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Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

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Individuals would be required to purchase coverage or pay a fine,

or face imprisonment if they do not comply with this fascist, thuggish, unconstitutional intrusion into the lives of American citizens.

Stone: "Do you think it’s fair to send people to jail who don’t buy health insurance?

Pelosi: "The legislation is very fair in this respect."

The modern Democrat Party is a gang of tyrants.

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In a show of unity, Senate Democrats sealed a 60-vote majority needed to advance health care legislation Saturday ahead of an evening showdown with Republicans eager to doom the bill and inflict a punishing defeat on President Barack Obama.

This has always been about the political fortunes of the Democrat party and has ever been about health care per se. These 60 votes will pretty much guarantee that there will be socialized medicine in the U.S. The reason is that Sen. Reid will use reconciliation when the final vote comes requiring only 50 votes. A vote to continue debate is a vote for socialized medicine. This vote is great for the Democrats but terrible for the nation. Prepare to see people going to jail for not wanting to give up their freedom to the Federal government.

The Democrats march in lock step to micro-manage the lives of every American and bankrupt the nation. Why is it that the Dems were so worried about the deficit before one of their own because President and now they could care less. Whenever you have a left wing opinion writer like David Broder admitting that the Senate and House bills are budget busters it is very telling.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/20/AR2009112002618.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

I have to give President Obama credit for forcing nationalized health care on the American people who obviously do not want it. They are perfectly willing to sacrifice some of their members in the next election to turn America into a European style welfare state.

Do any American Liberals actually care about the future of their own country? The nation cannot afford more government obligations when it already is not able to meet it's current future obligations for Social Security and other social programs. What good will all of these government programs be when their is no money to pay for them. What will happen to the prospects of freedom worldwide when the US is so hamstring by it's own financial and enconomic problems that it cannot oppose tyrannical forces abroad?

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Great more taxes on the middle class (though we wont call them that well say there taxes on the SUPER RICH!!!...who happen to be the people who start buinesses and hire people for you know...jobs.)

I remember reading how when medicare was retardedly higher than it was supposed to be.

"In 1965, as Congress considered legislation to establish a national Medicare program, the House Ways and Means Committee estimated that the hospital insurance portion of the program, Part A, would cost about $9 billion annually by 1990.v Actual Part A spending in 1990 was $67 billion. The actuary who provided the original cost estimates acknowledged in 1994 that, even after conservatively discounting for the unexpectedly high inflation rates of the early ‘70s and other factors, “the actual [Part A] experience was 165% higher than the estimate.”

But im sure this time nothing will go wrong. After all they mannaged our finances so well in the past...oh wait.

Just cut the red tape in the health insurance buisness and the prices would fall dramaticaly. Cut the amount people can sue for when a operation has complication (you know the ones the doctors tell you about...over and over and over again?) and the price goes down. This is just stupid and wasteful.

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Something else to consider about this 2000 plus page boondoggle. Dems say its to push down the costs of health care, in fact it raises them. Every cost cutting measure proposed by Republicans has been removed. There is no tort reform, the single measure that would have the greatest impact in reducing health care costs. There are no measures to allow competition across state lines. No, pretty much all this does, is force the country into socialized medicine.

This vote is great for the Democrats but terrible for the nation.

Actually, this vote is pretty much going to guarantee that Republicans will regain control of congress in the next election cycle.

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Actually, this vote is pretty much going to guarantee that Republicans will regain control of congress in the next election cycle.

You are correct but only in the short term. The long term goal of Democrats is to make citizens dependent upon the government and therefore assure their long-term political fortunes. Once you give a 'benefit' it is very difficult politically to take it away or even change it substantially. Social Security is a perfect example of this. Everyone knows that the program is headed for insolvency but no politician has the courage to change it because everyone has been forced to pay into it and all expect to get their investment back (whether the money is there or not). Bush made a valiant effort in his second term but it went nowhere because Dems accused him of trying to force grandma to choose between making the house payment or eating.

