Egyptian reform leader calls on Mubarak to go

There is no "reform leader", what a crock. El Baradai has no platform and no following. He is a useful puppet for Moslem Brotherhood, that is all.

Do you become a "reform leader" by declaring yourself as such to gullible journalists?

The article above says that tourism accounts for about 11% of the total economy.

@yabits: If only 11% of the econmy depends on tourism, what does the rest of the economy do? Also, what exports does Egypt provide to the rest of the world? Right now I only see the price of oil going up, not because Egypt has oil but because OPEC sees an opportunity to raise the price.

So all of the so called activist, what are their jobs, and what do they do?

A Star of David was featured prominently in a 'Down with Mubarak' placard. I doubt that makes Egypt's neighbor feel at ease with the protests. Is this just the opinion with one protester? Maybe. Then again, maybe not.

@atamant: As well as many placards against Mubarak that I have seen that were written in English, when I thought Arabic was the native language.

alpha,

A Star of David was featured prominently in a 'Down with Mubarak' placard. I doubt that makes Egypt's neighbor feel at ease with the protests. Is this just the opinion with one protester? Maybe. Then again, maybe not.

That may well be the case. However, I would suggest that you consider that the news source is ISRAELI. (thanks atamant)

That matters the most. Egypt under Sadat signed a Peace Treaty with Israel, and Mubarak kept the peace between the two. If Mubarak goes, and the opposition comes to power, what do you think Israel is going to do?

It may not matter much to those of us who live far away, but this is in Israel's back yard. Furthermore, what difference does it make? One could say that the reports that the aims of the protestors that appear in Arab papers are peacful could be biased also.

@Alphaape

"Taking a quick read from papers around the immediate area, I found this gem in the Jerusalem Post:

A leading member of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt told the Arabic-language Iranian news network Al-Alam on Monday that he would like to see the Egyptian people prepare for war against Israel, according to the Hebrew-language business newspaper Calcalist."

That may well be the case. However, I would suggest that you consider that the news source is ISRAELI. (thanks atamant)

However, I would suggest that you consider that the news source is Jewish.

I suggest you consider the source is Israeli.

Moderator: Back on topic please.

If there is one thing that this suggests, it is that Egypt will see far fewer of the worst kind of tourist if the Brotherhood gains power, which is highly doubtful to begin with.

Speaking of lazy and ignorant and insensitive to boot, what kind of tourist exactly is the 'worst kind'? How is a tourist not going to Egypt good for Egypt? Please step back from your comments for a second. There is certainly a reason for concern about the Brotherhood coming to power in Egypt. They have made gains in the political arena in recent years. Are you honestly saying you would be cool with living under them as leaders of your government? I highly doubt it.

Again, so what? Being influenced by an idea or two doesn't make one a member

This one obviously is yabits'.

yabits,

So what? The United States "worked with" the USSR to defeat the Axis in Europe. That doesn't mean that either adopted the other's programs or philosophies.

Based on your post, you clearly did not know about this connection attempting to make the claim that there was none. Both Arafat and the Brotherhood were working for the same goals for a while. I am merely showing you were not completely correct.

Again, so what? Being influenced by an idea or two doesn't make one a member.

Never said it made him a member, however it does mean there is a shared philosophy. Again, Based on your post, you clearly did not know about this connection attempting to make the claim that there was none. Both Khomenei and the Brotherhood were working for the same goals for a while. I am merely showing you were not completely correct.

I believe that it would be better to research and relate the ideas of the Brotherhood as it exists today rather than taking the lazy, ignorant way out by tagging it with false associations.

What I wrote to correct you are correct associations and neither lazy or ignorant. You seem to be completely ignorant of the existence of these facts until the were pointed out to you.

@Alphaape

"Taking a quick read from papers around the immediate area, I found this gem in the Jerusalem Post:

A leading member of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt told the Arabic-language Iranian news network Al-Alam on Monday that he would like to see the Egyptian people prepare for war against Israel, according to the Hebrew-language business newspaper Calcalist."

That may well be the case. However, I would suggest that you consider that the news source is Jewish.

it if anyone gets killed, regardless of whether they know them or not. Imagine that?! Guess they just got to toughen up and get real, right?

