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Pulled from drain pipe, Gadhafi was shown no mercy

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Looks like they finally got his ass.

Like Saddam, hiding down a hole. Though unlike Iraq ,this is a legitimate revolution against their dictator. Usually I'm against the death penalty, but in this case I hope the Libyan's try him and hang him. No more green books to write, no more coke to snort. I've been saving a good bottle for his apprehension.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Ghastly image on the BBC website of a ragged and bloodied Gaghafi being half held up by fighters.

They definitely got him, it seems, but I doubt he can survive that.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Only leg wounds I've. Kudos to the rebels for taking him down, but not out if this is the reality.

Ghastly is what his clinging to power has caused. I have no sympathy for the man.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Gadhafi may be laughing his ass off at these reports, but I hope he has indeed been captured or killed.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Al Jazeera are confirming he has died from wounds following the gun battle.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I hope the capture or death of Gadhafi will end the war and violence and the country can now move into the rebuilding stage.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

First reports said he was shot in both legs and was being taken to Misrata by ambulance.

Now they are saying, "Oh, yes, and he has also been shot in the head". Er... hello?

They are now waiting 'for his body' to arrive in Misrata.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The AP says he has been killed. Well no soapbox for him at a show trial. He will not be able to do the Saddam swing.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Agreed Zichi.

Probably best he is dead, as it's a forgone conclusion anyway. Hard to say if a trial would be any good for reconciliation.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

"Well no soapbox for him at a show trial."

Probably not as he might well have been declared insane at a trial, which he had been for years I imagine. That, along with the Tony Montana affectation.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

his death has helped many governments keep their secrets of their underhand ways, especially the UK.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

I'm not sure if the secrets would have come out. The Americans made sure Saddam got snuffed (and it did little for reconcilliation I might add) yet his dirty dealings with Western governments failed to emerge. Gadaffi was there for himself for 41 years. Me, me me.

He could have fled to Algeria or Nigeria and saved his life. But, like most dictators it would seem, he refused to see the writing on the wall, and it's looking more and more like he died today. It's just a damned shame the bastard had to take so many with him.

I'm wondering where all the supposedly virgin Amazonian warrior girls are now the were his entourage all these years. Talk about femmes fatales.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Gadaffi must be dead, if the rebels are bringing his body to Misurata right now.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

With bullet wounds in both legs, he tried to escape, right, so they shot him with a 9mm, in the head. Hmmm...

On thing I have learned from this.

When they capture me I will definitely try and escape as they will surely declare that I was shot 'trying to escape' whatever I offer to do. (In a hypothetical World War Three of course.)

RIP. Whatever his black deeds, he died fighting right to the end. No weaseling out. Gotta give him that.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

He sure looks dead in the AFP photo ... he's covered with blood but his eyes appear to be open. Reports said he was shot not only in both legs, but the head, too. Thus all the blood. Ghastly sight. Tough being a dictator ... especially, in most cases, the ugly ending. The only way for this dude to go ...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

"so they shot him with a 9mm, in the head. Hmmm..."

Possibly with his own golden gun. Heh, the irony if that were the case.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

There's a photo taken with a mobile phone on BBC News claiming to be him.

WARNING-it's not pretty!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15389550

0 ( +0 / -0 )

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Oh, he's dead for sure. The pics are gruesome, but finally this mad dog of the east was put out of his misery. The man had so much blood on his hands. Blood in, blood out! He got what he deserved. He did had enough opportunities to flee and live in exile, but he wanted to go down with the ship and die a martyr. Seems like his wish was fulfilled.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

He was found down a hole just like any other rat, and a million life times away from his days in gold palaces.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I presume the radical left will be chiming in about "murder" or some such nonesese anytime soon?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

The end of a very eccentric man. But why does Obama get the credit for his capture by Americans?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I presume the radical left will be chiming in about "murder" or some such nonesese anytime soon?

Methinks the same thing. As a matter of fact, there are a few typical individuals on JT that will undoubtedly beat the drum that (he Gadhafi) was unjustifiably murdered.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

"unlike Iraq, this is a legitimate revolution"

But like Iraq, the revolutionaries had a lot of outside help, didn't they, Madverts? In fact, without all the outside help ( NATO ) Gadhafi would still be ruling the place.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

One of Gaddafi's sons is also dead. Mutamsim. His other son Saif still at large. Gaddafi begged like a worm wiggling in the sand not to be shot. He wasn't so remarkable at the end.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Well, If true that explains the stiff resistance in Sirte.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Now I wish the outside help would go and deal with the Zimbabwean lunatic,but there's no upside removing him from power.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

So the open murder of M. Gadhafi is done now. Scamble for oil interests & reconstruction contracts by France, Britain...& USA has already started month ago.. Poor Libya & Libyans, the black gold underneath killed you & ruined the country ! as the West, endangered by debts crises, sought an easy target for money.. Have to put it bluntly -- a gang of V8 nations with 'V' standing for modern version of Vikings ! ( I am no supporter in any sense of M. Gadhafi )

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

searano,

The two events aren't really comparable meladdo. Iraq was an un-popular invasion on trumped up charges with no UN mandate. Lybia was a popular up-rising.

Are you sugessting Lybia will become like post-invasion Iraq with daily, massive, suicide bombings and other such un-checked carnage?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Rather mixed feeling about the Gadhafi family -- despite all negative propagandas popped up 8 months ago by the Western media about this man & family, appreciated his family's 'integrity' -- fighting to death , as promised, on his own country's soil. His spokesman ( cannot recall his name ) on TV remained surprisingly loyal till the last moment. Big contrast with the majority of his aids / generals who fled months ago ! ( I am no supporter in any sense of M. Gadhafi )

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

some of his last words to one rebel fighter,

"what did I ever do to you?"

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Over the past months Gaddafi called his opponents, "rats" and in the end he was found like a rat down a drain.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

All the horrendous hell this 1 man created for so many of those people. Throughout the decades the many thousands of innocent people who have died because of this violent tyrant. Good Riddance!

Just hope Libya does not turn into Iraq and these "freedom fighting rebels" can actually rebuild and make a great Libyan Nation without ongoing fighting and civil war. But I'm guessing that won't be the case.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

It's done, then.

Here is hoping to a brighter future for the Lybian people.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

In the end Gaddafi was given a final gift from the people, a bullet in the head!

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Wonders if the new government will be any better?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Wonders if the new government will be any better?

That's a pretty low bar...

0 ( +2 / -2 )

“[Obama's Libya policy] is as badly executed as any policy, I think, we’ve seen since World War II, and we’ve become a case study about how not to engage in this kind of activity."

So said Republican foreign policy "guru" Newton LeRoy Gingrich. He's the GOP's "mind" and therefore we can expect Gadhafi to make a fool out of the United States.

