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Defiant Ecuador drops U.S. trade deal over Snowden case

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Their loss.

-15 ( +5 / -19 )

“Ecuador unilaterally and irrevocably renounces these preferential customs tariff rights,” Communications Minister Fernando Alvarado said, reading a government statement.

“Ecuador does not accept pressure or threats from anyone, and does not trade on principles or make them contingent on commercial interests, even if those interests are important,” he said.

No decision taken by Ecuador and calling them defiant? to waive tarrif benefits is indeed a great sacrifice in this capitalist world !

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Good. And take their money while you're at it.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

The government of leftist President Rafael Correa said that while it had received the preferential rights in exchange for its cooperation in the war on drugs, they had become a “new instrument of blackmail.”

You just have to love small nations that won't bend to U.S. blackmail.

President Correa is the one, who when late Venezuelan leader Chavez compared George W. Bush to the devil, asserted that this was an injustice to Satan.

5 ( +11 / -7 )

Its blackmail to want a criminal back?

5 ( +14 / -9 )

" Its blackmail to want a criminal back?"

It's a crime to expose government wrongdoing in this dystopian world.

4 ( +16 / -12 )

Matthew SimonJun. 28, 2013 - 08:48AM JST Its blackmail to want a criminal back?

Seriously ?!

-3 ( +5 / -9 )

The leftist government also offered the United States $23 million in “economic aid” for “human rights training” to prevent attacks on people’s privacy, torture and extrajudicial executions.

Just call it a friendly gift from one Leftist government to another.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

First of all, while the U.S. probably won't notice the increase in flower prices, I think that Ecuadorians might notice it when their economy craters because 40% of their export market dissapears. Then they might have something to say about whether Snowden is worth it (which he is not).

Secondly, if you would like to mail your check to me for the $23 million, I will make sure that it gets to the right people.

And has anybody else noticed that Communications Minister Fernando Alvarado looks very much like a minion or a henchman for an evildoer? This photo made me giggle.

-12 ( +5 / -17 )

You just have to love small nations that won't bend to U.S. blackmail.

I sure do. And I love it even more that, they know it will hurt them in the end and that they are worried, but they want to act and have the US believe that it's not a problem. I have been to that country twice. You can see American products everywhere. They DO need the US, whether they say so or NOT. Cutting Ecuador off, might be a good thing and that puts more money in our pockets. For once, I am with the WH on this. Good for them.

-15 ( +4 / -19 )

Jean & Eppee This guy hardly had any righteous agenda, If he wanted to do the right thing he wouldn't have been selling secrets. This guy is all about himself and his own fame. I don't like the idea or support government eavesdropping on its own population for dubious reasons which under the US Constitution could be interpreted as an unlawful search and seizure. But the fact of this case is that Mr. Snowden broke the law is traitorous & committed espionage and should be punished for it. There are other avenues to report government wrong doing that are legal. I would ask how many of those he pursued before indulging in his self serving quest for fame.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

" This guy hardly had any righteous agenda, …"

Patently false. He clearly stated his purpose as a whistleblower, to expose the massive unconstitutional surveillance.

"If he wanted to do the right thing he wouldn't have been selling secrets…"

Again, patently false. He hasn't sold any secrets. Do you have any EVIDENCE that he has sold anything? Or just baseless accusations?

The SMEAR campaign is in full swing by the Leviathan Empire and its minions.

7 ( +12 / -5 )

Patently false. He clearly stated his purpose as a whistleblower, to expose the massive unconstitutional surveillance.

Really then why didn't he whistle blow legally? There is an actual fully legitimate process for that rather than running to the hills to spill his guts? Did he even try? Doubt it. This was all about him making a name for himself.

Again, patently false. He hasn't sold any secrets. Do you have any EVIDENCE that he has sold anything? Or just baseless accusations?

If you don't think he is getting any money from this you are as ignorant as you purport me to be. Or do all those plane tickets accommodations news spots and interviews come for free? This guy is a self serving douche bag.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

The U.S. clearly does not have juice like it used to have.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

The U.S. clearly does not have juice like it used to have.

Usually with a Democratic elected president, Yes, that's very true.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

Bass, that's because Democrats follow Republican administrations which have stripped the cupboard bare. Nixon left nothing for Carter; Reagan/Bush left nothing for Clinton; we all remember what happened with Bush Jr.

I was pleased with Obama's remarks yesterday basically brushing off the whole Snowden thing. He'll be caught eventually, but he certainly isn't worth damaging international relations.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

" There is an actual fully legitimate process for that…"

Yes, through the government goons who will jail you, just as other whistleblowers were prosecuted(persecuted) and silenced.

" If you don't think he is getting any money from this you are as ignorant as you purport me to be."

Is he getting financial support? Possibly. Is that PAYMENT? No.

" This guy is a self serving douche bag."

You just proved my point of the SMEAR campaign by the Leviathan Empire and its minions.

0 ( +7 / -6 )

Offering the US $23 million fo "human rights training" is just brilliant. Although I suspect the US needs a fair bit more training then $23 million can buy before it understands that detention without charge or trial, enhanced interrogation (torture), special rendition and spying on your own people are bad things.

