world

Debate over 'Hamilton' speech exposes post-election cracks

144 Comments
By MARK KENNEDY

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

© Copyright 2016 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

©2019 GPlusMedia Inc.

144 Comments
Login to comment

Pence had ducked out before Dixon finished the unprecedented message but heard the full remarks from the hallway outside the auditorium.

Mikey's feewings were hurt.

1 ( +16 / -15 )

The guy who mocks a disabled reporter and called Hillary Clinton a "nasty woman," the guy who called women "pigs," etc. etc. etc., is now worried about people being "rude"? We could accuse him of having a double standard, but we all know he has no standards at all.

17 ( +29 / -12 )

The power of Freedom of Speech in America.

11 ( +17 / -6 )

Funny how all the people who talk about "hate" are completely unaware that they are propagating hate themselves.

2 ( +12 / -10 )

What this really exposes is an alarmingly thin-skinned man about to become president.

15 ( +23 / -8 )

"Hamilton" an early central banker, not surprising they would publicly dis an average American and future VP. Crazy lefties and their rude behavior. There's a reason Aaron Burr killed this loser.

-15 ( +9 / -24 )

Funny how all the people who talk about "hate" are completely unaware that they are propagating hate themselves.

You're completely off topic if you're referring to what was said by the cast of Hamilton; 'hate' had nothing to do with the message. I suggest you actually listen to it.

Is Trump going to institute lese majeste laws? Will Bannon's shock tabloid, plus those owned by Rupert Murdoch and other alt right media trump all others they compete with and deliver only messages of praise for the anointed one?

10 ( +15 / -5 )

Funny how all the people who talk about "hate" are completely unaware that they are propagating hate themselves.

If you want us to feel bad for hating hate and haters, you've got a long, long road ahead of you. There is absolutely nothing wrong with hating those who hate.

10 ( +16 / -6 )

Trump expecting an apology what a joke he is...A short insight to a Trump presidency..Sad sad situation..

8 ( +15 / -7 )

The remarks made to Mr. Pence are absolutely deplorable, a familiar word used by Mrs. Clinton. Mr. Pence was very polite and did not just get up and walk out of the theatre. Can anyone imagine the leadership of China or NK being lectured like that? No, because freedom of speech doesn't really exit there. Nevertheless, the remarks were not a matter of free speech but a classic example of rudeness. What would the actors say if they had done a private performance for the president and he stood up and lectured them on public TV on the quality of the performance or misinterpretation of American history? If Love trumps Hate, the actors and should start practicing it.

6 ( +16 / -10 )

The audience members booing Pence were indeed rude, but the speech from the cast was not. Sure it may have made Pence feel awkward, but he's a political leader with a record of making some peoples lives more difficult. And he's attending a political play, with political themes. Surprise, surprise if it ends with a special political message to him.

Perhaps it could be said that Pence was rude for walking out while the cast was directly speaking to him, but he probably had to do what the guards directed, and maybe he was (or they were) having memories of Lincoln going to the theatre...

10 ( +13 / -3 )

A shame the actors couldn't let the art stand for itself and had to cheapen it with a tasteless stunt like this.

-7 ( +15 / -22 )

Aww looks like the right wingers need their safe spaces now.

7 ( +15 / -8 )

The remarks made to Mr. Pence are absolutely deplorable

I just read the transcript of the speech, and I think you must have read something completely different. There is nothing deplorable, hateful or even disrespectful or rude in the speech. If Mr Pence cannot handle being on the receiving end of Vice President-elect Pence, we welcome you and we truly thank you for joining us here at Hamilton: An American Musical, we really do. We, sir, we are the diverse America who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us — our planet, our children, our parents — or defend us and uphold our inalienable rights, sir. But we truly hope that this show has inspired you to uphold our American values and to work on behalf of all of us. All of us. Again, we truly thank you for sharing this show. This wonderful American story told by a diverse group of men [and] women of different colors, creeds, and orientations. - then maybe he and his boss are far too thin-skinned to be leading a chorus of The Grand Old duke of York, never mind the most powerful country on Earth.

12 ( +16 / -4 )

I hate Pence with a passion he is like the crazed right wing personified the actors are in their right to give a speech what Pence does with the speech is another.

But if they are so thin skinned its bound to give us 4 years of laughter,

3 ( +10 / -7 )

@USN A shame the actors couldn't let the art stand for itself and had to cheapen it with a tasteless stunt like this.

Fortunately military life and civilian life are different. Civilians have constitutionally guaranteed rights they're able to use without too much fear of reprisal. The cast used their platform and their rights.

Who knows how much longer the rights to criticize state leadership will remain given the extreme defensiveness of the man soon to be commander in chief of the world's most powerful (and soon to become even larger and more frightening) military.

You say it was a tasteless stunt, I say good on them. Here's hoping we can both continue to freely express our respective opinions without fear of reprisal. In any arena. Except, of course, the military.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

Fix: a shame Trump couldn't let the artists stand for themselves and had to cheapen it with a tasteless Twitter battle like this.

I'm starting to see why 90% of Manhattanites and 70% of New Yorkers picked Clinton over native son Trump. They know he is a cranky Twitter obsessed socialite lacking the gravitas to hold any kind of public office.

Don't just demand a general apology, get secret service agents on the job identifying those in the audience who booed Pence, and start calling them out on Twitter. What does Trump have to lose? That will show those uppity Broadway theater fans.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Someone calls you Evil for a two years because of your religion or for being an immigrant and that you should be registered like a dog and deported (despite being a US citizen) and when you say, “Hey, that's not right." Suddenly You are Rude. True Turn-the-other-cheek Christian dogma only when the shoe is on the other foot.

This so-called average American who wanted women who had abortions Killed needs to man-up and take his lumps just like he dished out to President Obama for Eight Years. Talk about a rude motherfracker who propagated hate to scam a minority to vote for him.

7 ( +13 / -6 )

The statement by the cast was polite and relevant given the GOP's history with minorities.

7 ( +13 / -6 )

They are the ones in violation of the law.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/03/29/hamilton-casting-call-non-white/

Broadway Union Takes Issue With ‘Hamilton’ Casting Call For ‘Non-White’ Performers

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — The hottest show on Broadway has won praise for its groundbreaking casting of black and Latino performers, but now, “Hamilton” may have run afoul of the strict New York City Human Rights Law.

As CBS2’s Tony Aiello reported, the controversy was sparked by a casting notice posted by the producers of “Hamilton,” which specifically seeks “non-white” performers.

One critic said “Hamilton” takes a story that “valorizes dead white guys” and replaces it with black, Latino and multi-ethnic performers playing America’s founding fathers.

But as the blockbuster musical looks to expand to other cities, the casting notice with its call for “non-white” performers looks problematic to civil rights attorney Randolph McLaughlin.

“What if they put an ad out that said, ‘Whites only need apply?’” said McLaughlin, of the Newman Ferrara Law Firm. “Why, African-Americans, Latinos, Asians would be outraged.”

McLaughlin believes the ad violates the New York City Human Rights Law, which makes it unlawful “for an employer… because of the actual written or perceived… race of any person, to discriminate.”