Of course, the U.S.'s 9-year invasion/occupation of Iraq was a masterstroke of genius.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

One of my Muslim friend said this;

Allah will reward Gadhafi the most highest place in heaven. Muhammad ( PBUH) will welcome him with all houners as he was a real soldier of Muslims fighting aganist west. And Allah will punish all those who tried to kill him.Allahu Akbar...

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

I dear friend from New York was killed by the Lockerbie bombing so I can't say I'm sad that Gaddafi is dead.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Celebrating death is sick - I don't care if it was an evil dictator.

Now Libya needs to sort themselves out. I hope it doesn't turn into Egypt - women are being treated worse now than before, issues with religion, public services not being looked after...

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

I watched CNN News half an hour ago, where Senator McCain said Libya doesn't need financial assistance. But USA could be of 'assistance' to them....I'm guessing what he meant is sending American businessmen to Libya to benefit financially.....:)

In the end it's always the Policeman of the World who gets it all....

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The violence will continue in Libya as this is not about some dictator being killed but about the control of Libya and its resources. If we want to see what Libya will look like after this foreign intervention then we should look at Iraq, in which there are still people being murdered by the scores every month.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

So what now? Has the thirst been satisfied? I guess we'll know if this man's death made life any better at the gas pump soon.

Linkin Park - In the end, it doesn't really matter!!

-3 ( +1 / -5 )

The civil war in Libya was about bringing an end to the Gaddafi reign and taking control over the country and installing a transitional government. It's about people taking control over their lives. The reign of Gaddafi was one long lie and scam.

Libya can't be compared with Iraq.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

tmarie,

How about celebrating your emancipation?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

NetNinja,

I imagine it matters quite a lot to the Lybians.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

And now the extremists take over the country.

2 ( +6 / -5 )

Wonders if the new government will be any better?

Good question. Believe it or not a large number of the rebels are Al Qaeda. In fact one of them, Abdel-Hakim al-Hasidi, is the rebel commander and fought against the West in Afghanistan. So why is he now on Nato's side? Basically you have the rebels (Al Qaeda) backed up by NATO killing Libyan people to bring peace. Doesn't that ring a few warning bells? The Guardian even gave al-Hasidi space to write an op-ed (probably penned by Nato people). Surreal, until you really know what's going on.

Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al-Qaeda links

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8407047/Libyan-rebel-commander-admits-his-fighters-have-al-Qaeda-links.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/sep/27/revolution-belongs-to-all-libyans

I suggest people go to the following links to try and see another side of the picture. All we get is the West's propaganda about how bad Gaddafi was. But did you know that there was a huge rally in support of him back in June or July. As I recall something like 1.5 million people turned out in a country whose population is only 4 million.

The reason Libya was invaded had nothing to do with human rights abuses. (Does the West invade Bahrain or Saudi Arabia, for example, for their egregious human rights abuses?) The human rights thing was just a pretext and the public swallow it so easily. Time to wake up and see who your real enemy is.

Libya & Gaddafi - The Truth you are not supposed to know

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XorKTwkFPDU

Lizzy Phelan's testimony

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFvpfkUyBqE

As for the possibility of whether Gaddafi has really been killed see this.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/galleryoffakebinladens.php

4 ( +4 / -1 )

It's clear Gadhafi was allowed to bleed to death from his wounds. Well, that saves the cost of a trial, but really, wouldn't a trial have been better?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

No to the trial: historically things are always better if you kill the King outright. No exile (they just come back one day) No trial (yawn, snooze, foregone conclusion) No prison (same as exile)

Kill them and they are DONE.

It's brutal, it's barbaric, it's uncivilized and it WORKS.

So; good riddance to bad rubbish.

8 ( +6 / -0 )

The media has set out to demonise Gadhafi yet I have yet to see any conclusive proof of atrocities carried out by his government.In fact, the number of allegations far outnumber any proven facts.

@zichi

I would be interested to know why Libya cannot be compared with Iraq?

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

I don't applaud the death of anyone, and think that anyone who does so, regardless of who has died, is as bad as the people who danced in the streets in some nations when 9/11 occurred. The man was evil, to say the least, and Libya can now likely start to heal and hopefully improve life for its citizens, but cheering on a person's death?

Anyway, I do indeed hope that the revolution is over and things get better. I don't want to see some other dictator simply step into his shoes.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

And now the extremists take over the country.

I doubt it.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

The Shoe Bomber said, "I thought that I would wake up in heaven, but it was Detroit." That is really funny, especially if anyone has been to Detroit. Ghaddafi said, "I thought I would wake up in heaven, but it was a drain pipe full of rats." It is not sad that he dies. It is sad that this type of human being lives for such a long period.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The Shoe Bomber said, "I thought that I would wake up in heaven, but it was Detroit." That is really funny, especially if anyone has been to Detroit. Ghaddafi said, "I thought I would wake up in heaven, but it was a drain pipe full of rats." It is not sad that he dies. It is sad that this type of human being lives for such a long period.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

French President Nicolas Sarkozy said it would allow Libyans “to free themselves from the dictatorial and violent regime.”

This from a country that does not have the Death Penalty. I wonder how they can justify his killing, but a person tried by a jury of a heinious crime and evidence is shown to prove their guilt, they will not kill.

I was no fan of Gadhafi, and I think he was behind many a bad deed and been behind some bad things. But he was captured and begged for his life, yet he was killed outright. At least Saddam had a trial but this guy didn't. I hope that the people of Libya made the right choice. Funny, why isn't the US pushing for the ouster of Syria? He is killing his people left and right, and yet no movement of going in after him.

Interesting to note, two leaders of Arab nations who tolerated Israel are out of power. One is dead (Gadhafi) and the other has been thrown from power (Mubarak). I guess Israel is really along now.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

kurisupisu

I would be interested to know why Libya cannot be compared with Iraq?

Because Libya was a civil war even if it was backed by NATO. Iraq was invaded by foreign armies.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Well, he had the chance to give up for a couple of months, but still talked nonsese whie running. If he turned himself in, he would have had a trial. Gahafi chose this ending on his own.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

RIP. Whatever his black deeds, he died fighting right to the end. No weaseling out. Gotta give him that.

Tell that to the people (innocent, not rebel fighters) who died whilst he fought to the end. Much of the violence could have been avoided, I just hope it is over now.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

I still have the feeling that it wasn't right to kill him. I'm no fan of him(and I specifically didn't wish his son succeeding him) but this guy had done a lot of good to his ppl. Free healthcare, free education, no tax(Republicans should love this), good infrastructure by regional standard, even $1000 per month for those who cannot work(Dems should love this). I've never lived under a dictator but Gadhafi was one I wouldn't mind living with. He was a bad guy who also did some good stuffs. Now Nato, if your intention is so much about the civilians, Syrians are begging for your help.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

He was a coward right up to the end - just like Saddam - cowering and hiding. These guys talk the talk, but when it comes down to their final moments, they just look like scared old men! Good riddance.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I wonder how the despot Kim Jong Il is feeling right now? Your Gadaffi/Ceaucescu moment will come Kim. Sweet dreams.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

gyouza: "Tell that to the people (innocent, not rebel fighters) who died whilst he fought to the end. Much of the violence could have been avoided, I just hope it is over now."

