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EU-Australia trade talks postponed amid submarine dispute

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fury over Canberra's decision to cancel a major French submarine contract.

All contracts can be broken which is why they have penalty clauses for doing so.

France can be as furious as it likes, Australia had every right to change its mind.

If Australia had refused to pay the required compensation then I could understand France getting furious. The security environment had changed since 2016 and if France had not dragged its feet so much and had already developed plans for the Submarines and begun construction of the first one in Adelaide, then it may not have lost the contract.

Now the EU delays negotiations on the free trade agreement to appease the French hurt feelings.

Grow up, big business is for adults not children.

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Diesels are antiques even with a nice paint job.

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So the EU is now wading into the dispute on the behest of the French. You reckon they would have done that if the Aussies had ripped up a Greek or Polish contract?

No, me neither.

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Diesels are antiques even with a nice paint job.

Hardly. Diesel electrics are still the quietest submarines you can build. Nuclear power might give you the advantage of staying submerged indefinitely, but it comes at the cost of never being able to fully shutdown the pumps and motors needed to continuously cool the reactor core. All of these parts create more noise than a battery.

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Come 2030 Australian will not be able to export Zero % to the EU. No way australia will have 100% fleet of EV cars by 2030. Any import into the EU will be face with a tax by the Fleet % of EV in the origin the produce comes from no matter trade talks. IF your produce use in anyway fossil fuels the harder the exceptance into the EU market from any origin in the world. The USA realise this and major USA car maker going into 100% into the EV market. Australia Federal Government have not even invested in a system of charging station. Even If they started now, it still would not be up and running to meet demands. A

I myself have question about the benefit of the pollution of producing EV battery. Why are they only made in India???? I assume the India have very relax pollution regulation. Batteries very heavy congo to transport leaving a bigger fossil fuel foot printed than most produce. Plus to get any benefit from these batteries they must be recharge using reusable energy plus the e-waste. Imagine the toxic substance burner need to get rid of the waste in a friendly manner . You have to dispose of your normal batteries for this very perpose. All this would defeat the benefits I assume by 2030. If you Fleet of EV car can use 100% reusable. Produce and disposal in a green friend manner of the Batteries locally shore the future of EV will be assured. I assume there will be a change over to HV hydrogen energy will be after a short live EV industry.

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Come 2030 Australian will not be able to export Zero % to the EU.

Wow the lies come thick today. The EU will never cease trade with Australia.

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Australia can rest assured that there will be no trade with the EU at all

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The EU will never cease trade with Australia.

Why ? I think that is exactly what this postponement means. Australia canceled a contract after a spit shake and you just don't that in business.

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For a while Australia has been acting in a typical "Aussie" way.

The golden time were rolling.

I think they are going to learn the hard way that being a mate means more than turning up with a good on ya attitude.

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n1k1Today 09:07 pm JST

Australia can rest assured that there will be no trade with the EU at all

France signs contract to build 25 commuter trains worth over 300 mil Euros in Victoria after sub deal was cancelled.

https://www.rfi.fr/en/international/20210920-france-s-alstom-signs-%E2%82%AC300-million-rail-contract-with-melbourne-as-submarine-crisis-deepens

Does that sound like they do not want to trade with Australia?

Strange ideas some people have.

Trade between Australia and the EU will continue as normal and a free trade deal will be signed fairly soon. That is the reality. But doom Sayers will continue to give their baseless opinions of a future of gloom.

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Australia canceled a contract after a spit shake and you just don't that in business.

Such a naive comment. Business contracts are often cancelled for many reasons. To say that you do not cancel a contract ever is just an incorrect statement.

Switzerland has canceled a deal to buy French Rafale Fighters to get US F-35 fighters instead. This has happened since the sub deal was scrapped by Australia.

https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2021/09/344502/after-australia-switzerland-cancels-military-deal-with-france

So I guess the Swiss can also expect to have no more trade with the EU? Perhaps they can trade with Australia instead?

Business will continue for all. It makes money and pays bills and to stop having trade makes no sense at all.

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Australia canceled a contract after a spit shake and you just don't that in business.

Sure you do. (Well-written) Contracts have cancellation clauses built into them, so that both parties know exactly what happens if the contract is canceled.

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France signs contract to build 25 commuter trains worth over 300 mil Euros in Victoria after sub deal was cancelled.

Right.. that is the problem you see , signing something with AUS doesn't really mean much does it .. ??

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Sure you do. (Well-written) Contracts have cancellation clauses built into them, so that both parties know exactly what happens if the contract is canceled.

Maybe yeah if you are Chinese

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Maybe yeah if you are Chinese

What would being Chinese have to do with it? I'm not, and contracts with exit clauses are the standard.

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Such a naive comment. Business contracts are often cancelled for many reasons. To say that you do not cancel a contract ever is just an incorrect statement.

If you can willy-nilly cancel a contract, what is the point of having a contract then ?

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If you can willy-nilly cancel a contract

You can't do it "willy-nilly". That's what the exit clauses are for, so both parties have agreed as to how an early cancellation of contract will be dealt with.

what is the point of having a contract then ?

What am I your MBA teacher or something? Use the Google if you don't know man. It's not like this is a secret, and you're getting all aggressive because it got pointed out that something you didn't know about is very common in the world.

