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Deported man is suspect in deadly California beatings

48 Comments
By CHRISTOPHER WEBER

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48 Comments
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But the liberals and their whacked policies made me leave California.

You must be a pretty sensitive person to become an immigrant. Other people leave their countries because of war, internecine strife, famine and poverty. But you left because of liberals? First world problems.

Not at the levels it is now as well as the influx of illegals.

I suggest you read up on California's history, in that case. You may be in for a surprise. The American state was born through violence, genocide, greed, corruption and murder.

It also has a history of diversity going back thousands of years. Read into that what you will.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

I weep for my State, since Democrats took over in the late 80s, California has been turned into a out of control high taxed sewer. No wonder so many people are leaving. This is just terrible.

Nobody is forcing you to remain in Japan. You can always hop on your private plane and go back and sort out the Democrats.

Because, obviously, crime in California was non-existent before immigration. Immigration being what developed the state and all.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Yup.

So, it's alright for rich folk to be immigrants fleeing liberalism but damn, poor people fleeing repressive regimes, war, poverty and all the horrors that cause them to seek a better life is not alright?

That’s like saying, I need to look in the mirror and study about myself. Lol

It's like saying the levels of crime are so high because of immigration whilst totally not comprehending the history of your state's being. Or it's just willful ignorance.

Yes, we sacrificed a lot of blood sweat and tears, unlike “some” other countries that were given their countries because they were a colony.

Nope, lost me there. An elaboration would be appreciated.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Pathetic.  "Liberals are the cause of illegal immigration" lol.  You're the perfect example of "negative" toxic partisanship thinking Bass. So busy blaming anything that is not part of your partisanship bubble but doing absolutely nothing truly effective or supportive to fix it.  AT ALL.  Yep, that is first world problems by the self-entitled arrogant doing better than others mentality... Remember, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Never mind that even in the US citizens (especially formerly middle class now realizing they're working poor) still worry about if they're going to have food on their table, roof over their heads while living from pay check to paycheck. 

While I do believe that the problem with illegal immigration lies with both parties (where did the GOP actually get off their buttocks and DO something serious about besides "well I'm rich and I need low pay gardeners/housekeepers/maids/nannies etc. to make me feel special with servants...)

This still highlights the fact that this person in the US illegally is a REPEAT illegal entry, and there are hundreds of thousands of them.  Even Obama was known as the "Deport president" south of the US border.   The reality is this is not sustainable to just go with "open border" stupidity and bleeding heart "Humanitarian grounds" to let EVERYONE pass "just because".

Merkel tried it with the EU and how did that turn out?  The UK came up with Brexit, nationalism (including the extreme ones) blew up, and any true asylum seeker has a much harder time because more than just them showed up at the door.

Legal immigration is fine because it can be controlled by how many, and what kind of people the country itself chooses to let in.   Illegal immigration?  You have absolutely no idea as to WHO is getting in, or what they might have done previously in their own country or on their way to the US.   Also not every sob story is true.

And as I've said before, the first step to preventing this is for the country of origin to become good enough for their people to not want to leave in the first place.   Their governments and leaders have to be called out for their inaction/corruption/foolishness in not taking care of it's own people.   HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE!

4 ( +4 / -0 )

If someone has a green card obtained from the US government, then they are documented and in the US legally and considered a naturalized citizen.

This is factually incorrect.

A naturalized citizen has taken extra steps, legally, to gain the rights and privileges of citizenship, like voting.

Being in the USA legally with a green card does NOT convey the right to vote even if they are here 60 yrs, unless the extra steps to become a citizen have been taken AND passed. A permanent resident is not the same as a Naturalized Citizen. Ask Arnold or any of the many LEGAL Immigrants who've taken the Citizenship test.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Again, you have no borders, you have no country. 

Okay. But there is literally no country on earth with open borders.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

t should t need to be said that this is horrific. At the same time, it does nothing to change the fact that immigrants commit less crime than citizens.

You cannot deport citizens unfortunately so the two groups are not legitimately comparable. But the real point is they shouldn't be committing any because they shouldn't be here in the first place.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

All the crimes this man did should never have happened inside the USA.

Catch and release doesn't work. Isn't that obvious?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I'm just waiting for comments about how the homeless men were dressed provocatively or had been drinking.

He certainly deserves a long, long jail term.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

Again, you have no borders, you have no country. I weep for my State, since Democrats took over in the late 80s, California has been turned into a out of control high taxed sewer. No wonder so many people are leaving. This is just terrible.

Innicent until proven guilty. Am I right?