The Us has dug itself into a bit of a hole here by firstly coming out all guns blasting demanding first China nad then Russia do as they say only to find out nobody is scared of the bully anymore.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Good for Ecuador!

The U.S.A. throws tantrums like a spoiled kid when it doesn't get its own way.

6 ( +14 / -7 )

@laguna

that's because Democrats follow Republican administrations which have stripped the cupboard bare. Nixon left nothing for Carter; Reagan/Bush left nothing for Clinton; we all remember what happened with Bush Jr.

Hmmm, why is that, liberals NEVER want to take their fair share of mistakes, it's always "someone else's fault" Carter left Reagan with a hostage crisis, Clinton left Bush with a recession and we all know how Obama is dealing with issues. When you whine like that and make excuses, it seems like as if you are implying that Democrats are incapable of governing, I might tend to believe you.

I was pleased with Obama's remarks yesterday basically brushing off the whole Snowden thing.

He's brushing it off like he does everything else. This president is ALL bark and neutered without a tinge of bite!

He'll be caught eventually, but he certainly isn't worth damaging international relations.

Yeah, after Snowden gives up all of our secrets and bled dry by our enemies and as if our relationship with Europe is just darn peachy. Oh, riiiight....

-14 ( +0 / -14 )

Yes, through the government goons who will jail you, just as other whistleblowers were prosecuted(persecuted) and silenced.

Ah the old government is always evil retort. Incidents have happened I agree. But there is a federal law that protects people that legitimately and legally whistle blow should they feel they are persecuted. Did he even bother to try this path I ask you again. Survey says not bloody likely.

Is he getting financial support? Possibly. Is that PAYMENT? No.

Really then what do you call money paid directly to somebody who is spreading secrets? at what amount does it become a pay off?

By the way did he break the law? YES, Is he a fugitive regardless of his intentions? YES Two wrongs don't make a right and the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

And Bertie Bertie Bertie

Good for Ecuador! The U.S.A. throws tantrums like a spoiled kid when it doesn't get its own way.

So the USA should not seek the return of fugitives and criminals and not give money to people that harbor them? Yeah that's a great plan if you want to be a doormat.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

@bertie

The U.S.A. throws tantrums like a spoiled kid when it doesn't get its own way.

I KNOW YOU of all people didn't just say that! Seriously???

-6 ( +3 / -10 )

Good for them, i am glad Ecuador is showing some courage, more than many Americans and the American governnment who are under the sway of a foolish president who is the worst president by far we have ever had, even worse than Grant or Cleveland. I am so sorry to see the US invasions of privacy justified over and over by a callous and supercilious flippancy by Obama, who is showing more and more that he is unable and unfit for the office he was sadly elected to.Thank you Ecuador and thanks for your courage in supporting civil rights for real, not as as sham protection for an unethical minority who have taken control of US official policy.

-2 ( +4 / -5 )

If it wasn't for the fear of being tracked by the NSA, I would write a comment stating that it's about time someone mentioned the level of American hypocrisy because [...... deleted in the interests of national security]

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

CrisGerSan: Thank you Ecuador and thanks for your courage in supporting civil rights for real

This is getting stranger and stranger by the minute.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The only thing Snowden has done is to damage relations between countries. Very few people here in the USA were surprised by his "revelations", and only the naive would not think the NSA is doing these things to help prevent terrorist attacks. Some "whistle blower" he is! Sorry, but he is just a mere criminal, and not a hero by any means.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

This is getting stranger and stranger by the minute.

If it had been a member of some Chinese security agency releasing information about mass Chinese spying on this, that and the other, then you and most Americans would be praising him as an upholder of truth, human rights and so on. There's nothing strange in thanking nations or individuals for standing up against undemocratic activities and those who spy on their populations, whether the party at fault is America, China, or whoever.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

You liberals make me laugh, you think that Ecaudor thumbing their noses mean anything to the US. The bad thing is, the innocent poor people of Ecuador have to suffer because of this. The man didn't win anything. This is a huge loss for Ecaudor. For the US, it's like, "Oh, well" for them. That's going to bite them hard.

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

You liberals make me laugh, you think that Ecaudor thumbing their noses mean anything to the US. The bad thing is, the innocent poor people of Ecuador have to suffer because of this. The man didn't win anything. This is a huge loss for Ecaudor. For the US, it's like, "Oh, well" for them. That's going to bite them hard.

The Threat of a Good Example - Noam Chomsky http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Chomsky/ChomOdon_Example.html

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Mathew, Mathew, Mathew,

So the USA should not seek the return of fugitives and criminals and not give money to people that harbor them?

In what way is Snowden a criminal?

When was his court case? I must have missed it.

Oh, I forgot, it's not necessary to hold a trial to find someone guilty in the U.S.A. any more, is it?

-2 ( +6 / -7 )

US is the most irrestiable market on that earth. It has been an engine of the world growth.However they used their market power as political weapons for reward and punishment. It may work for some weak and corrupted governments. Not to Equador!

