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Democrat Warren takes economic message to Iowa in kickoff to 2020 race

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By John Whitesides

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She won’t make it to the end of the year. There will be about 20 candidates with the same message. how does she expect to stand out ?

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

She won’t make it to the end of the year. There will be about 20 candidates with the same message. how does she expect to stand out ?

Someone's obsessed with Warren.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

What a joke.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Oh the petty things that confront small minds. All the best to all the candidates who come to the floor. Let's focus and discuss your ideas, solutions and the problems you see going forward and may those ideas carry you to the fore. I look forward to an adult election cycle with the knowledge that the evil spirited children will continue to play their grumpy childish games. I will be happy to vote for any candidate that acts like an adult and respects the intelligence of the American voter.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Yes, I am obsessed with her. I want her to do well but she is going to fail if she doesn't have a message or even a campaign theme. She could campaign on ending the bottle redemption laws, making BIG pot pay it's fair share, standardizing environmental laws or forcing anyone who sends money to provide identification and register with homeland security.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

My money is on Beto

Why?

All the women running on the Democrat ticket are, or will be forced to run as feminists which will not appeal to men at all

Bernie and Biden are too old.

O'Rouke has the age advantage and the fact he comes from Texas probably does him favours in the partisan divide.

Logical choice - Mr O'Rourke.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

It is so frustrating watch her. It reminds me of Bill Clinton. Warren could easily brush off the indian blood mess by say that her grandmother told her something and so wanted to believe it so much because she loved her grandmother. Clinton could have taken care of the Monica mess by admitting that some things are hard to say no to. He could have added he loved Hillary , but things in the bedroom were a little slow. Warren has a hard time coming across as human and this is the perfect chance to make some progress in that area, but she take a corporate line and will admit nor deny anything.

Beto has a BIG disadvantage in that he wants to be like Obama, but he isn't Obama. He isn't a Kennedy either. he needs his own identity.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

She could campaign on ending the bottle redemption laws,

Yes, those effective bottle redemption laws are soool arduous.

> making BIG pot pay it's fair share, 

It already does.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

She could win. She’s no Hillary Clinton so that’s a plus. Her campaign will go after the wealth corruption and the well connected, something HC couldn’t say with a straight face and everyone new it. Let’s wait and see who her big donors are. At least she’ll bring some important issues up.

I imagine a Warren/Sanders ticket or viceversa. Biden is a lost cause and that Orteze lady is a slam dunk for a lose.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

"She could win."

She has a 1/1024 chance to win after that epic DNA test failure and the real Indians slammed her.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

She needs to be partnered with a black or Mexican transgender.

The bottle redemption taxes are a nuisance tax and those are getting out of control. BIG pot doesn't pay enough taxes. They should pay something like the tobacco settlement stretched over 50 years. They don't need a profit for at least that long.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

She could win. She’s no Hillary Clinton so that’s a plus. Her campaign will go after the wealth corruption and the well connected, something HC couldn’t say with a straight face and everyone new it. Let’s wait and see who her big donors are. At least she’ll bring some important issues up.

She could win? She is the most fake politician out there, robotic, a gaffe machine in her own right, not to mention she already tainted herself about lying about her ethnicity. I don’t think she could ever win even if she tried.

I imagine a Warren/Sanders ticket or viceversa. Biden is a lost cause and that Orteze lady is a slam dunk for a lose.

Oh, definitely.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

She could win? 

Speculation, not support.

She is the most fake politician out there,

And look how well Hillary did?

Don't underestimat the snowbubble.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

She has a 1/1024 chance to win after that epic DNA test failure and the real Indians slammed her.

Who exactly are the "real Indians"? You can claim to be descended or partly descended from an ethnic group without (currently living) members of that group acting as gatekeepers, or as the true arbiters of validity. What they think doesn't actually have any bearing on your ancestry. Nor should it be assumed that they have a single opinion.

Trump challenged Warren to do a DNA test, and as would be expected, when he was taken up on the challenge, interpreted the results to his own convenience.

That's all he really does: issue challenge, misinterpret results, reject results, or add new conditions to challenge. At some point, the opponent has to give up.

This is how he was able to string the Obama birth "controversy" out for years. No other candidate had found it necessary to release their birth certificate to the public, but Obama did, and then a more detailed version. It was after that that Trump said "I have people that have been studying it and they cannot believe what they're finding" and "At a certain point in time I'll be revealing some interesting things." A promise never delivered on. He said that Obama's birth in the United States was "one of the greatest cons in the history of politics and beyond". When Obama's American birth had been proved beyond any doubt, Trump was still denying it.

