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Dutch Safety Board: Buk missile downed MH17 over Ukraine

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By MIKE CORDER and NATALIYA VASILYEVA

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Ukrainian separatist forces took credit for downing the airliner on social media shortly after it happened, then quickly took down their posts once it became apparent that it was a commercial ariliner they had downed, and not a Ukrainian government jet. Russia has vetoed a UN resolution to form an investigative panel to determine the parties responsible for the downing. The jet was downed with a Russian made missile.

It's clear as day who's responsible.

9 ( +17 / -8 )

When is Buk not a Buk? When there seems to be a forgetful omissions.

The aircraft broke up in the air and crashed over a large area controlled by rebel separatists who had been fighting government troops there since April 2014.

The Ukrainians weren't the forces destroying evidence after the crash or threatening to fire on investigators in their rightful recovery efforts. Further: "The board said the plane should never have been flying there as Ukraine should have closed its airspace to civil aviation"

The trigger happy results of irresponsible air traffic control is likely the only fact "that killed all 298 people aboard the plane."

Other than that, motive for either side firing at a commercial jet suggests someone, and probably many, know who fired and why. Three monthes of armed conflict should have informed all commercial flights that Ukraine was in a hot war and their air space was a known danger.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Just repeating what we've know for long.

Interesting that the Russians have dropped their "Ukrainian Ground Attack Aircraft downed MH17" claim. Bit late.

1 ( +9 / -8 )

15 months to tell us what was already known. Still, does focus the mind when flying over Middle East or other war zones.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

check Fox News web page. Usually, they have everything.

The only problem is differentiating their lies and misinformation from the actual facts.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

@turbotsatOCT. 14, 2015 - 03:03PM JST <It's really easy. Start with the conclusion, then work your way backward.

And the Dutch (read: NATO) can't have a conclusion? :-)

Really, however way this goes, I don't think it is such a big deal as far as culpability for Russians or the Ukrainian separatists go. It was a warzone, Kiev was using planes to support their efforts. They can hardly suggest they can't defend themselves against the planes. The Ukrainians kept letting civil aircraft in and one went down.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Questions:

Why would Ukraine forces shoot down an aircraft? Rebels didn't have any, and it was the rebels who were shooting down aircraft.

The Buk... ever heard of taking weapons from the enemy? Even before the Russians started supplying the rebels with modern tanks we saw them driving around in old Soviet era vehicles, so the chances of a Ukrainian Buk falling into rebel hands is totally possible... remember they seized bases.

Besides... it's the Russians saying it wasn't one of their later versions, not the investigators. Of course they'd try to clear their rebel pals.

Lots of anti-NATO sentiment on here today... as if they would sanction the murder of nearly 300 people for political ends. Really cynical.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Burning Bush: What do you mean by "the Dutch".

There would have to be parts of the Dutch government who know about the coverup, right? And they are willing to go along with it?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

We can safely dismiss out of hand Russian attempts to discredit the Safety Board's investigation. Credibility of Russian government and propaganda tools, zero. The Dutch, significantly more credibility

But why?? Dutch investigators were invited to Almaz-Antey experiment with blowing the same rocket near aircraft hull, they didn't come.

They knew toooo much?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

So, no actual evidence incriminating the Russian Federation or President Putin?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Two facts are omitted in this article. First, for several months after the crash the Donetsk rebels were telling the Dutch investigators that they still had a lot of debris of the plane and asked to take it. The Dutch were not very much interested.

Second, the Almaz-Antey for several months was telling the investigators that it was more then willing to cooperate, to give any information the investigation team needed. The Dutch were not interested at all, and that forced the Almaz-Antey to begin its own investigation.

I can't understand it - if you're investigating a result of use of some weapon, why not to consult the maker of the weapon? How the Dutch know how the Buk works, what are the differences between its modifications? Do they think that they can get all the information just from Internet?

It speaks volumes about "credibility" of the Dutch "investigation".

0 ( +6 / -6 )

CrazyJoe: Ukrainian separatist forces took credit for downing the airliner on social media shortly after it happened, then quickly took down their posts once it became apparent that it was a commercial ariliner they had downed, and not a Ukrainian government jet

Yep.