Equador may be small and little influence for world affair. Like Switzerland, it is very independent and not to be intimidated with trade weapons. Using trade for getting their way likes two years old boy crying, jumping and kicking for getting ice cream.

Equador will still survive without the trade concession with US.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Matthew, Matthew, Matthew,...here you are defending the actions of the unscrupulous government that has been exposed as the Leviathan Surveillance State, which cherry-picks which laws it will twist and ignore/enforce, which or whose human rights it will violate. Really?!?

No, he hasn't been paid, or do you have EVIDENCE to support your smear?

Which law has he broken? Do refer to the contrived charges twistedly extracted from Wilson's 1917 law written to suppress citizen opposition to US entry into The Great War? Trumped-up charges to base his passport revokation upon.

-1 ( +6 / -6 )

Berite & Jean:

In what way is Snowden a criminal?

When was his court case? I must have missed it.

Oh, I forgot, it's not necessary to hold a trial to find someone guilty in the U.S.A. any more, is it?

He freely admits to divulging classified information this is a crime no matter which way you want to twist it. By sharing it in anyway he has broken a law which he says he did. Which law has he broken?

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Matthew

Smear campaigns are as old as rocks.

http://m.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/26/nsa-revelations-response-to-smears

As I said, trumped-up charges twistedly extracted from Wilson 's WW I era "silence the dissenters" law. Pfffft!

-1 ( +5 / -5 )

BTW when anyone is given access to a U.S. government computer system of any level they sign a agreement not to divulge information punishable by law more stringent the higher the level of sensitivity of the system. On top of that there are clauses where certain freedoms you would have say on your home PC are suspended by you agreement to access these types of systems if in violation you are again breaking the law. This guys digital footprints are all over the systems he touch and by his own admission he is using the information he gathered in ways contrary to a statement he was required to acknowledge. This not only makes him a criminal but dishonest and showing no integrity as well.

Jean I wasn't aware that me posting my personal thoughts on a Japan related news sites was akin to a WWI smear campaign but thanks for letting me know where I stand.

Of course you using a character from Les Miserables and a Guy Fawkes mask used an "anoynmous" (see what I did there) hacker group whilst posting links to the recipient of the illegally obtained information from Snowden I should take your opinion above all else again I thank you.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

@bertie

In what way is Snowden a criminal?

You always crack me up when you ask Questions like that. All I can say is, update yourself to the news over the last few weeks and you find out.

When was his court case? I must have missed it.

That's because we didn't catch the scum yet.

Oh, I forgot, it's not necessary to hold a trial to find someone guilty in the U.S.A. any more, is it?

Once we get him, he'll stand trail and the judge will read all the litany of charges. There will be people like you and Madea Benjamin out there shouting he's a hero, most likely about 99.9% he'll be found guilty and hopefully NEVER see daylight again, except after he gets to feel it once a week (based on his behavior) being incarcerated for 23 hours a day. But he's innocent, of course, that's why he's running. Innocent people ALWAYS run. ROFL!!

-2 ( +3 / -6 )

bass4funk,

It does me good to know that my comments amuse you.

You didn't, however, answer my question.

So I'll ask it again.

"In what way is Snowden a criminal?"

There has been no justice action of any kind.

You never know, it might not have been Snowden that said this. He might have been framed. He could be guilty as hell. Without trial in an open court of law we don't know.

We used to operate on the principle of "innocent until proven guilty."

But this doesn't seem to be applied any more.

Reading your post, you have already decided that he is scum, found him guilty, and sentenced him to seeing daylight once a week (based on his "good" behaviour) and incarcerated for 23 hours a day.

No wonder he is not advertising his whereabouts, either they'll give him concrete boots, drone him or, if he's lucky, send him to Guantanamo for waterboarding, "advanced interrogation techniques," and, as you say, a peep at daylight once a week if he behaves himself.

-3 ( +5 / -7 )

@bertie

There has been no justice action of any kind.

He needs to be apprehended and when he does, he will be charged with Espionage, theft, breach and violation of his work contract, treason (usually death penalty case) and a whole lot more I assume.

You never know, it might not have been Snowden that said this. He might have been framed. He could be guilty as hell. Without trial in an open court of law we don't know.

And I could Bill Murray hoping for a Ghost Busters reunion, but I'm NOT! Look, once the punk is arrested, then HE WILL HAVE a fair trail! But we need to get him first, but Obama as weak as he is, think it's not a top priority, which astounds me, but then again, Carter did nothing either in the Iran situation, so typical liberal flower though process.

He is innocent until proven guilty, however, he sorta compromised that when he admitted to giving the intel to the Chinese, willingly, therefore, he is, by admission guilty in the eyes of the public, legally, he is innocent, but that is just in the realm of bureaucracy.

Reading your post, you have already decided that he is scum, found him guilty, and sentenced him to seeing daylight once a week (based on his "good" behaviour) and incarcerated for 23 hours a day.

Yup! That's me and ANY normal rational thinking person.

No wonder he is not advertising his whereabouts, either they'll give him concrete boots, drone him or, if he's lucky, send him to Guantanamo for waterboarding, "advanced interrogation techniques," and, as you say, a peep at daylight once a week if he behaves himself.