@lesgrande: As a person who has had to prepare to battle, I am not particularly fond of having anyone fight or be near fighting, but that is just part of human nature.

Taking a quick read from papers around the immediate area, I found this gem in the Jerusalem Post:

A leading member of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt told the Arabic-language Iranian news network Al-Alam on Monday that he would like to see the Egyptian people prepare for war against Israel, according to the Hebrew-language business newspaper Calcalist.

I guess that he didn't get the memo that this is just about removing a dictator in Egypt and getting more food to the people, and finding work for the unemployed.

@Alphaape

They are doing these same things in China, Vietnam and other nations around the world too. So it is not just an Egypt/US backing bad guys problem.

This thread happens to be talking about Egypt.

If you wanna go on about other countries, yeah of course it goes on, the difference is the US will physically invade and destroy on a much larger scale and with more frequency than anyone else, while insisting that it's all about the democracy- US taxpayers left with the bill, bigwigs and military buddies enjoy the spoils.

I know you dig it (being military and all), but you gotta understand why it don't sit well with some folks, 'specially if they happen to have some friends or family who get caught up in the crossfire, know what I mean? Hell, some people just plain don't like it if anyone gets killed, regardless of whether they know them or not. Imagine that?! Guess they just got to toughen up and get real, right?

I believe that part of what lesgrande is getting at is this: Every nation and organization has two sets of values: Those they espouse and those they practice.

There is little doubt that in the last century, the United States has imagined itself -- to the point of total delusion -- as the font of all freedom and liberty in the world. The young person growing up in Egypt or any other country soon learns and hears of the ideals of America.

And then they start to learn of the actual track record, which is, at the very best, uneven. Nothing drives home the point better that actions speak louder than words.

If the Muslim Brotherhood does gain power in a coalition government, do you think that people will be more willing to go to Egypt and tour as they had before? I wouldn't want to go with them in charge

If there is one thing that this suggests, it is that Egypt will see far fewer of the worst kind of tourist if the Brotherhood gains power, which is highly doubtful to begin with.

Arafat, while never becoming of member of the Muslim Brotherhood, did in fact work with them.

So what? The United States "worked with" the USSR to defeat the Axis in Europe. That doesn't mean that either adopted the other's programs or philosophies.

Khomeini, despite religious differences was said to have been influenced by the ideas of the Brotherhood.

Again, so what? Being influenced by an idea or two doesn't make one a member. Just as the founders of the US were influenced by many ideas that came from French philosophers. Did that make them French too?

I believe that it would be better to research and relate the ideas of the Brotherhood as it exists today rather than taking the lazy, ignorant way out by tagging it with false associations.

No one is claiming the loss of tourist income would be a good thing.

@yabits: If the Muslim Brotherhood does gain power in a coalition government, do you think that people will be more willing to go to Egypt and tour as they had before? I wouldn't want to go with them in charge, not knowing that at what point will they decide to institue reforms and people wind up getting stuck there.

Also, how many tourist companies would take the time to invest in tourism companies, not knowing if one day they will be labled as "infidels" and forced out.

Also, do you think food prices will go down after this rioting? I doubt it.

That is the third time you have written it, so:

Arafat, while never becoming of member of the Muslim Brotherhood, did in fact work with them. Khomeini, despite religious differences was said to have been influenced by the ideas of the Brotherhood.

It would not be a good thing for Egypt to have the Muslim Brotherhood at the helm.

So a country that has massive unemployment, to loose another 12% is not going to be a good thing.

No one is claiming the loss of tourist income would be a good thing. But the claim that it represents the majority of Egypt's economy is off by a large degree. As is the claim of Arafat and Khomeini being part of the Muslim Brotherhood.

lesgrande: The US is not "any country", but one with the highest defense budget in the world which sets up regimes around the world to their liking...or invades and attacks when things don't go their way. You are really in the dark if you don't realize this and are unable to connect the dots in the case of Egypt. Easier if you just grow a pair and face the fact that the US is the main instigator of big-time trouble in the world. But you're probably also a pension benefactor of US military action, a minion for the corporate and political crooks.

I think most of your arguments are emotional outbursts that lack any real substance other than casually linking concepts together for the purpose of mental masturbation. The world would be better of without people like you joining the discussion.

