they don't and are NOT supposed to be fact checkers in any debate.

Trump knew the rules at the start of the debate and he categorically ignored them in order to vent his spleen. And he ended up looking like a temperamental ass doing it. Don't pin Trump's epic face-plant on Holt, mics, or Clinton. Trump did it all on his own.

That's not true. Both Trump and Clinton should be as honest as possible, both lied on a few issues, but this first debate is to basically talk about their proposed policies and to really sell themselves on the independents that are on the fence and NOT for their supportive voters, because they will vote for them No matter what.

It's utterly fascinating to watch what happens with conservatives any time there is an outcome not to your liking: You turn on your own at the drop of a dime.

You mean like when Dems had a meltdown with Matt Lauer a few weeks ago, ahhh, I get it.

You did it with the other GOP presidential candidates the instant it looked like Trump was going to be the Republican nominee.

Remember one thing, the GOP NEVER wanted Trump or even Cruz for that matter, it was the PEOPLE that chose Trump.

You did it with registered Republican and FBI Director James Comey when his department's investigation failed to confirm your conspiracy theories. And now you're turning on another registered Republican, Lester Holt, because he did his job and prevented Trump from turning the debate into one of his campaign rallies. Conservative are in such a state these days that many of you are only a stone's throw from eating your young.

No one is buying that stupid argument just because Comey is part of the Washington establishment and wouldn't indict Hillary, BUT would anyone else, everyone knows what was up and the BS bogus Bill and Lynch exchange confirmation about grandkids, the people knows what this is and this adds fuel to the fire as to why Hillary has a problem selling herself as the entire Washington establishments. Hillary supporters will always think she's innocent and that's fine, the rest of the country doesn't and if she wants to get ahead, honesty goes along way, but then again, the country has known this woman for over 35 years, so no one is holding their breath.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

What a farce that thing was.

This is what we Americans have to look forward to, either of these two as president?

No wonder our country has become the laughingstock of the world.

-5 ( +8 / -13 )

The biggest disgrace? The moderator.

You are the voice of the American people and are more powerful than both of them. If they try to get of course, tell them to shut up and answer the damn question. Pathetic.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

This is interesting and informative: "Online Polls Show Donald Trump Defeated Hillary Clinton in Presidential Debate. Just Like Bernie" ( Youtuber, author, columnist and journalist H.A. Goodman ) ( he thinks Trump is a buffoon and is voting for Jill Stein )

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Hillary got off easy in this first debate. Maybe in the second debate they'll cover some of her scandals and lying.

I'm looking foward to the destruction of Tim Kaine by Mike Pence Oct.4.

These are interesting from wildly popular Fox News:

"Newt Gingrich: 'Enormous, historic victory' for Donald Trump"

"Laura Ingraham breaks down the first presidential debate"

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Hillary belongs in the Casket of Deplorables.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

That must be some consolation for you, then.

More like, Trump had more decency, if it were me, I would have hammered, daughter or not.

The same people who believed that WMD were in Iraq, that deregulation of Wall Street was super smart, that bush would balance the budget with huge tax cuts for the rich are now saying that Trump won tonight.

What do you think Hillary is going to do? Lowering taxes will be the last thing on her mind, if anything, they will keep going up. You libs are ok with her fattening up her pockets? Because if any politician knows how Washington works they know she will rule over

They live in a bubble of lies and spin. Sadly they have lost the ability to see truth or appreciate facts. When Clinton jumps back to a 4-5 point lead and keeps it going forward their tiny heads will spin.

IF that happens, will Democrats be able to deal with the facts?

I point this out but it does not matter to the lost losers of the right. This is why debating them is so easy. Like taking cake from a babe. They are proud of knowing nothing and being wrong all the time. It really is sad to see, but they have to live with themselves, no easy task one would imagine.

Yeah, you said the same thing about the House and Senate a few years ago and look what happened,

Fact is a year ago they were all saying Trump would fail, now of course they blindly cheer for him as he has become the nominee. No backbone at all, just like Cruz endorsing Trump after Trump said his Dad killed Kennedy. Pathetic.

So basically, you are saying the people should take more none sense, 8 years wasn't enough, so they should submit themselves to more punishment?

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

@sfjp330 And that's why we are better making 20 million jobs at $12 a hour.....above min wages.

Nothing you can do, many handouts will still be "unless" you up min wages for all.

At the end of the day you save on gov payments. Stamps don't cost the gov $350 a week.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

LFRAgainSEP. 28, 2016 - 01:26PM JSTSo why the reluctance to release the forms?

I will make it clear. Loss of votes. Many of the middle to low income voters do understand the laws of tax deductions to all companies. It's more of a perceptions of looking like he's taking advantage of working people by not paying taxes. This will affect some of the white low income voters.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Strangerland SEP. 28, 2016 - 02:33PM JST And it's likely that he probably has more scandals inside his tax returns that he doesn't want released.