People need to stop with the whole "if you're not with us you're against us" and, "if you don't agree with A you automatically agree with B" thinking. I doubt very much the person who said RIP in any way supported Ghadafi and his murderous reign. I most certainly do not, but I agree that death is death, and is not a thing to be cheered for or celebrated (in the way it's being celebrated by some). I agree with you in the hope that it's over now, and in all likelihood it will be (save for perhaps a few die-hard supporters who want to go out with a bang, so to speak.

Alphaape: "Funny, why isn't the US pushing for the ouster of Syria? He is killing his people left and right, and yet no movement of going in after him."

As has been stated, this was a civil war, not the US attacking yet ANOTHER nation. True, they supported the rebels, as did the UN (more physically), and who's to say Syria is not next in line? I'd say rhetoric towards that has been quite prevalent to date, and the warnings quite clear.

Scrote: "I wonder how the despot Kim Jong Il is feeling right now? Your Gadaffi/Ceaucescu moment will come Kim. Sweet dreams."

This has zero to do with Kim Jong II, and regardless there would be no civil war there, and no one in their right mind would attack them. No, Kim will go out of natural causes I'm pretty sure (well on the way).

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

One middle east nut case down, but there are millions more of them.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

One middle east nut case down,

That is one thing that has been annoying me for ages with posters here.

Ever looked at a map and compared where Libya and the ME is situated? No-one besides some posters here places them in the same location.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Headline should have been "Gadhafi gets Libyan version of "Bada Bing"

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Of course some posters(thumb-down guys) think the ME is NOT a physical location and can be anywhere.

Reminder Libya is on the Northern edge of Africa, far from the commonly accepted geographical location that is known as the Middle East. But than Libiya could be in Southern America/anywhere and they would still call it the ME.

Awaiting more thumbs-downs.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Its ME....it is a part of what is known as the greater middle east so they arent that far off. Move it to South America then i would be out of the scope.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Genji17.

Never ever heard that classification. Where does it come from? It is worldwide accepted or only used by a small group?

And exactly what does it cover? Curious, as I never heard of it.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

While he was still alive, the fighters drove him around lying on the hood of a truck, perhaps to parade him in public. One fighter held him down, pressing on his thigh with a pair of shoes in a show of contempt.

I understand how they felt. But that's no way to treat him...

I would have tried to keep him alive to a) extract any useful information and b) prolong his suffering until a "proper" execution was arranged. My definition of "proper" may not be the type you think.

Even so, better dead than alive and creating problems. Wrap him in pigskin and put some bacon in his mouth.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

`@smithinjapan - he persued a pointless battle in pursuit of vanity. It was unneccessary. Do you also think he should have continued until the end in the way he did?

Anything wrong in wanting to spare some lives? Enough grief in the world already.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

it'S ME, in business publications the area is usually referred to as MENA for "Middle East and North Africa".

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Bogart.

Wrong answer, as business terms etc are different and use different criteria Heck those business terms reclassify most countries, incl 1st world ones. BTW, I googled up the term by now, still waiting for an answer from Genji17.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

it"S ME.

No, it is the right answer even if you don't like it. Not really sure what your post is trying to say though

0 ( +1 / -1 )

It's ME - Probably everyone associates Libiya as being just another crazy middle eastern country. Stop being pedantic.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Only some people that are geographically, etc challenged. Try breaking out of that bubble. ;)

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Well, Mr. Obama, Sarkozy, and Cameron.... your 1 billion USD illegal Arab adventure has suceeded. You have killed one Arab dictator, albeit one that was harmless for the West.

Now lets see if the new regime that replaces Gadaffi will be preferable to the old one.

Here is safe prediction, Mr. Obama, Sarkozy, and Cameron: You are up for a very rude surprise.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Or stop that Bush administration induced thinking that seems to be common to americans now. Bogart you are wrong too, you don't work for the world.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Or stop that Bush administration induced thinking that seems to be common to americans now. Bogart you are wrong too, you don't work for the world.

it"S ME. Now I am confused. No idea what you are trying to say but the fact is the MENA is a widely used acronym.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Bogart.

Dead easy.

"Greater ME" and "MENA" are totally different terms and 100% unrelated, if you knew the criteria they are based on. Might try checking those criteria yourself, which you should be aware of already as you used the term.

You simply tried to chip in here as usual on an unrelated term and did an unprovoked attack on me. So why did you post here in the 1st place, we weren't discussing business, etc?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Another huge victory for Obama. He gets OBL after a couple of years while Bush has seven and did nothing. He was hands on in LIbya invasion, it would not have happened without US support and US military cover, and now another massive victory.

Lets do the math. Bush wars in ME, ten years, losses, 5000 US dead, trillions wasted, US embarrassed. Obama war in Libya, 8 months, little spent, no US lives lost, massive victory with creation of a democracy in Libya. Obama is the real war president. Republicans, like everything else they touch, just fail over and over again. Why anyone votes for failure in the US is just plain crazy. Obama gets the job done. And when it is done, he doesn't fly a jet and claim mission accomplished like bush did prematurely for Iraq, he just simply congratulates the Iraqi people although it was him that really insured victory. Class act all the way though. No republican president since Dwight Eisenhower even comes close.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

What they did to him according to that photo above is simply barbaric, primitive and childish.

Tossing a ragdoll around.

But by now they probably needed a few moments of barbarism.

Situations like this are always a sad day for humanity.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

It another huge victory for Obama! He got Osama after two years but Bush had seven and couldnt do nothing.Presdident Obama led the LIbya invasion from behiind. It was leading from behind. A truly massive victory. Now killer Kadafi knows, you don't mess with the winner of a Nobel Peace Prize, or you get smoked.Dead.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

JeremiahW, Obama did not want the US to get directly involved with this. He left it up to NATO.

What can he claim victory for?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

it"S ME, I was simply pointing out a commonly used acronym for the region. Don't quite see how that constitutes an unprovoked attack.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

gyouza: "Anything wrong in wanting to spare some lives? Enough grief in the world already."

He says as he approves of the murder. Don't you find that hypocritical? I have said before, you need to drop the 'if you don't like the outcome it means you want/like the opposite' attitude. Of COURSE I don't want ANYONE to die, let alone via murder -- life is a precious thing. My saying that Ghadafi's murder is not a good thing doesn't mean I agree with what he did to others. You people need to stop being so black and white.

nandakandamanda: "What they did to him according to that photo above is simply barbaric, primitive and childish."

EXACTLY! It really doesn't make them all that different than he was, does it? in the end they tortured and killed a man.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Still don't see how a purely "business term" has ANY implications on the current topic. Care to enlightened us.

This is about a northern african country, etc.

Called out a guy on a term that was termed by the bush administration and if you look it into covers even former russian, etc territories.