Wow. The article above says that tourism accounts for about 11% of the total economy. And you claim that it accounts for the "majority."

@yabits: that 11% of the economy employs about 12% of the workforce. So a country that has massive unemployment, to loose another 12% is not going to be a good thing.

@lesgrande:

when 1.3 billion dollars is "donated" as military aid? I suppose you are going to play naive and claim it is truly given away freely with no strings attached. And you did chicken out and not tell us what job it is exactly you do that gives you actual experience of the situation.

I am not stupid to believe that the money the US gives goes into the wrong hands, but you answered my question. The US gave the money, and the military probably took a large portion, but where did the rest go? It is the responsibility of the Egyptian Govt. to take care of its people. Not the job of the US Govt to say, "X" amount needs to go to social programs, health care, etc.

As far as my empolyment, not really pertinent to the discussion, but to sume it up, I have had dealings with the military establishment.

Actually, Iran has not violated any NPT rules.

They certainly have.

Seems the guy might have been pressured to word his report in a certain way.

You are mistaken if you think it seems that way. El Baradei no one's puppet and speaks his mind quite honestly and clearly. If El Baradei says Iran was in violation, you can be assured they were in violation.

@Alphaape

As yabits pointed out you are just talking off the top of your head and don't really have a clue. Case in point, who do you think gets a cut of the action when 1.3 billion dollars is "donated" as military aid? I suppose you are going to play naive and claim it is truly given away freely with no strings attached. And you did chicken out and not tell us what job it is exactly you do that gives you actual experience of the situation.

@SuperLib The US is not "any country", but one with the highest defense budget in the world which sets up regimes around the world to their liking...or invades and attacks when things don't go their way. You are really in the dark if you don't realize this and are unable to connect the dots in the case of Egypt. Easier if you just grow a pair and face the fact that the US is the main instigator of big-time trouble in the world. But you're probably also a pension benefactor of US military action, a minion for the corporate and political crooks.

This issue is about the living conditions of the average Egyptian. Anyone who says that anything else is the cause is simply lying to please their agenda and stir up hate against whatever it is they hate most.

The charges of hypocrisy are just utterly, utterly silly since everyone is a hypocrite. Take any action by any country or individual and I'm sure you'll find that you can create a way to place blame by simply changing your talking points. Country X got involved? Well then it's their fault for getting involved. County X didn't get involved? When then it's their fault for not getting involved. Country X got somewhat involved? Well then they did too much or too little. Country X had different positions with different countries at different times? Great. I'm sure you spoke out against every position every time if you hate country X meaning you changed your position as often as they did.

The issue is about Egyptians and their relationship with their government.

Countries which export as much as Egypt that is 33 USD billion or lower,are in woes.

Countries who export less than 33 billion USD,in woes include Tunisia,Pakistan,Sudan,Ivory Coast,Sri Lanka,Myanmar,North Korea,DR Congo,Lebanon and many others.

The poor egyptians or poor others, watch ships of the rich,pass by suez/elsewhere everyday, but they still stay poor .

This Egyptian people power is kinda like the Tea Party movement - they're taking their country back. The Muslim Brotherhood is just a bogeyman that Mubarak uses to scare his people and to get America to keep paying his tabs. Yes, the Muslim Brotherhood is a significant minority, but even the pundits don't believe they're anywhere near enough to win a national election. And this Egyptian people power is across party lines whether Muslims, Christians, secular - they want Mubarak out and more freedom. There's no sense in asking more freedom -like the internet- if it's just going to be restricted by a restrictive Islamist state. No, that's not what the Egyptians are risking their lives for.

Not that corporate greed is really the issue here, considering that Egypt has no oil, and if people are really that poor, where is there money to be made? Tourism accounts for the majority of mony that is generated by the government.

Wow. The article above says that tourism accounts for about 11% of the total economy. And you claim that it accounts for the "majority."

Earlier, you stated that both Arafat and Ayatollah Khomeini -- a Shiite leader!! -- were members of the (Sunni) Muslim Brotherhood. In fact, Arafat never was since the PLO/Fatah were more often at odds with the Brotherhood. And the presumption that Khomeini was a member is too ludicrous for words.

