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Coronavirus origins still a mystery 3 years into pandemic

37 Comments
By LAURA UNGAR and MARY CLARE JALONICK

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Made in a lab in China.

19 ( +29 / -10 )

No matter how many times he changes his story, I will always believe what Dr. Fauci says.

-11 ( +9 / -20 )

eluded governments and health agencies

Well, governments and health agencies never did care about any scientific facts in the first place. (One can draw a parallel here with Ukraine. We still don't have many facts, apart from lies from both sides of the camp.)

7 ( +17 / -10 )

Of course it leaked from the Wuhan lab.

Nicholas Wade's article 2 years ago scientifically proved the same.

https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-people-or-nature-open-pandoras-box-at-wuhan

But since this hypothesis of it being a man-made virus from China was the same as what a certain much-reviled President was saying, anyone who tried to support it was discredited outright as a 'right wing extremist'.

16 ( +24 / -8 )

Well, during the very 1st stage China stopped all domestic flights while urged international carriers to maintain their flying schedules.

This tells you everything you need to know about this virus origins.

6 ( +15 / -9 )

1968 Hong Kong Flu, China.

1997 Human transmission of Avian Flu, China.

2002 Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS), China.

2019 COVID-19, Wuhan, China.

Need I say more.

12 ( +19 / -7 )

The Department of Truth (1984) strikes again, deciding on a "new truth". We are now fighting China. Tomorrow it could be India, depends if they start advancing more than we want them, who knows..

Oh and please delete all entries of the "previous truth" that we released around 2020. It is easier these days and very sustainable (trendy nowadays) as we dont have to rewrite all the books, just edit some online posts. If something is left as record anyway we just call it misinformation.

What? On 2020 the story of virus coming from China labs (funded by US) was misinformation. Oh you are just left behind that was the "previous misinformation".

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

Oh now that intelligence says it was a lab leak not the previously 1000% confirmed narrative- it’s a “mystery”

3 ( +14 / -11 )

@Siniestro.

Eh? Maybe you are trying to make too many points all at once.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

But since this hypothesis of it being a man-made virus from China was the same as what a certain much-reviled President was saying, anyone who tried to support it was discredited outright as a 'right wing extremist'.

Truth.

It's really fascinating how we can keep saying "He was right all the time" every single time for years, even to this very day.

Coronavirus still a mystery? Not for me.

This Sky News Australia investigative documentary alone was done by the middle of 2021, its available on Youtube.

SPECIAL INVESTIGATION: What Really Happened in Wuhan

2 ( +6 / -4 )

So, to be clear, it has been proved that this virus escaped from a lab?

I missed that in the article.

another “conspiracy theory” that was true all along

Ah, the very man. You can point out the facts telling us this.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

At the beginning of the Covid crisis I was watching an interview on JRE with. Virus specialists. He was ask where the virus originated from. There is 2 from the wet market or the the Novel virus lab in the same town. Then he had I hope it from the wet market because if it was produced and escaped from the lab that would be the worst but all protocols in working with viruses in Lab will have be reviewed and that will put us back a decade because new protocols will have have to replace the old protocols in every lab in the world and that will take close to a decade. Then he start talking up the wet market theory. As soon has this scientist went off tangent I knew then it came from a lab. Since then the lab theory has been classed as conspiracy theories and wet market theory promote. Like not to see hear look over there the wet market but there a big problem with that because in nature it has to have humid temperatures to start of and there has on trace or indicaters show this in south China not one bit of evidence. It must started in the Lab

3 ( +8 / -5 )

I missed that in the article. 

Article: “the U.S. Department of Energy has assessed with “low confidence” in that it began with a lab leak”

and also previously the FBI with medium confidence.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

So, to be clear, it has been proved that this virus escaped from a lab?

Read the below from WSJ.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-origin-china-lab-leak-807b7b0a

A certain cohort will cling to their stand even when all evidence is in their face, because it will mean that what they earlier debunked as a conspiracy theory promoted by right wing nutjobs was actually true all along.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

With low confidence? That was all crystal clear right from the beginning.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Made in a lab in China.

Baseless claims from nameless people on the internet do absolutely nothing to clarify the issue.

No matter how many times he changes his story, I will always believe what Dr. Fauci says.

Zero times is a good enough number.

Of course it leaked from the Wuhan lab.

Nicholas Wade's article 2 years ago scientifically proved the same.

No it did not, first because it provides zero scientific proof, just personal opinions and misrepresentations, and second because many of his conclusions have been repeatedly disproved by actual scientific evidence, some of which was even available before he wrote his opinion. There is a reason why the actual scientific institutions of the world still consider the natural origin the hugely more likely explanation.

Well, during the very 1st stage China stopped all domestic flights while urged international carriers to maintain their flying schedules.

This tells you everything you need to know about this virus origins.

