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COVID-19 cases rise in Shanghai with millions under lockdown

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Obviously, lockdowns and draconian measures just don’t work...

6 ( +13 / -7 )

Take care Shanghai.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Expect some city employees to join the unemployed queue.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Tokyo seemed to weather the storm without having to lockdown. Vaccinations probably helped too. I don't see why the Chinese can't copy Japan, especially considering Omicron is much milder than Delta. Seems like the CCP really want to control people's lives. Perhaps its just a dress rehearsal for when they decide to invade Taiwan.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

They would do well to "rip the band aid off" and let it rip.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Covid zero is not sustainable. Xi is signing his name to a scientific impossibility. My floaty 1 yen piece is on Covid, which doesn't recognise the Cartman-style demands of the CCP and Vainglorious Leader.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Saw some videos from Chinese about the lockdowns.

They happen unexpected. Part of Chinese culture is to get fresh food daily from the local market, so most homes don't have weeks of food stockpiled. Depending on the food situation, a lockdown might begin with nearly zero food in the home.

In large cities, people live in huge apartment complexes with 5K other people. If 1 person living there is found positive for COVID, the building is locked down - nobody in or out. 1 person from each apartment can go to the garden/entrance to accept food deliveries. However, with 5K other people there, your neighbors are likely to steal the food left. Seems that happens a bunch.

Huge apartments are usually in a cluster of 3-10 buildings, so 15K-50K people might get grouped into the lock down for initial testing. Those other buildings will have a shorter period.

Hard to get to work when the govt doesn't allow anyone to leave.

Outside each building, there are health officials claiming to be testing everyone. Saw a video where the same swab was used on multiple testees. It could have been a setup or it could have been a working just forgetting to change the swap between samples. Either way, it was scary. There wasn't a huge box of new swabs and a trash bin next to the worker taking the samples, so I suspect it was all for show. Not really testing.

Also understand that the medical workers haven't had a day off in months. Working 36 hours straight is common. They are turning away non-COVID patients in some medical facilities.

So, imagine you are older, living in an apartment under lock down. No COVID, but have a stroke or heart pains. You can't get out of the building due to the lock down. Seems counter productive.

At some other smaller apartments without a central entrance/controlled access, the lockdowns have been enforced with razor wire around the buildings.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

However, Sun stressed “unswerving adherence" to China's hardline “zero-COVID" approach, mandating lockdowns, forced isolation of all suspected cases and mass testing, even while acknowledging the social and economic toll that is taking.

As scientific experts worldwide acknowledge, this zero covid strategy is the best approach to limit covid infections and related deaths.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Of course strict measures and lockdowns cannot work completely there. It’s the country of origin, if you need the reminder. When a forest burns, then by all common logic the flames are in that forest, not in the ocean, 200m beneath sea level.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Under eight thousand cases, nearly 95% of which showed no symptoms and the sky is falling in. Meanwhile over in Blighty, FIVE MILLION cases supposedly last week and it’s totally business as normal.

It wasn’t only Vietnam the b.s piled up so fast, you needed wings to stay above it.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

This says it all:

https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1009994/the-shanghai-lockdown-rap-get-fed%2C-go-on-get-tested?source=chanel_home

2 ( +2 / -0 )

As scientific experts worldwide acknowledge, this zero covid strategy is the best approach to limit covid infections and related deaths.

You mean the experts you are repeatedly failing to bring? this time you quoted someone whose expertise consist exclusively on being part of the Politburo, this do not constitute expertise.

In reality the experts have heavily criticized the policy as risky and severely inefficient, even here on this news site. This means that it not only causes unnecessary deaths all around by consuming unnecessarily resources that are not longer available to prevent other types of deaths, it also is likely to end up failing like it has happened in Hong Kong and is now happening on Shanghai.

What experts worldwide acknowledge is the opposite approach, for example New Zealand following scientific evidence and replacing the zero covid policy with a moderated (but still very effective) way to keep the pandemic under control.

So, can you bring any expert this time that says the zero covid policy should be adopted by any country? and again, being member of the Politburo is not proof of expertise.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

letsberealisticToday  06:22 am JST

NZ also had a zero COVID policy before Omicron which worked extremely well for more than a year with just a handful of deaths and low cases overall. Zero COVID can work very well in the right environment.

Exactly. Great point.

And when the restrictions of the zero covid policy in NZ were relaxed, cases started to go up, as did covid related deaths.

It is amazing that people deny the effectiveness of the most effective strategy at preventing covid infecitons and related deaths.

virusrexToday  06:04 am JST

In reality the experts have heavily criticized the policy as risky and severely inefficient, even here on this news site. 