For the most of the world Libya is NOT the ME can you dispute that one?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

I moved my globe to the east on my desk, and then place Libya straight in the middle. It is now the Center of the Middle East. So there!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Zucronium:

" Lets do the math. Bush wars in ME, ten years, losses, 5000 US dead, trillions wasted, US embarrassed. "

You call that math?? Lets remind you: Obama is STILL in Afghanistan, and more troops are being killed under his watch than ever before. For the record, after Bush Senior bombed Gadaffi, the latter stopped his nuclear programme and terrorist support. All that we can realistically want from an Arab dictator. Obama, by the way, called Gadaffi a "friend" just a year ago.

" Obama war in Libya, 8 months, little spent, no US lives lost, massive victory with creation of a democracy in Libya. " Creation of democracy in Libya? Unless that is a sick joke, oh boy, do you have a rude awakening coming.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Gadhafi, like many world leaders, had his short coming. But I for one want to look at the good part also. Before the war, there was no Libyan crossing the Mediterranean for greener pasture. It was rather the opposite. Workers from all corners found good paying jobs there. Because multinationals weren't the drivers of the economy there. Now, they are running in. The main reason for the intervention. Not much about the civilians. Otherwise Syria would have gotten the rescue it so much need.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I wonder how many victims of gaduffy were ever shown any kind of mercy?? You live by the sword and you will die by the sword?? Karma is real strict!!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@smithinjapan

.gyouza: "Anything wrong in wanting to spare some lives? Enough grief in the world already."

He says as he approves of the murder. Don't you find that hypocritical? I have said before, you need to drop the 'if you don't like the outcome it means you want/like the opposite' attitude. Of COURSE I don't want ANYONE to die, let alone via murder -- life is a precious thing. My saying that Ghadafi's murder is not a good thing doesn't mean I agree with what he did to others. You people need to stop being so black and white.

All I'm saying Gadhafi could have avoided a lot of bloodshed by not being so vain, and that I find the view that despite opportunities to end the conflict, there maybe some glory in "fighting to the end" repulsive. Why do I have to agree with that? Nothing to do with polarisation. For the record (and I'm not sure how we got on to this thread, becasue I'm not countering your view), I also do not approve of anyone's murder. Execution is daft - "You killed a man, that is wrong. Therefore I'm going to kill you" - Doesn't quite wash, does it?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Has anyone seen this video? It's really worth a few minutes.

'Libya & Gaddafi - The Truth you are not supposed to know'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XorKTwkFPDU

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Had the rebels never had the backing from NATO then Col Gadhafi would still be in power-this has been a proxy war from the start......

0 ( +2 / -2 )

So he was shot and killed by people who was his civils time ago. He lived for his people, protected them, feed them, teached them... He did absolutely free high education, free medicine, high salaries, cheap gasoline, almost free food... Now look, he was shot by some barbarians, by disrespectful rats, brainwashed western zombies... You will see. This crime won't go away without a trace...

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

If only Zimbabwe was Islamic. Libya, export your fierce will for freedom, and help the whole of Africa. It's GREAT to see Africa doing what needs to be done. So many decades lost to the aftermath of colonalism, go forth, strike true be strong. Peace.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

A minus point to my last video link only a minute or so after posting. Hmmm. That bad man, Gaddafi, nobody should know anything about him other than what's said in the corporate media. But with the video getting 600 likes to 34 dislikes, it seems some people prefer not to listen to ABCNNBCBBC news.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Gaddafi supplied the iRA with weapons and Semtex explosions which killed thousands of people.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I bet Libya ends up being run (taken over) by some radical and extremist Islamic fundamentalist group.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

gyouza: "All I'm saying Gadhafi could have avoided a lot of bloodshed by not being so vain, and that I find the view that despite opportunities to end the conflict, there maybe some glory in "fighting to the end" repulsive."

I agree, but that does not mean I agree with his murder, either. What's more, have you read about how they dragged him out of the drain pipe he was hiding in and tortured and murdered him, "showing him no mercy"? They are really no different than he was, whether they think it was justified or not. He should have agreed to exile several months ago when offered, but alas, he did not. Yes, many lives could have been saved had he done so (although arguably he would have retained a lot of support back home), but clearly these people as well could have shown restraint and not a complete lack of mercy like this.

"Why do I have to agree with that?"

Where did I say you did? My whole point is that there should be no celebrating murder, regardless of the person killed. Be it some Muslims dancing in the streets on 9/11, Americans dancing in the streets on news of Bin Laden's death, Ghadafi, Hussein... doesn't matter -- murder is not a thing to celebrate. Some posters seem to thing it's justified in some cases but heinous in others. Perhaps I was addressing this more to them than directly at you.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@tokyokawasaki - 11:12AM

Tokyokawasaki, you seem clued up about the problem of central banks and fiat money. Perhaps you should also check out what Gaddafi intended to do and, in fact, had been doing for his own people as well as for other Africans. The Libyan bank was free from Rothschild style usury and issued loans interest free.

As for trade, Gaddafi's plan was to ditch the petrodollar in favour of gold dinars, not just for Libya but for the whole of Africa. It was a direct challenge to the PTB in the West and was the main reason for the invasion. The issue of oil and human rights has been used as a distraction.

Interestingly, one of the first things the Nato-backed rebels (aka Al Qaeda) did when they finally managed to get control of Benghaze was to set up a western style central bank. The Libyans suddenly went from freedom to debt slavery.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Rest in peace. Gadhafi, if he do really good thinks in this world, he will be staying in heaven. If he would not, he will stay in hell. Just that easy. No one could "precisely" know whether he is "good" or "not good". by the way, die is the best end of a warrior.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Pulled from a drainpipe?

He must have been looking a bit flushed.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

" It was a direct challenge to the PTB in the West and was the main reason for the invasion. The issue of oil and human rights has been used as a distraction."

Really? I thought it was a genuine civil up-uprising against a mad dog dictator, even though they were being massacred until NATO gave a helping-airstrike.

I seem to remember that was one of the conspiracies for Bush's invasion of Iraq, just replace "gold dinars" for Euros.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

"He must have been looking a bit flushed."

He was definitely in the poop, Nessie.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Really? I thought it was a genuine civil up-uprising against a mad dog dictator, even though they were being massacred until NATO gave a helping-airstrike.

Maybe you're right. But do you have any links for this massacre other than from the usual MSM outlets? And how do Nato airstrikes help when they're targeting civilians? I don't know the number of casualties but I've read it's in the 10s of thousands.

