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Clinton: World must act on S Korean ship sinking

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Mai sincere hope is that before the new war begins, that at least there will be actual proof of guilt on the part of North Korea. Instinctively there is little doubt, but even doubt's shadow must be respected.. Truth is strength. Find the truth, and then stand firmly upon it.

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There will be no war. Just a few more sanctions on luxury goods. That will help a lot for sure. Can we even hope that the UN will ask the NK to scrap their subs? Naaaa... it won't go that far. The West won't be able to help SK if a war breaks. China will pressure NK to calm down. Only China will gain in this situation and prove again that she is the new (or about to be the new) master of world.

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objectivity of the investigation that led to the conclusions,” she said.

Objectivity? Like concluding it was Nk because it had some Korean writing. They had more convincing "proof" that Saddam was amassing WMDs. And we all know how that turned out...

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China is hardly the master of the world. China is hardly master of itself. The corporate types want us to all believe the China is the new dominant state, but the facts don't support this. China has serious internal problems, growing desent and a rich poor gap that promises to bring future unrest.

So don't overestimate China's role in anything just yet.

They may be no war so long as it is up to the west to start it. Simply does not benefit anyone. But there is always the wild card of what NK might do.

My guess is China will not come down hard on NK, the UN will not be able to pass a substantial resolution. Sanctions will be limited to the willing parties such as SK, Japan and the US. NK will throw a fit but will not do much other than show off a lot of noise and threats.

As for war, if it did happen, I think you would see the same results as the first gulf war. NK's military would see all its technology, tanks and large systems gone in a few days. While the army may fight on, it would be seriously disadvantaged. The frightening point would then be the willingness of NK to use or not use nukes.

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The days of massive military assaults along 200-km fronts are gone. The NK military (and its saboteurs in the south) would run rampant for all of 48 hours before running out of everything. Not to mention that massed land forces these days don't fare well without air support. This leads me to conclude that Field Marshall Kim will respond to this "provocation" with some creative mischief and not commit the bulk of his forces.

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Note that NK still denies it. Even if they did do it, I don't want to avenge the deaths of 46 men by getting tens of thousands killed. I would rather honor those men for dying in the line of duty. If their deaths ensured peace, well that was their job.

And I agree with Sabi's post above. The evidence is pretty damned thin. Looks very likely to me that everyone is getting fooled again, and so soon after the Iraq debacle.

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I read somewhere that the NK troops have already started shooting at SK's psycho-war speakers. I expect a firefight to soon breakout on the DMZ any day now.

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tkoind2: China is calling the shots. China, after all, is the only power to control NK. A country that manufacture almost a huge part of what is consumed in the world (even the so called third one) and control your currency (to give you the power to buy the thing manufactured), don't need to reverse engineer much things because you ask them to manufacture them (I'm not talking about shoes or apparels), I think, yes, they master the world.

Sabiwabi: you can have your doubts. No problem but don't focus on only 1 "proof" but the whole. Like the parts fitting a North-Korean design and even the explosive residue, metal that seem to be made in Germany.

MistWizard: Ok. and get away with it. The dead Afghan people thanks you very much.

MeLuvULongTimes: Listening to k-pop and telling that I'm crap? I'll be shouting at the loud speakers.

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China said years ago that any war between N and S Korea would cause China to invade N Korea... to keep the border where it is at, otherwise the US would put it's bases on the northern border with China and China would have millions of refugees in their country begging for food.

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Right now 46 are dead. A war means 46000+ dead. Hillary can't even shoot a gun, what business is it for her to push S Korea into a war with their brothers. For all we know, this whole thing is a setup. Hillary seems to be the only one pushing for actions that might lead to war.

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TubleDry: China, after all, is the only power to control NK.

Great, then let the world's master control North Korea and force them into the international community. So far they've been a terrible disappointment given their leverage over KJI.

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TumbleDry said: China is calling the shots. China, after all, is the only power to control NK.

Control?? What the heck? If China could control NK things would be very different. China has influence. That is about it. But NK is still the hermit kingdom and still pretty isolated even from China.

No problem but don't focus on only 1 "proof" but the whole. Like the parts fitting a North-Korean design and even the explosive residue, metal that seem to be made in Germany.