Personally, and honestly, I think Guantanamo is too good for Snowden.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

Really so it isn't him I see on TV flaunting his stuff Bertie? If the was the truth of it where is the real guy? I guess he forgot to show his passport SSN card drivers license etc.. therefore he is someone else. Maybe we are assuming too much..... But your complete nonsense about it not being him is totally hilarious.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Can a non military person be charged with treason?

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Yes

2 ( +5 / -3 )

" I wasn't aware that me posting my personal thoughts on a Japan related news sites was akin to a WWI smear campaign but thanks for letting me know where I stand."

No, calling a person "a douche bag", your words, IS a smear. My comment about Wilson's law speaks to the ludicrous charge against Snowden, not toward you. As for the legal issue regarding confidentiality, in case you are unaware, The Constitution is the Law of The Land, though the Federal Register is chock-full of unconstitutional laws, not to mention the myriad alphabet agencies that Create endless equally unconstitutional regulations. In summary, the system is broken and needs a clean reset to 1791.

" used an "anoynmous" (see what I did there) hacker group…"

Now, that's babbling and poor spelling.

To what hacker group are attempting to refer?

My username is a moniker, and I like the character in the story, as well as Guy Fawkes reference. Both dissenters. So what?

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Readers, please stop bickering. Focus your comments on the story and not at each other.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Bass and Serrano

This is a huge loss for Ecaudor / Their loss. Google the word integrity.

For once, I am with the WH on this. Good for them. I'm confused Bass, so does this mean you're NOT with Da Pres and his Neo-Stasi spy department?

@Matthew Simon

Really then why didn't he whistle blow legally? Well, Russ Tice did back in 2005. Congress didn't want to listen to him, which shows how much you know on the subject.

If you don't think he is getting any money from this you are as ignorant as you purport me to be. Prove it

@CrisGerSan Right on!!!

@Bass-again

HE WILL HAVE a fair trail!

Promises Promises. No guarantee. Are you a liberal?

I'm gonna post this again in case anyone missed it.

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2013/06/19/podcast-show-112-nsa-whistleblower-goes-on-record-reveals-new-information-names-culprits/

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Zichi, there's a clear definition of what is and isn't treason at the link below:

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?rd=1&word=Treason

By that clear definition, plainly, there has been no treason.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

You can see American products everywhere. They DO need the US, whether they say so or NOT

Great rationale as always!

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Treason in United States of America is defined:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

This Snowden dude could be convicted of treason because the is a valid argument to say he was aiding the enemy also because he freely admits to what he did.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Matthew, the part you quoted is incomplete.

" The Treason Clause applies only to disloyal acts committed during times of war. Acts of dis-loyalty during peacetime are not considered treasonous under the Constitution. Nor do acts of Espionage committed on behalf of an ally constitute treason. For example, JULIUS AND ETHEL ROSENBERG were convicted of espionage, in 1951, for helping the Soviet Union steal atomic secrets from the United States during World War II. The Rosenbergs were not tried for treason because the United States and the Soviet Union were allies during World War II.

Under Article III a person can levy war against the United States without the use of arms, weapons, or military equipment. Persons who play only a peripheral role in a conspiracy to levy war are still considered traitors under the Constitution if an armed rebellion against the United States results. After the U.S. Civil War, for example, all Confederate soldiers were vulnerable to charges of treason, regardless of their role in the secession or insurrection of the Southern states. No treason charges were filed against these soldiers, however, because President Andrew Johnson issued a universal Amnesty.

The crime of treason requires a traitorous intent. If a person unwittingly or unintentionally gives aid and comfort to an enemy of the United States during wartime, treason has not occurred. Similarly, a person who pursues a course of action that is intended to benefit the United States but mistakenly helps an enemy is not guilty of treason. Inadvertent disloyalty is never punishable as treason, no matter how much damage the United States suffers.

As in any other criminal trial in the United States, a defendant charged with treason is presumed innocent until proved guilty Beyond a Reasonable Doubt. Treason may be proved by a voluntary confession in open court or by evidence that the defendant committed an Overt Act of treason. Each overt act must be witnessed by at least two people, or a conviction for treason will not stand. By requiring this type of direct evidence, the Constitution minimizes the danger of convicting an innocent person and forestalls the possibility of partisan witch-hunts waged by a single adversary."

2 ( +5 / -3 )

This Snowden dude could be convicted of treason because the is a valid argument to say he was aiding the enemy also because he freely admits to what he did.

They've got him bang to rights, as the enemy seems to be ordinary people around the world and their freedom and rights. So Edward Snowden is 100% guilty of aiding the enemy.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Jean, I am not trying to bicker with your response, Let me add that to my knowledge this specific incident also involves theft of data from US government computers and the system itself can stand in for a witness in that occurrence. My background is in Information Security I have dealt with things similar to this but not on this scale obviously in the past. Just adding.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

@get

You can see American products everywhere. They DO need the US, whether they say so or NOT

Great rationale as always!

Go there and you'll see. And, yes, thanks for the support and agreeing with me.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

'The leftist government also offered the United States $23 million in “economic aid” for “human rights training”'

Classic! Good on Ecuador. More egg on the face of the US.

bass4funk: "Usually with a Democratic elected president, Yes, that's very true."