Broadway Union Takes Issue With ‘Hamilton’ Casting Call For ‘Non-White’ Performers

-12 ( +6 / -18 )

It's free speech, Mr President elect. Why are you moaning about that, isn't that what 'Makes America Great'? Your VP must be the thinnest skinned politician in a democratic country.

9 ( +14 / -5 )

Except that if the cast of 'Hamilton' had chosen to lecture President Obama, they would have been labeled 'disrespectful' and 'racist'.

Kanye the other day replaced 40 minutes of his concert with pro-Trump rants. The fans should demand a pro rata refund.

-5 ( +7 / -12 )

Trump tweets:

theater “must always be a safe and special place.”

Just like beauty pageant changing rooms, Donald?

6 ( +13 / -7 )

And how many years Trump and others going after Obama saying he was born in Kenya? He was heckled and disrespected how many times by Republicans? When the Arizona gov. pointed her finger at him? Clinton hating? They kept their cool the whole time. Even GWB kept his cool- so did other Republican presidents before him. Trump is a new breed of thin skinned whatever.

Yeah! Trump can't take it. He will be tortured for 4 or 8 long years by the media from all directions. What a family of cry babies. His daughter walked off the interview set when quizzed about Trump's sexual harassment. They are a family of lightweights who want to lead the free world. But they can't take the heat.

waaaah!!! Liberals are picking on me!! The liberal media is not fair. I am the greatest president- greater than Lincoln! I can build the greatest wall and know about ISIS more than the generals. It's all Hillary's fault. Even after my presidency is confirmed it will still be Hillary's fault. Waaaaahhhh.

Get used to it Trump! It's only just beginning, will get bigger and it WILL NOT stop.

8 ( +12 / -4 )

If the cast later regret this, they could just deny it ever happened despite video evidence. Works for Trump.

I think he should learn to accept criticism rather than pulling his smacked arse face and taking to Twiiter to scratch their eyes out.

What a pathetic spoiled brat.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

As for a boycott of the show....

Boycott by whom? The typical white Trump voter? They hate LGBT and minorities anyway and stage shows are full of them. They won't go there anyway even if they had the money.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

"Boycott by whom? The typical white Trump voter? They hate LGBT and minorities anyway and stage shows are full of them. They won't go there anyway even if they had the money."

I think they'd enjoy the theatre. They could boo Atticus Finch in a 'To Kill a Mokingbird' performance or yell "Lock him up! Lock him up!" if they did '12 Angry Men'.

They'd have a ball.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Lizz:

They are the ones in violation of the law. Broadway Union Takes Issue With ‘Hamilton’ Casting Call For ‘Non-White’ Performers.

Were the actors responsible for casting, or is it good old guilt by association?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Let's not forget this highly diverse production issued a "Whites Need Not Apply’ casting call for its Broadway and national touring show in direct violation of federal employment laws.

Leftwing hypocrisy on parade for everyone to see. The cast ambushes Mike Pence at a show he paid to go see to lecture him about "diversity" but somehow forgot their own discrimination in denying "whites" the chance to even audition for a part.

What's more, interesting choice to base a play on from a historical perspective. Alexander Hamilton was loyal to the crown and its supporters during and after the revolution. Very fitting that the alt-Leftisits would revere one of their own. . . .

0 ( +8 / -8 )

Is Trump going to institute lese majeste laws? Will Bannon's shock tabloid, plus those owned by Rupert Murdoch and other alt right media trump all others they compete with and deliver only messages of praise for the anointed one?

Do you know even what an Alt right is? Can you point to some fact concrete hard evidence that would support your accusation that Bannon is an all out racist? None of the other MSM were able to find anything, can you? Please share it with us.

The statement by the cast was polite and relevant given the GOP's history with minorities.

Coming from the people that supported radical liberal policies like LBJ's "Great Society" which systematically destroyed the Black community and to this day Blacks are still feeling the pain and suffering from the man putting millions of government subsidies and to this day the Democrats are the absolute worst thing for minorities. I'm sorry, they do care for minorities as long as they can get THEIR vote, it's all good. No wonder they keep losing elections.

I think he should learn to accept criticism

Gosh!!! I wish you would have told Obama that all these years ago.

What a pathetic spoiled brat.

Don't worry, as of 1/20/17 You thankfully won't have to deal with the anointed one anymore. Freedom and salvation is upon us.

-14 ( +4 / -18 )

Let's not forget this highly diverse production issued a "Whites Need Not Apply’ casting call for its Broadway and national touring show in direct violation of federal employment laws.

Let's not forget that you didn't provide any supporting evidence to this claim, and that when the alt-right does that, it invariably means that the claim doesn't actually hold up to scrutiny.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

To paraphrase Lizz, the first ten days of Trump's Twitter squabble about a popular Broadway play are going to be epic! Might get it sold out for two years in advance. He is a job creator after all.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

@bass Can you point to some fact concrete hard evidence that would support your accusation that Bannon is an all out racist?

Kindly show me in any place, anywhere I have said or written that. You're not making things up again, are you? If you re-read what I wrote I said: "...Bannon's shock tabloid..." But I know, the alt right are post-truth-ian and live in a fact-free bubble.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Vice President-elect Pence was the open minded and magnanimous person going to the play and gracing the cast with his presence. He could have been great marketing tool for this production and more conservatives and independents would have followed his lead.

Instead, the small mindedness of the leftist producers and cast -- and their desire to lay bare their mean spiritness for all the world to see -- shut down any chance of not only just good will, but also a wider audience for the play. TV reports today said hundreds of cancellations to this production have now taken place. Looks like they will have to resort to accepting EBT instead credit cards in order to fill theater seats.. . .

IMHO, I am fine with these alt left opportunists and hypocrites shooting themselves in the foot at the box office. . . .

-12 ( +1 / -13 )

...Bannon is an all out racist?

This is what the Republicans have brought us: One no longer has to be simply racist to be abhorrent and rejected by one's peers; one must be an "all out" racist. I suppose this means that cross burnings and lynchings and the like are still proscribed, but winking at that behavior is A-OK.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

Strangerland: Let's not forget that you didn't provide any supporting evidence to this claim, and that when the alt-right does that, it invariably means that the claim doesn't actually hold up to scrutiny.

Here it is, but if recent experience holds out, no amount of evidence will suffice.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/11/19/flashback-hamilton-cast-lectures-vp-elect-diversity-issued-whites-need-not-apply-casting-call/

FLASHBACK: ‘Hamilton’ Cast Lectures VP-Elect on ‘Diversity,’ But Issued ‘Whites Need Not Apply’ Casting Call - 19 Nov 2016

... The details of the Hamilton casting call released in March read, “Seeking NON-WHITE men and women, ages 20s to 30s, for Broadway and upcoming Tours.” ...

When the show’s producers and staff were confronted about this seeming violation of federal employment laws, show producer Jeffrey Seller insisted that Hamilton encourages “diversity,” but that it was perfectly legitimate to exclude all white people. “I stand by it and believe it to be legal,” Seller said of the controversial casting call. ...

In fact, the above story links to another Breitbart story from around the time the casting call was issued, which links to Hamilton"'s own casting call, still on its website:

http://www.hamiltonbroadway.com/_downloads/Hamilton_Auditions.pdf

HAMILTON is holding OPEN AUDITIONS for SINGERS who RAP! Seeking NON-WHITE men and women, ages 20s to 30s, for Broadway and upcoming Tours! ...