Egypt has an unsustainable 80 million population living in a tiny area.(The Nile valley and delta) Add to it, counties upstream are demanding more and more of the nile's water which only adds to Egypt's lack of food security.

Global Food and Comodities inflation has tipped the balance in many developing contries. Poor harvests, land being gobbled up for industry, changes in diet for hundreds of millions, using corn for ethanol, depletion of aquifers does not bode well for the future.

Egyptians have a reputation for being smart and sophisticated, so I hope they can work things out in a way that doesn't descend into anarchy. But my money's on a military junta taking over from Mubarak.

I spoke of corporate criminals in reference to Alphaape's mindset.

@lesgrande: Not that corporate greed is really the issue here, considering that Egypt has no oil, and if people are really that poor, where is there money to be made? Tourism accounts for the majority of mony that is generated by the government.

And for you to begin to try to label someone as a certain types, shows me that you are just mouthing what you hear instead of thinking for yourself. Go back and look at my posts. See that I didn't say that the US has a vested coporate interest in Egypt, unless the Disney company bought the pyramids.

Egypt was a clear ally, next to Israel. One of the larger Middle East Armies who can fight. Why wouldn't the US want to keep them secure.

Also, with the billions of money that the US has poured into Egypt, I guess my business classes I took so long ago I must have forgotten. Please tell me, how the US giving tax dollars to a poor country fo r30 years, is lining the big corporate business.

"Arabs resent the US big time way and above other countries, and have reason to."

I doubt the unrest is about the US. If anything pointing fingers at the US serves thee same purpose it does for the state press in places like Egypt. You can be sure that America-bashing won't change much whoever is in control. Besides, it is one way for Arab nations to get the many dupes on the American or European Left to carry water for em.

Arabs resent the US big time way and above other countries, and have reason to.

Agreed...We buy their oil and sustain their lavish lifestyle for the elites that rule their countries.

Is that not true?

Ha ha ha ha ha...Hillary, u are truly hilarious! If your government DIDN'T overthrow the democratically elected government of Mohammed Mossadeq in 1953 (only because he wanted to nationalize the Anglo-Iranian Oil company so his countrymen can have a bigger slice of the profits that were going OUTSIDE to the West), then Iran would be the BEST example of democracy that the Middle East would have ever seen. Oh the hypocrisy.

Agreed....Since 1953 and up until 1979 and now in 2011 is just a great super country that we call..... errrr...Great.

Clinton suggested there were U.S. concerns over the possibility of the Brotherhood seizing direction of the movement. She warned against a takeover resembling the one in Iran, with a “small group that doesn’t represent the full diversity of Egyptian society” seizing control and imposing its ideological beliefs.

Ha ha ha ha ha...Hillary, u are truly hilarious! If your government DIDN'T overthrow the democratically elected government of Mohammed Mossadeq in 1953 (only because he wanted to nationalize the Anglo-Iranian Oil company so his countrymen can have a bigger slice of the profits that were going OUTSIDE to the West), then Iran would be the BEST example of democracy that the Middle East would have ever seen. Oh the hypocrisy.

[ lesgrande's go-to expert on Egypt ] "hasn't had their world view slanted/brainwashed by minions of corporate and political criminals."

I think you just like throwing around phrases like "corporate criminal". You don't really even believe what you post.

Bottom line is, someone hired by the White House and the State Department to analyze Middle Eastern affairs probably has a bit more insight into the situation

Insight, yes. But honesty?

but when we go in with a heavy hand in places like Iraq and Afg, to help stop human rights issues, we are the bad guys.

To help stop human rights issues? Oh dear, how old are you?

But of course. In your world everything is America's fault.

Yep, pretty much. Or at least the fault of whoever is controlling America.

Both men were much more deserving of the prize... Certainly El Baradei calling Iran out on their IAEA violations is at least noteworthy.

Actually, Iran has not violated any NPT rules. Seems the guy might have been pressured to word his report in a certain way.

@Alphaape

Well, why don't you go ahead and tell us what your job is, which gives you so much hands-on experience and objective insight into the situation (objective being the key word).

Bottom line is, someone hired by the White House and the State Department to analyze Middle Eastern affairs probably has a bit more insight into the situation than you, and hasn't had their world view slanted/brainwashed by minions of corporate and political criminals.