Warren didn't fail, she took a DNA test that yielded some information about her ancestry; it's not something you pass or fail. And as for what the test showed, a more measured assessment than either you or Trump are capable of is here:

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/10/the-facts-on-elizabeth-warrens-dna-test/

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She could win? She is the most fake politician out there, robotic, a gaffe machine in her own right, not to mention she already tainted herself about lying about her ethnicity. I don’t think she could ever win even if she tried.

Yes, but you slammed Trump as the leader of a “lunatic fringe” and then later compared him to Einstein.

Plenty of time to ‘evolve’ if the numbers start to look right, Bass.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Senator Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass) worked for years to build relationships with black leaders, an effort that included becoming one of the first white politicians to endorse the Black Lives Matter movement. But when she got in trouble recently for releasing a DNA test that struck many as racially insensitive, few black leaders rushed to her defence.

The episode suggests a lack of depth in the alliances she has forged among non-white activists and influencers, a group she must lean on to vouch for her when she goes ahead with her presidential bid.

She does not have the juice. Her bid will be over soon. Not going to happen.

I have to agree with @Matt Hartwell. Mr O'Rourke. would be my guy if I were a Democrat.

I am not Democrat for the record.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Trump challenged Warren to do a DNA test, and as would be expected, when he was taken up on the challenge, interpreted the results to his own convenience.

What a bunch of hogwash, Warren lies, pure and simple and she got caught, she’s no more Native American then Trump is Japanese. This woman is a joke.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/10/16/cherokee-nation-slams-warren-dna-results/1656463002/

"A DNA test is useless to determine tribal citizenship," Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin Jr. said in a statement. "Current DNA tests do not even distinguish whether a person’s ancestors were indigenous to North or South America."

Indeed, the genetic analysis report released by Warren concedes that because there are not samples available from many North American groups, the senator's DNA was compared against samples from Mexico, Peru and Colombia. Most Native American groups in the U.S. have declined to participate in recent genetic studies, the report said.

In addition to the lack of specificity and the fact that DNA tests do not meet the existing legal standards set by the tribal nations to determine citizenship, Hoskin Jr. said that using "a DNA test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation, even vaguely, is inappropriate and wrong."

"It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, whose ancestors are well documented and whose heritage is proven," he said. "Senator Warren is undermining tribal interests with her continued claims of tribal heritage." 

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Plenty of time to ‘evolve’ if the numbers start to look right, Bass.

Not with her numbers, they’ll be extinct before you know it.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

What a bunch of hogwash, Warren lies, pure and simple and she got caught, she’s no more Native American then Trump is Japanese. This woman is a joke.

To be fair, you forgave and continue to forgive Trump for a whirlwind of lies and trash conspiracy theories.

Remember you are a non-partisan and look at this objectively.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

To be fair, you forgave and continue to forgive Trump for a whirlwind of lies and trash conspiracy theories. 

I’d be more forgiving of Democrats lies and trash talking and conspiracies if they weren’t so maliciously vindictive and filled with power lust.

Remember you are a non-partisan and look at this objectively.

Exactly.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

What a bunch of hogwash, Warren lies, pure and simple and she got caught, she’s no more Native American then Trump is Japanese.

Ah, the what a bunch of hogwash argument. Very convincing.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I’d be more forgiving of Democrats lies and trash talking and conspiracies

It’s just that with Trump, you seem to forgive all of it.

I agree that Warren’s claim to Native American ancestry was dishonest and dodgy, but it isn’t in the same league as the ‘malicious’ and ‘vindictive’ filth of birtherism which stunk of racism.

I’m still shocked at how easily you forgave Trump’s birtherism but are repulsed by Warren’s dodgy claims.

It doesn’t seem non-partisan. It seems like selective outrage.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

It’s just that with Trump, you seem to forgive all of it. 

Depends.

I agree that Warren’s claim to Native American ancestry was dishonest and dodgy, but it isn’t in the same league as the ‘malicious’ and ‘vindictive’ filth of birtherism which stunk of racism. 

No, it’s worse actually.

I’m still shocked at how easily you forgave Trump’s birtherism but are repulsed by Warren’s dodgy claims.

It doesn’t seem non-partisan. It seems like selective outrage.

We are not talking about Obama and it has nothing to do with being a partisan or not. The Birther thing was wrong, but claiming you are racially something that you are not is outrageous, deceptive, racist and culturally insensitive.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

She has to put that indian topic to bed. Her campaign has already been tagged with 1/2020th.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@bass4funk

Claiming you are racially something that you are not is outrageous, deceptive, racist and culturally insensitive

You have no proof that she claims to be something she isn't. You certainly haven't shown that she lacks Native American ancestry.

By making the point that her "DNA was compared against samples from Mexico, Peru and Colombia" you are attempting to say that the analysis does not provide evidence of such ancestry, while simultaneously saying that it shows she is not Native American enough. You can't use the same data input in two opposing directions.