It's amusing how you constantly resort to bipartisan politics yet claim it's not YOU who is resorting to bipartisan politics!

"You never know, it might not have been Snowden that said this. He might have been framed. He could be guilty as hell. Without trial in an open court of law we don't know."

Yeah, we all know he would get a fair trial, alright! The people that deserve to go on trial are those that are currently, and those that have in the past, used the US constitution as toilet paper, peed on your rights and freedoms, and abused human rights -- ie. the government.

Ecuador won't hurt one bit from this -- in fact they have a lot of support. It's the US that is hurting in reputation and obviously will hurt from further information revealed, and if the government revoked his passport he can't very well leave for the US now, can he? He won't be caught unless the US government engages in yet MORE illegal activities against its citizens and other nations; he'll be given asylum in Ecuador within a short time, and given the hero's welcome he deserves. Americans or others who feel he is a traitor and support the abuses of the government should be ashamed of themselves and their hypocrisy, just as the US government is utterly embarrassed at present.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Matthew, I get your point. Snowden has done similar to what Ellsberg did with exposing The Pentagon Papers; he exposed massive government /institutional wrongdoing.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Of course, Ecuador is being two-faced with Snowden and Assange: trumpeting their support for freedom of speech and trying to close down the free media at home!

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Dear moderators, I guess your patience is wearing thin. I know the headline is about Ecuador and the trade deal, but this event will always be mostly about whether Snowdon did or didn't do the right thing. Know one hates anyone here, I hope, just a good ole exchange of ideas and emotions. Be patient with us.

We'll have those minds opened up soon. (sarc)

1 ( +2 / -1 )

It's pretty amusing to read the continued support for the actions of this individual, when anyone who is not a rabid anti-American can see the support stems not from any illusion of learning the truth it's just a gleeful swipe at the US. The voices if support for dictatorships like Putin's or the Chinese, or tinpot south American countries denotes this hypocrisy indelibly.

Every government acts out of self-interest, every government spies on everyone they can. The US just do it better than everyone else.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

So Snowden exposed possibly illegal surveillance acts by the US government. I salute his action. However, he begins to expose surveillance operations in other countries, but this is not patently illegal, and so he has passed from whistleblower to potentially being a traitor.

When accepting his position at the NSA, and applying for his security clearance, he was made fully aware of the consequences of his actions should he violate the terms of his clearance. I would have much more respect for him had he spilled the beans but had the balls to face the consequences. As they say, "don't do the crime if you can't do the time".

Ecuador can keep their paltry $23,000,000, that amount isn't enough money to arm the planes on a single US aircraft carrier. America can spend the $9,000,000,000 that Ecuador received in trade each year to another county which is more grateful for the business. Then El Presidente Correa can redistribute some of his own wealth to feed his people.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Yeah right! Madvert, I'm anti-American. I want my government to follow the supreme law of the land, the Constitution. You anti-Snowdon people come up with some pretty silly accusations. Please move to another country that doesn't care about the privacy of it's own citizens. The right to privacy is CLEARLY stipulated in the 4th Amendment.

The US just do it better than everyone else.

with the help of a nice printing machine. CTRL-P, CTRL-P, CTRL-P $16,889,461,700,900. and counting.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/#

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"You anti-Snowdon people come up with some pretty silly accusations."

Such as?

I keep saying to you people, it's a little late to get your knickers in a twist, US intelligence has been listening to just about everyone since the end of the second world war, Snowdon's "revelations" aren't news to most of us....

Unless you're going to "Bertie Wooster" me and give me some suppositions about the remaining intel he might have that could possibly tell us the real story about 9/11, well, once the Russians have debriefed him...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Madverts, how can you sit on your hands and type at the same time?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Once we get him, he'll stand trail and the judge will read all the litany of charges......... most likely about 99.9% he'll be found guilty and hopefully NEVER see daylight again, except after he gets to feel it once a week (based on his behavior) being incarcerated for 23 hours a day.

Perhaps, in an up-coming Hollywood movie. So, keep dreaming.

It's pretty amusing to read the continued support for the actions of this individual, when anyone who is not a rabid anti-American can see the support stems not from any illusion of learning the truth it's just a gleeful swipe at the US. The voices if support for dictatorships like Putin's or the Chinese, or tinpot south American countries denotes this hypocrisy indelibly.

Technically speaking, he is a traitor for you. For us, ordinary people from various parts of the Globe, he is a Hero. As many people have already pointed out, you wiped your asses by your Constitution as well as various international laws and agreements. You are tapping our phone calls, monitoring our e-mails without our approval or permitions. You are considered us your enemies. Nothing strange that we are supporting mr Snowden and his actions, not you and your hypocritical government. You aren't better than "Putin's dictatorship" or Red China. Even worse because you are spreading lie everyday. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Do you familiar with the proverb?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Methinks you shouldn't assume I'm American.

"You are tapping our phone calls, monitoring our e-mails without our approval or permitions."

I repeat, this isn't news. It's been going on much longer than I've been alive.