Check out Ross Douthat's op-ed in today's New York Times for an excellent analysis of how we got here.

People like you seem to have some basic issues with rational discourse. Of course you know better than everyone, don't you?

@lesgrande: I think that is a compliment in some sort of odd way, but to answer your question, I dont't think I know more than anyone else here on these issues. On some things, I do, simply because of the nature of my work.

But your comments sound more to me like the "elitist University type" who spends all their time thinking and not doing, and working out how much "contact time" you actually have to have with your students to keep tenure on the public dime.

@SolidariTea: You are correct! I guess they have finally figured the me out.

others like the EU and Japan follow in the wake of. Iraq ring a bell?

@lesgrande: Sure they follow in the wake of the US. They move in and reap those profits so that the can retire at 50 (look at the unrest in Greece and other EU countries about raising the retirement ages there). They follow in the form of moving in and setting up contracts to rebuild and provide infrastructure. China is clearly the big winner in Iraq, since they have been gobbling up the contracts to rebuild and make a presence there (like they have come into Africa and filled in once the USSR fell and those communist states no longer received support (like Angola)).

French companies (along with the backing of the UN) were behind some of the "Oil for Food" scams that were going on in Iraq after the first Gulf war.

Widespread youth unemployment, rigged parliamentary elections in November 2010,

That is an Egypt problem. After all, they are electing their own. And if their own want to screw their own people over, then that's not the US's fault. That greed and corruption is from their fellow countrymen.

The United States has been tepid in supporting human rights and democracy in Egypt for years and has to deal with the resentment among Egyptians because of that.

So now we look tepid, but when we go in with a heavy hand in places like Iraq and Afg, to help stop human rights issues, we are the bad guys.

"You, however, have lost sight of yours, most likely because you benefit from neo-conservative US policy in the form of a pension."

Alphaape- - The game is up. LesGrands is on to us. I always thought the world had no idea that us 300 millions Americans rob Egypt's 25 million workforce blind (the billion$ in aid we force upon them aside) so's we in Americur can be sure we got nice fat pensions waiting for us when we retire, at age fifty. But I was wrong.

"Yes, its Egypt's problem, but its America's fault."

But of course. In your world everything is America's fault.

@Alphaape

People like you seem to have some basic issues with rational discourse. Of course you know better than everyone, don't you?

Unrest in Egypt: What’s going on? By Zachary Roth

Michele Dunne is a senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment for Peace. She has served as a specialist on Middle East affairs with the White House and the State Department, and has written widely on Arab politics, and political and economic reform. The Lookout asked her to explain what's going on in Egypt, and what it means for America.

LOOKOUT: What are the protesters angry about, and what do they want done?

M.D.: Protesters have a large number of economic, political, and human-rights grievances. Widespread youth unemployment, rigged parliamentary elections in November 2010, and the prospect of President Mubarak (in power since 1981) beginning another term--or being replaced by his son--are the sparks that set these demonstrations off. The demonstrators are asking for Mubarak to step down and make way for an interim government to prepare for free elections.

LOOKOUT: How might a shift in power affect U.S. interests?

M.D.: U.S. interests are being challenged here. The United States has been tepid in supporting human rights and democracy in Egypt for years and has to deal with the resentment among Egyptians because of that.

It's pretty well known that these days the US has been far more involved in initiating foreign poicies in the middle east, which others like the EU and Japan follow in the wake of. Iraq ring a bell? Arabs resent the US big time way and above other countries, and have reason to. You, however, have lost sight of yours, most likely because you benefit from neo-conservative US policy in the form of a pension.

What is the agenda of the groups behind this? The AP sure doesn't report it.

Attaining power.

The media coverage of this has been been a joke. on CNN: "Peaceful protests across Egypt. 100 killed."

[shows video of exclusively young men protesters] "This is clearly a cross-section of Egypt, men and women of all ages"

[shoes riot footage, burned shops, some people with guns] "the protests are been peaceful, everywhere you go the people are so nice"

contrast Tea Party coverage: [video of old women asking questions to politicians] "the venom and rhetoric of right wing rage... very dangerous..."