NEW YORK CITY – Tuesday, May 3rd, 2016

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

"I think he should learn to accept criticism"

"Gosh!!! I wish you would have told Obama that all these years ago."

Please provide examples of Obama behaving like a spoiled brat in the face of criticism. He dealt with the stupidity and racism of idiots of the birther movement and those claiming he was a Muslim without sinking to the same level.

I don't remember early morning Twitter fights.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

I wish you would have told Obama that all these years ago.

Obama has skin as thick as a dragons and can take any criticism, including Trump saying all that time he was born in Kenya. With Trump in the WH (even before the WH) it will be prime pickings for years of good comedy. It will Drive Trump crazy and they are going to love driving him crazy. Looking forward to some good 3AM Twitter rants.

The cast ambushes Mike Pence

And the Arizona governor ambushes Obama on the runway sticking a finger in his face and Obama did not cry about it. What a bunch of crybabies.

Bannon is an all out racist?

many Trump's voters are racists. A high percentage of them think Obama was born in Kenya. Also, the KKK, Bundies, white supremists, David Duke all support Trump.

Let's not forget this highly diverse production issued a "Whites Need Not Apply’ casting call for its Broadway and national touring show in direct violation of federal employment laws.

No lawsuits so nothing illegal. Worst case something was worded as well as it could have been. There is a talk of specifically casting women (non-men) for men's parts in Hamilton. They want certain kids of people for certain kinds of parts. Sometimes they want someone who is non-white for a good reason which comes to.....

....Is Broadway really against white people? Do a google image search on Mamma Mia Broadway cast. Looks like lots of white there!! Because I can't imagine black people singing ABBA songs on stage.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

ts: http://www.hamiltonbroadway.com/_downloads/Hamilton_Auditions.pdf HAMILTON is holding OPEN AUDITIONS for SINGERS who RAP! Seeking NON-WHITE men and women, ages 20s to 30s, for Broadway and upcoming Tours! ... NEW YORK CITY – Tuesday, May 3rd, 2016

Somewhat interesting is that three versions of the 'Hamilton' company's document exist on the company website. The two earlier versions have the wording above, the latest one changes the last sentence from "Seeking NON-WHITE men and women ..." to:

Seeking men and women, ages 20s to 30s, for the non-white characters as written and conceived for the currently running Broadway production and upcoming Tours of HAMILTON!

The metadata in the files indicate the earlier versions were created about a week older than the latest, which has the same date as the earlier Breitbart article, March 30.

I guess some hasty editing took place after Breitbart called them out.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Strangerland: Let's not forget that you didn't provide any supporting evidence to this claim, and that when the alt-right does that,

Our 30-year political journalist was quoting Ted Nugent. As most of them would do.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

@turbostat,

Thanks for the link. My original post was from what was said on a televised news report.

Of course, don't expect any Play Doh, coloring book liberals to accept what you posted as it goes against the alt left narrative. . . .

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Texas A&M Aggie ...

You're welcome :). As Stuart Hayward mentioned (or implied) recently, I really think they're working from a playbook. I actually don't remember the tactics as being that bad before, or as similar between posters, so I was thinking it was something to do with campaigning and Correct The Record.

http://www.northcrane.com/2016/10/06/hills-shills-hillary-clintons-correct-the-record-aka-paid-trolls-names-publicly-listed-on-fec-website/

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

HAMILTON is holding OPEN AUDITIONS for SINGERS who RAP! Seeking NON-WHITE men and women

Yes, and there is talk of the next James Bond being black. And if they want that then they will be effectively casting for blacks (non-whites). This is show biz, not office biz. It's different. Trump voters might not understand. That ad that is in the public internet is current and 100% legal. If it bothers you then go ahead and let if bother you. It's not creating any lawsuits. It just shows the thin skinned Trump voters.

no amount of evidence will suffice.

There is no evidence. That is how show business works. If you really want all white people almost then go to Mamma Mia. I have not seen Hamilton. Hamilton was created by a non-white so perhaps non-whites fit in the cast better in many ways than whites (it is a very very successful show, BTW). But Mamma Mia was cast right with white people because of the music they performed, especially.

TV reports today said hundreds of cancellations to this production have now taken place.

Broadway tickets are generally non-refundable. But hundreds? Ha ha! That's laughable. Hamilton is on its way to being a Billion dollar hit and you are talking hundreds? Go ahead and not show up for your show by wasting your ticket. Your dollar. Hundreds is a joke. Buy a Broadway ticket and waste your money by not showing up and pouting about it. That sounds like a Trump voter.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Issued ‘Whites Need Not Apply’ Casting Call - 19 Nov 2016

There's the claim: An extreme statement to look like there is racial bias here.

... The details of the Hamilton casting call released in March read, “Seeking NON-WHITE men and women, ages 20s to 30s, for Broadway and upcoming Tours.” ...

There's the supporting evidence, that they were looking for non-white men and women.

And yet, the truth:

Seeking men and women, ages 20s to 30s, for the non-white characters

The right would have you believe that these people were racist for seeking non-white people for non-white characters.

And my claim that unsupported alt-right claims invariably means that the claim doesn't actually hold up to scrutiny turns out to be correct.

These people criticize the MSM, then go on to believe news like Breitbart, which does not operate under a code of ethics, and is non-ethical repeatedly.

Sheeple.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

I guess very few whites rap well (Hamilton) just like very few blacks sing ABBA songs well (Mamma Mia). But if you are white and good like Eminem then go for Hamilton casting. I have seen Mamma Mia and pretty much all the music is ABBA- good for a white cast. Anyone see Hamilton yet? I haven't. The Trump voters slam the casting (and the way they are casting is 100% legal) and they haven't even seen it? That sounds like a typical Trump voter. Trump voters: If you don't like something that is fine. But don't just think it's breaking the law because you are 100% wrong about that. That is how show biz works. Educate yourselves. You keep saying the Democrats are breaking all these laws and I have not seen any arrests or lawsuits.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

The right would have you believe that these people were racist for seeking non-white people for non-white characters.

Yet, if someone had put out an ad "Looking for whites only" everyone would claim racism. It's just the way things work in the US now.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Strangerland: ...

Texas A&M Aggie: Let's not forget this highly diverse production issued a "Whites Need Not Apply’ casting call for its Broadway and national touring show ...

Strangerland: Let's not forget that you didn't provide any supporting evidence to this claim, ...

Both documents are from Hamilton's site. You're the one who asked for evidence.

They changed their casting call from "Seeking NON-WHITE men and women, ages 20s to 30s" to "Seeking men and women, ages 20s to 30s, for the non-white characters", the same day Breitbart called them out on it.

Changing the document doesn't mean they never issued a call for non-white characters.

Strangerland: The right would have you believe that these people were racist for seeking non-white people for non-white characters. ...

Nope. Brandon Victor Dixon, for one, is playing Aaron Burr. No reason to go down the whole list.

