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Couples flogged for public affection in Indonesia's Aceh

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Different culture, blah, blah, blah...

This is insane...

30 ( +34 / -4 )

Very modern thinking. It's hardly confusing as to why Muslims are easily used to whip up ignorance-driven fear amongst non-Muslims.

7 ( +13 / -6 )

Just added to my list of places on earth where I will not pay a visit!

36 ( +38 / -2 )

In cases like this, stuff cultural differences.

If you believe - objectively - that "public canoodling" (aka a show of affection) in a public place is an unnatural display of immorality, if it's your considered opinion that being flogged in public and serving several months in jail is an appropriate punishment for two people showing affection towards one another where other people can see it, then Aceh is the place for you.

We don't make cultural allowances for other countries where they suppress the rights of women or have the death penalty for relatively minor crimes. So we shouldn't here.

15 ( +18 / -3 )

No craziness from the medieval Muslim world shocks me anymore. Meh....

11 ( +16 / -5 )

 "the practice has wide support among Aceh's population. About 98 percent of the region's five million residents are Muslim subject."

That makes sense.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

The locals are entitled to preserve their way of life.

This law also protects woman's rights as it teaches men not to use woman for sex.

-33 ( +5 / -38 )

This website has terrible moderators, telling someone to seek professional help because they are narrow minded seems to "Break the rules" as Reason of removal: Impolite to other user.. 

The comment was impolite to the user at whim ut was directed. At least the mods got that correct.

Message to the moderators GET A LIFE you suck at your job. No matter how many times you remove comments you can't stop freedom of speech. You should be fired immediately.

You clearly don't understand what freedom of speech means.

-7 ( +8 / -15 )

This law also protects woman's rights as it teaches men not to use woman for sex.

You can't seriously be claiming such a strict Muslim place does anything to preserve women's rights.

Women can decide for themselves whether they are available for sexual use by men. Why do you want so much governmental control?

14 ( +18 / -4 )

Just one more piece of evidence in support of the claim that the overwhelming number of people suffering under conservative Muslim tyranny and oppression are normal, decent Muslims.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Barbaric.

15 ( +17 / -2 )

This law also protects woman's rights as it teaches men not to use woman for sex.

What? It protects men who want to control all aspects of women's lives. Misogyny is protected in cultures like theirs - and others under male dominated, authoritarian rule. How's P*ssy Riot being treated in their male dominated, authoritarian state.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Heathens.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

"But we keep telling visitors not to be afraid to visit Banda Aceh... because you won't be flogged if you don't break the law," he said.

Yeah. Sure. OK.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

Barbaric.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

Sharia law has no place in a modern western style society. Barbaric just like the beheadings in Saudi and the gay hangings in Iran.

11 ( +14 / -3 )

I'm nervous because this is the first time I've seen something like this," said visitor Muhammad Rushdy. "But it can serve as an important lesson for us from other countries to comply with local regulations.

What a spineless waste of oxygen. Don’t breed.

Anyway, if he liked it, he should be aware that this depraved form of public entertainment/education is available back home in Malaysia.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Do not travel to third world Muslim countries. There are more beautiful countries in the world

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Yes, but let's import half the Muslim world into Europe, surely they won't implement Sharia law when they have a sizable enough population.

3 ( +10 / -7 )

What's with all this Islamophobia?

-13 ( +4 / -17 )

Turn this into the new tourism poster for Indonesia.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Indonesia's President Joko Widodo has called for it to end, but the practice has wide support among Aceh's population.

Why even be a president if you can't stop something you disapprove of in a very small area of your country?

9 ( +9 / -0 )

I read this morning that Indonesia is going to criminalize sex out of wedlock.

What a mess that country is. Tourism: finished. I wouldn’t go there if I were single. SE Asia is a big place.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

It's hardly confusing as to why Muslims are easily used to whip up ignorance-driven fear amongst non-Muslims.

While this barbaric practice supports your statement, you could easily replace "Muslims" with just about any group. Nothing to feel superior about.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

How backwards..

7 ( +9 / -2 )

While this barbaric practice supports your statement, you could easily replace "Muslims" with just about any group. Nothing to feel superior about

Agreed, but this article is about a barbaric Muslim practice.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

This is Aceh, the most extremist Muslim region of Indonesia. Some people commenting here are making the assumption that all Muslim Indonesians agree with this cruel and unusual punishment. They should take note of the last para:

Rights groups have slammed public caning as cruel, and Indonesia's President Joko Widodo has called for it to end, but the practice has wide support among Aceh's population.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Its their community and if they want whipping rather than jail its their business. Don't like it? Don't live there.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

Its their community and not yours.

So what? We shouldn't comment on any society or country which we are not citizens of or don't live in?