I am not so sure El Baradei is anyone's puppet either. I think in many ways, he is still a big question mark.

In EVERY way he is a big question mark. What is the agenda of the groups behind this? The AP sure doesn't report it.

I am not so sure El Baradei is anyone's puppet either. I think in many ways, he is still a big question mark.

Actually, I meant for the first line to be quoted. However, I like the fact that El Baradei at least had the guts to call Iran out on their IAEA violations. Certainly better than ignoring them anyway.

Both men were much more deserving of the prize than Obama (and Kissinger).

Actually, none of the above are. But then again, the Nobel Peace Prize is a left-wing Oscar, so maybe they are.

Both men were much more deserving of the prize...

Certainly El Baradei calling Iran out on their IAEA violations is at least noteworthy.

With the Muslim Brotherhood being put in jail previous, Mubarak family escaping and Suez fighting days before the revolution --> I would say it is a staged event to put the next puppet ElBaradei in, raise oil prices and take attention away from Davos and the criminal bankers now asking for $100 Trillion.

Bottom line: Gas prices $4.50-5.00+ a gallon. -the globalists want this revolution to linger and bring uncertainty to the situation = no police (rioting) -Which I hope as a nation and brotherhood they can get past, but with poverty for so pong for so many that will be difficult. -Food aid from groups would really help that situation and gun donations from other Muslim nations would help also.

Over 20% of the Egyptian population lives in poverty.

And that's not Japan/USA/Euro poverty which means you have to walk to the store or you have to buy off-brand goods or have to make do with an old TV --no, it means getting your necessities via theft and or the municipal dump or other less palatable means.

Yes, its Egypt's problem, but its America's fault.

Yeah, but don't forget the EU hands over approx USD600mio/year.

Yes, its Egypt's problem, but its America's fault.

No it's not. The EU wanted the Suez Canal open to keep trade going, so where where their protests against Mubarak for the past 30 years.

Elbaradei was incompetent as head of the UN watchdog agency. His Nobel prize is as hilariously irrelevant as Arafat's.

Both men were much more deserving of the prize than Obama (and Kissinger).

The level of depravity, corruption, tyranny and repression is due to U.S. support. They have been aiding corrupt dictators, turned countries into living hell holes. People in the Middle East are not stupid. They know that the US government is not to be trusted.

@paultaylor: Why is it that everyone blames the US for the problems in the Middle East. The EU has backed Mubarak, as well as China and Japan. While the US has had inputs in the Middle East, for the past, the one country that we showed full support for was Israel. I don't see them being in a state of near riot (at least the Jewish people and not the Palestinians).

As we have seen in the past, the US is not the big "puppet master" as many like to think. The EU goes it's own course (yet they ask the US to assist in bailouts, another story). Please provide me with links to stories where the EU, China, Russia, Japan has called for the removal of Mubarak over the past few years. Yet those countries still do business, and advise travelers to go there and tour.

The stuff going on in Egypt has nothing to do with the US. It is all Egypt's problem.

At 12%, the US is not that far behind Egypt. Does that make it a 'living hell hole', too? Egypt has the one of the most diverse, if not the most diverse, of any of the Arab economies. Yes, there are plenty serious gripes, but I am not sure 'living hell hole' is a fitting description.

Over 20% of the Egyptian population lives in poverty.

Since when is Egypt a 'living hell hole?' Do you understand what this term means?

I did and discovered their connection with Nazi Germany beginning in the 1930's.

LOL!!

Elbaradei was incompetent as head of the UN watchdog agency. His Nobel prize is as hilariously irrelevant as Arafat's.

paultaylor: study what the Muslim Brotherhood is about

I did and discovered their connection with Nazi Germany beginning in the 1930's.

the mass protest movement that erupted seemingly out of nowhere in the past week to shake the Arab world’s most populous nation.

It did not happen just "out of nowhere". Sadly, the "journalists" are avoiding their job by not looking for who is actually organizing this and what their agenda is.

@Alphaape

What you say is fair enough. I am not a fortune teller so cannot predict the future. However, I base my opinions on historical events. One thing is for sure. USA does more harm than good in the Middle East. USA´s credibility cannot get lower than it already is. The level of depravity, corruption, tyranny and repression is due to U.S. support. They have been aiding corrupt dictators, turned countries into living hell holes. People in the Middle East are not stupid. They know that the US government is not to be trusted.