(wikipedia, 'Hamilton'): He noted "We're telling the story of old, dead white men but we're using actors of color, and that makes the story more immediate and more accessible to a contemporary audience."

http://www.broadway.com/buzz/185219/brandon-victor-dixon-lexi-lawson-get-their-shot-in-hamilton-on-broadway/

And Texas A&M Aggie didn't say they were racist for "seeking non-white people for non-white characters". He said they were racist for specifically excluding white people in their casting call.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Yet, if someone had put out an ad "Looking for whites only" everyone would claim racism. It's just the way things work in the US now.

Not in acting. Roles are regularly advertised by race, including 'white only'.

You're the one who asked for evidence.

No I didn't.

They changed their casting call from "Seeking NON-WHITE men and women, ages 20s to 30s" to "Seeking men and women, ages 20s to 30s, for the non-white characters", the same day Breitbart called them out on it.

And?

Brandon Victor Dixon, for one, is playing Aaron Burr. No reason to go down the whole list.

(wikipedia, 'Hamilton'): He noted "We're telling the story of old, dead white men but we're using actors of color, and that makes the story more immediate and more accessible to a contemporary audience."

Or in other words, they were seeking non-white actors for non-white characters.

And Texas A&M Aggie didn't say they were racist for "seeking non-white people for non-white characters". He said they were racist for specifically excluding white people in their casting call.

Which didn't hold up to scrutiny.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

And Texas A&M Aggie said this:

Let's not forget this highly diverse production issued a "Whites Need Not Apply’ casting call for its Broadway and national touring show in direct violation of federal employment laws.

There were no employment laws broken. Why do Trump voters always say the Democrats are breaking laws? It's just the Trump voters whining about nothing. There were no laws broken. And it's just so funny about bringing up the Trump voters (in the hundreds) cancelling their shows. ha ha ha- like that is going to bring down a billion-dollar show. Hundreds. Is that a joke?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Strangerland: No, I didn't.

Strangerland: Let's not forget that you didn't provide any supporting evidence to this claim, and that when the alt-right does that, it invariably means that the claim doesn't actually hold up to scrutiny.

Strangerland: Which didn't hold up to scrutiny.

Actually, it does. Even 'Hamilton' wasn't boldfaced enough to continue with it, they changed their casting call the same day Breitbart called them out on it.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

direct violation of federal employment laws.

There were no laws broken. Why do Trump voters keep saying the Hamilton casting management broke federal employment laws?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Trump is very good at dishing out criticisms

He should be able to take it

Don't dish it out if ya can't take it

And don't ask for apologies if ya never give it (wait, there was once)

If ya gonna pride yourself at being direct -- telling it like it is -- then don't be a wussy when people are direct with ya too

Wouldn't people want to be more direct with their public servants

9 ( +9 / -0 )

It's called free speech, Donald. When you become POTUS, try getting rid of it if your skin is not thick enough. Yeah, shoe on the other foot. At no time was Spence's life in danger and neither did he receive any verbal abuse - I can't say the same about the meetings he and Donald had with members of the public.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Until Trump gives a sincere apology for how he conducted his campaign, and for all the groping he did of women, and for all the people he scammed in his businesses, he can expect that he and those around him will be booed whenever and wherever they go out in public. Given that Trump has never in his life apologized for his horrific behavior, and that he is the oldest person ever elected president, I do not expect that he will start behaving morally now.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Welcome to Trump's world:

A world without free speech. A world filled with hate. A world where if you're a woman, you need to know your place.

A world where he is allowed to be him (a bigot, a liar, a cheater, a backstabber, a misogynist, a rapist, a free-talker, a shifty cutting-corners businessman, and a downright fraud), but you are not allowed to be like him.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Actually, it does. Even 'Hamilton' wasn't boldfaced enough to continue with it, they changed their casting call the same day Breitbart called them out on it.

They made it clearer. Nothing wrong with that. It's essentially the exact same thing though.

Considering the right has been going on for over a year about PC gone amok, it seems really strange that you'd be complaining that they went more PC after you guys complained about it not being PC enough.

You guys are all over the place.

As I said, Texas Maggie's claim didn't stand up to scrutiny.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Having read and reread the transcript of Mr. Dixon's speech, it doesn't seem bad at all. I've heard worse by schoolkids at a playground. Mr. Dixon delivered a message in the most polite way imaginable. There was no foul language, no rant, just a plea. No one was hurt, nothing was broken.

Trump's reaction to it is like a kid's mom lambasting another kid who just called her kid a name. Pence sounds like he went home crying to Trump for having his feelings hurt. I can't believe this is the type of weak-willed people we will have filling our country's top two positions.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Pence Got What He Deserved.

Anyone who pays $850 per ticket to hear some black guy rapping about the political/central banking monster Alexander Hamilton deserves whatever he gets.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Talk about giving the stick to get beaten! Unfortunately Pence should NEVER have attended this show or at least should have done so privately without anyone knowing. What did he expect, a standing ovation?

Pretty obvious that musicals casts aren't pro Trump or any conservative for that matter. Most are from minorities (ethnic, sexual etc) the very same minorities that were targeted or ridiculed by Trump during the campaign.what did he think would happen!?

Again, I dont particularly like what these actors did on stage I.e hijackimg the show, but DT has no right to complain. Very naive to expect a different outcome.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Lefties will protest in their "stage" area, but I've never seen them protesting in the most dangerous areas of the inner cities. MSM rules it seems from the robotic comments here.

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

Lefties will protest in their "stage" area, but I've never seen them protesting in the most dangerous areas of the inner cities.

We need more gun laws

DT has no right to complain.

Get ready for a lot more

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I think the point is that a fair public platform wasn't ensured.

If you are going to give a politically motivated lecture to someone in public then a basic point of free speech is that the person being lectured has the right to reply.

Getting a lecture from a theater stage in front of an audience who is booing you... it seems a very unbalanced and unfair platform.

The cast might have wanted to consider how unbalanced these circumstances were... only they could enjoy free speech under these conditions.

Or maybe they are happy to have a platform that guarantees that only their voice will be heard.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

New York. Theater. What the hell did Pence expect? And it's not just New York - Trump and Pence must come to terms with the fact that the way they "won" the election is highly offensive to many people, that these people will neither forgive nor forget this, and that neither person will be eagerly welcomed anywhere on the planet (except, perhaps, Russia) no or in the future.

Still, Pence can take solace that his situation did not rise to that bromide, "Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play??"

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Wow. Al Jolson: 1; Common Sense: 0 from the squirrel spotters.

Nice diversion from the fact that the president-elect squeaked the following tweet:

The cast of Hamilton was very rude last night to a very good man, Mike Pence. Apologize!

despite modelling far, far worse behaviour himself.

Just who does he think he is?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

"New York. Theater. What the hell did Pence expect? And it's not just New York - Trump and Pence must come to terms with the fact that the way they "won" the election is highly offensive to many people, that these people will neither forgive nor forget this, and that neither person will be eagerly welcomed anywhere on the planet (except, perhaps, Russia) no or in the future."

I'm just wondering what the Trump voters really think of this. I'm convinced many of them truly believe Trump said nothing out of order during his campaign. Others remind me of schoolboys with their blazer pockets on fire telling the teacher they weren't smoking. I think most of them are the second types.