Other possible and more likely reasons…

Libyan Rebels Form Their Own Central Bank

http://www.cnbc.com/id/42308613/Libyan_Rebels_Form_Their_Own_Central_Bank

BENGHAZI, Libya, May 12 (Reuters) - A central bank set up by Libyan rebels has virtually no reserves, but plans to inject dollars into the economy to prop up the Libyan dinar once funds pledged by Western powers arrive, the rebel economy chief said.

http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFBAB22578120110512

Invasion of Libya was About Gaddafi’s Plan to Introduce Gold Dinar

http://www.goldstockbull.com/articles/libya-invasion-gaddafi-plan-gold-dinar/

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Quote from the above article: “This will signal the death of the idea that Arab leaders are invincible,” said Egyptian activist and blogger Hossam Hamalawi. “Mubarak is in a cage, Ben Ali ran away, and now Gadhafi killed. ... All this will bring down the red line that we can’t get these guys.”

Now this is exactly what Bin Ladin and Al Qaida have been urging and fighting for over the last 20 odd years. One of their central aims was to topple the old-school Arab leaders throughout the Arab world.

Now that many of the stops and brakes have been removed... can the Arabs create a better, more mature and wisdom-filled world for the future.?

Let us all, Muslim and non-Muslim together, pray for this.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The civil war in Libya started on Feb 18, after three days of protests. On Mar.6, Gaddafi launched his counter offensive. Mar.17 the UN passed a resolution to impose a no-fly-zone. Mar.19 19 French Air Force planes entered Libyan airspace to begin reconnaissance missions. The same evening 114 Tomahawks were fired at integrated air and ground defense systems. And so on.....

So the civil war started Feb.18 and a month later, on Mar.17 the NATO mission began.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

But do you have any links for this massacre other than from the usual MSM outlets?

weedkilla,

I am always suspicious of those who seek to talk down from their pedastal on high about the evils of the "MSM" while using said MSM (reuters, cnbc, etc like you just did) to make their own points. Thou doth protest too much it seems.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I don't relish seeing anyone bloodied,scared and wounded, be they Osama, Hussein or Gaddafi, paraded around begging for their lives in front of an angry mob. I don't want to see them as they are killed. But you live by the sword, you will surely die by it too, and Gaddafi has been a ruthless dictator for a long time. First Mubarak, now Gaddafi. The Syrians will take heart even though they are being brutally repressed, but I assure you Assad will have taken a couple of big deep gulps and loosened his collar nervously watching this footage, because the same fate surely awaits him next. It truly is an Arab spring.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I do not contend that Ghadafi was a saint but I do propose that wee charges laid against him concerning the mistreatment of his own people were/are false.......

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I am sorta with Tamarama.

In the olden days countries leader, etc were first into the fray, now they sit in a war-room safely way behind the action. No one would have followed them if they didn't.

Gaddafi, etc put it all on the line and died for it. Where would your counties leaders be if they came for them?

This is what we been reduced to now ergo war by proxy ie drones, soldiers, etc and where the people calling for war sit at home comfy with their families.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Now it would be something to see this on the streets of Iran too!!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

He ordered countless men to die needlessly while he sat in his hideout, only to be captured because he ran out of bodies to put between him and the rebels. And when he was found his first words were "don't shoot."

Yep, he really put it all on the line.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@Ben_Jackinoff

Thou doth protest too much it seems.

Maybe. But there's always two sides to a story and it's the MSM which has the bullhorn.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I see the board is full of crazy today.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

But there's always two sides to a story and it's the MSM which has the bullhorn

Above you seemed to think it was good enough to quote. Give it a rest. Nobody's buying.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Triumvere,

True enough. I quite liked it when they were absent for a while.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

a bullet just happened to find itself into his brain during a crazed, testosterone jacked ambulence ride, complete with screaming mobs to Allah. Oh...gee..so sorry...what a surprise! While a trial would have been juicy, I can't honestly say I regret the trajectory of that bullet, whoever the hey fired it.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Wikipedia reports that loans,education and healthcare was largely taken care of by the state

A long time ago I got to meet a young Libyan boy in the UK for an operation to reduce a physical disability. Being very young myself at the time, all I remember was the cheerfulness of that boy. At that time there is no doubt that his care was being funded by the Ghadafi regime.

How many Americans receive free health care or go abroad to receive it?

Ghadafi received imprisonment not a street execution...........

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Ha ha! Gadhafi looks like a stunned old dope in this photo! What happened to his promise to "go out fighting, to the very last bullet...? He actually surrendered, the coward - "Please don't shoot me" were allegedly his last words! What a strongman! Gadhafi - EPIC FAIL!

Next up, we can all dream about this happening to Crazy Kim Jong-Il and his sons...

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

If it was GWB who bragged about a cold-blooded murder like this, the press would all be be in a big huffhuff about it. But for Sarkozy and Obama it is just cool. Hypocrisy pure.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

zichi:

" The civil war in Libya started on Feb 18, after three days of protests. On Mar.6, Gaddafi launched his counter offensive. "

That a silly claim. Firstly, the opposition from Bengazi had been been going of years. Gaddafis supporters are the southern tribes, his opposition the Bengazi tribes. This kind of "civil war" had been happening off and on Libya, like in other Arab countries, for decades. Who are you to pull a date out of thin air and decide that at this date a "war" started?

And if taking sides in internal conflicts is now OK, then how many countries should NATO bomb? Syria? Turkey? Uganda?

Now matter how much lipstick you put on this pig, the fact is, what Sarkozy, Obama, and Cameron did is blatantly illegal. They are war criminals.

And now lets see how the glorious Shariah state they created in Libya will enfold.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

willi,

"If it was GWB who bragged about a cold-blooded murder like this, the press would all be be in a big huffhuff about it. But for Sarkozy and Obama it is just cool. Hypocrisy pure."

I can feel your pain willi, but it's miss directed. Much as you're praying for this situation to turn nasty to reinforce you islamaphobic agenda and your so-called "arab winter", you'll see the rest of us are hoping for the Libyan's to get their acts together and make themselves a better future post-mad dog.

If the press crapped on GWB for opening his mouth it was because he invited all and every ounce of crtique. The flyboy propaganda B/S under the now infamous "mission accomplished" banner, or the growl of "bring 'em on" (which unfortunately they did) spring to mind. This claim is quite ridiculous.

C'mon - stop being so bitter that this isn't playing out as per your paranoid visions of Islamic hoardes on the brow of the hill, and join us in wishing these people, who've fought hard and bitterly, for their newfound freedom.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Weedkilla,

"Maybe you're right. But do you have any links for this massacre other than from the usual MSM outlets?"

My ex-girlfriend's father is an Algerian diplomat. From what I understand the MSM haven't reported yet on the height of the actual attrocities committed by Gadaffi in the early days of the uprising. The bones already uncovered at Abu Salim prison from an earlier, failed uprising are chilling enough.

"And how do Nato airstrikes help when they're targeting civilians? I don't know the number of casualties but I've read it's in the 10s of thousands."

NATO airstrikes do not target civilians, that's simply un-true. Why bring this up? Civillian casualities are most unfortunate, but inevitable. How many civillian casualties would there have been had he been left to quell the country-wide mutiny with his greatly better armed and trained merc army?

