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© (Thomson Reuters 2023.Destruction of Kakhovka dam takes Ukraine war into uncharted territory
By Matthias Williams, Mark Trevelyan and Gloria Dickie LONDON©2024 GPlusMedia Inc.
82 Comments
stormcrow
In WWII, the Nazis did the same thing to slow down the Allies. The Russians are behaving like Nazis. Just barbaric.
proxy
It is starting to look like to dam collapsed because it was in bad shape and the reservoir levels had risen dramatically.
JJE
They are sure doing a great job of blaming Russia for:
blowing up their oil pipelines
attacking cities held by Russia like Donetsk and Lugansk
shelling Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant
blowing up the Crimea bridge
attacking the Kremlin with drones
blowing up a dam that supplies Crimea with waterPTownsend
Who knows who is responsible for the collapse of the dam, but it's hard to believe Ukrainians actually damaged it, unless perhaps they were paid Russian stooges, given the possible long term problems predicted for the region and the country as a result. Putin and the Kremlin have long shown they have zero regard for the environment, and might even blow up a nuke plant in their zero sum approach to war. The world will continue to lose if Russian/Chinese/Iranian forms of predatory state capitalism go unchecked. None of those states has any regard for the planet, nor for individuals not part of their belief system, regime and caste.
englisc aspyrgend
Yet another war crime by he russian fascists, irrationally lashing out to destroy for the sake of destruction, it reeks of fear and desperation.
Seapig
If the shoe fits…
proxy
@PTownsend
There are plenty of videos circulating today, from last year when the Ukraine hit the dam with himar missiles, so it is very easy to believe that they did actually damage it.
JJE
They are also doing a fantastic job of pretending that on Dec 29th 2022 the WP didn't publish a story that featured Ukrainian Maj Gen Kovalchuk bragging about conducting HIMARS strikes on the exact same dam.
Cards fan
Well yeah, that'll happen when Russia invades Ukraine. People don't exactly have a lot of good will toward Russia right now.
I don't think I've seen a single person blame Russia for blowing up the bridge
Ditto
Right. I'm sure the dam being blown up has nothing to do with the ongoing Ukrainian counter offensive. If it were Ukraine that blew up the dam, they could have done that at any time.
Haaa Nemui
Replace Moscow with Kyiv and swap Russia and Ukraine in this sentence and it’s likely to be 100% accurate. Sabotage comes from within and Russia had control of the dam.
Blacklabel
Yeah and Ukraine was just bragging the other day about their saboteur groups that they materially supporting that have been attacking inside of Russia. Such coincidence.
wallace
Massive environmental damage to a very large area and tens of thousands of people.
Sven Asai
It wasn’t me, that’s the important fact here.
ClippetyClop
Zelensky has already said that the Soviets did it, which sort of blows a dam-sized hole in your latest deep state MSM media conspiracy
Eastman
i have heard many hoaxes like Russians have no rockets but have shovels,Russians have no ammo so buying it from DPRK,Russians have no tanks so start to use T43 from museums,stealing toilets and microwaves because desperately need chips and list goes on...
Level up hoaxes like Russians have attacked Zaporozhie nuclear power station by artillery/station under their control aka they shoot by artillery at themselves/.Other legend says that Russians are behind of blowing of Nord Stream.
Most recent one is that Russians have blown dam and have flooded by its water territory under their control,put at risk cooling system in Zaporozhie nuclear power station/still under russian control/and have caused a lot of damage at territory under that dam/also territory under their control/.
Control question.
CUI BONO?
try to use your common sense and think twice...
Kiev regime seems be at very desperate state as their so called spring offensive have ended in few hrs with heavy losses while leopards and NATO "wunderwaffen" weaponry get burned like paper...so even blowing of dam as kind of "revenge" and then spreading of fake non senses fake news against Russians through related mainstream media...
How about to say that country blow gas pipeline/civilian infrastructure/ is terrorist state?
How abt to admit that to blow Crimean bridge/civilian infrastructure/is act of state terrorism?
This dam as well...or all its "kosher" because of "heroi","slava Ukraine","Ukraine prevails" mind settings?
GET REAL!
JJE
One untruth that this dam "destruction, breach or collapse" event is causing is this completely false idea that it fell in front of the Ukrainian counter-offensive, which now has to be postponed.
Look at a map. The initial stages of the failed counter-offensive took place far to the west on the Donetsk front, approx 400km east, NW of Vuledar (47°52'00.2"N 37°09'04.8"E).