Be honest with yourselves. This man's campaign was rancid trash and a knuckle-dragging religious homophobe isn't going to be welcomed in a place full of stage actors.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

The truth of the matter is...And this is something people are not getting. Pence represents 50% of the American public, whose views are the same as his. I don't like the Trump machinery at all either, but to somehow portray Pence and Trump as the dangers to American values is ass backwards This dichotomy in American values is what needs to be addressed....

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Kindly show me in any place, anywhere I have said or written that. You're not making things up again, are you?

Then there is no need to mention Bannon's name at all. If you want to talk about racism, fine. I know it's the choice preferred topic for liberals anyway

If you re-read what I wrote I said: "...Bannon's shock tabloid..." But I know, the alt right are post-truth-ian and live in a fact-free bubble.

No, they don't believe in dwelling and whining over petty and insignificant things.

These people criticize the MSM, then go on to believe news like Breitbart, which does not operate under a code of ethics, and is non-ethical repeatedly.

Given how the MSM kept skewing the poll results and polled more Democrats than conservatives, I think the liberal media in its entirety throughout this whole campaign should be deeply ashamed of themselves for making this personal instead of being objective journalists. Thank God the people didn't fall for it.

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

to somehow portray Pence and Trump as the dangers to American values is ass backwards

Actually this post is about Trump's thin skin and throwing tantrums time after time after time and what can be expected as good comedy in the future. The US power is too balanced for two people to have that much power to have any dangers to American values.

Here is a thick skinned individual Dick Cheney and his reaction to Go FFFF yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmhmYYjrVUY

How graceful of DC, and too bad Trump is such a lightweight.

Dick Cheney is a man with dragon skin and 100% unembarrassable. He was hated, he knew it, but he didn't care.

A bunch of actors who wear tights for a living lecturing people. BEAUTIFUL!

I'm sure they would thank you for your compliment thinking actors in tights are beautiful. Some Republicans are like that but are closeted about it. It's good to be open and honest.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I'm sure they would thank you for your compliment thinking actors in tights are beautiful. Some Republicans are like that but are closeted about it. It's good to be open and honest.

nishikat - my god. did you just assume my gender, AND my sexual orientation while hinting that homosexuality is something to be ashamed of??

That is soooo evil. I feel sorry for your intolerant ways....

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Dick Cheney is a man with dragon skin and 100% unembarrassable. He was hated, he knew it, but he didn't care.

Why should he?

Be honest with yourselves. This man's campaign was rancid trash and a knuckle-dragging religious homophobe isn't going to be welcomed in a place full of stage actors.

Not really, I think the powers that be and the evil establishment in D.C. tried their best to make it as trashy as possible. Also, how do you know he's a homophobe? Did he convey to you that gays must die? Did he say gays should be stoned to death? Can you please back that up, if not, don't speculate.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Can you please back that up, if not, don't speculate.

HuffingtonPost citation in 3...2...1.....

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

HuffingtonPost citation in 3...2...1.....

Here is a citation

http://www.oddee.com/item_99094.aspx

Here is a list of outed gay Conservatives.

Ted Haggard describes himself as A conservative evangelist who describes himself as heterosexual with “complications”

But check out that link. They are Conservative gay haters who turned out to be gay themselves. Your post raised some red flags about that.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

"Also, how do you know he's a homophobe? Did he convey to you that gays must die? Did he say gays should be stoned to death?"

Is your definition of a homophobe someone who calls for the execution of homosexuals?

I just want to clarify this. David Duke is a racist in my book despite the fact that he hasn't called for the execution of black people as far as I know. I hope he's a racist in your book.

I'd also say that people who refuse to rent to black people or said they would refuse to rent to black people are racists on my book. I'm sure you'd agree.

I just want to clarify the terms before going any further. I'd say giving equal rights to all law-abiding citizens is a good thing.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Typical sad liberal, this actor Dixon. he thinks this qualifies as a "conversation". I guess to liberals, this IS conversation: you shut up, we speak. Not exactly a "conversation" by my reckoning. I would loooooooooove to see that actor sit down and try to debate VP-elect Pence one on one. Lamb to the slaughter.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Prez-elect possessed by Twitter:

"Jump, Darn Dolt!"

(Donald J Trump anagram)

1 ( +1 / -0 )

He literally believes in the bible. His words, not HP's.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Pence refused to state an acceptance of evolution when questioned by Chris Matthews.

Two choices are available:

Choice one: He's a liar who said this to placate religious knuckle-draggers.

Choice two: He's a religious knuckle-dragger.

I have more respect for choice two.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

This Dixon guy is sure in the right profession, he is definitely a drama queen. If he wanted to "have a conversation" as he stated, then shouting at someone who isn't even in the audience anymore is hardly the way to do it. However, if he wanted to perform an act of conspicuous virtue signalling, it was the perfect opportunity.

I mean, what was Gov. Pence supposed to do as a part of this "conversation"? Go back into the theatre, climb onto the stage, and engage with this egotistical thespian? No, this was pure grandstanding. Yet another leftie who doesn't have the intellectual discipline or maturity to actually discuss the issues that concern him.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Pence put forth legislation in his home state that opened the door to discrimination against gay people. He finally relented when businesses threatened to pull out of the state.

The cast reminded him that we are all Americans and they expect our leaders to be inclusive of everyone. Seems like a fitting rebuttal.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

SuperLib; you really think that Pence doesn't know that you are "all Americans"? Did he somehow forget that during the second intermission?

Condescension is not argument. Shouting trite political bromides is not conversation. Pence said nothing during the performance, so there was nothing to rebut. No, just another hypersensitive manchild who cannot muster up the courage to have a real discussion of the issues without resorting to boilerplate shibboleths.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

When a stage entertainments are not profitable, everyone tryout to. make the show gets fake sensation.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Is your definition of a homophobe someone who calls for the execution of homosexuals?

No, I call that a sick individual that needs to be put down le

I just want to clarify this. David Duke is a racist in my book despite the fact that he hasn't called for the execution of black people as far as I know. I hope he's a racist in your book.

That he is, but the guy is so irrelevant.

I'd also say that people who refuse to rent to black people or said they would refuse to rent to black people are racists on my book. I'm sure you'd agree.

Not necessarily. That would depend. Evicting someone because they don't pay and happen to be Black doesn't mean, the person is a rapist.

I just want to clarify the terms before going any further. I'd say giving equal rights to all law-abiding citizens is a good thing.

I hope you are aware, there are a lot of people playing the race card.

Well, Pence believes in zombies. Also, he thinks the earth was created 2,300 years ago and Jesus lived among dinosaurs. You are right. That would be very difficult to debate with someone who literally believes that.

If he believes in that, so what? He has the right to believe in anything he wants, whether you find it comical or not.

Well, Pence believes in zombies. Also, he thinks the earth was created 2,300 years ago and Jesus lived among dinosaurs. You are right. That would be very difficult to debate with someone who literally believes that.

And that's ok, if they believe that, then move on. I could reallly care less what they guys believe in as on as they do they're jobs and show som fortitude, unlike Obama, they can believe in whatever God they like.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Oh man, the next government is going to be sooooo much better than the current one.