"Invasion of Libya was About Gaddafi’s Plan to Introduce Gold Dinar"

There was an invasion of Libya?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

"another huge victory for Obama!... Obama led the Libya invasion"

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Congratulations to the people of Libya for finally winning their independence and congratulations to the UN for a job well done.

Taka

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

WilliB

has usual you bring very little to the table and just your usual dismissive attitude to commentators you don't agree with. I just didn't pull a date from thin air anymore than on another post you accused me of using information from TEPCO and Bloomberg news, and then accusing me of using subversive sites.

That was a date reported by most of the main stream media and while it might be correct that troubles existed prior to that date, the current civil war started after the three days of protests and after Gaddafi's security forces had shot and killed about 17 of the protestors. Who are you to constantly stalk me on this forum always accusing me of something or other? You always post a comment against what I post.

The NATO action was sanctioned by the UN, so you can take it up with them directly instead of me, they have an email address. Out of 124 comment on this post, mine is the only you choose to make a direct remark about?

I don't mind other people disagreeing with me but you have this arrogant, know it all insulting attitude. Recently, since your behavior hovers on the edge of being a troll I was thinking the best way to deal with you was just to ignore you. But I expect you still follow me around, whoof! whoof!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

"Congratulations to the people of Libya for finally winning their independence and congratulations to the UN for a job well done." hahahahah, such ignorance.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

And now lets see how the glorious Shariah state they created in Libya will enfold.

Who cares? If Libyans want to govern themselves by Islamic law that's their choice. Why is the right so paranoid about Shariah? If you don't have to live under it...?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

@YuriOtani

Wonders if the new government will be any better?

I truly wonder that too, my dear friend... (-_-)

2 ( +3 / -1 )

There was no real government before just the Gaddafi dictatorship for 40+ years. He couldn't even trust his own people so he used people from other countries to form his security forces. Whatever happens in Libya in the future hopefully, at least it will be decided by the people.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Madverts,

My ex-girlfriend's father is an Algerian diplomat. From what I understand the MSM haven't reported yet on the height of the actual attrocities committed by Gadaffi in the early days of the uprising. The bones already uncovered at Abu Salim prison from an earlier, failed uprising are chilling enough.

As someone else said, Gaddafi was no angel. But then again, we hear so many lies it's hard to know what's true and what's not. The yellowcake scam or the missing WMD in Iraq is just one example of blatant lies leading to the destruction of an entire country. Also as I asked before, why hasn't Nato intervened to help peaceful demonstrators in Bahrain, for example if they're so concerned about human rights? Or Iraqi and Afghan prisoners being incarcerated without charge? Ask them about human rights. Point is, suggesting that Nato acts in support of human rights is silly.

NATO airstrikes do not target civilians, that's simply un-true. Why bring this up?

Actually, you did! Your quote: "…even though they were being massacred until NATO gave a helping-airstrike." The difference between you and me is that you think it was "a" helping airstrike. Kind of Orwellian don't you think, like war is peace or unadulterated power is kindness. Like I said casualties are in the 10s of thousands and Nato have also been using DU arms. So much for not targeting civilians.

Civillian casualities are most unfortunate, but inevitable. How many civillian casualties would there have been had he been left to quell the country-wide mutiny with his greatly better armed and trained merc army?

Where did you get the information that there was was a "country-wide mutiny?" There is no proof of that. Some people hated Gaddafi for sure but as I pointed out earlier there was at least one rally of roughly 1.5 million people held in Tripoli in support of the man. Google it. Further evidence is the fierce resistance put up by loyalists and civilians to defend themselves from the rebels. A bit difficult though when Nato was bombing the cr@p out of them. And why are civilian casualties inevitable? No war, no casualties!

Today it's Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Pakistan etc, tomorrow it's Syria or Lebanon or Iran or somewhere else. Then this warmongering (or police state) comes home to roost as it's already starting to happen. I don't know about you but I don't particularly look forward to it.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The way this man was killed is shameful and a blight on Libyans. It's an animal act, not justified by the victim's own animal acts; evil does not justify more of it. The end of this appalling regime was done in an appalling manner that Libyans cannot be proud of, but should be ashamed of.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

There are no exact numbers for those who have been by Libyan civil, whether by the rebels, the Gaddafi forces or NATO. Figures vary from 2,000 to 30,000. A total of 12,777 to 16,080 deaths have been reported, of which some have not been independently confirmed, and 4,000 people have been reported as missing.

205-Day Air War: 25,280 NATO Sorties, 9,391 Strike Sorties

http://www.nato.int/nato_static/assets/pdf/pdf_2011_10/20111009_111009-oup-update.pdf

According to Naji Barakat, the health minister in the new Libyan government, at least 30,000 people were killed and 50,000 wounded in Libya’s six-month civil war.

Between Mar.19 to July 13, 1,108 were killed from NATO bombing. From Jul.25 to Oct.12, another 129 people were killed by NATO strikes. That's about 1400 in total.

There are many who would disagree with these figures.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

For all of you lamenting the death of poor old Muammar, keep in mind that not so long ago it was brought forward that he and family had astonishing wealth - we're talking tens of billions in net assets. Do you think he came upon all that money honestly? You're ready to string up the blokes on Wall Street but Gaddafi is all the sudden Mother Theresa who 'gave' his people so much.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Weedkilla,

It's fair to say that in Bahrain there have been protester deaths, but nothing on the scale of Gadaffi's quelling of the initial rebellion. Warehouses full of burnt bodies were found. And they I'm sure are the tip of the iceberg.

I may have mentioned airstrikes, but your comment where you stated that NATO "targetted civillians" civillians is so woefully incorrect it needed pointing out. NATO targetted military prey, if albiet unfortunate civillians were accidently killed.

It was a country-wide mutiny. The regular army capitulated immediately, leaving the wily Gadaffi with his non-Libyan well paid mercanary army that without NATO, would surely have brutaly quashed the rebellion in weeks. This is the whole point of UN intervention. And if I'm wrong, pray tell where these 1.5 million Gadaffi lovers from Tripoli are now?

It reminds me of the elections Saddam held before the invasion, where he was the only candidate, receiving 99% of the vote! I'm sure many turned out through fear of the dictator, and his reprisals, rather than support.

"No war no casualties"?

Gadaffi wasn't playing by those rules. No intervention many casualties too.

Sure the West was acting for oil interests too. But the fact that the mission has been a success so far, and the fact it remains really a Libyan success, made it all the more worthwhile.

Thanks for your comments.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

These so called 'freedom fighters' will breakup to several factions and begin another round of civil war after the death of Gadhafi!