Wrong, they say the opposite.

As usual, you fail to produce any expert opinion that support your dangerous and false conclusion.

Read the posts above yours for a look at reality.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

And when the restrictions of the zero covid policy in NZ were relaxed, cases started to go up, as did covid related deaths.

But never to a degree as the failure of China in Hong Kong (and what is in the process of happening in Shanghai), and specially without the huge burden on every other aspect of life in NZ, which means no unnecessary lives lost for other problems because of resources sequestrated by the zero covid policy, this is actually why NZ is used as an example of how to act scientifically. While China is heavily criticized by their accumulating failures

It is amazing that people deny the effectiveness of the most effective strategy at preventing covid infecitons and related deaths.

That is not amazing at all, Hong Kong is a very plain example of how the policy failed with Omicron, looking at Shanghai it is no longer rational to pretend these examples are not happening.

Wrong, they say the opposite.

But then again you bring exactly zero examples of peole "saying the opposite" even when explicitly requested to do so. Which makes it easy to understand that there are no such declaration. None of the comments bring any experts recommending the Chinese model for any place in the world. If you think you can see any of such experts then you can just quote exactly where it was brought to the conversation.

Or accept there was no such thing.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

NZ also had a zero COVID policy before Omicron which worked extremely well for more than a year with just a handful of deaths and low cases overall. Zero COVID can work very well in the right environment.

That is the point, scientific evidence showed that in places like New Zealand (naturally isolated) and against the original strain the policy was justified.

The huge difference between both cases is that when the evidence showed Omicron was too transmissible for the policy to be successfull without the risk of cathastrophic failure, New Zealand listened to the science and the experts and shifted its focus to vaccination and control of the spreading so it would no need to bankrupt itself and end up with uncountable cases and deaths anyway. China did the opposite, and Hong Kong and Shanghai are perfect examples that show this was the wrong choice to make.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

virusrexToday  08:56 am JST

That is the point, scientific evidence showed that in places like New Zealand (naturally isolated) and against the original strain the policy was justified. 

That is the point I have been making, and you were always disagreeing.

The huge difference between both cases is that when the evidence showed Omicron was too transmissible for the policy to be successfull without the risk of cathastrophic failure, New Zealand listened to the science and the experts and shifted its focus to vaccination and control of the spreading so it would no need to bankrupt itself and end up with uncountable cases and deaths anyway. China did the opposite, and Hong Kong and Shanghai are perfect examples that show this was the wrong choice to make.

When NZ shifted its focus covid infections and related deaths went skyrocketing higher--in the first month. Scientific experts do not call that a success.

The number of infections and covid related deaths in NZ were LOWER during the zero covid policy period and HIGHER when restrictions were relaxed.

So, the facts prove in NZ that the zero covid policy had better success at preventing infections and deaths, simple as that. Unless you want to argue with factual conclusions some more.

Same in China--the zero covid policy resulted in the lowest number of cases and deaths---in the world.

Facts are facts.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

virusrexToday  08:49 am JST

But then again you bring exactly zero examples of peole "saying the opposite" even when explicitly requested to do so. Which makes it easy to understand that there are no such declaration. None of the comments bring any experts recommending the Chinese model for any place in the world. If you think you can see any of such experts then you can just quote exactly where it was brought to the conversation.

As I have provided expert quotes previously, which you fail to acknowledge, here are some more, and this closes the case on whether experts supported the zero covid policy (and focus--China used the zero covid policy too):

*The Independent Sage group of scientists, which scrutinises the Government’s response to the virus, believes ministers’ prime objective should be achieving zero-Covid in Britain and Ireland:*

And another expert

*A zero-Covid strategy is “definitely” possible in the UK, according to Martin McKee, a professor of European public health at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine and a member of Independent Sage.*

“If we fail to get the virus under control we will go from one crisis to another, removing any certainty from people and businesses. That will have devastating effects on the economy as no-one will be able to plan ahead or invest.”

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/coronavirus-uk-zero-covid-strategy-explained-569802

Check and mate.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

That is the point I have been making, and you were always disagreeing.

No, that is completely different from saying this should be done by every country and specially right now that Omicron made the policy redundant and counterproductive. This is what makes your personal opinion demonstrably wrong.

When NZ shifted its focus covid infections and related deaths went skyrocketing higher--in the first month. Scientific experts do not call that a success.

You are still in the process of bringing experts that demonstrate that Hong Kong is not part of China, and that the zero covid policy is recommendable anywhere in the world, now you need also to bring experts that say that the New Zealand shift of policy was not a success. Just you assuming the experts opinion is not valid.