People are leaving because of the cost of real estate. High real estate prices indicate a good economy. I thought conservatives were in favor of a good economy.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

And you are conflating legal immigrants with illegal aliens, right?

Nope:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/undocumented-aliens-violent-crime-murder-statistics-data-2018-8

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/identities/2018/8/22/17768194/mollie-tibbetts-illegal-immigration-crime

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/30/upshot/crime-immigration-myth.html?mtrref=www.google.com&gwh=5995986DA82A0AB9DD9C91031D95742A&gwt=pay

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Interesting to see people defending illegal immigration even with so many stories like this one. Cognitive dissonance.

1 ( +12 / -11 )

But the liberals and their whacked policies made me leave California

Funny, that's not what you've said before. Also, you said you voted for Clinton twice. Odd given he is a liberal.

Not at the levels it is now as well as the influx of illegals.

Care to provide cites to support your naked assertion?

Legal and look what illegal has been doing to it, thanks Democrats

Yeah, because democrats bus in undocumented immigrants. In fact, my sources tell me Obama and Hillary are leading two separate caravans of buses chalk full of undocumented immigrants. They are personally driving the lead buses. The corrupt upper echelons of the FBI and the Deep State are providing logistical support. ROFL.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

@Chip Star

And you are conflating legal immigrants with illegal aliens, right?

Sweet dreams

1 ( +2 / -1 )

This man is not a citizen, so that proves the case that we should keep out non-citizens?

And when a citizen commits murder, does that prove the case that citizens should not be allowed in the country?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

100% of illegal aliens have committed a crime.

No matter how others may want to paint this, it is true. They commit a FEDERAL crime as soon as they cross into the US illegally, or overstay their visa. But some naïve daydreamers don't want to perceive that.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@TheFu thanks for the correction. I'm not always fully awake and don't completely fact check myself when I'm in such a state.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@strangerland

Your comparison is flawed for one huge reason. A physical trait can't be changed. Sneaking into a country is a choice.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

So while what you guys are saying is true, it doesn't actually mean anything.

Uh yes it does. Name some countries where being in that country without express permission (or necessary paperwork like an ID, visa or passport) is not against the law of that country. Even the country where you live has laws against being in that country illegally if you're not a citizen. C'mon, how naïve do you want to be?

It is against the law for a variety of reasons. Keeping track of the populous (via census) and how much funding the government needs to take care of the people that live there. How many people from xx country are immigrating to xx country and why. And obviously making sure a foreign individual/group with a criminal intent from getting into the country as well.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The open borders logic is a fallacy because humanity in it's entirety is not at the point of complete and utter trust of each other due to differing ideals. One group wants to run the world with theocratic ideals, another wants to run it with authoritarianism, another wants to run it based on wealth, another wants to run it on ethnicity... etc

When none of what I mentioned above no longer matters, then countries/groups/individuals will no longer have conflicts based on such things and then we can have open borders.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Interesting to see people defending illegal immigration even with so many stories like this one. 

Who here is defending this particular case? Interesting how you can read a defence stance into this.

The point is, that this happens the world over - crime. And it's as often committed by nationals as well as non-nationals.

Cognitive dissonance.

I suspect the irony of misusing that terminology is perhaps lost on you.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

California has all but turned out to be a state for the rich and super rich AND the homeless, the middle class has no chance and is all but migrating to other states.

https://www.dailyjournal.com/articles/345819-legal-marijuana-the-dystopian-state-of-california

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/19/californians-fed-up-with-housing-costs-and-taxes-are-fleeing-state.html

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@Chip Star

"...immigrants commit less crime than citizens."

Legal, bona-fida immigrants, right? No one is arguing that, including the president, whose wife is an immigrant.

Let's not conflate real immigrants, like Japanese bankers or Indian IT workers, with illegal aliens -- people who sneak over the border, evade law enforcement and remain in the country illegally. What's their crime rate?

It's murky, but probably deliberately so, as the authorities have not wanted to explore this issue.

Here's some research:

(https://www.cis.org/sites/cis.org/files/articles/2009/crime.pdf)

A Pew Hispanic Center study found that, of those sentenced for federal crimes in 2007, non-citizen Hispanics were 74 percent of immigration offenders, 25 percent of drug offenders, 8 percent of white collar offenders, and 6 percent of firearms offenders. Non-citizen Hispanics are 5.1 percent of the nation’s adult population.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

undocumented immigrant in California... hmmm, he is going to walk free

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@Lizz: At the same time, it does nothing to change the fact that immigrants commit less crime than citizens.