The more that Democrats can redistribute wealth through social programs such as national health care, Medicare, Medicaid, and the various Great Society welfare programs, the better chances they have to maintain political power. President Obama has made it clear that he wants to redistribute wealth and the country is well on our way to having a national tax base that only half of it's citizens pay into. Given that the national health care system will encompass such a huge proportion of the nations wealth, it brings a very large proportion of the nations economy under direct government control. The question now is, where can one go to regain their freedom from a controlling and liberty destroying government? The government is actually going to force citizens to buy health insurance or penalize them with fines or jail. It's crazy!

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Wolfpack: "This has always been about the political fortunes of the Democrat party and has ever been about health care per se."

Dude, that's the Republican position through and through. They don't care if it's about health care, gun control, or candy for mama; if the Dems bring it up, it can't possibly be what it is. You're right that it's sad the Republicans can never focus on the topic. If they actually focussed on the issues instead of the people bringing them up they might win an election. :)

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You know Barack Obama talked about health care legislation and getting insurance companies to deal with Americans fairly. Then Shazam, Obama was voted into office. It's no mystery folks. America wants this.

All that is being done is we are going to give/require that people have health insurance. I'm for it. Say what you want, everybody should have health care insurance.

Tort reform is a joke. You hear all the squawking, but just think about it. It's bad doctors that get sued. It's not the doctor who pays attention to his patients, who ensures that he doesn't leave sponges in patients or comes to the operating room grunk as a skunk. You're crying to protect bad doctors. At least we clean the crack pots out of most of our professions. But doctors just turn their heads and keep bad doctors in business. It's talking screaming and hollering to get a list of bad doctors on some areas. They fight to keep bad doctors names secret. You want tort reform, get rid of bad doctors. < :-)

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"doing nothing is not an option"

Doing this is far worse.

"America wants this"

Yeah? Then how come the majority of Americans are against this boondoggle?

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Sarge if they didn't want it, they wouldn't have voted in the congress or Obama. Not everybody wants it, but enough to get the congress and president that will push this through. < :-)

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"Dude, that's the Republican position through and through. They don't care if it's about health care, gun control, or candy for mama; if the Dems bring it up, it can't possibly be what it is. "

Anyone who could write this is completely ignorant of our Constitution; or is a lonely anti-American troll spoiling for debate he or she is not intellectually prepared for.

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He put the true price tag at $2.5 trillion over a decade once implemented.

What nonsense. It'll be more like 10 trillion.

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What nonsense. It'll be more like 10 trillion.

Why have it cost 10 trillion when it could be 100 trillion!

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Sarge if they didn't want it, they wouldn't have voted in the congress or Obama.

The latest Zogby poll shows Obama's approval rating hitting a new low of 45%. It appears people are having regrets, and he's only been in office 10 months.

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Historic, you say?

Right! Historically bad!

Down with Big Brother!

Big brother go intFercoUrsCe Kyourself!

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We must indebt ourselves to the Federal Reserve and raise taxes (and inflation) to impoverish the American people. -without a 3rd party Fed (private banking cartel) and the Fiat Debt we actually could afford health care if the lawyers would allow it.

We gave how many Trillion to the crooks? Now how many more on a monthly payment basis?

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How much is this Ponzi scheme gonna cost me monthly? Do they still accept the American dollar or must I pay in gold?

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Wouldn't it just be cheaper just giving Medicare coverage to the 15% that don't have health insurance coverage instead of this new health care bill that will still not cover 6%. =Who are we not covering and why?

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Guess what liberal bloggers living outside the U.S.A. if this becomes law you will have to prove you have health insurance coverage in the U.S.A. (NOT ONLY JAPAN) or you will be assessed at least a yearly $2,500 fine. Change you can believe in brother!!!

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The Pope - The Democrats will have ask the Japanese police to arrest me and hand me over to U.S. authorities for non payment of health insurance I don't need.