Today while events unfolded in Egypt and national security staff met in the White House, President Obama attended his daughter's basketball game. But any detrimental turn in the crisis will be blamed on Bush, so why worry if this president is up to the tasks of the office he holds?

The Muslim Brotherhood's core belief remains the creation of an Islamic state in Egypt which will be based on religious faith and not citizenship rights and governed by religious law and not civil law. Hardly what most peope are imagining when they think of the word 'reform'.

I say replace him with the character imitating him on this past Saturday Night Live. The people would be rolling on the ground laughing, and all would calm down respectively.

Arafat was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood as well as the Ayatollah Kohmenin.

Yasir Arafat was never a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. It is utterly ludicrous to claim that Khomeini was a member since he was a Shiite and the Brotherhood was formed to advance Sunni Islam.

Before you come with more non sense, may I suggest you actually study what the Muslim Brotherhood is about by going directly to their web page? Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt embrace democracy and supports a multi religious Egypt.

@paultaylor: you can believe what you want. All I am saying is that I hope that you save this post, and we will see when the dust settles on how Egypt will come out of this. I am betting that it will not bode well for them, when Muslim Brotherhood takes control.

Only in the eyes of a racist is this a bad thing.

And, just becuase someone doesn't agree with your viewpoint, does not make them a racist. Did I make any racist comments or say anything bad against them because of their race? Look closely and you will see that I didn't.

That is a typical libral ploy, try to throw out the race card as a trump. Well, I didn't say anything racist and just because I don't agree with their philosophy doesn't make me one. If by your reasoning, I could say that you and the Brotherhood are racist, since obviously you don't seem to agree with my viewpoints.

Stick to the topic, if someone has an opinion different than yours, racism has nothing to do with it. Be able to defend your point, and leave the racist baiting at home.

Just a quick google search came with this.

Prominent Egyptian Muslims, including leaders of the outlawed Muslim Brotherhood , rallied yesterday to defend their country's Christian minority after threats from an al Qa'eda-linked group in Iraq.

Right winged racists like to go on with a smear campaign in order to white wash their own hideous crimes against humanity, oppression, suppression of free speech. Before you come with more non sense, may I suggest you actually study what the Muslim Brotherhood is about by going directly to their web page? Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt embrace democracy and supports a multi religious Egypt. Only in the eyes of a racist is this a bad thing. Extremism is extremism whether it is from Al Qaida or USA. They share more similarities than differences.

you completely missed the point of Paulataylor's post and once again go on to label an entire group based on a couple of people.

@smithinjapa: I'll say your comments have some credibility when I see people from the left stop doing the same thing about the Tea Party, and other right wing commentators.

Muslim Brotherhood was behind the assasination of Sadat. Quite naturally the man who took over after him would want to keep them out of the picture. Sure I named two persons, but you didn't offer any comments on that they were misunderstood or brought peace and harmony to their countries.

Show me what the Muslim Brotherhood has done for the good of society.

Alphaape: "Arafat was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood as well as the Ayatollah Kohmenin. So I don't think that they are such the nice people their website claims to be."

Typical response: two people you can point out were a member of the Brotherhood, so therefore the entire Brotherhood is not as nice as their website claims to be. Did those two write the website themselves? Come on, bro... you completely missed the point of Paulataylor's post and once again go on to label an entire group based on a couple of people.

I could list a couple of Christians who have committed terrorist acts, but that in no way entitles me to make judgements on the entire Christian community; or even the particular denomination they belong to.

Paulataylor: "Right winged American extremists should learn to differentiate between various Islamist organizations instead of labeling it all under one."

You make a very good point, but we are talking about (American) extremists here: they are no different from any other kind of extremist, including those that commit terrorist acts. In the case of the extremists you refer to, they simply switch off any and all rational thought if the letters: lmmsui appear in the order Muslim; same as they switch off their brains if something starts with the word 'social' (oddly enough excluding the word 'society'). An extremist is an extremist -- but don't expect an extremist to acknowledge that.