David Webb accuses 'Hamilton' cast of hypocrisy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah-Sp34u7HQ

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Found it.

peterl: Let's not forget that the Justice Department has sued Trump Management Corporation twice for not renting out to black people.

bass: Mar. 18, 2016 - 05:16PM JST Have you been to Chicago? I lived in Chicago for 3 weeks and to be honest, I wouldn't either, not because it's racist, but the people that do these assaults, the majority of them are Black, being overly cautious doesn't mean you are a racist.

I think the idea is that there's a line. If you don't rent to black people because you don't like black people, then you are racist. If you don't rent to black people because they are involved in assault, then you are a prudent businessman. That's my only guess as to how it's rationalized.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Oh my...

Judge Jeanine on the Hamilton cast hypocrisy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYHsnh8xw5Q&t=150s

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

What's really rich is Trump reached out to blacks by saying they live in bad neighborhoods while he himself segregated black tenants away from white neighborhoods at his real estate company.

I really don't think people understand the impact of this. I've worked in real estate and you learn about the history of things like redlining where banks refused to give loans to certain neighborhoods. If you steer minorities to an area to segregate them, then you don't provide loans to that area, it means fewer black people own homes. A white person with similar financials does get a loan.

So the black family ends up renting instead of buying and the loss of equity over decades is a killer. The white family buys the house, pays it off, then transfers the money to their children. Then children do the same and the line continues. Black families who are denied loans or housing don't get that so as the generations move on there's much less wealth creation to pass down and build on.

People who say things like, "Sure, but Trump did that in the 70s" have no understanding of this. Those people denied loans in the 70s now have grandchildren, and since their path to wealth creation was stunted by blatant racism that grandchild will most likely start off with much less wealth than his white counterparts to build on.

Now expand the situation to include things like jobs and education and you can see how things done decades ago play out to today. To top it off, some people look at the black child with less family wealth and chalk it up to, "Looks like his family didn't work very hard."

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I go to a show or sporting event to be entertained and not to hear someone's political views. It reminds me of the South Korean football fans bringing anti-Japan banners to matches which has absolutely nothing to do with the men on the field. A few days ago, Kanye West stopped his concert to go on a rant about how he supports Donald Trump. I want to be entertained at a concert not lectured.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

bass: don't know what transpired

Sure we do. The government filed a complaint against Trump and did an investigation. They interviewed employees. They had a case where a black man was told no units were available and then a white women was given an application for a rental unit in the same building the next day. They learned what "C" meant on Trump applications.

nothing has worked

Excpet for the deal he struck with the government where he was required to make changes because he was found to be violating housing laws and civil rights laws by not renting to blacks.

why he had to evict them

So you are going to ride out this "eviction" thing in a conversation about denying someone from renting in the first place? Alrighty.

And would you still support the statement you made earlier in the year or have you changed your tune?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Oh man I just love it how suddenly the US has a critical press again... critical of the next president though, although he won´t be in office for for another 3 months. The current regime is protected and coddled as it has been for the last 8 years. Can´t wait for this nightmare to be over.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

sensenotcommon:

" Trump tweets: theater “must always be a safe and special place.” Just like beauty pageant changing rooms, Donald? "

How just like the "safe spaces" that the social justice warriors have been clamouring for at universities and more?

You people really do not see how you are being trolled here, LOL!

The cluesless mainstream media and their followers are a sight to behold.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

I think the idea is that there's a line. If you don't rent to black people because you don't like black people, then you are racist. If you don't rent to black people because they are involved in assault, then you are a prudent businessman. That's my only guess as to how it's rationalized.

That's the problem with liberal rationalization, the arguments when it comes to race never make sense in a theoretical world.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

"That's the problem with liberal rationalization, the arguments when it comes to race never make sense in a theoretical world."

It's a very simple question, Bass. Forget eviction. Is refusing someone accommodation based on their race racism in your book?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

rude, immature behavior. grand-standing at its worst.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Jimizo: Pence refused to state an acceptance of evolution when questioned by Chris Matthews. ... Two choices are available: ... Choice one: He's a liar who said this to placate religious knuckle-draggers. ... Choice two: He's a religious knuckle-dragger. ... I have more respect for choice two.

So what did Hillary and Obama say when Chris Matthews tried to pin them down on that? Did he try?

Actually, Obama appears to be a Creationist who believes in Evolution.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/21/barack-obama-earth-creation_n_2170810.html

Barack Obama In 2008: Bible's Account Of God Creating Earth 'Essentially True' (VIDEO) ...

(link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCmBgWdoOoE) ...

Brown: Senator, if one of your daughters asked you -- and maybe they already have -- “Daddy, did God really create the world in 6 days?,” what would you say?

Obama: I'm trying to remember if we've had this conversation. You know, what I've said to them is that I believe that God created the universe and that the six days in the Bible may not be six days as we understand it, it may not be 24-hour days, and that's what I believe. I know there's always a debate between those who read the Bible literally and those who don't, and that I think it's a legitimate debate within the Christian community of which I'm a part. My belief is that the story that the Bible tells about God creating this magnificent Earth on which we live -- that is essentially true, that is fundamentally true. Now, whether it happened exactly as we might understand it reading the text of the Bible. That, I don't presume to know.

Obama then went on to state that he strongly believes in the principles of science and evolution, saying that they coexist alongside and even strengthen his religious views. ... Rubio, on the other hand, appeared to suggest that creationism should be taught as a competing theory to evolution. ...

Still, it doesn't change the fact that Obama appeared to be carrying out a similar political calculus in finessing an answer that wouldn't upset religious sensibilities regarding an issue that scientists consider unequivocally settled. ...

Your "Choice one: He's a liar who said this to placate religious knuckle-draggers." applies to both Pence and Obama, except the 'liar' part (I wouldn't especially say that about either of them, in this case).

Basically, they are all politicians who are trying to harvest the maximum number of votes from their electorates, not angering their core constituencies too much. If they didn't do that, they'd be retired politicians, not VP-elect and President.

You call Pence out on it while ignoring Obama (and, I guess, Hillary).

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I was somewhat bemused by Trump's whiny demands for apologies. At least Mike Pence knows how to show a bit of class and take this kind of thing on the chin:

"Hamilton is just an incredible production, incredibly talented people and it was a real joy to be there," he said.

He acknowledged that he heard "a few boos" and "some cheers".

"I nudged my kids and reminded them that’s what freedom sounds like," he said.

"But at the end I did hear what was said from the stage. I can tell you I wasn’t offended by what was said - I’ll leave it to others as to whether it was the appropriate venue to say it."

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Oh man I just love it how suddenly the US has a critical press again... critical of the next president though, although he won´t be in office for for another 3 months. The current regime is protected and coddled as it has been for the last 8 years. Can´t wait for this nightmare to be over.

There's a good reason for that. The current (soon to be former) president has been amazing. The upcoming president rose to power on a campaign of discrimination and anger.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Is refusing someone accommodation based on their race racism in your book?

Not necessarily as I have said before. If Trump flat out said, "I won't rent to Blacks because they are horrible lazy people", then that would be a racist statement. If we only have a one sided, he said, she said kind of report, then I would cautiously take it with a grain of salt unless you can prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

If you are not renting to someone based on their race, you are racist, no ifs, ands or buts about it.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

If you want us to feel bad for hating hate and haters, you've got a long, long road ahead of you. There is absolutely nothing wrong with hating those who hate.