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The Pope.....Actually the latest Senate version of this atrocity will tax all U.S citizens living abroad who don't carry a health care plan that they will recognize as 'legitimate' is $750 dollars per year.

Still bad enough though and it's going to really hurt many folks who are living outside the U.S and their families.

Though I'm pretty sure after they reconcile the House version and the Senate version the will get it back up to 2,500 dollars in no time.

I'm been following this site as to how this travesty of a bill is going to really screw people over that live overseas.

http://www.aca.ch/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=327&Itemid=2

I'd recommend that you send the letter that they have to your Senator and pass the link along to anyone you know who will be affected by this. It is the only way to make your voice heard and if they don't reconcile the Senate version with the House version (the house version at least doesn't force this tax on you for living overseas and actually carrying health insurance which is about the only sensible thing in their version of this whole mess) all of our ex-pat compatriots are going to get shafted big time.

The only change you can believe in is the Government is going to tax you for living overseas and it is up to you and all of us ex-pats to put up the fight if that tax is unfair and this one is by a huge margin.

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"Anyone who could write this is completely ignorant of our Constitution; or is a lonely anti-American troll spoiling for debate he or she is not intellectually prepared for."

None of the above, I'm afraid, my dear victim. I know more about the American Constitution than most Americans, and clearly think it is of more value than your last president, who demanded people stop waving that 'damn piece of paper' about when he was implementing measures (ie. The Patriot Act) that flew in the face of the thing.

I wouldn't expect anything else from you, though. I certainly wouldn't except a logical debate on the issue at hand, because as I said, you guys are simply against this because it is a Democratic initiative, and you buy into all the lies and buzz-words the GOP pour into the sieve that is your head.

You won't be happy when the bill passes, but you'll be happier when some people you know who were not covered can now get help because of it. And you'll have the Democrats to thank.

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and clearly think it is of more value than your last president, who demanded people stop waving that 'damn piece of paper'

Bush never called the Constitution a 'damn piece of paper'. Do the search. No such direct quote exists.

You really make yourself look credible there bolstering your 'argument' with made-up quotes.

you guys are simply against this because it is a Democratic initiative,

If by 'you guys' you are referring to independents (like myself), conservatives (not always necessarily Republicans) and not a few Democrats well you might actually be right.

Moderator: Readers, please stop sniping at each other. Focus your comment son what is in the story.

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So we are basically paying them for something that is already free for many in order to make it freer for a few more. Is it actually cheaper to just goto prison than pay this "health care" -and of course as a prisoner you healthcare is now free, -but you had togo to prison first =How much should you be paying togo to Prison to get your "free" healthcare?

-I just want to know all of my "healthcare" options.

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Ridiculous solution for a ridiculous problem.

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There were barely enough votes to get it into open debate, no way anything is going to clear the senate floor without first gutting it of anything vaguely reminiscent of a public option. Healthcare must be addressed but some of the policies of the house bill are, frankly, abominable.

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It's funny to hear the proponents of the USA Patriot Act complaining about legislation being rammed down people's throat.

But hypocrisy amuses me. I'm funny that way.

I think the thing to remember here is this: tort reform has to be included. We just have to trust republican'ts to work for all Americans, and not just the rich, like they did with trickle down economics, and regulation of big business, and the environment.

Yeah, just trust them. That's the ticket.

Taka

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How long will it be before you have sick people kicked-out of the hospitals and into the streets (like Los Angeles (Lib Central) does)? Zombies will arise from the grave, flood emergency wards and vote Dem. The moon will collide with the Earth and produce a mammoth tidal wave flooding Indonesia once again.

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smithinjapan: I wouldn't expect anything else from you, though. I certainly wouldn't except a logical debate on the issue at hand, because as I said, you guys are simply against this because it is a Democratic initiative,

Pot, meet kettle.

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It's funny to hear the proponents of the USA Patriot Act complaining about legislation being rammed down people's throat.