At any rate Mubarak has to go. He will be forced out, one way or the other (by the people), and the sooner he's gone the better, because if literally forced out it'll be easier for a single group to solidify power. Regardless of any person's view on the Muslim Brotherhood, they need to be involved directly in talks about a new government; I don't think they should be in sole power, necessarily.

In the context of neocolonialism’s racist campaign focused on Muslims and Islam western right winged extremists will keep on labeling Muslim Brotherhood as terrorists.

Arafat was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood as well as the Ayatollah Kohmenin. So I don't think that they are such the nice people their website claims to be. Also, it was the Brotherhood who assasinated Sadat for his work with ending the war between Egypt and Israel.

Al Jazeera rocks, as usual.

The dictator is 82. I can't imagine the US hasn't done work on succession planning already.

he cant go until the US lines up the next compliant dictator...

Muslim Brotherhood has been defending Christians in Egypt when they have been coming under attack by violent people. They are also the ones who have strongly criticized any form of violence towards any other people with a different religious beliefs than Islam. On their web page you can read their various statements. In the context of neocolonialism’s racist campaign focused on Muslims and Islam western right winged extremists will keep on labeling Muslim Brotherhood as terrorists. Instead Americans choose to support and aid corrupt ruthless dictators.

From Muslim Brotherhood´s official English page.

The Muslim Brotherhood is the worldsoldest,largest,and most influential Islamist organization. It is also the most controversial, condemned by both conventional opinion in the West and radical opinion in the Middle East. Jihadists loathe the Muslim Brotherhood (known in Arabic as al-Ikhwan al-Muslimeen) for rejecting global jihad and embracing democracy. These positions seem to make them moderates, the very thing the United States, short on allies in the Muslim world, seeks.

Just like other Islamist organization such as Hamas or Hezbollah they embrace democracy. Right winged American extremists should learn to differentiate between various Islamist organizations instead of labeling it all under one. Just as not all Americans are raging violent racist fanatics, some are more moderate than others.

The outlawed Muslim Brotherhood, which wants to establish an Islamist state in Egypt, has made some statements that it was willing to let ElBaradei act as pointman for the movement. But it also appeared to be moving for a more prominent role after lying low when the protests first erupted. Sunday evening, the presence of overtly pious Muslims in the square was conspicuous, suggesting a significant Brotherhood representation. Hundreds performed the sunset prayers. Veiled women prayed separately.

Well there you have it. I hope things turn out well for Egypt, but tell I guess the hardliners will win the day. Yesterday someone posted that this was like the French Revolution. It looks more and more like the Bolshiviek Revolution to me. I hope Egypt doesn't follow down that same path and get a more worse dictator.

Remove evil dictator - Iraq: great idea, Egypt: mmmm,not so fast. Risk destabilizing the country and opening space up for Islamic groups - Iraq: don't worry about it, won't happen, Egypt: worry. Spread the flower of democracy in the middle east - Iraq: great idea, Egypt: that might not be such a good idea. Spend billions on a multi-year war to overthrow evil dictator - Iraq: yes, let's do it! Watch as the public attempts to overthrow evil dictator at no expense to you - Egypt: not sure if this is good, not so fast guys.

In other words US foreign policy is based on geo-political reality. You are working with us or working against us. All the other stuff is just rhetoric to be used when it is useful. That is not a good thing or a bad thing, it is just the reality of how things work. It is OK if some people understand that, problem for the USA is they don't want the reality to be so obvious to everybody. Not a criticism of the US, saying they are in a tough spot here.

Egyptian freedom and democracy,really going up.

Now Mubarak ,Elbaradei,Muslim Brotherhood ,Egypt Police,Egypt Opposition and Egypt People need to,focus on new plan,on how to bring more order ,jobs,justice and prosperity to Egypt .

Despite all the divisions and differences, Egyptians must stay united and peaceful as before,even with all the protests. All Egyptians want the best for Egypt,there is nothing wrong in protests against Mubarak.

New Elections,should be held,to build up a new post-protests govt. Egypt needs to focus,on this new election ,for new govt. Transitional ;present Govt should take care of things,and head towards elections ,for new egypt govt.

How about calling a snap election, say, this coming Sunday February 9? Mubarak would get, what, 10% of the vote?