Since you've gone down the route of what's "outrageous, racist, and culturally insensitive" (I had no idea you were concerned about such things, especially after your frequent gloating that making Trump president would be a blow against political correctness), what do you have to say about Trump's challenge, which I'll quote below, and about him resorting to the "Pocahontas" taunt.

You've now argued that culturally insensitivity is wrong; that racism is wrong; that DNA testing to establish Native American ancestry is wrong. Have you ever bothered to wonder why the President so energetically involved himself in all these things if they're so wrong and outrageous? You back him up no matter what filth spews out of his mouth.

Trump: "I will give you a million dollars to your favorite charity, paid for by Trump, if you take the test and it shows you're an Indian"

2 ( +2 / -0 )

You have no proof that she claims to be something she isn't. You certainly haven't shown that she lacks Native American ancestry.

No, we have proof.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/15/17978144/elizabeth-warren-dna-test-native-american-genetics-ancestry-culture-identity-politics

https://mobile.twitter.com/CherokeeNation/status/1051965527214776321?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1051965527214776321&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2F2018%2F10%2F16%2Fcherokee-nation-condemns-elizabeth-warrens-inappropriate-wrong%2F

Tallbear noted that it’s popular for white people to claim Native American ancestry, but “tribe” is a federally recognized status, and being Cherokee is about more than DNA analysis. And as DNA tests have become more and more widespread, people are showing up at tribal-enrollment offices with their results. “That worries us in a land where we already feel there’s very little understanding about the history of our tribes, our relationships with colonial powers, and the conditions of our lives now,” she said. 

In a statement provided today, Tallbear pointed out that Warren shouldn’t continue to defend her ancestry claims despite refusing to meet with Cherokee Nation members that challenge her. “This shows that she focuses on and actually privileges DNA company definitions in this debate, which are ultimately settler-colonial definitions of who is indigenous,” Tallbear writes. “She and much of the US American public privilege the voices of (mostly white) genome scientists and implicitly cede to them the power to define indigenous identity.” Similarly, the Cherokee Nation said in a statement that “Senator Warren is undermining tribal interests with her continued claims of tribal heritage.”

As I have stated before, the woman is a fraud racist and a phony and she’ll never, ever be President, she should be greatly ashamed of herself.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

As I have stated before, the woman is a fraud racist and a phony and she’ll never, ever be President, she should be greatly ashamed of herself.

She can't be racist because she has minorities on her staff. That's the "logic" you use to defend Trump's racism, so it must work for others as well. ROFL! Smh. Kudos! Lol.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I had no idea you were concerned about such things, especially after your frequent gloating that making Trump president would be a blow against political correctness), what do you have to say about Trump's challenge, which I'll quote below, and about him resorting to the "Pocahontas" taunt. 

The “main reason” I was in the beginning against Trump was not because I didn’t like his ideas, but because I thought he couldn’t win against Hillary. Well, I was deeply wrong and learned the error of my ways.

You've now argued that culturally insensitivity is wrong; that racism is wrong; that DNA testing to establish Native American ancestry is wrong. Have you ever bothered to wonder why the President so energetically involved himself in all these things if they're so wrong and outrageous? You back him up no matter what filth spews out of his mouth.

No, I’m saying Trump is right to call her out, it’s her own fault for being and posing as a charlatan and a person trying to ride off the backs of an indigenous Tribe.

Trump: "I will give you a million dollars to your favorite charity, paid for by Trump, if you take the test and it shows you're an Indian"

And she wasn’t.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

She can't be racist because she has minorities on her staff. That's the "logic" you use to defend Trump's racism, so it must work for others as well. ROFL! Smh. Kudos! Lol.

But as you said, it doesn’t mean anything, as you can apply that equally to both sides, so there goes that argument.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

To democrats the two party system has one party too many.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

No, we have proof.

It proves that she does have Native American ancestry. You could read the explanation at the link I posted earlier for a more in-depth view of what the results show. What they definitely don't show is that she doesn't have Native American ancestry; in other words, you absolutely don't have proof if you are using the results released by Warren as your evidence.

No, I’m saying Trump is right to call her out

You said that "claiming you are racially something that you are not is outrageous, deceptive, racist and culturally insensitive". You haven't proved it. Warren took the test and published the results as a response to a challenge issued by Trump. You either have a problem with the DNA testing, or you don't. You consider it either culturally insensitive and/or racist, or you don't. You can say it's perfectly appropriate for Trump to "call her out" in this way, but inappropriate for her to take the test that he said she should take.

That moral inconsistency is additional to you failing to understand what the results show. You've confused the idea of someone not meeting your arbitrary standard of ancestry with them not having such ancestry. They're rather different things. But your confusion is not surprising considering your evidential standard: you tried to show that she has basically no Native American ancestry based on her level of positive matching against against indigenous samples from Mexico, Peru and Colombia, while simultaneously arguing that those samples are invalid for not being from indigenous North American groups. It's obviously intellectually unsound to exploit the exact same data that you reject.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

It proves that she does have Native American ancestry.