I believe the Russian position is that someone hacked into the account the second the incident happened. Then the person who hacked in did not change the password, so the rebels were able to log in and delete it, then delete the account. This can easily be proven by IP locators, but I'm sure it's just not worth the time for the Russians to do this because.....of some reason, I'm sure. It really doesn't matter.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

So what's Russia's position today? The Ukraine shot it down intentionally to blame it on the rebels?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

SuperLib: So what's Russia's position today? The Ukraine shot it down intentionally to blame it on the rebels?

Burning Bush: That certainly coincides with the evidence

So are the Dutch are willing to go along with it?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Lots of anti-NATO sentiment on here today... as if they would sanction the murder of nearly 300 people for political ends. Really cynical.

Why not? You do realize that a very big reason why Kiev is not cutting its losses and accepting peace is because the West keeps dangling hope in their faces, hope they are not willing to back with blood or even a LOT of cash. Whatever political goals the West has, they are accepting the loss of a lot of Ukrainian lives. What's ANOTHER 300 if you can rub Russia's nose in it to NATO?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Thunderbird2

As for the Buk I am well aware of what the system is, and are YOU aware that not all of the rebels are scruffy farmers? Some of them are trained soldiers.

No, it seems you are not aware how the Buk works. Sure many Donbass rebels are excellent soldiers, but they are exclusively infantrymen - gunners - tankers. May be some of them many years ago served military draft in Air Defence units, but the matter is that Buk, first, is not crewed by draft personnel, only by specially trained officers / NCOs , and, second, it's impossible to operate it outside regular army, because it needs support systems and personnel. The rebels have nothing like that.

But somebody else have. On the day of the shooting of MH17 Ukrainian army had several Buk-equipped units deployed just in the area Russians say the missile came from. My guess that Ukrainians, who had no real exercises for years, fired the missile by mistake, as they did in 2001, when they shot down a Russian passenger jet over the Black Sea.

it's like a discussion group for conspiracy nuts

Only one question: why Russians (Ministry of Defence, Almaz-Antey) are turning inside out to offer any help, to cooperate in any possible way with the investigation team, while the Dutch so-called "investigators" are stubbornly refuse even to talk with them? Simple logic tells us who is looking for the truth and who is not.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I think people or countries responsible for things like the downing of MH17 AND bombing of an Afghan hospital should be held accountable. If one side gets a pass, then unfortunately, others who are powerful enough will also get a pass.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

RT news has some interesting analysis.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@Thunderbird2

The Buk... ever heard of taking weapons from the enemy?

Do you understand how the Buk works? It is a rather sophisticated piece of machinery, it requires good maintenance and team work of very professional crew, one launcher is just not enough. Motley group of rebels simply can not operate the system. And if (I repeat, IF) Russians sent their crew to help rebels, they would not have made such a mistake as to shoot down a passenger jet. Ukrainians can, they've already did it in 2001.

Lots of anti-NATO sentiment on here today... as if they would sanction the murder of nearly 300 people for political ends.

Really?? Ever heard about Libya? There NATO bombers killed pretty much then 300, and exactly for political ends.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

At least this puts to bed that it's a fighter jet that some people believed. Now it's just a matter of who fired the BUK.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Burning Bush: Is just as plausible as believing that the Russians set up a Buk system in East Ukraine, fired it and then pulled it out, all without any eye witnesses. Not one farmer or local person say any Buk or any missile being launched. Not one.

So I should believe that the Dutch government is covering up the truth about their people being murdered because some farmers didn't see a missile launch?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Bush: I wouldn't go that far.

OK, then please tell me what you think happened.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@Jeff Ogrisseg : please, check Fox News web page. Usually, they have everything.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Ukraine and Western countries contend the airliner was downed by a missile fired by Russia-backed rebels or Russian forces, from rebel-controlled territory.

Netherlands as far as I understand - West, not East country. So it was no investigation. Honest Dutch investigators spend one year (without any result) trying to blame Putin.

They should made their work better and not playing political games.