Blacklabel
They have to leave him “walk back” options when the facts say differently. CNN already saying it was damaged days prior to “collapse”.
the soviets? That includes Ukraine does it not?
TokyoLiving
Ukrainian circus trying to stop the unstoppable advance of Russia..
That is the great counter-offensive of the Kyiv regime, to destroy aging dams and attack apartment complexes..
Losers, lol !!..
Blacklabel
The value is in the initial accusation. Did the majority of people see yesterday that the US intelligence was aware of a plan by Ukraine to blow up the nord stream?
no, most people just remember the initial false report that Putin is stupid enough to blow up his own pipeline.
They already moved on to the “current thing” by now so news that Ukraine did it doesn’t even matter anymore.
TaiwanIsNotChina
I'd say it's already been stopped for months. Russia ain't getting any stronger.
Blacklabel
In 6 months it will be ah yeah Ukraine blew up that dam.
They practiced by shooting US supplied weapons at its flood gates in December 2022.
Will be that “everybody knows that”, nobody ever said differently, who cares, they were invaded! already moved on to the next narrative by then.
GBR48
Should have targeted Putin and the Russian government from Day 1 with insurgents. Tactical military failure by the West. How much is this going to cost to fix and who will be paying? How much will food prices rise and scarcity increase?
fallaffel
Do you really believe this? I realize it's what people on RT are saying, but it sounds like another Kremlin fantasy. Last year's counteroffensive also "failed" after 1-2 days. This magnificent defeat of Ukraine was then inexplicably followed by a few months of "strategic retreats" by Russia.
This kind of fantasy is what spreads when one side is operating under silence (Ukraine) and the other is spouting propaganda. It may be short-lived though.
fallaffel
My personal opinion is that this was probably an unintentional dam collapse due to pre-existing damage. It's also what CNN is reporting now. Otherwise there would be some more evidence presented by now.
Yrral
July 4
Cards fan
I'm sure this prediction will be every bit as accurate as those saying Russia wouldn't invade Ukraine!
Bob Fosse
“so you already decided who did it.
when no one else knows.
Based on what, exactly”
u_s__reamer
Cui bono? The usual suspects come to mind. With the imminent Ukrainian counter-offensive coming the timing of the dam's "collapse" will put smiles on the taciturn Russian mugs of war.
Blacklabel
Based on CNN pushing that it just collapsed and Zelensky saying Russia intentionally blew it up.
who is lying there?
Bob Fosse
Why didn’t you include Russia saying Ukraine blew it up in your speculations of lies?
A telling omission, no?
Eastman
Llets talk about facts.
UA have no chance to win over Russia in any case.this is fact supported by reality on the ground.
there is no military solution for this conflict..Russia have no plan to take over remaining parts of Ukraine.UA have no power to get previously owned pieces of land by military force.
one and only solution is peace negotiation.UA citizens are hostages of Kiev regime fantasies about some spring offensives or defeating of Russia by military forces.
people behind this conflict have to understand that they have no chance to win over Russia.
all clear now.longer Kiev regime will continue beg for guns from west and send new soldiers to die and destroy own country and infrastructure more-longer this conflict will continue.
sad that all of western backers of corrupted Kiev regime wont see that.
Desert Tortoise
The strikes were against a bridge, not the dam itself.
Blacklabel
not at all. You asked why I believe Ukraine blew it up.
I dont believe so because Russia said Ukraine did.
Rather, I believe so because CNN and Zelensky both said other, quite different, things.
Basically nobody believes Zelensky that Russia blew up their own infrastructure.
So to protect, CNN jumped in an claimed it collapsed.
to give people who dont believe Ukraine did it another option to muddy the waters.
UChosePoorly
I'm still agnostic on who the culprit is, if there even is one, but just wanted to call out that the damn is Ukrainian infrastructure, not Russian.
fallaffel
This is not logical thinking.
UChosePoorly
dam*
You can tell which word I type more often, lol
fallaffel
I'm looking for the fact(s) in here, but see only one person's opinion. It may or may not be correct; time will tell.
Blacklabel
sure its logical.
If Russia DIDNT do it, then Ukraine did. its an either/or.
Unless CNN helpfully creates a 3rd possibility, it just collapsed all by itself.
so now no one has to prove Russia did it to still be able to make the claim that Ukraine didnt do it.
I still suspect the USA based on what they did to the dam in Syria that they denied doing.
4th option?
wallace
The Russians last year threatened to blow up the dam.
Ukrainian authorities have long warned that the dam's failure could unleash 4.8 billion gallons of water and flood the southern Kherson region and dozens of other areas where hundreds of thousands of people live, as well as threatening a meltdown at a Russian-occupied nuclear power plant 93 miles away.