You mean the patriot act that won broad bi-partisan support from both Dems and Republicans? That patriot act? And how many people really oppose it, even today, I guarantee you, the number doesn't even come close to those who oppose health care reform. Check the polls, the majority of Americans were fine with the patriot act, the majority of Americans oppose this health care boondoggle. Wanna try again Taka, this time with a real comparison?

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This is just to get discussion folks. It doesn't pass the bill, it doesn't cost you a dime. It just stops the republicans from stopping debate.

If it wasn't for the 60 votes, the republicans would stop debate. They would stop the senate and the country from stopping debate. < :-)

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as you were:

They would stop the senate and the country from hearing debate. < :-)

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You know Barack Obama talked about health care legislation and getting insurance companies to deal with Americans fairly. Then Shazam, Obama was voted into office. It's no mystery folks. America wants this.

Really because all the polls leading up to the election showed it was the economy and the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that were the primary reason why he was voted into office.

Tort reform is a joke. You hear all the squawking, but just think about it. It's bad doctors that get sued. It's not the doctor who pays attention to his patients, who ensures that he doesn't leave sponges in patients or comes to the operating room grunk as a skunk.

Actually it's more about ending defensive medicine practice which is estimated to cost the health care/medical industry $200-300 billion dollars per year in unnecessary care, guess who pays for that? The patient does because they, doctors, start ordering unnecessary tests and scans of a patient in order to cover themselves legally so they can't be sued.

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Noliving, In an industry that cost the American public $2.26 Trillion, $300Billion is a drop in the bucket. And if the AMA would police themselves it would drop significantly.

An industry that takes 19.5 percent of GDP, you'd think that they would want to weed out the quacks, but they don't. They protect them. They protect the same people that make Tort reform such a topic with people like yourself. < :-)

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@taka318>

It's funny to hear the proponents of the USA Patriot Act complaining about legislation being rammed down people's throat.

Is it as funny as hearing Democrat opponents of the Patriot Act (still in effect, Obama voters!) cheering on the likes of Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi as they ram through a 2000 page bill that will make your medical history government property, managed with all the discretion, accountability and professionalism post office and DMV employees and bureaucrats bring to their jobs?

The proposed bill will create 111 new federal agencies. It's madness. The government is giving themselves the power to regulate areas of your life far,far beyond your health and health insurance choices.

Oh, and I'm still waiting for a certain member of JapanToday's foreign experts on the structure of the American republic to point out to me the section of our Constitution which permits the federal government to dictate to the fifty states and their citizens anything at all about health or medical medical care.

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States will be able to opt out. < :-)

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Louisiana Sen. Landrieu's vote was basically bought by Reid and Pelosi ("the most ethical Congress ever") this weekend, with 300 million of taxpayers' money.

adaydream's reply: "States will be able to opt out!"

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Oh no victimcrat, I was commenting on your post.

But I'm all for the health care bill. The 300 million to Landrieu's state is just part of doing business for a state that was devistated by Katrina. It's the least we can do for a state that we still haven't done right by. < :-)

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But I'm all for the health care bill. The 300 million to Landrieu's state is just part of doing business for a state that was devistated by Katrina. It's the least we can do for a state that we still haven't done right by. < :-)

lol, sorry for not agreeing with you here. But thats just so laughable. 20 years from now, no doubt there will still be people talking about Katrina and how Louisiana should get extra money because if it. Lets forget about all the hurricanes before or after. Lets forget about taking personal resonsibility for building your house right on the ocean, and not expecting an occasional hurricane. Lets especially forget about all the damage that was done elsewhere, not just NO, which was only minimally damaged until the damn dikes broke, and whose mismanagement cost billions of dollars.

Getting back to the subject at hand, 300 million is chump change. Landrieu is planning to extract much, much more as this bill goes through. Same thing with the Senator from Arkansas. Of course while it will ultimately cost every taxpayer trillions of dollars, it will at the very least cost Landrieu and Blanche their jobs so at least theres one bright spot there.

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