That's exactly what I am talking about. Hate is hate, no matter how you justify it.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

It's becoming a bit clearer. If you don't rent to blacks because you hate blacks, then you are racist. But if you have a legimite reason to ban an entire race, then you aren't racist.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

If you are not renting to someone based on their race, you are racist, no ifs, ands or buts about it.

Ok, that's your opinion, but I disagree.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

@Bass

Please tell us what you think are justifiable reasons to refuse accommodation to someone based on their race. You must know what they are.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

the message from the cast is not disrespectful and they are entitled to express their opinions but on the other had they are being paid to perform not express opinions and should do so on their own time and forum.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I saw a video of Pence's response to the Left wing actor's lecture to his empty seat in the theater. He took the criticism pretty well. Too bad the Left is still in full blown meltdown mode 10 days after the election. Everything is great when they are lording over their political enemies with their phone and pen. Now they fear that the Republicans will treat them with the same disregard and are terrified at the prospect.

"Elections have consequences." - BHO

2 ( +3 / -1 )

That's exactly what I am talking about. Hate is hate, no matter how you justify it.

Nope. Hating hatred is ok. Tolerance of hatred is just pandering to unreasonable values, which gives those unreasonable values legitimacy.

Ok, that's your opinion, but I disagree.

Racism is when you apply stereotypes (justified or not) about a race to an individual, regardless of the actual qualities of the individual. If you are not renting to someone due to their race, based on your beliefs about that race, you are applying your beliefs about the race as a whole, to that individual, even though that individual may not even remotely embody the beliefs you hold.

For example, in Chicago, as you so often remind us, there are many black people killing black people. By your logic, it's fair to refuse to rent to black people in Chicago as a result. So a black lawyer, who graduated manga cum laude from Harvard would be denied by you, based on your beliefs that black people in Chicago are violent thugs, even though this lawyer is not a thug whatsoever.

That my friend is racism, pure and simple. You are applying discriminating behavior to an entire group based on the actions of a portion of that group.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

This is absolutely a manufactured story to take heat off the lawsuit Trump settled. Better get used to it America! Dis/Mis~information will be the hallmark of this administration.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Oh my...

Judge Jeanine: Mike Pence deserves respect and acceptance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyT-kHy72zU

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Here's where we are:

bass: "I won't rent to Blacks because they are horrible lazy people", then that would be a racist statement.

And

bass: I wouldn't [rent to blacks], not because it's racist, but the people that do these assaults, the majority of them are Black

I think we're done here.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Oh my...

Judge Jeanine on the Hamilton cast hypocrisy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYHsnh8xw5Q&t=150s

Oh my...

Here's Judge Jeanine's long-lost North Korean twin, right down to the fluttering flag

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7J2Nnl7Ano

Hilarious if it wasn't so terrifying. Wake up, America!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

"Wake up, America!"

We did! Hillary's out!

Oh my...

NoDAPL: Hamilton Cast Ignores Dakota Access Pipeline and Clinton's Racist Joke To Lecture VP Pence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DrmQH_ggKQ&t=1010s

0 ( +3 / -3 )

that cast has absolutely no class. tacky, shabby, juvenile.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

If this was somebody on stage calling out Obama, would anybody have any problem with it?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Hating hatred is ok.

You just think you are hating hatred. In fact, you are ascribing hatred to people you hate to justify yourself.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@Outrider that cast has absolutely no class. tacky, shabby, juvenile....Who is responding to them by going on a tweet war now that has absolutely no class. tacky, shabby, juvenile.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

northernlife, as always the "progressives" pop up and point to the behavior of another party to justify what someone else did. I guess they dont teach it anymore in elementary school that that reasoning is to say the least, unsound. Im not a trump supporter and did not vote for him (for the umpteenth time). What that cast did is pathetically immature, not to mention rude. what anyone else does afterwards doesnt change that.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

If this was somebody on stage calling out Obama, would anybody have any problem with it?

Highly unlikely, though, isn't it?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

If this was somebody on stage calling out Obama, would anybody have any problem with it?

Highly unlikely, though, isn't it?

Well, an US Congressman did interrupt and shout "You lie!" during Obama's speech to Congress a few years ago - that's the closest thing that comes to mind right now.

Still, the hypothetical question remains: if this was somebody on stage calling out Obama, would you have a problem with it?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

sense, plenty that people could lecture obama about. The difference is, manners and maturity.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Still, the hypothetical question remains: if this was somebody on stage calling out Obama, would you have a problem with it?

Obama wouldn't. Mike Pence didn't, either.

The difference is, manners and maturity.

Outrider, you oft repeat that you're not a Trump fan, yet you're happy to tie your horse to this post. Why the conflict... manners and maturity?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

no conflict. I didnt support him and didnt vote for him. That doesnt mean I buy into the hypocritical and delusional "progressive" agenda - just to be clear I definitely do not. And yes, if obama had been treated the same way that pence was I would be condemning it the same.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

And yes, if obama had been treated the same way that pence was I would be condemning it the same.

But surely Freedom of Speech is enshrined and protected in the First Amendment?

For the record, Obama endured a lot, lot worse, with the same grace that Mike Pence displayed. Pity about the latter's soon-to-be line manager.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

free speech is no excuse for rudeness. surprised youre trying to make it one.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

free speech is no excuse for rudeness.

Orwell would be proud of that statement.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

But Trump using his Twitter account to attack gold star families is ok.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Yes of course Trump and his Trumpettes can't handle an appeal to their previous values. They voted for fascism. Those values are gone. The rest of the country just doesn't know it yet

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Hey. Let's all realize that it could have been a lot worse. Pence got off easy.

Detachment? Is that what we want? Do we all want to say that we should just be quiet and accept what happens passively? Well, when has that ever been the spirit of interaction between LGBT and the Christian right? Like. Never. I remember back to the Reagan years when Keating, Falwell, and Pat Robertson and others were using AIDS as a political football instead of solving the problem. ACT UP ... acted up... and a lot of Hollywood emphasis on the disease as a humanitarian crisis eventually brought the US public around, and things got better.

Pence and Trump were elected as symbols, unless people actually admire ignorant misogynist racists all of a sudden, and so they are treated as symbols by people who feel threatened. I have never heard Pence make statements that the rights of LGBT people will be respected unconditionally, and obviously people would like to hear that. If actors feel moved so strongly to make a statement during an ovation, that can be respected. They put their careers on the line for a two minute statement.

Let's remember how divisive this particular campaign was, and look at all the norms that Trump violated. Over time, people will accept that lies can win elections, but most people have trouble swallowing that.

One other thing. Uncertainty drives people to take drastic actions. People who protest loudly against Trumpence are not protesting what Trumpence are DOING. In fact they are doing nothing. No. They are protesting what they MIGHT do. And if Trumpence winds up being a Hitler/Himmler takeover of American culture and government, then their protests will probably look like an UNDER-reaction. On the other hand, if Trumpence winds up stalled and a lame duck after the first two years, then this will look like an OVER-reaction. Point being that we don't know which it is yet, do we? Does anybody? Protests will calm down once we see some rationality from Trump and toned down rhetoric.