How many crimes are committed by immigrants is not the issue. Escobar is an illegal alien. All illegal aliens commit at least one crime. Many, like Escobar, the man who killed Kate Steinle, and the man who raped and killed the Iowa woman commit additional crimes as well. No one has a problem with legal immigrants.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@ Chip Star

The stats you present are cherry picked, suggestive and questionable quality, which is understandable since US authorities have not been systematically measuring crime and illegal aliens. However, the following is from an official govt report, reported in June this year on the Federal prison system.

"The report found that more than one-in-five of all persons in Bureau of Prisons custody were known or suspected aliens, and 93 percent of confirmed aliens in DOJ custody were in the United States unlawfully. "

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/departments-justice-and-homeland-security-release-quarterly-alien-incarceration-report

Although it notes that state data is difficult to gauge because states don't clearly disclose the immigration status of inmates.

Here are the problems with your references, which don't actually directly examine the issue at hand.

Yet during this same period, the rate of violent crime — homicides, rapes, robberies, and assaults, according to the FBI — fell by 36% to about 386 incidents per 100,000 residents.

 

 -- That’s all violent crime committed by everyone. It could easily be the legal population is doing much less of it, which makes sense giving the aging demographic in the US.

 

 

A.... study…. compared all forms of immigration and violence in rural versus urban communities from 1990 through 2010. The number of foreign-born residents — accounting for many other factors 

 

-- Again, ALL immigrants, most of whom would be legal.

 

The number of foreign-born residents

 

Again, the majority would legal.

 

 

The study looked at conviction data in Texas

 

What about the other 49 states? And looking only at conviction rate begs a number of questions, like many judges may have found deportation after a couple of weeks of detention more expedient.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

It would be nice to just once engage in mature critical discourse on these threads instead of constantly presenting facts only for them to be denied.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Once again the right is repeating their delusion that the right is for illegal immigration.

They are entirely clueless.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The point is simple, I watched California being a prosperous State with a vibrant middle class to a now impoverished State with money primarily coming in from Hollywood and Silicone Valley. 

California has the 9th highest median household income of any US state. That's the middle value, and not the average. It's 35 out of 51 in terms of poverty rate for US States (including DC but excluding US territories).

0 ( +0 / -0 )

But the real point is they shouldn't be committing any because they shouldn't be here in the first place.

This is really hard for some folks to understand.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@Chip: it does nothing to change the fact that immigrants commit less crime than citizens.

Immigrants apply for entry and go through an orderly process. Escobar is an illegal alien - six times over. 100% of illegal aliens have committed a crime. That’s a lot more than citizens and legal immigrants. Where do you get your talking points, LaRaza?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

It should t need to be said that this is horrific. At the same time, it does nothing to change the fact that immigrants commit less crime than citizens.

-2 ( +8 / -10 )

Again, you have no borders, you have no country. I weep for my State, since Democrats took over in the late 80s, California has been turned into a out of control high taxed sewer. No wonder so many people are leaving. This is just terrible.

-2 ( +8 / -10 )

"Escobar was being held without bail but U.S. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement officials have filed a detainer seeking to take him into custody if he is released"

He might be released? Good grief...

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

A Pew Hispanic Center study found that, of those sentenced for federal crimes in 2007, non-citizen Hispanics were 74 percent of immigration offenders, 25 percent of drug offenders, 8 percent of white collar offenders, and 6 percent of firearms offenders. Non-citizen Hispanics are 5.1 percent of the nation’s adult population.

You do realize that non-citizen immigrants includes individuals with green cards, correct?

Good night all. Enjoy your evenings, and see you on the other side of midnight.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@Chip Star there is obviously a difference between documented and undocumented immigration. If someone has a green card obtained from the US government, then they are documented and in the US legally and considered a naturalized citizen. Why are you trying to confuse the two?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Immigrants commit less crimes than citizens?

Well this ILLEGAL immigrant committed 1 crime and I (a citizen) committed 0. So there you go.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Immigrants commit less crimes than citizens? 

Yes.

Well this ILLEGAL immigrant committed 1 crime and I (a citizen) committed 0. So there you go.

You do not represent all citizens.

Why are facts and logic so hard for conservatives?

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

So, it's alright for rich folk to be immigrants fleeing liberalism but damn, poor people fleeing repressive regimes, war, poverty and all the horrors that cause them to seek a better life is not alright?

We can't nor should we take every single refugee into the country, it would depend on various factors, you have more people on this planet, we can't have blanket amnesty or have an open door immigration.

It's like saying the levels of crime are so high because of immigration whilst totally not comprehending the history of your state's being. Or it's just willful ignorance.

Yeah, whatever.

Nope, lost me there. An elaboration would be appreciated.