The number of infections and covid related deaths in NZ were LOWER during the zero covid policy period and HIGHER when restrictions were relaxed.

Which was expected because of the shift of variants, the number of cases and deaths with Omicron are Higher even in China, according to you this means the chinese policy is a failure, thank you for proving yourself mistaken.

So, the facts prove in NZ that the zero covid policy had better success at preventing infections and deaths, simple as that. Unless you want to argue with factual conclusions some more.

No, that is false. Because nobody has ever projected for the pre-omicron situation to continue with the Omicron variant, your false conclusions are not coming from experts but only from you. Unless you can bring some credentials that still means it is wrong. Even during the prevalence of Delta it was projected to fail.

Same in China--the zero covid policy resulted in the lowest number of cases and deaths---in the world.

That has been demonstrated to you as false before, why insist in saying something you already understand to be false? is misleading others with false information so important to you? False information is still false, even if you try to repeat it as true.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

As I have provided expert quotes previously, which you fail to acknowledge, here are some more, and this closes the case on whether experts supported the zero covid policy (and focus--China used the zero covid policy too):

Sorry but bringing sources from July and August 2020 to disprove the fact that variants makes this policy unacceptable risky and comparably less efficient than scientific options (like control and focus on vaccination) is not making any sense.

The policy was made counterproductive and risky by the variants, so pretending the world could magically go back in time to 2020 to make the policy useful again is fantasy thinking. Shanghai and Hong Kong are clear examples of why this do not work in the current reality.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

virusrexToday  09:23 am JST

Sorry but bringing sources from July and August 2020 to disprove the fact that variants makes this policy unacceptable risky and comparably less efficient than scientific options (like control and focus on vaccination) is not making any sense. 

Nope. You asked for expert opinion, and I provided the link. Can't cry about that.

I provided many links, unlike you, who can never reveal sources--because they don't exist.

Once again for others following along:

The Independent Sage group of scientists, which scrutinises the Government’s response to the virus, believes ministers’ prime objective should be achieving zero-Covid in Britain and Ireland:**

You want to deny that the Independent Sage is not a group of experts? Please do--we need more laughter here.

The policy was made counterproductive and risky by the variants, so pretending the world could magically go back in time to 2020 to make the policy useful again is fantasy thinking. Shanghai and Hong Kong are clear examples of why this do not work in the current reality.

Show some links. Let's see them. Prove it.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Nope. You asked for expert opinion, and I provided the link. Can't cry about that.

Your source says absolutely nothing about the actual value of the policy in the context of the variants, something that has been included explicitly in the conversation from the example of New Zealand.

You provide irrelevant links, that require magical time travel to be useful, that is not a reference but just reflect incapacity to understand the reason why the zero covid policy failed in Hong Kong and is failing in Shanghai.

The reason why your links have not been relevant for over half a year now are valid and still disqualifies your opinion as just denial of the current reality.

Show some links. Let's see them. Prove it.

For example the article you are commenting is one, no use in pretending not to have read it, then

https://japantoday.com/category/features/health/as-virus-cases-surge-can-china's-zero-covid-strategy-hold

https://japantoday.com/category/world/china-locks-down-city-of-9-million-as-virus-ripples-across-country

Which are both articles where heavy criticism has been expressed by the experts and where your comments are also present, no use in pretending not to know about them.

Pretending not to have refeences you have commented in (and that is only on this site) evidence an irrational position that apparently you recognized yourself.

So, which experts have said that the zero covid policy is recommendable for any country now, in 2022?

none? that is the whole point.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

COVID-19 cases rise in Shanghai with millions under lockdown:

This is mind-boggling. Could the new suspected strain be that contagious and dangerous?

Despite China's experienced effort in curbing it, the number of Shanghainese infected has soared to a new high.

Why..?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Why..?

Because they are using 1 swab to test everyone? Not changing it between each testee.

The options are pretty clear.

The govt decides everything and mandates what happens to everyone (NZ, China), including being locked in your home

or

the people decide for themselves after hearing the best advice possible (most of the world) and venture out as necessary for their needs.

I think the USA went too far on the 'decide for yourself'. There were never any real lockdowns where people were forced to stay inside their homes. Smart people did that and distanced themselves from others, but it wasn't govt mandated.

The Japanese, Taiwanese, and Canadian govts seem to have struck the right level for their residents. Open, but smartly closed. Remember when everyone was complaining that access to the antivirus shots were too slow in those countries? That seems to have been a good thing, because it made them much more cautious. Canada had the SARS outbreak last decade and knew how bad it could be, even if limited. There are always a few unhappy people when the govt makes demands, but the vast majority of people actually followed the govt advice and got vaccinated as possible.