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It seems that there were cost and completion time problems going back years, so that is on France. On the other hand, the contract cancellation could have and should have been communicated in a more timely way. Both countries will get over it. Reuters has more detail:

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/australian-documents-showed-french-submarine-project-was-risk-years-2021-09-21/

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The largest car maker in the EV has issues the new Germany left dominated government with their new direction in which the EU car maker want to head in the future in EV manufacturing. The biggest seller in the EU for EV is Teslar these new plans are on how EV are made. Voltwagon are going fully green reusable emergy to build all their cars and trucks and want the EU to penalise imports that use fossil fuel in manufacturing of these model of EV. This will also close Japan out of the EV market if Voltswagon get it way.

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Right.. that is the problem you see , signing something with AUS doesn't really mean much does it .. ??

Tell that to the US. We contracted to by 72 F-35 and that worked out well for them.

Most contracts are honored, Some are not. This is not peculiar to Australia as it happens in every nation.

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Tell that to the US. We contracted to by 72 F-35 and that worked out well for them.

No you tell that to the EU

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You can't do it "willy-nilly". That's what the exit clauses are for, so both parties have agreed as to how an early cancellation of contract will be dealt with.

What are you talking about ? What exit clauses ? AUS in secret negotiated a better deal with the US and eff-ed France over. Plain and simple.

What am I your MBA teacher or something? Use the Google if you don't know man. It's not like this is a secret, and you're getting all aggressive because it got pointed out that something you didn't know about is very common in the world.

I am not getting aggressive at all. I am merely stating that France and consequently EU has every right to be cross with Australia. Australia imports a lot more from the EU than it exports to the EU. Now it will export less and the price for EU pharma and motor vehicles in AUS will rise until this loss is covered and bridges re-built.

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Australia imports a lot more from the EU than it exports to the EU. Now it will export less and the price for EU pharma and motor vehicles in AUS will rise until this loss is covered and bridges re-built.

False. No Australian exports to the EU have been or will be effected. Your opinion not withstanding, This issue will be forgotten. Australia defended France and it's freedom in two world wars and lost tens of thousands of lives doing so. The weight of who owes who is firmly in Australia's corner. That means more than canceling a military contract for submarines. France knows this. So does the Eu.

What exit clauses ? AUS in secret negotiated a better deal with the US and eff-ed France over. Plain and simple.

France eff-ed itself over by not adhering to the agreement for build time and cost. It was aware of this for years. So your solution was for Australia to allow itself to be eff-ed by France in a contract France had no intention or ability to honor in its original form.

Australia had the right to cancel. it did what was in it's best interest. France throws a hissy fit and some posters just cant wrap their head around the fact that a deal was cancelled.

Australian military deal to manufacture German designed Boxer recon vehicles will continue. German Lynx 41 may win the contract for IFV's as well. Business will continue and France will get over it, as will the EU. Nothing will change what so ever. No matter how much some posters may wish otherwise.

Seems to be a growing trend of anti Australian posts on this site. While criticism is to be expected in some area's for all nations Australia included, the amount of anti Australia sentiment is out of all proportion. I hope it improves.

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This issue will be forgotten.

This issue is actually a big problem for the EU. One could argue even brexit related. It isn't just AUS it is AUS, UK and the US.

Business will continue and France will get over it, as will the EU. Nothing will change what so ever. No matter how much some posters may wish otherwise.

Yes I am sure , a bit overpriced and with advanced payments I don't see why not. The free trade deal however will not happen. France will veto it and that would be the end of it.

Seems to be a growing trend of anti Australian posts on this site. While criticism is to be expected in some area's for all nations Australia included, the amount of anti Australia sentiment is out of all proportion. I hope it improves.

Australia indeed is a very strange country lately.

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The free trade deal however will not happen. France will veto it and that would be the end of it.

No it wont. France wants to sell more wine, cheese manufactured goods to Australia with no tariffs so France will support the free trade deal to help its farmers and businesses. If it does not then Macron will be voted out of office and someone else will get in who votes in favor. The Eu like other trading blocks is looking for more trade partners not less. Trade with less obstructions which is why it, China and most nations continue to look for and sign free trade deals. Life goes on, so does trade.

France once sank a ship in Auckland harbor killing one person in the process. Quite a stink but it did not end trade or even friendship. The relationship with New Zealand was strained for a time but nations move on. They dont forget, but there is no advantage in being stuck on something that can not be changed.

This will pass as well.

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What are you talking about ? What exit clauses ?

I never said there was an exit clause in this contract. I guess we have to review. You said:

Australia canceled a contract after a spit shake and you just don't that in business.

I said:

Sure you do. (Well-written) Contracts have cancellation clauses built into them, so that both parties know exactly what happens if the contract is canceled.

Now, I have not seen this contract, and have no confirmation whether there was an exit clause or not. But I'd be extremely amazed if there wasn't.

AUS in secret negotiated a better deal with the US and eff-ed France over.

That's business mate. It's what exit clauses are for, so companies (or countries in this case) don't get left entirely in the dark when a contract falls apart.

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The EU should be going after the US for undermining the NATO alliance. biden’s cronies in the defense industrial complex called in their chits on biden and viola! The French suddenly got the boot. I would not be surprised if there is a tie to a corporation in Delaware.

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