Video
https://youtu.be/64NsrW3AVB8
The smell of oil in the water.
Dam Consequences: How Nova Kakhovka's Breach Will Transform Russia's Invasion of Ukraine
https://youtu.be/04sg2uHQK7w
kurisupisu
Actually, Ukraine is on the record as having a plan to blow up the dam as a counter measure against Russia
Blacklabel
so why would Russia do something that would cause a meltdown at a nuclear power plant that Russia already occupies?
that is pretty nonsensical and actually points to Ukraine doing it to get the Russians to have to evacuate.
wallace
The current level of cooling water at the Zaporizhzhia NPP can maintain cooling for several months.
Blacklabel
ok, and then?
Bob Fosse
Actually, no I didn’t.
fallaffel
Ok then. By your logic, CNN invented a story to let Ukraine off the hook (just in case they blew the dam), and the US is also in on it because...Syria. It's good detective work. Or bias. You can decide which is more likely.
2020hindsights
kurisupisu
No they aren't.
La vie douce
" I'm still agnostic on who the culprit is, if there even is one, but just wanted to call out that the damn is Ukrainian infrastructure, not Russian."
You are correct, the other posterno doubt meant that at the time in question it was under Russian control, same as Zaporozhnye N-plant.
UChosePoorly
Perhaps, and I am not one to be pedantic, but you would be surprised by the number of posters here who think that part or all of Ukraine belongs to Russia.
La vie douce
Perhaps, and I am not one to be pedantic, but you would be surprised by the number of posters here who think that part or all of Ukraine belongs to Russia.
Fair enough.
La vie douce
From CNN live updates.... seems the narrative is being quietly changed in regards to both the Kakhovka dam -
It remains unclear what caused the breach as a CNN analysis of satellite imagery shows the dam was damaged just days before suffering the structural collapse. The incident has prompted mass evacuations, flooding and fears for large-scale devastation.
Ukrainian troops witnessed Russian soldiers being swept up in flood waters and fleeing the east bank of the Dnipro River after the collapse, an officer in Ukraine's armed forces said. Many Russian troops were killed or wounded in the chaos, according to the officer. "
and also regarding the North Stream bombing
*Nord Stream pipelines developments. **The US received intelligence from a European ally last year that the Ukrainian military was planning an attack on the Nord Stream natural gas pipelines three months before they were hit, three US officials told CNN. The attack on the pipelines last September has been condemned by US officials and Western allies alike as a sabotage on critical infrastructure. It is currently being investigated by other European nations."*
japancat
Damn ！lol
kurisupisu
If Russian troops were swept away and perished in the deluge of water it seems very strange that Russia would ALLOW their own troops to fall Victim to an own goal?
Blacklabel
yeah i mean if Russia did it - wouldnt they tell their own troops to get out of the way first?
Cards fan
Wouldn't Ukraine do the same thing?
If Ukraine did it, why now? They could have done it any time. Why wait until the CO starts? This makes it easier, not harder, for Russia to defend it's positions.
EFD
It FINALLY says something factual.
The Russians had every reason to blow this dam and we know from their previous actions that they have utterly zero scruples about committing what is essentially an act of eco-terrorism.
Blacklabel
CNN isnt indicating that any Ukrainian soldiers were washed away or killed, only Russians. So there were no Ukrainians there to warn or to evacuate.
Why now? to distract from the failed launch of the "spring offensive".
wallace
The Russians had already pulled back their troops from the dam area and moved them to a position more likely of a Ukraine offensive. Blowing the dam stops the Ukrainians from crossing there and protects their withdrawing troops.
The U.S. believes the country's counteroffensive against Russian invaders has now begun.
Cards fan
So what? That doesn't mean it didn't happen. I've read news reports, I've seen video footage of them being evacuated.
Lol complete and total nonsense. How do you know the Spring offensive failed? Because the Russian MOD said so?
Blacklabel
if the Russian troops already moved, then this is a lie? cant seem to get the stories straight.
La vie douce
If Ukraine did it, why now? They could have done it any time. Why wait until the CO starts? This makes it easier, not harder, for Russia to defend it's positions.?"