What scandal? There is none. If he's being audited, IRS will disclose the problem. He is within the law.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Astounded and astonished, the US electorate will rule the day having to chose between and tax dodger and a lying interventionist.

-6 ( +8 / -14 )

Hillary looked more composed and imo more 'presidential' than Trump but I also think she talked too much like the 30 year veteran politician than she is, same old rhetoric. Not sure the average american voter on less than 50k a year would have been impressed nor convinced she is the one who will bring him an extra 20k in the next couple of years.

I think Trump dug his own hole on a couple of occasions (again he wasn't clear re his tax return) but he also appeared as the only candidate of change.

Pretty even for me but I think DT has more spare ammo left (email, benghazi, the foundation etc). The 'trump is a racist, sexist bigot' rhetoric is old news, she has to look elsewhere imo

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

hmmm, well, whatever side you choose to favor, a stroll down memory lane of past presidential debates will show you how unimportant the first debate actually is.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

I personally don't find a huge stretch to imagine quite a lot of people all getting the idea of voting more than once in an online poll. Especially given the curious disconnect between the online polls and Trump's godawful performance, not to mention the media's response (including conservative commentators), polls that have been conducted since and the way the man himself is now bitching about what a raw deal he (supposedly) got.

That's just a matter of opinion. Trump did exceptionally well for a first time candidate like Hillary, gotta give him props for standing toe to toe and dealing with someone as low as her, and good on him, he now has officially established that he CAN take her on and even though she's a formidable foe, she's is beatable. I admit, Hillary pretty much won the debate on most of the issues, she's a professional politician as well as a professional liar, she knows the game and she does it well. Trump did fall for the trap and ran down the rabbit hole when talking about his taxes and other non-pertinent points. Lester Holt, a pretty good reporter, interrupted Trump about 47 times and Hillary 7, hmmmmm..... You just can't do that as a moderator unless you want to take the focus off of the candidates and onto yourself. I just hope the next debate Trump pounces on her about her emails, server and Benghazi. Ultimately, to both sides and their supporters each side will think their candidate won, but what's really important is, how the independents feel about them, that should be very interesting.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

CNN Poll was 521 people, give me a break. How many people watched this anyway?

"The CNN/ORC post-debate poll includes interviews with 521 registered voters who watched the September 26 debate".

All the other polls I saw referenced above it wasnt even close in favor of Trump. As far as remaining topics, no way that Trump Foundation (tax issues) and Trump University (misleading marketing?) compares to Hillary having to answer Clinton Foundation (pay for play putting foreign interests ahead of USA), emails (classified information mishandling) and Benghazi (US citizens dying).

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

@NCIS reruns I agree with you, but why has CNN already published this as a FACT that Clinton won based on 521 people. Also of the 521 people: Also for the CNN poll:

26% of the respondents who participated in tonight's survey identified themselves as Republicans, 41% identified themselves as Democrats, and 33% identified themselves as Independents

Bias much there?

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Laguna wrote: She said, "Stop and frisk was found to be unconstitutional. And, in part, because it was ineffective." I agree that, although both statements are true (it was ruled unconstitutional, and most criminologists have found very slight impact on crime rates), the result/cause conjunction is out of place. She should have said, "And, in addition, it was ineffective." Her later reasoning supports this. (end of Laguna's statement, an observant reply to my earlier post) ... ... Yes, "her later reasoning supports this", i.e. that stop and frisk was ineffective. But, it's not a matter of what "she should have said", but what she actually said. Was this a slip, a misreading of notes (I noticed she was looking down every other second) or the way she personally judges what is constitutional and what isn't. If the latter is true, and, as president, she is responsible for nominating Supreme Court justices, it makes me wonder what direction law will take in her administration.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Excuse me. Excuse me. Most major online polls have Trump winning the debate bigly.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Interrupted 51 times during the debate. Now that's presidential. (Reagan never did that.)

I'm talking about the moderator.

You mean it's not pertinent that Trump takes pride in paying no taxes ("I'm smart") while deriding the state of America's infrastructure?

Yes, it was stupid that he said that, I agree, so now if you live can equally get as outraged by a woman that has somehow in some mysterious way accumulated billions of dollars for just speaking, then we can call it fair.

As a businessperson he must understand that roads do not pay for themselves. The man is abhorrently amoral, even by the standards of Washington. He is not Mr. Smith. How many times during the debate did he mention the properties he owns? This man lives for himself.

The man is normal, the problem is, Holt was too busy getting in on the debate when that wasn't his job to do. If Hillary wants to call him out or vice versa, fine, but other than that, the debate was between them.

That wasn't interrupting. That was trying to get Trump to answer the questions asked. Holt was dealing with a 12-year-old who kept going off topic.