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

What do people think would have happened had NATO not got involved, Gaddafi was already bombing his own people? He promised to kill every rebel and their families including babies and children. Do you think he was joking? Over the year, he had already killed thousands of his own people, like the 1,000+ prisoners he ordered out of the prison and had them machine gunned. In his golden palaces, torture cells were discovered.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

It surprised me the reports that Gaddafi begged for his life as he always said he would die as a martyr, when it comes down to the wire I guess he realised just how precious life is. It is a sad reflection during his reign that he had no respect for the lives of others.His intentions had been that his own family would inherit his position at the end of what he had considered to be a long and unchallanged rule of supremacy, without democracy. His demise is the end of an era, I sincerely hope that what is to follow will be truly democratic, tollerant and just

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Hey, what was the last update you posted to Facebook? That's nice, everyone loves a good cat video. Admiral James Stavridis of NATO just posted his intention to end the war in Libya. Possibly the first war to be ended via social media and definitely the first one to show up next to a Farmville request on your wall.

The Admiral posted the following message on Facebook,

"An extraordinary 24 hours in Libya. As SACEUR, I will be recommending conclusion of this mission to the North Atlantic Council of NATO in a few hours. A good day for NATO. A great day for the people of Libya."

There hasn't been any official announcement from NATO about the end of the war, but chances are they'll Like Adm. Stavridis' post and issue an official statement.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

It surprised me the reports that Gaddafi begged for his life as he always said he would die as a martyr, when it comes down to the wire I guess he realised just how precious life is.

@Christina

I couldn't have said it better. These tyrants always want the world to see them as invincible and in the end, when violence comes to them, they panic at the last minute. They realize their own mortality, a real sad shame.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Civilian cost of NATO victory in Libya

While there are no exact figures on casualties, speaking back in September, the health minister in the new Libyan government estimated that at least 30,000 people had been killed and 50,000 wounded during the first six months of war.

http://rt.com/news/libya-nato-civilian-deaths-323/

0 ( +1 / -1 )

im surprised at the support for the capture/ END to this Dictator. & yeah im in FULL agreement another piece of garbage gone from Earth. these uprisings & dictators over thrown will Show the world these countries & people DO NOT want dictators. I hope they rebuild & Lybia lives in peace & Freedom. some doubt it But hey its what we are hoping for... a better world.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

weedkila,

but only about 1,108 were killed by NATO strikes. It's not a NATO victory, it's a victory by and for the Libyan people.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Sic semper tyrannis. Others should take note.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@zichi

It sounds like you see Nato et al through rose coloured glasses. People who support the Nato killing machine can justify its actions all they want but that doesn't change the fact that the West is invading any country it wants for whatever reason it cooks up and kills millions (over the years). What Gaddafi did or didn't do is none of our freaking business. He certainly never invaded another country, far from it.

You and other arm chair warriors who support this killing machine are in denial and being apologists is not helpful, to say the least. Finally, hasn't humanity been down this invasion road before? And how does it always end?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

weedkila,

I don't see NATO with rose tinted glasses but maybe you are the one who might need to be more realistic especially about your statements. Since when did NATO kill millions? The request for a NATO no-fly zone came from the UN.

The civil war had already started and many rebels stated they would fight to the death. Gaddafi was bombing his own people. I don't know which country you live in? Gaddafi accepted responsibility for the night club bombing in Berlin and paid compensation. He also admitted responsibility for the Lockerbie bombing, I lost a dear friend on that one, and he also paid compensation for that.

The IRA admitted receiving weapons, explosives and cash directly from Gaddafi. Those killed many British people and in case you have forgotten, there were huge explosions in London and other places on mainland Britain.

I'm not an armchair warrior. So you think we should not have been involved and allowed Gaddafi to massacre his own people. Gaddafi stated he would have killed every rebel and their families, including their children.

The NATO action probably help prevent more deaths than what happened.

So please, inform me, what would you have done about the civil war in Libya?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@zichi

but maybe you are the one who might need to be more realistic especially about your statements. Since when did NATO kill millions?

The sentence was ... the West is invading any country it wants for whatever reason it cooks up and kills millions (over the years). Is that not true? Nato and the people behind Nato are a major part of this hegemony, and that includes both economic and hot wars.

The request for a NATO no-fly zone came from the UN.

A no-fly zone is not the same as a prolonged bombing campaign. Russia for one was not happy about this.

I'm sorry to hear that you lost your friend in the Lockerbie bombing but nobody on this board that I'm aware of is claiming that Gaddafi wasn't a bad boy. At the same time there is a lot of disinfo out there and machiavellian tactics used by the Intel agencies and politicians, so does the public know what's really going on?

For example there seems to be much more to the Lockerbie bombing than meets the eye with it coming out that so-called witnesses have been paid off to give false testimony, as well as strong resistance by the establishment to have new evidence blocked at Lockerbie court hearings in recent years. I believe it was this new and potentially damaging evidence that was the real reason the alleged Lockerbie bomber was sent home to Libya for ostensibly "compassionate reasons." Who knows what happened but I'd prefer to remain skeptical.

To be honest I don't know much about the IRA thing and other atrocities that were supposed to have been done by him and his operatives. But it is apparent that he was best of mates with people like Tony Blair or Silvio Berlusconi (birds of a feather?) in more recent times and these incidents from the past should really have nothing to do with this latest campaign.

So you think we should not have been involved and allowed Gaddafi to massacre his own people.

That's right. But do you really believe that Gaddafi was going to massacre his own people? Who are these so-called rebels anyway and who backs them? Further up the board I wrote that it has been admitted that many members are Al Qaeda. If so he has every right to throw them in prison. Massacre is different matter but where is the proof of that?

Gaddafi stated he would have killed every rebel and their families, including their children.

Yep, that's the story, part of the script to pull your heart strings. Just like the fake baby-in-the-incubator psy-op to help get Western audiences to support the first Gulf War. So what's new? Anyway from what I've read it was the rebels who were the wild ones, raping and murdering with abandon in more eastern areas of Libya during the earlier days of the conflict. Depends on where one gets their info, or disinfo as the case may be.

The NATO action probably help prevent more deaths than what happened.

More self-justification. How do you know that?

So please, inform me, what would you have done about the civil war in Libya?

Nothing! Only the MSM sold it as a civil war, or was it an uprising? As I said, it's none of the West's business what goes on in Libya and with all these Arab Spring uprisings happening around the same time it just seems a bit too coincidental. There is certainly evidence that the intel agencies have been involved so who's to say they did not instigate this 'civil war' in Libya?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Weedkila,

no country intervened in The Rwandan Genocide in 1994, and look what happened there, the mass murder of an estimated 800000 people but I suppose you would be alright with that too.

Gaddafi stated on Libyan TV he would kill all the rebels and their families. I believed his intention to do just that when he started bombing his own people.

The civil war was sparked by the "Arab Spring" and 40+ years of brutal rule by Gaddafi. It was the Arab League which asked the UN for a NATO no-fly-zone.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Only the MSM sold it as a civil war, or was it an uprising?

Complaining constantly about the "MSM" while using them as you like to support your theories is rather like a guy complaining about toupees while theirs one their very own head flapping about in the wind. As I said, nobody's buying it.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Historically, many revolutions have needed outside aid to be successful (half the land forces and all the naval forces at the Battle of Yorktown were French: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_ofYorktown%281781%29 - NATO help should in no way undercut or somehow diminish what has happened in Libya.