Criticism can actually lead to changes which happened with the Sultan of Brunei who introduced stoning for GAYS but after international outrage withdrew the order.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Living in Aceh? Feel like showing affection to your partner in public?

Sorry, no choice. No option. You can't do it.

But if you do do it, you'll be glad to know you have a choice of punishment, whipping or jail.

Don't like it? It's not your community. It's theirs.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

"But it can serve as an important lesson for us from other countries to comply with local regulations."

No it's not.

I am all about observing other cultures being mindful and coherent. However, this is way over the top. In 1948 Britain abandoned flagellation. Countries like Malaysia and the one in the story Indonesia's Aceh Province, where it is more common to be flogged obviously have not come around yet. Wake up. It's stupid and violent. Counties still involved in this type of punishment need to wake up and put a more suitable form of punishment in place. However being punished for canoodling. Won't be taking my wife to Aceh Province anytime soon. Yeah No,Thanks.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Just because the law is the law doesn't mean the law is "right".

While most in the Western world fault "Christianity" for the limits on personal freedom, it is clear in the 21st century that the religion infringing person freedom is Islam.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Aceh province in a semi autonomous region of Indonesia with its own government. They wanted to break away from Indonesia years ago and this is the compromise they reached with the central government in Jakarta. That’s why the Indonesian President has very little, if any, power to stop the implementation of Sharia law.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Nasty abuse from an very uncivilized and medieval cult. The world would be a friendlier and safer place without them.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Do not travel to third world Muslim countries. There are more beautiful countries in the world.

Many of these places have real beauty. Adherence to religious ideas vandalizes and degrades these places. This is tragic.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

"Islamic law"

That's gonna have to be rolled back. No excuse for imposing religious beliefs and rules on everyone.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

More investigation into these floggings via YouTube etc revealed the following:

-The canes used are considerably thinner and weaker than I imagined.

-The force used was moderate.

-The offenders/victims wore relatively loose clothing that softened the impact.

-The offenders/victims, while in pain, did not seem to be in unbearable agony.

-The offenders/victims had a choice between jail, a fine and flogging.

-It looked more like a very painful public humiliation rather than a brutal flogging.

I still completely condemn it as wrong and that punishment for public affection is also wrong. But I just want to clarify the facts of what we are actually discussing.

Let the discussion continue.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Yeah. If you have pro-Christian tinted glasses on. You are used to what you were raised with, and they are used to what they were raised with. Some of us have the ability to see all this with a more balanced eye, as if we were aliens from another planet seeing this all for the first time. And believe me, I often do feel like an alien from another planet. Beam up Scotty. Not much intelligent life here!

Utter bollocks.

Virtually every place that has personal freedom restrictions in place due to Christian-based norms is seeing those restrictions challenged / overturned.

The only places where this is not the case is where those restrictions are rooted in Islam.

Prove me wrong.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

How very Medieval! I'm shocked....

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Do not travel to third world Muslim countries. There are more beautiful countries in the world

Been to quite a few of these so called 'backwards/third world Muslim countries' and saw some of the most beautiful natural landscapes & architecture i've ever seen. Also met the most incredibly generous, helpful & hospitable ppl.

Pakistan's the only country where locals invited me & my partner to their house, insisted (understatement) on paying for lunch/coffee every time we met (multiple times in different cities/regions) and didn't ask nor expect anything in return. Pure generosity & thoughtfulness.

So yes 'those' countries do have their own issues but to say that they & their ppl are not worth our time and attention is pretty silly imo.

Each to their own i guess.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@Norman Goodman

if they want whipping rather than jail

according to AFP

They had all served several months in prison.

So no, you get the two.

Don't like it? Don't live there.

I did not know you were a noborder. It is not so easy to relocate.

@ Concerned Citizen

via YouTube etc

Some random YouTube channel and unknow etc is sure a reliable source of information ...

So the earth is flat, the world is ruled by humanoid lizard living underground near the earth center since it is round but flat but round but flat and on the top of a turtle.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@Serrano

No excuse for imposing religious beliefs and rules on everyone.

I would agree with your statement in regards to theocratic societies. That is what they do, such as in Banda Aceh. However, in democracies every person has the right to voice an opinion and vote accordingly regardless whether secular or religious. If we are honest, both the secular and religious are trying to shape society according to their world view. It's an even playing field.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

So no, you get the two.

@Flute Thank you for pointing that out. I did indeed miss that detail. Regardless, I was aware they were not given any choices, I was just saying whipping is a valid choice and a valid punishment. And even if I did not think so, given the commonality of the death penalty all over the world, and even inordinate jail sentences, complaints about whipping are truly ignoring the elephant in the room to whine about how much space the dog takes up.

The only places where this is not the case is where those restrictions are rooted in Islam.

Prove me wrong.