Yeah, most non-Americans wouldn't understand and haven't since 1776

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

100% of illegal aliens have committed a crime.

No matter how others may want to paint this, it is true. They commit a FEDERAL crime as soon as they cross into the US illegally, or overstay their visa. But some naïve daydreamers don't want to perceive that.

Well, it's technically true, but it's conflating two things, leading to a logical fallacy.

The first thing is whether or not something is criminal, and the other is whether or not it should be a crime. If you justify the existence of a law as being necessary to stop criminals, then define people as a criminals based on that law, it's circular logic. The action is only justified through the result of the action itself, and the criminals it stops are only defined as criminals by the existence of the law itself.

Imagine this:

A: Gingers should be outlawed, they need to dye their hair a different color, and not allowed to breed

B: Why should they be outlawed?

A: Because being ginger is illegal, so they are all criminals.

B: Why is it illegal?

A: Because we need to stop criminals.

B: And why are they criminal?

A: Because they are gingers.

Going on about how 100% of illegal immigrants are criminals is the same circular logic:

A: Illegal immigrants are criminal.

B: Why are they criminal?

A: Because immigrating without following the proper procedures is illegal, so they are all criminals.

B: Why is it illegal?

A: To stop criminals.

B: And what makes them criminals?

A: Immigrating illegally.

So while what you guys are saying is true, it doesn't actually mean anything.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

How many crimes are committed by immigrants is not the issue. Escobar is an illegal alien. All illegal aliens commit at least one crime. Many, like Escobar, the man who killed Kate Steinle, and the man who raped and killed the Iowa woman commit additional crimes as well. No one has a problem with legal immigrants.

The point is simple, I watched California being a prosperous State with a vibrant middle class to a now impoverished State with money primarily coming in from Hollywood and Silicone Valley. The remaining middle class are leaving, if California wants open borders and more crimes, that’s on them, I still have family in OC and it’s still clean and safe, but the rest of California is turning into a dump. If you don’t have borders, you have no country, you allow the gangs to roam free, you have anarchy.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

"Ramon Escobar"

Any relation to Pablo?

"Detectives have seized a wooden baseball bat and bolt cutters that they believe were used to bludgeon men as they lay sleeping on the beach or on the street"

That's sick.

"deported from the United States six times"

They couldn't keep him out after the 6th time? Maybe we should tighten border security...

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Nobody is forcing you to remain in Japan.

But the liberals and their whacked policies made me leave California.

Because, obviously, crime in California was non-existent before immigration.

Not at the levels it is now as well as the influx of illegals.

Immigration being what developed the state and all.

Legal and look what illegal has been doing to it, thanks Democrats.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

There's no such thing as an illeagal immigrant or undocumented immigrant. Those are euphemisms for illeagal border crossers, a.k.a., criminals. As long as insane democrats and leftist have their way, California will be the horrific model that is yet to come. Immigrants are people who go through customs, flash a passport, and a visa of some sort. If you didn't enter the country that way, you're a criminal and not an immigrant. The stupidity of the left is responsible for letting this guy break the law 6 times, only to then graduate to murder.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

But instead of prison, let's do the "democratic" thing and give this guy a warm blanket, a hot meal, amnesty, a driver's license, and free college credits. After all, it probably was white supremacy--white males to be specific--that this guy was a victim of and had to navigate.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Blacklabel - Yeah, but according to statistics, the likes of you and me and other U.S. citizens commit more crimes than undocumented/illegal immigrants. I guess we had better shape up, lol.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Innicent until proven guilty. Am I right?

Wait!! Now the left insist....ROFL!

People are leaving because of the cost of real estate.

Due to the high taxes that liberals keep imposing on the people.

High real estate prices indicate a good economy. I thought conservatives were in favor of a good economy

Amd bad for the middle class with the influx of illegal immigrants and a State where more and more small businesses are leaving the hostile small business environment, so if the IT tech geeks like it, they can keep it, the middle class will leave it to them.

Funny, that's not what you've said before.

I did.

Care to provide cites to support your naked assertion?

https://www.dailyrepublic.com/all-dr-news/opinion/local-opinion-columnists/the-right-stuff-5/

The corrupt upper echelons of the FBI and the Deep State are providing logistical support. ROFL.

That might not be far fetched.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

But you left because of liberals? First world problems.

Yup.

I suggest you read up on California's history, in that case.

That’s like saying, I need to look in the mirror and study about myself. Lol

You may be in for a surprise. The American state was born through violence, genocide, greed, corruption and murder.

Yes, we sacrificed a lot of blood sweat and tears, unlike “some” other countries that were given their countries because they were a colony.

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

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