No, that was interrupting and again, if he does it, then he should be fair if he wants to call out the candidates on a particular issue, he can do so, but equally, he rides Trump about his taxes which the left and primarily Hillary supporters want, then Holt should do the opposite for Trump supporters and ask her about Benghazi and her mails, that's what an objective news reporter does-period.

About the server, yes, I agree that Clinton deserves more grilling than what Holt gave her. Benghazi? Come on. As much as I dislike and distrust Clinton, she is at least a passable candidate. Like it or not, government requires professionals, not egotistical populists with completely incoherent ideas.

I will agree on the fist half of your point, Hillary is a pro no doubt about it, but given her baggage, how can anyone say with a straight face, she would be better. Even Bill is more convincing as well as believable compared to Hillary.

Basically, Trump proved that he is not presidential material. If you can't hold it together for a 90-minute debate without blowing your top, you don't have the 'stamina' (his term). He offered absolutely no specific policy proposals in the entire debate (Clinton did many times). He is a spoiled brat with a personality disorder, and a LOSER. Replace that initial L for an H and Doug and Bob Mackenzie are your uncles.

To be fair, I will say this, Trump did good for the beginning part and near the end, in the middle, he was all over the place, but the main thing is, he passed the test, now I don't think it will change the minds of their followers one bit, but let's see how it will change the minds of the undecided, that's about 12% of voters that are on the fence. He's past the test that he can hang with a seasoned politician like Hillary, she was calm, composed and she looked rested and pretty good, but I think he's learned from this, keep his hands up and go for a jab in the next debate,CEO to let Hillary rattle his cage, press her on the security issue and mails and get her off her heels next time.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

All of the polls I have seen say that Trump "won" the debate. That, plus the fact that he is now winning some of the general election polls is a good sign. Also the fact that Bengazhi, Clinton Foundation and the details of the emails haven't even come up yet looks very good for Trump.

His "bad" things all came up in the 1st debate, yet he still won? Now, they have little else to ask him about but still plenty for Hillary so debates 2 and 3 should go well too.

-8 ( +6 / -14 )

Great debate last night. All across this nation, liberals are curled up in the fetal position in their safe places (which ought to be places in a safe) this morning after realizing the media exit polling shows Mr. Trump owned the night.

Highlight of the evening was during the opening segment when both candidates were tasked with giving their plans to reignite American prosperity. Mr. Trump shut his career status quo politician opponent down by asking her one question:

“You’ve been doing this for 30 years, why are you just thinking about these solutions now? Secretary Clinton. . . should have been doing this for years, not right now because we’ve created a movement."

Game, set and match. Bravo, Mr. Trump. Well played, sir. . . .

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

bill murphy, I agree, and share your concerns. btw, It looks to me like hillarys people are seeing what they want to see. A couple of intelligent people Im acquainted with who support neither main candidate called the debate about even.

as for "bernie tearing up twitter", hes lost his credibility with so many people. he sold out to hillary. Im not even mildly interested to find out what he has to say, and Im one of those who used to like him.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

CNN Post-Debate Poll Shows 62 Percent Of Audience Thought Clinton Won, Just 27 Percent Thought Trump won.

CNN? Seriously? Ok, so what about the other networks besides the Clinton News Network think that?

-12 ( +5 / -17 )

Great debate last night. All across this nation, liberals are curled up in the fetal position in their safe places (which ought to be places in a safe) this morning after realizing the media exit polling shows Mr. Trump owned the night.

Hillary tried and tried to really get him, insulted the man in front of his family and Trump had every right to bodyslam her and hit her right back, but he didn't because he was thinking about Chelsea, now I know that was hard to do, but that goes to show, the man does have decent moral qualities and could easily restrain himself.

-13 ( +0 / -13 )

From the leader of the American Enterprise Institute even. By any measure Trump was eradicated.

The left keeps saying that and it was actually quite the opposite, he held his own, he didn't falter and one thing, the enthusiasm gap for Hillary is low, it all depends on how you look at it. Hillary supporters give her high marks and Trump supporters give him high marks, it doesn't matter what either of their supporters think, it boils doesn't to how the independents think, pure and simple.

This may be the moment when it became clear he will never be President despite the closing of the poll numbers in the last month.

Yeah, the same was said about the House and Senate in 2010 and 2014 and even this time, Dems were counting on taking the Senate back and it looks like that hope got crushed as well. Careful for what you wish....

Amazing that anyone would consider voting for such a defective person. He is a con artist and that is all. And not really a good one even at that.

Many of us feel worse about Hillary.

-15 ( +0 / -15 )

You got to have even numbers voting. Clearly if there was 26% republicans to 41% democrats, the democrats will win......darrr.

Trump for President :)

-17 ( +1 / -18 )

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