Not really, it only says that China was aware it had a serious situation but choose to pretend it didn't for economic profit.

Oh now that intelligence says it was a lab leak not the previously 1000% confirmed narrative- it’s a “mystery”

No, intelligence claims something without offering any evidence or scientific proof. The lack of a clear, characterized chain of events and specific viral ancestor is what makes the origin the mystery, the lab origin is still considered one of the least likely explanations compared with the obvious one that is shared with every single pandemic in human history.

Saying there is "proof" of the lab origin is still a conspiracy, the actual evidence clearly says this is not even remotely likely

https://mobile.twitter.com/angie_rasmussen/status/1629938451628843010

the DOE has to explain how the virus emerged twice over 2 wks in humans at the same market the size of a tennis court, over 8 km & across a river from the only lab in Wuhan working on SARSr-CoVs.

Absolutely no evidence has been offered that could contradict the current best likely scenario according to science

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8715

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8337

 As soon has this scientist went off tangent I knew then it came from a lab. 

That only demonstrates a bias, as soon as this scientist explained a theory you were not prepared to accept then immediately you decided it was a tangent. That is exactly the opposite of the actual scientific method, where evidence is the one that decides the conclusions, meanwhile antiscientific bias decides what must be true and ignores or hides anything that puts this predefined conclusion at risk.

-11 ( +9 / -20 )

It's a mystery because people want it to be one?

8 ( +11 / -3 )

This is a mealy mouthed way of saying it came from the lab. "Low confidence" is such an obvious tell.

2 ( +10 / -8 )

“Noting is more terrible than to see ignorance in action.” . . . Goethe

You can thank China for that.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

virusrexToday  01:26 pm JST

Made in a lab in China.

Baseless claims from nameless people on the internet do absolutely nothing to clarify the issue.

Referring to yourself? As my claim is based on---get this--the article.

You're in company though--China is in agreement with you;

China has called the suggestion that COVID-19 came from a Chinese laboratory “ baseless.”

3 ( +10 / -7 )

It is indeed a mystery because no scientist, doctor, or virologist has ever isolated CoVid19 so if there is no evidence it exists, maybe it doesn’t. What then makes people sick if it isn’t a virus? Simple - it is a bio weapon they have used against humanity. It can also be the common flu that they have rebranded to increase the number of cases.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

There is a reason why the actual scientific institutions of the world still consider the natural origin the hugely more likely explanation.

No, the reason scientific institutions promote the natural origin theory instead of admitting that scientific evidence points to a lab leak is because it will lead to a scrutiny of the funding that virologists receive, and how much of safety protocols they follow while doing (or outsourcing) gain of function research.

It's as clear as daylight. Just like banksters did not initially admit that the financial crisis was caused by creation of exotic financial instruments like mortgage backed securities backed by credit default swaps because it would have led to regulation, the virologists will never admit that the gain of function research led to this virus running havoc all over the world.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

Alina Chan, a molecular biologist at the Broad Institute of Massachusetts Institute of Technology and Harvard, said she isn’t sure what new intelligence the agencies had, but “it’s reasonable to infer” it relates to activities at the Wuhan Institute of Virology in China. 

Listen to the actual experts.

0 ( +9 / -9 )

The lies are getting exposed.

This is just the start, there will be a massive reckoning.

We’re talking about the biggest scandal in human history unraveling in front of our very eyes

Getting a bit hysterical again there.

Best wait for conclusive evidence before getting all grandiose.

-2 ( +9 / -11 )

No, the reason scientific institutions promote the natural origin theory instead of admitting that scientific evidence points to a lab leak is because it will lead to a scrutiny of the funding that virologists receive, and how much of safety protocols they follow while doing (or outsourcing) gain of function research.

Making up a conspiracy theory when the scientific consensus do not support your personal belief is not an argument, it is an excuse. What is clear is that you are not even making any effort to actually discuss the scientific evidence that proves the likelyhood of the natural origin, so instead want to push a completely unproved conspiracy that includes every scientific and medical institution of the world. Even when finding that actually lead to more scrutiny of the funding of those institutions are routinely reported, with most of those reports based on claims (with actual evidence) from scientist.

Listen to the actual experts.

Since this expert do not say the theory is more likely because of the new evidence (only guesses what would this new evidence would be) and the actual experts quoted clearly say the natural origin is the one that has the stronges evidence to support it this means the lab leak is still the much less likely explanation.

Or as the experts say:

In a 2021 research paper in the journal Cell, scientists said the COVID-19 virus is the ninth documented coronavirus to infect humans — and all the previous ones originated in animals.

Two studies, published last year by the journal Science, bolstered the animal origin theory. That research found that the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan was likely the early epicenter. Scientists concluded that the virus likely spilled from animals into people two separate times.