Next.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Matthew Simon,

he (Snowden) was aiding the enemy

So, exactly WHO is the enemy?

The American people?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I repeat, this isn't news. It's been going on much longer than I've been alive.

True. During Cold War times the Echelon was created to intercept microwave transmissions from Soviet and Chinese satellites as well as Soviet ground radio relay microwave transmissions. Ordinary people did not care much about war games between superpowers. But nowadays Americans began to use a special software and technical devices to monitor e-mails and tap phone calls of civilian users around the World. That guy, mr Snowden stole a highly classified info that costs USD multibillion, right? A detailed depiction of a system of Global Espionage, structure, agents, technical devices and special software. That's why American leadership was so infuriated.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

yabits: "You just have to love small nations that won't bend to U.S. blackmail"

Your hero Obama is a blackmailer? Nah...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

For us, ordinary people from various parts of the Globe, he is a Hero

He was certainly confronted with activity he considered to be illegal. Is that what he thought he signed up for? I see a lot of parallels between Snowden and the case of Mordechai Vananu, the nuclear technician who thought he was helping develop nuclear power for Israel, but ended up exposing Israel's nuclear weapons program to the world.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Oh Yea! from the many comments it seems to be A SAD DAY for Americans right to know, for Americans have been successfully brain washed ( we are no longer different) just as the governments of other countries have been successful in conditioning their people,now in the land of the free, people know they are not free but can't be bothered. People now believe in a greater outside enemy and so sacrifice their liberties and freedom to fight for the cause. It's the simple TRUTH that governments fight for control of the people. The most important thing is for the government to control it's people if it fails at this that government will fail as we have seen. If someone tries to liberate those captives that person would simply be the enemy of the government as seen.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

"Oh Yea! from the many comments it seems to be A SAD DAY for Americans right to know, for Americans have been successfully brain washed"

Oh Yea! They have been brainwashed into thinking Snowden is some kind of hero, lol.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Globis007,

governments fight for control of the people

True, but then, who are THEIR masters?

Who pulls THEIR strings?

I wonder if Snowden knows something about this.

But I'm sure someone will try to gloss over it with the tired old "conspiracy theory" line.

Yawn.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The Justice Department is investigating the former second highest ranking officer in the U.S. military for leaking classified information about a U.S. cyber attack on Iran's nuclear program. The same officer, according to reports, both conceived and ran the top secret operation from 2007 to 2011. Retired Marine General James "Hoss" Cartwright, the former vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, reportedly received a letter from the Justice Department informing him that he's under investigation for leaking the information about the virus, called Stuxnet, which disabled 1,000 centrifuges used for enriching uranium by Iran's nuclear facilities in 2010.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

[Yawn.}

The US will get Snowden. It may take time, but he will be gotten. For obvious reasons: whatever the justification may be, when you do what Snowden did, you are going down.

Everyone knows this.

That is why China and Russia passed the Hot Potato.

And that is why Equador, or whoever, will bend to the US in due time.

It may take some time, b/c no govt, be it large and bellicose like China, or puny and proud like Equador, wants to look like it rolls over on the drop of a dime.

But, be assured, it will roll over.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

As I said, Snowden is both traitor to the US and did whistle blow on something that needed to be exposed. He could have done it the right way but chose not to. The information Snowden exposed should have only been passed along to the American people, not the rest of the world. "And the feathers shall be plucked from the eagle...." If anyone remembers where its from, then the rest of the world will weep for their arrogance and stupidity for egging this on when the time comes and the less savory nations gain power.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Bertie Wooster

So, exactly WHO is the enemy?

JeanValJean

By that clear definition, plainly, there has been no treason.

Based on the information revealed by Snowden, Al Qaeda has already changed its tactics and altered its online message and instructions to its cells and recruits on what to do differently to avoid being detected by the NSA, CIA etc. If that's not aiding the enemy I don't know what it is. Oh but silly me, it's not really a problem because as you so often point out, Al Qaeda doesn't actually exist...

0 ( +1 / -1 )

HonestDictator,

Or, it might turn out that, because of the actions of people like Snowden and a few more people brave enough to throw light on dark and dirty dealings by people in high places that we recover some of the freedom and democracy that we once had.

The constitution of the U.S.A. is a very well thought out document, designed to guard against the corruption and greed of the British government in the mid to late 1700's.

But now, it's being torn to pieces by a new breed of corrupt and greedy businessmen and politicians.

The consequences of "going with the flow" with the current US regime are too horrible to contemplate.

A totalitarian government with secret police spying on its citizens, taking away those it sees as dissenters to confinement camps, restriction on any form of freedom or movement or killing those it says are criminals with drones or "accidents," and so on. Already we have seen assassination without trial, not just condoned but carried out at the order of the current president.

I wonder how long we will be able to say these things on the internet if the restriction on free speech continues to tighten up.

Or whether we will even have an internet.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

But, be assured, it will roll over.

yes sir mr. president

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Well, looks like Snowden is staying in Russia. No need for the US to be so upset with Ecuador! Maybe the US can now declare an economic war on Russia. Now they can pick on someone their same size or at least not as small as Ecuador!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Let me add that to my knowledge this specific incident also involves theft of data from US government computers

Well, sounds like all the data on those US government computers originally belongs to you, me, our sisters and brothers and all the people who got their privacy invaded by the "NSA the real thief in that story".