This is one small corner of Indonesia and the rest not as strict. Singapore is mostly Buddhist and Christian, still has whipping and is very strict about many things including chewing gum. Walking around in your own home naked is illegal there. Turkey is majority Muslim but secular. Saudi Arabia has recently allowed women to drive and vote among other things. Meanwhile American Christians are actively turning back the clock on abortion due to religious beliefs, and their opposition to gay marriage is still strong. Its a mixed bag. And I don't think you are half as free as you may think you are. You just got used to the particular set of chains you wear.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

If we are honest, both the secular and religious are trying to shape society according to their world view.

You can be religious and secular. The two need not be in opposition.

Keep religion to the private sphere. The idea of imposing religious law on non-religion people or people of other religions is unacceptable. Many religious people are able to see this.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

What's with all this Islamophobia?

Pointing out the repugnance of these acts is not islamaphobia.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

@Jimizo

Keep religion to the private sphere. The idea of imposing religious law on non-religion people or people of other religions is unacceptable. Many religious people are able to see this.

If you're saying that you don't want laws passed mandating religious practice, then I completely agree. Eg: Instituting blasphemy laws, laws that we must all pray 5 times a day, or attend religious services, etc.

If you're saying religious people cannot be guided by their religious convictions to voice an opinion or vote accordingly in a democratic society, I don't agree. Eg: Someone believes that it's immoral to kill and therefore opposes war, abortion, the death penalty, etc.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The world really needs to stop posting these things on their media. When I say "the world" I'm referring of course to the non-Islam world. Islam needs to be ignored

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

If you're saying religious people cannot be guided by their religious convictions to voice an opinion or vote accordingly in a democratic society, I don't agree. Eg: Someone believes that it's immoral to kill and therefore opposes war, abortion, the death penalty, etc.

I honestly think voting based on religion is a degradation of the vote, but of course people should be allowed to do it.

As for being guided by religion in politics, that’s fine as long as the arguments made are based on reason rather than supposed revelation. Saying something is right or wrong because god/Moses/Jesus/Mohammed or whoever said so deserves to be ignored in a sensible conversation.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

This is literal islam for you. Aceh has Shariah, and Indonesias muslim majority is consistently voting to change the constitution (pancasila) and include ever more Shariah laws.

Nothing particular Indonesian or Aceh about this.... Shariah in Aceh is the same as Shariah in ISIS land, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

StrangerlandToday 10:31 am JST

I read this morning that Indonesia is going to criminalize sex out of wedlock.

What a mess that country is. Tourism: finished. I wouldn’t go there if I were single. SE Asia is a big place.

The vast majority of tourists are going to Bali, which is majority Hindu and does NOT have Sharia.

Fewer, but some visit other places in Indonesia, which are majority muslim but do NOT have Sharia because they adher to the Indonesian secular constitution (Pancasila). Although gradually, Indonesia is caving ever more to demands to change that.

I have not heard of ANY tourists going to Aceh, which was granted full sharia after fighting a brutal civil war, including terrorism, to ge that. Maybe there are some, but they are those who have no problem with Shariah.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@Jimizo

I honestly think voting based on religion is a degradation of the vote

Agreed if the religous idea is legalistic, outrageous, etc. I disagree if the religious idea is helpful to all, eg: Love your neighbor as yourself.

but of course people should be allowed to do it.

Agreed.

As for being guided by religion in politics, that’s fine as long as the arguments made are based on reason rather than supposed revelation. Saying something is right or wrong because god/Moses/Jesus/Mohammed or whoever said so deserves to be ignored in a sensible conversation.

Agreed. There ought to be a good reason behind any religious based political or other viewpoint.

Good=All people are made in the image of God and deserve equal rights, therefore we should have income equality, help the poor, etc.

Bad: Islam mandates the burqa, so all women should wear it.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The vast majority of tourists are going to Bali, which is majority Hindu and does NOT have Sharia

And? That doesn’t seem to matter at all:

Bali tourists could soon be jailed for six months for having consensual sex if they are not married.

The ban on extramarital sex will be introduced under amendments to the country's criminal code that appear set to pass within the week.

Living together outside of wedlock, providing contraception to children under 18, the abortion pill and insulting the president will also be crimes punishable by jail terms in Indonesia under the proposed changes.

The 1.2 million Australians who visit Bali annually will not be exempt from the strict laws, which would be introduced in the next two years once they are pass parliament. 

Link: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.9news.com.au/article/56cde519-25e7-4142-b89e-05115e6d1479

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Nasty abuse from an very uncivilized and medieval cult. The world would be a friendlier and safer place without them.

Been saying that about all the monolithic faith systems for years.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

What's with all this Islamophobia?

JT demographic, mate. You can explain that not all Muslims are anything like the stereotypes and the headbangers but that'll be ignored.