“The scientific literature contains essentially nothing but original research articles that support a natural origin of this virus pandemic," said Michael Worobey, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Arizona who has extensively studied COVID-19's origins.

-8 ( +7 / -15 )

Non-scientific personal "opinion."

The expert in the article say this, trying to pretend the whole section of "support for animal theory" is not something written by the experts do make it clear your intention is not to listen to the actual experts but baselessly claim they are wrong.

-9 ( +7 / -16 )

It's as clear as daylight. Just like banksters did not initially admit that the financial crisis was caused by creation of exotic financial instruments like mortgage backed securities backed by credit default swaps because it would have led to regulation, the virologists will never admit that the gain of function research led to this virus running havoc all over the world.

Except the banks still got bailed out by governments using the public treasury.

If the virologists are proven wrong they will be hung out to dry.

While billionaires and financial markets still prospered from public stimulus during the pandemic.

https://www.businessinsider.com/billionaires-net-worth-increases-coronavirus-pandemic-2020-7

Funny how that work out innit?

Almost a class consistently fail forward and are immune from consequences.

Unlike scientists who are accountable.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

New intelligence has come into play. The intelligence analysts made a low confidence assessment based on evidence, highly incomplete but still evidence so anyone claiming there is no evidence does not have a mind for science.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

New intelligence has come into play. The intelligence analysts made a low confidence assessment based on evidence, highly incomplete but still evidence so anyone claiming there is no evidence does not have a mind for science.

There is no evidence presented, only claims of having it, as long as it not presented for proper evaluation by actual scientists this is nothing.

What if someone claims they have evidence this is just a political move by republicans and the intelligence analysts have nothing new? would this be then enough for you to accept there is evidence of such manipulation?

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

it relates to activities at the Wuhan Institute of Virology in China. She said a 2018 research proposal co-authored by scientists there and their U.S. collaborators “essentially described a blueprint for COVID-like viruses.”

This is the part - and they’re US collaborators - that they are trying to distance themselves from, not to mention the US funded these Chinese labs.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Since this expert do not say the theory is more likely because of the new evidence (only guesses what would this new evidence would be)

Completely wrong.

It is in fact the new intelligence that was used by the Dept. of Energy analysts.

And the report indicates these analysts made their assessments because of evidence.

Therefore, you are just making baseless claims and trying to defend the CCP's version.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

New intelligence has come into play. The intelligence analysts made a low confidence assessment based on evidence, highly incomplete but still evidence so anyone claiming there is no evidence does not have a mind for science

You would need to consider the evidence itself and who is making the assessment. As pointed out, people making assessments are not always necessarily qualified to do so.

Not as simple as you put forward.

I’d say best to keep an open mind on this rather than letting political agendas leading you to believe that this is now settled like some are doing here.

That is people with no mind for science.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

From the beginning, everyone has been interested in where the virus originated. This was not a left-right thing.

At the time, the most likely cause was a natural transmission. It is true that initally the lab leak theory was deamed unlikely.

Interestingly enough, while the GQP wants to dump on Fauchi on this, I watched his testimony on the issue this morning and he said "I don't think that it leaked from a lab but it is certainly possible." while remaining open to new evidence.

Frustration with Chinese reluctance to transparently share data has also not been something that has been the exclusive perview of the GQP. It has been obvious to all from the beginning that the Chinese are hiding something.

What is not obvious is:

Did this really leak from a lab? This ONE intel agency acesses with low confidence. No other intel agency has changed its view yet?

How much did the Chinese govt know? Were they too in the dark? Were they decieived by local officials? Did they cover it up (I think so)? Unfortunately we will never know because the truth would make the CCP look very VERY bad.

What is NOT true is that:

There is any proof that the Chinese were experimenting wth the virus for a bio-weapon. If this became proven, that would completely re-set the US-PRC relationship at all levels.

Nor is there any evidence that "the Left" was trying to cover this (if it indeed is proven to be true) up.

What IS obvious is that there was a whole host of people who said:

This is a "China Virus" and who without evidence claimed that is was an escaped (or released bio-weapon).

That masks don't work (they do) and that they were a conspiracy to take away liberty (they weren't).

That a broad range of looney cures were broached by these people including horse de-wormer and ( I wish this were a joke) bleach.

That the vaccine was a hoax. That it was harmful. That is put microchips in your body (All laughably false).

-7 ( +6 / -13 )

And while we are at it.

Under which administration was all this disinformation released? Which administration failed to really hold the Chinese accountable until it was too late?

Oh that would be the Trump admin. Later on, when the cat was out of the bag, he was all over "THE CHINA VIRUS" which lead to a spat of hate-crimes.... But when it mattered, Donald was down with how "Powerfullly" Xi had dealt with it.

Which information continued to push until this as yet unproven finding was arrived at AND released it to the public in a timely manner?

Oh, that would be the Biden admin.

-6 ( +8 / -14 )

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