Russian point of view , true or false who knows, but thats what they,re saying on this. -
"Ukrainian forces sabotaged the Kakhovka hydroelectric dam in Russia’s Kherson Region in a bid to deprive Crimea of drinking water and distract from Kiev’s faltering counteroffensive “This sabotage is connected with the fact that, having launched large-scale offensive operations two days ago, the Ukrainian armed forces are not achieving their goals,” Kremlin claimed on Tuesday . While the flooding now makes it difficult for Ukrainian forces to cross the Dnieper and attack Russia’s defensive lines, the destruction of the dam also appears to aid a number of Ukraine’s key objectives. The flooding mostly threatens the eastern bank of the river, where Russian troops withdrew to last year amid concerns that the Ukrainian military would blow up the dam. With the dam destroyed, the level of the Dnieper has fallen further upstream, including at the Zaporozhye Nuclear Power Plant. Ukrainian troops made several attempts to cross the river to recapture the plant from Russian forces last year, and lowering the water level would remove a major obstacle to future attempts. "
Raw Beer
What! They tried their counteroffensive, and failed miserably.
EyesWideOpen
To those who's so quick to point the finger of blame at the Russians or Putin without a shred of evidence, how about opening your eyes and ears just a little and read or listen to a different viewpoint for a change? Who knows, you might find that it's a refreshing change from all the narratives fed to you by the MSN.
Remember Tucker Carlson? He's got a new series on Twitter with the first episode being about the attack on the dam:
https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1666203439146172419?refsrc=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1666203439146172419%7Ctwgr%5Ebce78e651db066a0823b5f367d9cc8e3c9dfe025%7Ctwcon%5Es1&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rt.com%2Fnews%2F577602-tucker-carlson-twitter-show%2F
wallace
All of what is happening in Ukraine is because of Putin's invasion and war.
Cards fan
Did I claim the Russian troops moved? The Russian military isn't exactly known for valuing the lives of their troops.
Also, it's been reported that the Ukrainian military already had beach heads on the east of Dnipro River, making it pointless for them to destroy the dam.
Blacklabel
nobody is that stupid to kill their own people when they can just tell them to move.
come on, man.
wallace
Blacklabel
That was the post by La vie douce @11:43 am JST
Blacklabel
OR its a lie that Russians were killed and "swept away" in the total "chaos".
Take your pick.
Either Ukraine lied about that too, or Russia didnt do it to begin with because they wouldnt kill their own people.
EFD
They are exactly that stupid and careless.
They have a proven track record of military operations that do not take into account the well-being of their soldiers as well as a proven track record of operational incompetence.
Blacklabel
no, that is CNN.com
He just posted it here.
Cards fan
Oh, so you think Ukraine is stupid enough to kill their own people?
Blacklabel
no one posted that Ukranians were killed. were they?
CNN:
*Ukrainian troops witnessed Russian soldiers being swept up in flood waters and fleeing the east bank of the Dnipro River after the collapse, an officer in Ukraine's armed forces said. Many Russian troops were killed or wounded in the chaos, according to the officer. "*
wallace
Explainer: What the Kakhovka Dam Catastrophe Means For the Ukraine-Russia War
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/06/06/explainer-what-the-kakhovka-dam-catastrophe-means-for-the-ukraine-russia-war-a81415
In Photos: Dam Breach in Russian-Controlled Ukraine Floods Surrounding Areas
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/06/06/in-photos-dam-breach-in-russian-controlled-ukraine-floods-surrounding-areas-a81409
Cards fan
I just posted a link. They had established beach heads on the east side of the Kherson river. Why would they then blow them dam after establishing a presence on the east side? It makes 0 sense.
wallace
Blacklabel
And no link was provided. So it was his post.
Blacklabel
yet no Ukrainians were killed while "many" Russians supposedly were.
So Ukraine is lying to CNN? CNN is lying?
La vie douce
That was the post by La vie douce @11:43 am JST"
As I stated this was posted on CNN live updates at that time. Its not from me but a "reliable" western media.
wallace
La vie douce
No link was provided.
2020hindsights
Blacklabel
What are you talking about?! This will flood Ukrainian settlements that now need to be evacuated.
wallace
CNN is not on the ground.
Cards fan
You don't know that. In fact, it's highly likely Ukrainians will die as a result of Russia blowing the dam.
2020hindsights
EyesWideOpen
Oh, so you expect anyone to believe sacked Mr. Just Asking Questions? Give me a break!
EFD
Blowing a dam is a war crime.
Gee, which side is guilty of committing war crimes too numerous to mention but a short list includes destruction of civilian infrastructure, bombing (intentionally) civilian targets clearly marked as such, and rape and execution of civilians as an instrument of suppression?
The Russians are clearly willing to burn (in this case flood) Ukraine into ruin if they cannot subjugate them. It is the MO of the classic domestic abuser on a nation-state scale.