I don't know what you mean about parts fitting a NK design, but residue and metal from Germany point to South Korea, not the North. Its South Korea that uses German torpedoes.

Ok. and get away with it.

I would rather the guilty walk free than the innocent be condemned. And a war would mean a whole heckuva lot of innocents condemned even if some people in NK are guilty. Besides, if NK is guilty, they are bound to slip eventually trying something similar. Its the job of the military to catch that sort of thing, and if they fail and die for it, then they carry some blame as well. I think somebody must have messed up if there was an enemy sub in the waters they are SUPPOSED to be watching.

The dead Afghan people thanks you very much.

I honestly have no idea what that is supposed to mean.

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mist..

I would rather the guilty walk free than the innocent be condemned. And a war would mean a whole heckuva lot of innocents condemned even if some people in NK are guilty.

You have a point... also, tough sanctions mean the innocent poor in N Korea will be the ones without food, the ones in power will always dine like kings and the military will always have food in their dining facilities.

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Asia and Europe have been though a lot of war in the last 70 yrs, they don't have the appetite for it the way the US does.. probably because noone alive remembers it happening on our soil. Hillary should just shut her mouth and go home, noone really respects her in Asia anyway, figuring she got her position because of her husband. You don't send women over to tell asian men what to do..

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You don't send women over to tell asian men what to do..

Yeah! Don't send a woman, send a Secretary of State or something...

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SuperLib:MistWizard: About North-Korea and China read "the power [TO] control NK" I don't think China tells NK to shoot any torpedoes.

MistWizard: I don't know what you mean about parts fitting a NK design, but residue and metal from Germany point to South Korea, not the North. Its South Korea that uses German torpedoes.

If you are an expert on weapons (especially torpedoes) explosive and material, I'd like to see your credential. You and I are sheep and process what governments and media give us. We forge an opinion out it. Why opinion is that NK fired the torpedo and the German made explosive nor SK as nothing to do with it (you can say that I'm selective on this point).

I honestly have no idea what that is supposed to mean.

I'd like to withdraw off topic sentence

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So far they've been a terrible disappointment given their leverage over KJI.

NK is their pawn to counter the west. They don't want that little distraction called Kim Jong Il gone. He is their only buffer for anything that may happen on the Taiwan issue. Knowing the US supports Taiwan, China would not want his little chihuahua KJI to stop nipping at the ankles of the US and her allies. China is out for itself and seems to have slapped it's chihuahua on the nose over this.

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TumbleDry said: If you are an expert on weapons (especially torpedoes) explosive and material, I'd like to see your credential.

No. I would like to see yours. You see, it was YOU who claimed the explosive residue and metal were German. All I said, an its plenty documented, was that SK uses German made missles.

You and I are sheep and process what governments and media give us. We forge an opinion out it. Why opinion is that NK fired the torpedo and the German made explosive nor SK as nothing to do with it

Sheep do indeed form opinions based on what they are spoonfed. I have not voted because I have not formed a singular opinion. I have precious little to form one on. And unlike many here, I don't think national pride is a basis for an opinion on the matter.

(you can say that I'm selective on this point).

Odd that you recognize that but do it anyway. If you need to disregard related evidence to form a conclusion, something is wrong with your conclusion.

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MistWizard: I have no credential on anything. I form an opinion on what information I have and select the information I find appropriate, like you do.

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You were still way off base to ask me for credentials though. I was just going off the info you provided. We all labor in the dim light we are provided with. Therefore, we should all refuse to fight any sort of war unless its overwhelming clear we are under attack.

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MistWizard: I copy and paste from my comment above.

MistWizard: I don't know what you mean about parts fitting a NK design, but residue and metal from Germany point to South Korea, not the North. Its South Korea that uses German torpedoes.

The parts found supports this is a North Korean torpedo not a German one. The residue found seemed to be German made but this has been ruled out. We are not talking about residue but parts. Propeller axe and motor from what was reported from the investigation results. If want to ignore the parts and stay fixed on the German supposedly made explosive remains (ruled out again but they can lie after all), do what you want.

Therefore, we should all refuse to fight any sort of war unless its overwhelming clear we are under attack.

I agree with you. Now we have to agree what is an attack and what's not. A torpedo in a SK boat in SK waters, sounds like an attack.

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