Far easier to promote and perpetuate the hate.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The ban on extramarital sex will be introduced under amendments to the country's criminal code that appear set to pass within the week.

The 1.2 million Australians who visit Bali annually will not be exempt from the strict laws

Bali is a hedonist paradise for Australian tourists (that's why I haven't been there)

No extramarital sex? What about alcohol? Why do the Indonesian authorities think Aussies go to Bali?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

strangerland:

Bali tourists could soon be jailed for six months for having consensual sex if they are not married.

So, Indonesian muslim activists have scored another small victory. That is way it is going. Still, comparing that to the complete, literal Shariah have in Aceh is more than a little disingenious.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@WilliB

This is literal islam for you.

Well, more precisely Salafi/Wahabi Islam. Islam is actually a fairly broad church, with a lot of disagreement over interpretation, but this is the stuff that the Saudi's are promoting/exporting, and the habits, like niqab, cultural to them/Arab culture.

Equally important to factor into the equation is how the right wing/shariah mob rose to ascendancy within Indonesia and for that you've got to look to Uncle Sam and the CIA funding and supporting their brand of terrorism for the sake of US interests.

@Burning Bush

This law also protects woman's rights as it teaches men not to use woman for sex.

What are women supposed to use for sex?

Note the article is discussing "mutual affection".

Back to the goats then, bros?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

As in "mutual affection" rather than public sex.

They hugged or held hands.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

comparing that to the complete, literal Shariah have in Aceh is more than a little disingenious.

So is inferring I did so when I clearly didn’t. What do you have to say for yourself?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

pacificwest:

Well, more precisely Salafi/Wahabi Islam. Islam is actually a fairly broad church, with a lot of disagreement over interpretation,

Of course there are different sects, but the Koran and the Haddith are what they are, and if you take them literally, you get the same everywhere. Radical Shia shariah is not different from Saudi shariah.

Note that more moderate branches like the Ismailis and Ahmediyya (which are incidentally persecuted in Indonesia) have other fundamentals beside the Koran and Haddith.

I understand the wish to dismiss the effects of the basic scriptures, but they are what they are.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

ts their community and if they want whipping rather than jail its their business. Don't like it? Don't live there.

Great, so the world should overlook barbaric behavior in the name of religious beliefs!

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Great, so the world should overlook barbaric behavior in the name of religious beliefs!

Yep. Otherwise, you will accused of "...phobia".

0 ( +2 / -2 )

It’s weird that to mistake criticism of the right’s hated of Islam as meaning you cannot criticize barbaric practices in the religion.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Good=All people are made in the image of God and deserve equal rights, therefore we should have income equality, help the poor, etc.

The statement that people are made in the image of god and deserve equal rights has no place in a sensible discussion about why equality is important.

Plus, the religious tend to be more selective than most about who deserves equal rights.

You yourself are not in favour of equality for our LGBT friends ‘made in the image of god’. That said, this is an improvement on the treatment of LGBT in the Muslim world which is revolting. ‘Progressive’ Malaysia flogged a couple of lesbians not long ago. As for the less progressive Muslim-majority countries...

Let’s just say people should be treated equally. No need for god here.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Let this be a warning to people contemplating a vacation in this country where a religion, not a democratic government, sets the rules people need to live by. Don't ignore it, stay away.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

It’s weird that to mistake criticism of the right’s hated of Islam as meaning you cannot criticize barbaric practices in the religion.

Why limit it to the "right" the left and everyone else in between who are showing their ignorance as well as people who make comments like this!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Why limit it to the "right" the left and everyone else in between

For a few reasons:

1) I was speaking of the right's hatred of Islam. I don't see those in between and the left hating Islam.

2) The rightists are the only ones on this thread who have claimed that you cannot criticize barbaric practices in the religion.

That said, I criticize the action. Anyone claiming that you are not allowed to criticize the barbaric parts of any religion is wrong.

But what's stupid is to think that criticizing the right's hatred of Islam, and their anti-Islamic rhetoric, equates to saying that one is not allowed to criticize the barbaric parts of the religion.

We criticize the hateful words from the right when they are hateful.

We criticize the hateful actions of Islam when they are hateful.

That's how balance works children.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

whipping is a common punishment for a range of offenses in the deeply conservative region on Sumatra island, including gambling, drinking alcohol, and having gay or pre-marital sex.

What does Mayor Pete have to say about this?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

whipping is a common punishment for a range of offenses in the deeply conservative region on Sumatra island, including gambling, drinking alcohol, and having gay or pre-marital sex.

What does Mayor Pete have to say about this?

Dunno. About as much as Trump the adulterer had to say about the Saudi treatment of adulterers? He did a cute little jig with these medieval butchers.

Politicians have to be careful or hypocritical depending on how you look at it.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Continued due to script issue: (which is VERY IMPORTANT) than I can in many current laws in my own country.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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