The US was screwed by the GOP leaders telling lies then actively preventing the best medical advice available from being followed. Some of the things they did was good too, but it is overshadowed by the other foolishness that clearly lead to thousands of more deaths.

Similarly, China is being screwed by their leaders, distrust, and a 50% effective antivirus injection. Seems that by now, they should be been able to reverse engineer the mRNA vaccines and provide an effective one for short term needs. It isn't like they don't have biological experts.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

letsberealisticApr. 3  06:36 pm JST

I think you'll find, however, that what they have proved to do is save many thousands of lives around the world not to mention prevented many people from getting long COVID.

Absolutely. Zero covid strategy has had the best results globally to limit covid infections and related deaths.

China, as an example, has the lowest infection and relates deaths Per Capita in the world.

And other countries that implemented the zero covid strategy, Australia, and NZ had similar success--and as soon as those countries moved away from that strategy their infections and deaths more than doubled---in one month!

Facts and scientific experts support this information.

Anyone who tries to argue otherwise is just trying to make an excuse as to why it is ok to go drinking in a crowded bar on a Friday night.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Absolutely. Zero covid strategy has had the best results globally to limit covid infections and related deaths.

China, as an example, has the lowest infection and relates deaths Per Capita in the world.

You have already recognized this is false, why present information that you know is false?

Once you willingly use falsehoods to defend your beliefs you are already accepting you know they are wrong, and that your interest is in deceiving other people.

And other countries that implemented the zero covid strategy, Australia, and NZ had similar success--and as soon as those countries moved away from that strategy their infections and deaths more than doubled---in one month!

Mistaken, delta and omicron are the ones responsible for the increase of cases, countries then had to choose how to deal with the variants, persist on an impossible, unsustainable and risky zero covid policy and fail as china did in Hong Kong and it is doing in Shanghai, or be successful by abandoning the policy for a much more scientific and responsible approach like New Zealand did.

Facts and scientific experts support this information

No, that is not true, and this is very easy to prove, if people ask you to provide any expert that (NOW in 2022, not two years back) recommends the policy anywhere to deal with Omicron you will only keep silent, because there is no such an expert.

Anyone who tries to argue otherwise is just trying to make an excuse as to why it is ok to go drinking in a crowded bar on a Friday night.

Also completely mistaken, because many countries can have responsible measures that can include limits on the activities allowed even if they are not in a zero covid policy. Your false argument completely depends on the imaginary idea that a country can only be in a zero covid policy or letting the disease run rampant, which of course is false. The same as when you thought only countries with zero covid strategies used masks.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

COVID-19 cases in China’s largest city of Shanghai are still rising as millions remain isolated at home under a sweeping lockdown.

This will come back under control again, as the past lockdowns were the mist successful in the world at preventing covid infections and related deaths.

virusrexToday  06:16 am JST

You have already recognized this is false, why present information that you know is false? 

Once you willingly use falsehoods to defend your beliefs you are already accepting you know they are wrong, and that your interest is in deceiving other people.

You keep making the same mistakes, presenting false premises, and, naturally, false conclusions.

Mistaken, delta and omicron are the ones responsible for the increase of cases, countries then had to choose how to deal with the variants, persist on an impossible, unsustainable and risky zero covid policy and fail as china did in Hong Kong and it is doing in Shanghai, or be successful by abandoning the policy for a much more scientific and responsible approach like New Zealand did.

Wrong again. Scientific experts are not blaming delta and omicron for the rise of cases in NZ and Australia that are happening after the zero covid policy was relaxed, they are blaming the relaxation of the restrictions for the rise.

And you still do not understand the difference between China and Hong Kong in terms of their approaches. Incredible.

Also completely mistaken, because many countries can have responsible measures that can include limits on the activities allowed even if they are not in a zero covid policy. Your false argument completely depends on the imaginary idea that a country can only be in a zero covid policy or letting the disease run rampant, which of course is false. The same as when you thought only countries with zero covid strategies used masks.

Wrong again, because no country did so.

As usual, you provide no sources, because of course, there are no sources, except the fake experts in your head.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Wrong again. Scientific experts are not blaming delta and omicron for the rise of cases in NZ and Australia that are happening after the zero covid policy was relaxed, they are blaming the relaxation of the restrictions for the rise.

No, that's not true. Where did you come up with this?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

many countries can have responsible measures that can include limits on the activities allowed even if they are not in a zero covid policy.

Wrong again, because no country did so.