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Of course, Ecuador is being two-faced with Snowden and Assange: trumpeting their support for freedom of speech and trying to close down the free media at home!

Ecuador can use Assange and Snowden as puppets to shield themselves from criticism regarding their own human rights record. And with that circus going on they'll use the opportunity to grab more from their own people, all while many in the West cheer them on. I'm guessing there are some human rights groups in Ecuador who are vomiting right about now. Two people being touted as "champions of freedom" will be in their country and will be used against them.

I've said it before....you can support Snowden without ignoring what's going on in the countries who are harboring him. You have no reason at all to give them a free pass. For some this is strictly a single-issue item of the US getting screwed and they don't care about the collateral damage.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I'm sure the people of Ecuador are going to get trampled by their version of Leviathan as much as the US citizens are, or more. At this point the issue of where Snowdon lives the rest of his life is a distraction from the question of what is Obama doing to stop the unconstitutional snooping in the USA?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Breaking news out of Russia! Snowdon has revealed that the FOX TV show "24" was secretly produced by the NSA and Kiefer Sutherland is an NSA operative.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Bertie nobody is that gullible to believe that the NSA issue shouldn't be considered as an easy way for the wrong people in the government to abuse. But one also shouldn't be so gullible as to believe that when used in confines of the law and for the best interest of the American public it doesn't do good. How do you think American citizens who are actually doing criminal acts get caught? Should their right to privacy while infringing on other US citizens rights or causing harm to other US citizens by their criminal acts be upheld?

The big issue with the NSA is whether or not they're invading the privacy of the right people who are doing wrong with the interest to protect the US people and not the US government from harm, or if they're invading the privacy of average Joe/Jane and their political views, every day actions.. The US government is for the people by the people, not for the government by the government. Americans have the ability to scrutinize and hold our government accountable as well as take action should the majority believe something ran afoul of our interests as citizens. The US military, law enforcement, and even those in government positions are all individual people that may or may not agree with this situation and what should be done about it.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Good points HonestDictator. I posted a link to a podcast of an NSA whistle blower many posts up. I recommend you give it a listen. You will hear how the NSA is storing every bit of information which can be thrown back in your face 2, 4, 6, 10, 20 years later. Either to blackmail you or get u to compromise yourself. Who knows how many times it's been used already. I don't care about myself, but I do worry about my niece. This is the power that they have now and you've heard that power corrupts.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@smith

It's amusing how you constantly resort to bipartisan politics yet claim it's not YOU who is resorting to bipartisan politics!

Nope, not at all, however, I am calling on liberals, who are hopelessly in love with a president that is weak, has NO backbone and NEVER, EVER wants to take responsibility for anything. The only thing he cares about is his own narcissism. It is HE that ALWAYS makes every issue a partisan issue. I'm just calling him and other love struck liberals that all that hopey changy thing you guys asked for, well you most certainly got it. Cheers!

Yeah, we all know he would get a fair trial, alright! The people that deserve to go on trial are those that are currently, and those that have in the past, used the US constitution as toilet paper, peed on your rights and freedoms, and abused human rights -- ie. the government.

What do you know about the constitution?? Give me a break!

Ecuador won't hurt one bit from this -- in fact they have a lot of support.

Oh, no? Hmmmm....

An OPEC nation of 15 million people, Ecuador exported $5.4 billion worth of oil, $166 million of cut flowers, $122 million of fruits and vegetables and $80 million of tuna to the United States under the Andean trade program in 2012.

Termination of the benefits could hurt the cut flower industry, which has blossomed under the program and employs more than 100,000 workers, many of them women. And that's just the flower business.

Critics of Correa say Ecuador's embrace of Assange - and now possibly Snowden - is hypocritical given what they say is his authoritarian style and suppression of media at home.

Supporters of Correa say he has simply taken on media and business elites who were trying to erode what the president calls his "Citizens' Revolution."

Ok, NOW back to reality, Smith. YES, it will hurt A LOT!

It's the US that is hurting in reputation and obviously will hurt from further information revealed,

Information that Snowden stolen.

and if the government revoked his passport he can't very well leave for the US now, can he?

What in blazes are you babbling about, he left China and is in Russia and could leave to Ecuador WITHOUT A PASSPORT, therefore, he doesn't need one, speaking of which, why does anyone of us need a passport? It's not like nowadays they are worth anything as with Snowden's case. He can travel anywhere without it.

He won't be caught unless the US government engages in yet MORE illegal activities against its citizens and other nations; he'll be given asylum in Ecuador within a short time, and given the hero's welcome he deserves.

Liberal loons will try to give him a welcome home party, but that probably won't get off the ground. But as a present, they'll probably send a nice pair of shackles that should fit him nicely.

Americans or others who feel he is a traitor and support the abuses of the government should be ashamed of themselves and their hypocrisy, just as the US government is utterly embarrassed at present.