American Republican vs Democrat "point scoring" over this event is pretty ridiculous. I'm sure the Libyan people don't give a rip.

The likely extralegal execution of Gadhafi is unfortunate, but all too understandable. I suggest anyone bemoaning the fate of Gadhafi first imagine what it must have been like to live under a tyrant for 42 years, to have seen your friends shot by "loyalist" snipers and such, at a time when the ultimate outcome was no longer in doubt. Emotions running high, you wonder?

Oh, and if you're still outraged, feel free to head to Italy, and beat the Italians over the head for the way that poor old Mussolini chap was made to suffer 60 some years ago.

And speaking of Mussolini, just because you "made the trains run on time" doesn't mean you're still not a murderous evil dictator.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

That's right. But do you really believe that Gaddafi was going to massacre his own people? Yes. He has done it before and he would done it again to save his own behind.

What has happened in the Middle East over the past ten years has been nothing less than miraculous. Every time a dictator is overthrown somewhere in the region, there is an increased desire for freedom by the people in other countries living under their own tyrant. An ideal example of the 'demonstration effect'.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Complaining constantly about the "MSM" while using them as you like to support your theories is rather like a guy complaining about toupees while theirs one their very own head flapping about in the wind. As I said, nobody's buying it.

Is that the best you can do? Of course I'm going to use the MSM, isn't that where most of the public get their info and why so many are uninformed and deluded? The MSM have been caught lying or manipulating information time and again to promote an agenda. How do I know this? The reason they have been exposed is because others have quoted their stories against the actual situation and it becomes clear what's going on.

An example: I mentioned in my first post that al-Hasidi, the Libyan rebel leader, was reported by the media as being Al Qaeda with the Telegraph saying he fought against the West in Afghanistan. The fact that Nato employs Al Qaeda operatives seems strange enough, but then he was given space in the Guardian to write an op-ed. Why?

In this case the Guardian clearly showed they are not impartial and that they support Nato's agenda. Doesn't matter that the guy is a murderer who has probably killed Nato or US troops, yet the Guardian dutifully lets him have his say because he now supports the West. So I use the MSM to show these disparities and to point out that the corporate media is often not to be trusted.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

For all of you lamenting the death of poor old Muammar, keep in mind that not so long ago it was brought forward that he and family had astonishing wealth

What does his wealth have to do with it? I am "lamenting" on these freedom fighters killing him and celebrating about. Celebrate life, freedom but don't expect me to celebrate the death of someone. Nor respect anyone who is going to prop a man up on a car and parade him around before his death, kick him and let him bleed to death and then set up a roadside attraction to see his body. Do you think these people are going to make a free and fair government with all this crap? I certainly don't. I feel for the good people of Libya. The honest people. The people who want freedom and a fair government. Not those hell bent on revenge.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I predict soon the Middle East will be the leaders of democracy and that citizens in the USA will be look to them for guidance on how wrest control back from the 1%.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Ranger, I wish. The "leader" of Libya is on the BBC right now getting grilled about the way Gadhafi died. If you think elections in these areas are going to be fair and the people will be free and happy, you really need to take a look at what is happening in Egypt right now. We'll see how things going in Tunisia with the upcoming election. I hope I am wrong but I don't see these countries being stable for many, many years to come.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

For sure the action was a war in part waged by the western powers.

The UK Telegraph quotes

"Just then, the French pilot began his bombing run, seconds later releasing two 500lb GBU-12 laser-guided bombs, into the centre of the convoy.

The bombs unleashed massive force. Arriving at the site, a few hours later, their devastating power was clear to see: at least a dozen vehicles were shredded and burned out, while I counted more than 25 bodies, some lying twisted and charred inside the vehicles and others lying in clumps nearby. "

The logistical and air support including helicopters have all been provided by the UK,France, the US etc.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

weedkila,

The what really happened site is anti-semitic trash. Why JT continues to let such links be allowed is beyond me. You talk about the Guardian and then claim that it reflects the 'MSM'. Could it not be that it merely refects the Guardian?

You use the 'MSM' and the facts they presents as facts when it suits your purpose. Then when they don't suit your purpose, you claim everything they write is lies.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Fellow posters: These are hard times indeed. There are no easy solutions either. There's one thing I learned from all the bloodshed we've been exposed to over the past decades. My science teacher in high school never told me about this energy source - it's called hate / war. I never realized that it was a self-sustaining energy that pulls all of us into it, we give it energy and at the same time it destroys us. All the issues that we have against each other fuel it. Our issues are not the center of it. At the core of war is hate itself.

With each stroke of a pen, each tap of a key we propel it. A hand raised, a clinched fist we instigate it. Once the war begins it takes on a life of it's own, warping and corrupting everything around it. It transfers itself into every type of entity, greed, desire, jealousy, hatred, pride, vanity, ambition. It is the one enemy that the world must come together to defeat. It is unidentifiable, it is not one single person. War itself weaves a web of complexity unlike any spider. That web, which has deception as it's fabric is woven just like the collection of mixed emotions that created war in the first place.

Fellow readers, this man's death is no victory. Even Obama knows this as he's one of the most educated Presidents America has ever been lucky enough to have. When I post, I usually make it worth my while. My first post in this thread was the most accurate. It would appear that the thirst for blood has not been quenched. Even here, on JT, we can see by some posts that there are those who are ready to give this monster, this cyclone of hate that leads to war, more energy.

This is one thread that JT, if it had act responsibly, should have deleted. What the world needs right now is a moment of silence.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

@myself: I bet Libya ends up being run (taken over) by some radical and extremist Islamic fundamentalist group.

Yep. I was right. They are now entering the dark ages.... Won't be long before terrorists cells pop up all over the place...

New Libyan gov't to embrace Sharia law http://www.japantoday.com/category/world/view/new-libyan-govt-to-embrace-sharia-law

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Tokyo, looks like you and I both called it. Not going to be a happy place for women and minorities. Anyone paying attention saw the writing on the wall. Hoping the smart women get out ASAP. Same goes for Egypt.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I guess the next target is Iran....

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The U.S. and western intervention in Libya is grossly hypocritical. It's that such double standards are an integral part of a mechanism of global power and domination that stifles hopes of any credible international system of human rights protection. The humanitarian intervention, such as in Libya, is certainly not based on feasibility or the degree of suffering or repression, but on whether the regime carrying it out is a reliable ally or not. For U.S. and Europe, intervention in the Libyan conflict offers both the chance to put themselves to secure their oil interests in a deeply uncertain environment.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Gaddafi and the rebals are good example of Sheria law. Both of them will go Heaven. It is Islam...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I suppose Gaddafi was assassinated, as opposed to dying in battle or being executed, but there's no real way to tell for sure because it happened on the spur of the moment after he was captured. Someone hurt Gaddaffi fatally.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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