CrazyJoe Ukrainian separatist forces

In short - people who does not support Nazi in Kiev. (is it obligatory ??)

on social media shortly

During all this "investigation" US officials constantly talk about "information from social media" By the way US satellit (specialised in rocket lunching control) was at that thime over East Ukraine - but US government refused to give any photo.(classified info)

Russia has vetoed a UN resolution to form an investigative panel

To say the truth - Russia vetoed tribunal. Not some fantastic "panel"

Investigation was made by honest Dutch specialists - without any result.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

The main problem - safety. As a result of political games normal investigation was cancelled. So from now - this is possible to shoot down civil plane for some political goals. ..

Welcome to the wonderful new world !!

Most of us using civil planes... My congratulations.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@gcbel"The Dutch, significantly more credibility".

Perhaps, for viewers of Fox News channel only.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Thunderbird Questions: Why would Ukraine forces shoot down an aircraft?

It's quite normal - they constantly shelling living blocks in east Ukraine, murdering lot of civilians.

It's quite normal - Nazi love to kill as much as they can.

Besides... it's the Russians saying it wasn't one of their later versions, not the investigators.

In short - Russian is not part of investigation team -they are expelled.

Kiev guys - they are part of this team.

Guys who come to power - just shooting in opponents from sniper rifles and Kalashnikovs..

So it will be very long investigation.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Good grief... it's like a discussion group for conspiracy nuts...

As for the Buk I am well aware of what the system is, and are YOU aware that not all of the rebels are scruffy farmers? Some of them are trained soldiers.

Putting my tinfoil hat on, there is also the possibility that Russia is LYING about them not having older Buk systems. Putin is already lying about attacking only IS targets in Syria so who's to say he never had a hand in ordering this? All things are possible.

And doesn't the US have the ability to track Russian missile launches.

They did... it was mentioned on this very site not long after the incident... and people said it was a lie back then too.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@Thunderbird2"Putin is already lying about attacking only IS targets in Syria".

Hardly Putin 'is lying' about actions in Syria. Rather he has no desire to sort out that terroristic cr*p in Syria on 'good' and 'bad' guys. Obama has 'friends' among Saudits and Al-Qaeda but it's quite normal for western two-faced hypocrites. They spit on poor victims of ISIS and Al-Qaeda.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Burning Bush at Aug. 12, 2014 - 06:35PM JST "Preliminary results from the investigation point to the MH17 being shot down by a fighter jet Mr. Kerry."

Whoops, so much for that conspiracy theory you guys were peddling. tsk, tsk.

http://www.safetyboard.nl

We can safely dismiss out of hand Russian attempts to discredit the Safety Board's investigation. Credibility of Russian government and propaganda tools, zero. The Dutch, significantly more credibility. Remember when the little green men in Crimea were not Russian army but "local" militia?

Look forward to reading the conclusions of the Dutch criminal investigation when they become available.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

The missile’s Russian maker, however, presented its own report hours earlier, trying to clear Russia-backed separatists who controlled the area or Russia of any involvement in the crash

It's really easy. Start with the conclusion, then work your way backward.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Boy, it's like some of you woke up yesterday and have no clue as to how the U.S. has been trying to demonize Putin for over a year now. Interesting timing on this I might add. Remember when the U.S. said that Assad had gased his own people, only to find out it was a CIA asset?

I think I'll wait for an investigation into the investigation since no government can or should be trusted right now.

-5 ( +8 / -13 )

@Burning Bush"it is in the Ukrainian arsenal".

It doesn't matter. In general, who is responsible for safety of air flight ? Ground controllers and the crew of the plane. Since the beginning Ukrainian air flight controllers diverted flight path into dangerous zone of civil war. They did not close air space over eastern region. Saying that "Russians must be responsible because the missile was made on Soviet plant" is the same as blaming Japan "because ISIS thugs use Toyotas".

-8 ( +5 / -13 )

@Crazy Joe"It's clear as day who's responsible".

Yes. Ukrainians and their US masters-owners. It was clear as day since the very beginning. Besides, according to this Dutch report Ukrainians violated safety rules when allowed the civil jet to fly in dangerous zone over eastern Ukraine.

-16 ( +8 / -24 )

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