Um most countries did that. Including Japan - we have limits on activities allowed, and didn't have a zero covid policy. Add the nordic countries and Canada as others. In fact most countries limited activities without having a zero covid policy.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

This will come back under control again, as the past lockdowns were the mist successful in the world at preventing covid infections and related deaths.

COVID will cme back under control on every country as well, including countries where examples of disasters like Hong Kong and Shanghai have not happened, that is the whole point, this could have been prevented on the first place but the chinese government choose to follow the ascientific path that is costing unnecessary lives, including those that happen because of its policies and are not related direclty to the infection.

You keep making the same mistakes, presenting false premises, and, naturally, false conclusions.

No, I produced references that demonstrated this and that you accepted, now to pretend you never did. Which speaks more about lack of honesty than anything else.

Wrong again. Scientific experts are not blaming delta and omicron for the rise of cases in NZ and Australia that are happening after the zero covid policy was relaxed, they are blaming the relaxation of the restrictions for the rise.

Sorry but since you have repeatedly misrepresented and openly lied about what the experts have said you have no authority to speak on behalf of them. You are still looking for experts that say Hong Kong is not China, that say masks are only used on countries with zero covid policies, now you need to find experts that say delta and omicron have no role in the increase of cases in New Zealand.

For some reason I think you will also be unable to find those and then you will come trying to present something from 2020 and will try to pretend it is about delta and omicron.

Wrong again, because no country did so.

as already proved by objective data it is you who is wrong just because you don't want to accept this, sorry but the disaster of Hong Kong and now in Shaghai makes this even easier.

Yeah, and during a one year period in the last two years, when the country of China had 1 covid related death, how many did those other countries have?

China did not had only one death, you are still in the process of finding experts that can prove Hong Kong is not China, so you have to count their numerous deaths as product of the Chinese zero covid policy as well.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

However, Sun stressed “unswerving adherence" to China's hardline “zero-COVID" approach, mandating lockdowns, forced isolation of all suspected cases and mass testing, even while acknowledging the social and economic toll that is taking.

This is the best approach to limit covid infections and related deaths, as also proven in NZ and Australia.

virusrexToday  05:47 am JST

No, I produced references that demonstrated this and that you accepted, now to pretend you never did. Which speaks more about lack of honesty than anything else.

Yeah--you gave a reference that supported my claim. Ooops!

Sorry but since you have repeatedly misrepresented and openly lied about what the experts have said you have no authority to speak on behalf of them. You are still looking for experts that say Hong Kong is not China, that say masks are only used on countries with zero covid policies, now you need to find experts that say delta and omicron have no role in the increase of cases in New Zealand.

As published in this newspaper, and countless others, that is the reality. Try and live in that realm.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

This is the best approach to limit covid infections and related deaths, as also proven in NZ and Australia.

Again, no it is not according to the experts (from which Sun is not part of, seeing as he has no demonstrated expertise in anything scientific related).

Yeah--you gave a reference that supported my claim. Ooops!

You had to accept China was not the country with the best on capita rates in the world, and that is even without counting the disaster in Hong Kong, that is the opposite of supporting your claim but instead debunking it completely.

As published in this newspaper, and countless others, that is the reality. 

But then again you fail to even present one reference, which clearly shows that this is not the case, you just don't want to accept being wrong about it.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

virusrexToday  06:07 am JST

Again, no it is not according to the experts (from which Sun is not part of, seeing as he has no demonstrated expertise in anything scientific related).

Yeah, Australia was mislead into adopting a zero covid policy by a non-expert---maybe an anonymous poster on a site like this! Australia should sue! So should NZ! Or, and so should the UK! All who adopted a zero civid policy.

You had to accept China was not the country with the best on capita rates in the world,

It is acceptable if one doesn't accept reality.

Here is some reality below---fight the facts! Post again about this if you want to continue your misinformed, misguided, mistaken "opinion."

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?%22%20%5Cl%20%22countries

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Yeah, Australia was mislead into adopting a zero covid policy by a non-expert---maybe an anonymous poster on a site like this! Australia should sue! So should NZ! Or, and so should the UK! All who adopted a zero civid policy.

Bring then a reference that proves that Autralia adopted a zero covid policy for Omicron, becaus that is the main reason it is considered risky, wasteful and impossible to be sustained in China.

You don't have any? that is because again there is exactly zero experts that recommended any country to confront Delta and Omicron with this failed policy.

It is acceptable if one doesn't accept reality.

On the opposite, reality is that other countries have done better than china.

Your own link puts China at place #13, below countries that did not enact a zero covid policy, and puts Hong Kong at place 142, objectively proving the policy was a failure in China as well.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

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