I don’t think you get it.

“She and much of the US American public privilege the voices of (mostly white) genome scientists and implicitly cede to them the power to define indigenous identity.” Similarly, the Cherokee Nation said in a statement that “Senator Warren is undermining tribal interests with her continued claims of tribal heritage.”

The Cherokee flat out reject Warren and her claims, it has nothing to do with Republicans or Trump or conservatives, it has everything to do with her and her lies. THEY are the ones (Cherokee Nation) that vehementlay reject her claims, if that’s the case, who are we to argue that? Now the Chrokee nation is lying??

Again, Warren for her sake should stop embarrassing herself. The jig is up, lights out, she should stay in Washington and to continue to make a mockery out of her party, as if you couldn’t do worse.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The “main reason” I was in the beginning against Trump was not because I didn’t like his ideas

So why did you label him the leader of a ‘lunatic fringe’ if you thought his ideas were good?

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Dems these days always have to be “right” even by some technicality. People kind of tired of that. Washington Post just has an opinion piece about how calling the President the word mother()er isn’t really that bad. Yet they aren’t even allowed to spell out the word and neither am I.

Always gotta be right. Warren should have just apologized and let it go and moved on. But like m-fer the left can’t let Trump be right on anything, ever,

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Preview in 1 month: we didn’t fund a wall, that’s an “enhanced security barrier”, nothing like a wall whatsoever. Politico will rate it “half true” and everyone will move on.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

So why did you label him the leader of a ‘lunatic fringe’ if you thought his ideas were good?

One logical answer would be that lunatics have better ideas. Perhaps that's what he meant.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Hoping both Dems and Republicans can find some decent candidates.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

So why did you label him the leader of a ‘lunatic fringe’ if you thought his ideas were good?

When I was very, very young and dumb I thought at one point Hillary was a decent First Lady and then I evolved.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Always gotta be right. Warren should have just apologized and let it go and moved on. 

For what?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

For what?

-Lying

"It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, whose ancestors are well documented and whose heritage is proven," he said. "Senator Warren is undermining tribal interests with her continued claims of tribal heritage." 

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

-Lying

She didn't lie. In the words of the person who conducted the analysis "the results strongly support the existence of an unadmixed Native American ancestor". That happens to line up with Warren's own account, based on family history.

It's the exact opposite of what you're saying, that the DNA test showed she does not have Native American ancestry.

It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens

If you're so concerned about DNA tests being "made a mockery of" then what in Christ's name do you imagine a President is doing when he urges a political opponent to take a DNA test in the hope that he can score some points, with a price of $1 million attached to the result? Let alone the Pocahontas taunts.

This is why I ask what she has to apologize for. No one has proved she lied, or used minority status to advantage, or doesn't have the ancestry she claims. It really isn't for others - including members of the Cherokee nation - to deny someone's ancestry unless they have convincing proof that it's fake. And they don't; they don't in fact have any evidence at all, and as the Cherokee who criticized Warren don't endorse DNA findings in the first place, they're not in a position to use the results one way or the other.

This line you're pushing, of crapping on someone's ancestry, comes from the same reservoir of filth that brought us the Obama birther movement, and the talk of "real Americans" that started with Sarah Palin and has been aired so frequently since - including by you.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

She didn't lie.

She didn’t tell the truth either, you don’t need to convince me, I already know she’s a piece of work, you need to convince the Cherokee nation and if you can do that, Kudos!

In the words of the person who conducted the analysis "the results strongly support the existence of an unadmixed Native American ancestor". That happens to line up with Warren's own account, based on family history. 

Not according to the Cherokee nation and they would know more than you and I. I Trump claimed he was Black and would say he has a teeny tiny drop of maybe 10 generations ago it doesn’t count, not even enough to claim he’s African American.

It's the exact opposite of what you're saying, that the DNA test showed she does not have Native American ancestry

Again, you don’t need to convince me, try convincing the Cherokee and if you can do that, you da man.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

A-N-Y-O-N-E would be better than Trump! He does not know what the executive branch of the US government is for!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Again, you don’t need to convince me, try convincing the Cherokee

I'm not attempting to convince you, just putting arguments, for anyone who reads here, that shows why you're incorrect.

I also don't need to convince "the Cherokee". It's not in their power or authority to decide who has Cherokee ancestry and who doesn't, and as the Cherokee nation officially rejects the use of DNA analysis (which happens to be the most accurate and scientifically sound way of assessing this), they do not have the data to make an informed decision on that issue either.

All they have is the power to decide who can and cannot be admitted to the Cherokee Nation, and as Warren is neither claiming membership nor asking to be admitted, that's of no relevance.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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