I think Americans that support a weasel like Snowden should be deeply ashamed of themselves. That essentially means, they are against the rule of law. Do whatever you want, whenever you want. Don't judge am. I can do whatever I want.

@bertie

he (Snowden) was aiding the enemy

So, exactly WHO is the enemy?

Russia and China. There, I fixed it for you.

But I'm sure someone will try to gloss over it with the tired old "conspiracy theory" line.

You are living in a country that practically invented glossing

The constitution of the U.S.A. is a very well thought out document, designed to guard against the corruption and greed of the British government in the mid to late 1700's.

Even then, our forefathers knew that the liberalism would hurt our nation.

But now, it's being torn to pieces by a new breed of corrupt and greedy businessmen and politicians.

That is what hope and change got us.

The consequences of "going with the flow" with the current US regime are too horrible to contemplate.

Now, on that we can finally agree!

A totalitarian government with secret police spying on its citizens, taking away those it sees as dissenters to confinement camps, restriction on any form of freedom or movement or killing those it says are criminals with drones or "accidents," and so on. Already we have seen assassination without trial, not just condoned but carried out at the order of the current president.

You were doing really well up until the drone part.

I wonder how long we will be able to say these things on the internet if the restriction on free speech continues to tighten up.

In most liberal cases, NOT soon enough.

Or whether we will even have an internet.

That might not be a bad thing, too much crap that people believe anyway.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

If the Ecuadorian government is willing to stand up for civil rights against a country such as the U.S., I find it hard to believe that they just don't care about their own citizens.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

C'mon Bass,.......you DO seem quick ta label someone

So Calling a spade, a Spade is labeling someone?

If the Ecuadorian government is willing to stand up for civil rights against a country such as the U.S., I find it hard to believe that they just don't care about their own citizens.

http://www.hrw.org/world-report/2013/country-chapters/ecuador

Huh, had no idea Ecuador is a beacon of human and civil rights.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@bass4punk

" love struck liberals"

That could be a top ten hit!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

bass4funk, the point is Ecuador doesn't give a damm about the human rights for their citizens and why should they care about Snowden?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Good for Ecuador the mouse that roared! The more countries the USA threatens the more they look like a global thug. Perhaps another country will replace the USA as a trade partner.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Got any proof sfjp330?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

the point is Ecuador doesn't give a damm about the human rights for their citizens and why should they care about Snowden?

Actually, you are right on that point. At least in the sense, they might not care about the US, but they do care about what he has in his possession.

@yuri

Good for Ecuador the mouse that roared! The more countries the USA threatens the more they look like a global thug. Perhaps another country will replace the USA as a trade partner.

But Yuri, you seem to be enjoying our money though. :-) So when are you thinking about the US instead of siphoning off money we could give to people that really need and appreciate being in the US.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Heh, even Ecuador won't take crap from President Obama.

Classic.

RR

1 ( +3 / -2 )

bass4funk actually it is money I brought with me from Japan. It is my money and not his money. You assume too much about me. Everything in the USA is so cheap!

Back on subject I like seeing a small country standing up to a big thug. Everything the USA has done is driving a wedge between themselves and the rest of the world. Just look at tiny Ecuador being threatened nd now slandered. Makes you wonder what the Americans will do if Snowden gets to Ecuador?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@RR

Why should they? Obama has become the laughing stock of America. Personally, I'd snub him myself if I were a world leader. What's there to be afraid of. When the president of the US thinks climate change is more important than classified secretive information, you know you have a very serious problem.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

the mouse that roared!

funny

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Yuri: Just look at tiny Ecuador being threatened nd now slander

More made up stuff. You're on a roll, don't stop.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Without a doubt, US is the biggest human rights abuser in the world...

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Without a doubt, US is the biggest human rights abuser in the world...

I think you need to re-read history, you're waaaaay off there.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

jojon922Jul. 01, 2013 - 01:14AM JST Without a doubt, US is the biggest human rights abuser in the world...

Do you have any sense of what real oppression looks like? Maybe you should move to Ecuador and you can be a first hand experience of being a freedom fighter there. Try protesting the goverment there. After you do that, come back and tell us how bad U.S. is and that U.S. is the biggest human rights abuser. It might wake you up to the reality of how other countries operate.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Maybe the bugging of its London might have been a factor?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

"jojon922Jul. 01, 2013 - 01:14AM JST

Without a doubt, US is the biggest human rights abuser in the world..."

Without a doubt you do not have a clue what human rights abuse is.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

bass4funkJun. 28, 2013 - 11:27AM JST

The U.S. clearly does not have juice like it used to have.

Usually with a Democratic elected president, Yes, that's very true.

Better to have a Commander who is willing to evaluate issues correctly before going into war. .

We are pulling our troops out of two wars that you and other Republicans took us there for no reasons,.bass4funk. You have no say as you have never gone to any wars.. It must be very nice to have a cup of coffee from the Starbucks and criticize others while others are still in the hell. We ARE all in this together, buss4funk.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Well, sorry, Ecuador. Looks like you'll have to find someone else to buy your stupid roses.

On the bright side, more sales for American farmers!

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

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