By the way, does Pence really believe that electrocuting gay people will make them straight? Because if he does, then he deserves a lot more ridicule than a simple polite statement from an actor.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The difference is that Pence had to walk away. Had it been Trump he would have left too. If it had been Obama or Biden they would have joined them on the stage. That's all you need to know about today's USA that can no longer embrace its own values.

Cities are the answer. They're multicultural economic engines not the plebs in the woods If there is any economic redress that will occur it will happen from there to their surrounding areas, not the ideological federal systems

In solidarity there is no fear

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The irony that most don't get is that the play is fiction (but people think it's true) celebrating a man who people would abhor if he were alive today and a politician. For instance, he advocated the president, vice president, and members of Congress should serve for life after being elected.

That's all you need to know..

And the Obama, Biden comment about being on stage is ridiculous.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Trumps demand of an apology is just a side-show distraction to get everyone talking about him and not about his "Trump University" settlement (all but admitting that he committed some kind of fraud) or his appointment of alt-right troll and fascist-supporter Bannon as his White House adviser. And despite Trump's supporters' shouts of "lügenpresse" while making Nazi salutes, the so-called "main-stream media" has continually played along with Trump's game. No, the real story is the call for boycotts of Hamilton by ordinary Americans. Never mind that the people calling for a boycott were never going to buy tickets anyway, notice what taj points out:

tajNOV. 20, 2016 - 09:36AM JST The audience members booing Pence were indeed rude, but the speech from the cast was not.

The audience was rude, the cast were not, yet the cast is getting all the anger and "punishment" from the public over this incident. What this shows us is that the story the media has been telling us about rural America's supposed resentment of being ignored being the source of their Trump support clearly can't be true - otherwise, they'd be after the audience that did the booing. Their anger is transferred to the cast though, and the only explanation is that one of "them", you know a "theater-type" (and everyone in the Midwest knows what that means) who looked on the video like a person of color was lecturing one of "us" (a white Christian straight man) about what he should do. That's the disrespect that has Trump supporters in such a tizzy - not the booing, the audacity that one of "them" thinks they know better than one of "us".

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The skids have been greased for the left's latest posterboy, if the left conforms to its new-found Puritanism.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2016/11/21/hamilton-star-lectured-pence-fire-racist-sexist-tweets/

‘Hamilton’ Star Who Lectured Pence Under Fire for ‘Racist,’ ‘Sexist’ Tweets - 21 Nov 2016

St. Patty's day weekend is like Christmas for black dudes who like white chicks. Happy holidays boys. - Brandon Victor Dixon

@TAMIKASLAWRENCE the problem is ho's aren't what they used to be. If ho game would step up, cats wouldn't get distracted. - Brandon Victor Dixon

(retweet) “@jleefilm: 4 every racist comment I get about Trayvon Im going 2 turn 1 white married suburban housewife & mother n2 a jump off” The. Best. - Brandon Victor Dixon

The phrase “jump off,” is a euphemism for a casual sex partner.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Turbotsat, no surprises there - the lefts new hero grabbing his 15 minutes of fame is himself a racist mysoginist. And here was I thinking he was simply a boorish grand stander. Thanks for that info.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

You're welcome :) ... Snopes even fact-checked it! Probably just a throwaway point against a minor player, to show how balanced they are.

http://www.snopes.com/brandon-victor-dixon-tweet/

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The skids have been greased for the left's latest posterboy,

What exactly makes a person left? They don't believe that Obama was born in Kenya? That's the litmus test? Or they don't believe in zombies (and Pence does, really and literally) or they don't believe the earth was created 2,450 years ago? That makes someone left? Please be specific.

Trump is a lightweight and a crybaby. Obama is tough and he did not lash back when Trump said he was born in Kenya over and over.

Trump says there will be no deportation police. Also, he said there will be no Muslim registry. He played you Conservatives! He could declare millions green card amnesty like Reagan did. BURN

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Not believing Obama was born in Kenya?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

“We, sir, we are the diverse America who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us, our planet, our children, our parents, or defend us and uphold our inalienable rights,” said Brandon Victor Dixon, who plays Aaron Burr, the nation’s third vice president, as his fellow actors joined hands. “We truly hope that this show has inspired you to uphold our American values and to work on behalf of all of us.”

Whoever is offended by Hamilton cast speech is all that is wrong with the USA. If nothing else it will bring people together who haven't talked in a long time to find common ground against Trump/Pence and all they stand for. The minority who won over a majority will not get far but it will take a nation to awaken to stop it. Little trolls on forums aren't going to work anymore.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

You just think you are hating hatred. In fact, you are ascribing hatred to people you hate to justify yourself.

I'm a straight white upper-middle class male. I don't need to justify myself - I already got dealt a lucky hand.

But it disgusts me to watch people trying to justify discrimination and bigotry. While I'm not Christian, I strongly subscribe to the idea behind the saying 'There but for the grace of god go I'. Any of us could. So I hate it when people discriminate and try to justify bigotry against minorities. It has nothing to do with me, and everything to do with human decency towards our fellow human beings. We're all in this together. So I'm not going to feel bad about hating hatred. And I'm going to continue hating it.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

nishikat: What exactly makes a person left?

You've probably got a definition in your own mind. You can use that one.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

I guess that was the Encore to an Overpriced B'way show- However The U.S. will be getting a Four Year Run & that show is just in "previews" So Buck Up folks!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

You've probably got a definition in your own mind. You can use that one.

Like I said, Trump voters think that Obama was born in Kenya. I am using that one and that is what Trump uses.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

That cast better be careful,CHUMP might have them all deported once he is sworn in! It is absolutely hilarious how he DEMANDS an apology,has he ever apologized for anything he has said that was disrespectful,hateful,crude or downright wrong?? Oh wait he is Donald CHUMP he never says anything like that.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

He went on Twitter and specifically targeted the cast of Hamilton to apologize, but does nothing to address the speeches at the National Policy Institute (alt-right) annual meeting, except giving a very vague "racists are bad" message. Why doesn't President-elect Trump just say "Radical White Supremacists"!?!? He kept pressing Obama about not saying "Radical Islamic Terrorists". Given the type of comments he's made throughout the campaign (and many years prior), he should be the last one to complain about "hurtful words", which the cast of Hamilton did not even come close to using. LMAO, he said the theater should be some kind of safe place...........a safe space? Hmm...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Still waiting for Trump to apologize to all the people he insulted during his campaign...

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Not necessarily. That would depend. Evicting someone because they don't pay and happen to be Black doesn't mean, the person is a rapist.

Bass4funk: Your comment doesn't make sense at all. How can a black person be evicted if he or she isn't even allowed to rent an apartment in the first place. The definition of eviction, is that you have to have been living at that place first. You can't be evicted from something, if you're not even living there in the first place. Trump doesn't even allow blacks the chance to rent an apartment.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Login to leave a comment

Facebook users

Use your Facebook account to login or register with JapanToday. By doing so, you will also receive an email inviting you to receive our news alerts.

Facebook Connect

Login with your JapanToday account

User registration

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites