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EU ministers agree to relocate 120,000 migrants

16 Comments
By DANICA KIRKA and DUSAN STOJANOVIC

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16 Comments
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It's pretty scandalous how they rammed this through despite opposition from so many member states. It's never happened before in the EU on such a sensitive issue. Some countries like Poland seem to have changed their mind at the last minute simply because they saw which way the vote was going, even though their citizens are completely against this.

But even so, this only scratches the surface. The 120,000 is a drop in the bucket when you consider the total number and it only covers those currently at reception centres in Greece and Italy, not the thousands of asylum shoppers already on the move throughout Europe. The fear now is that once they are flown to Estonia or other countries that they don't want to be in, the migrants will just pack up and make their way to Germany and Sweden. Is Germany going to deport them back to Estonia? I guess we will have to wait and see. What a mess.

Apparently there was a clause in the first draft that would have allowed a payment of 6500 euros for each migrant in the quota that a member state refused to take, but that was scuppered by Germany.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

No matter what Merkel and the other "enlightened" EU leaders are saying publicly, they are surely muttering under their breath "Thank god Hungary is willing to take the heat and shut this disaster down."

6 ( +6 / -0 )

"They have to stay in the country they were distributed to"

But nearly all of them only want to go to Germany or Sweden. How smoothly is this plan going to go?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

This sounds almost as forced as the EU constitution plan they even tough most voted against it looks like democracy is taking a nose dive in Europe.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Anyone care to explain how poor countries like Latvia are expected to keep this quota refugees from simply tearing up their papers and going back to Germany thanks to the Schengen zone, and claiming to be a new refugee?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The OECD Migration Policy 'Debate' published 22nd Sept, defines the initial mythology to challenges that present EU states, countries and institutions to asylum requests registered in EU countries.

Humble suggestion firstly scroll to box one: Migrants, refugees, asylum seekers what do these words mean? Terminology in this respect is important, especially the term 'humanitarian migrant'.

An underlining security issue is the fact that only 1/3rd of the 'arrivees' have been processed and that probably just refers to initial fingerprinting without actual confirmation of country of origin. There is no coherent policy on how to enforce or even prevent secondary migration without resorting to stringent boarder controls including effective physical barriers, patrolled 24/7

The Eastern European countries thought the joining the EU project was a route map to the 'land of milk and honey' stretching across a continent, an illusion or delusion in every respect.

An this is what Putin's Russian Federation was frightened off, All that Putin needed to have done was be patient sit back and watch the EU implode. Oh for the benefit of hindsight.

http://www.oecd.org/migration/Is-this-refugee-crisis-different.pdf

0 ( +1 / -1 )

This sounds almost as forced as the EU constitution plan they even tough most voted against it looks like democracy is taking a nose dive in Europe

@Zodiac The primary force is a very real crisis staring Europe in the face.

Your complaint is like crying there is no democracy as bombs rain on your town and war is declared without your vote.

There are tens of thousands of people pouring into Europe and something has to be done other than shoot the lot.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Hardly Czechs, Slovaks, Romanians, Hungarians will implement this decision of EU leaders in their countries.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Democracy is really at the heart of this issue. It's very tempting to be the humanitarian at times like this (everyone wants to do nice things with other people's money) but if your citizens are sending a clear message that they disapprove of your plans, democracy demands that you listen to them rather than thinking about where you will put that future nobel prize. It also doesn't help when you have leaders like Angela Merkel going one step further and acting completely illegally by deciding Germany no longer needs to abide by the Dublin agreement.... only to change her mind few days later.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@M3M3M3 If you have access to some poll indicating the will of the people of these individual countries, I would surely like to see it.

And if it shows a clear majority against the plan, I sure would like to know what alternative plan they voted for.

Cause I hardly think doing nothing is going to be a reasonable option.

This is a crisis. This is what we elect leaders for. The time to squabble in committee was years ago. Its too late now.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

A back ground briefing on the policy issues to UK 2015 General Election, copyright cleared for sharing. J Wadsworth Immigration and the labour Market....

http://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/ea019.pdf

Coupled with his trend analysis, J Wadsworth 'Fears about the adverse consequences of rising immigration have not materialized' polling analysis.

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/generalelection/fears-about-the-adverse-consequences-of-rising-immigration-have-not-materialised/

There's a number of LSE archived country related briefing material, but copyright protected on the platform for redistribution sorry. I will leave you to make your own mind up about Wadsworth opinion.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@Peace Out

If you have access to some poll indicating the will of the people of these individual countries, I would surely like to see it.

Since the deal was only sealed yesterday there aren't any new polls yet. If you want old opinion polls, I'll let you Google 'opinion poll refugees' in each european language if you want. Here is French and Polish to get you off to a good start.

http://www.liberation.fr/politiques/2015/09/12/refugies-en-france-la-mort-d-aylan-n-a-rien-change_1380973

http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/kraj/sondaz-polacy-nie-chca-przyjmowac-uchodzcow/q8tht5

@itsonlyrocknroll

Thanks for the link, especially the one in your previous post. I think it's very true that the economic impact may be positive in the long run, particularly in the case of Germany which needs more workers. But I think migrants who specifically want to live and work the UK because they speak English and who have dreamed about Britain for years might be very different from refugees who are just taking a chance on a random European country where they don't speak the language and are either unable or unwilling to integrate into the culture.

I think people are worried more about integration and cohesion rather than economics and it's something EU leaders can't ignore. I know it's an argument used with every immigrant group in history but I think it's a ligitimate concern this time. People don't want to see this sort of scene played out in their neighbourhood:

https://youtu.be/UoJIDgTKc6k

2 ( +2 / -0 )

rocknroll:

" Coupled with his trend analysis, J Wadsworth 'Fears about the adverse consequences of rising immigration have not materialized' polling analysis. "

Seriously? You know have honor killings, Shariah courts, and shariah-controlled no-go-zones in cities in the UK and other European countries, opinion polls among 2nd and 3rd generation muslim immigrants show broad support for Shariah law, tens of thousands young European passport holders fighting for ISIS, radical mosques all over the continent, and you cling to the dogma that all that is not a problem?

Meanwhile islamists are quite openly stating what this is about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdHg9TADZyA

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Hi WilliB, I was a student at the LSE and a researcher, I chose J Wadsworth because I wanted to present a alternative opinion to my own, integration as you and M3M3M3 have rightly pointed out will be a challenge. what concerns me the most is the forthcoming UK EU referendum. For this first time I can see the UK opting out.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

rocknroll:

" integration as you and M3M3M3 have rightly pointed out will be a challenge. "

Integration of a large muslim population into a non-muslim society is not a "challenge", it is an impossibility. This has never worked before in history, and can not work. What does work is an integration of a non-muslim population into an islamic society, under humiliating dhimmi conditions. And that is what will happen to Europe in the long run, now that Merkel has thrown the gates wide open.

The faulty assumption by your LSE research is that he, like other economists, simply looks at number and considers all people are the same, disregarding the ideology in their heads.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Since the deal was only sealed yesterday there aren't any new polls yet. If you want old opinion polls,

@M3M3M3 Thank you. That pretty clearly shows that a majority in many countries do not favor immigration and while its related, but not the same, taking refugees is also not seen very favorably.

But there is still a crisis happening right now, and elected leaders have to make decisions right now. Leaders have to be mindful that even if the people don't want the refugees, that if they put too much pressure on the refugees to turn back, utilizing methods that will surely become necessary, such as tear gas, bean bags, zip ties and forced relocation, the will of the people may well show they were even MORE against that, and thus, the elected leaders lose their jobs and have a permanently scarred legacy.

Its easy to say you don't want migrants and refugees. But a lot of people who don't want them would surely prefer to have them than see them die. And I am also quite sure a lot would be happy to see them die just so long as they have a politician to blame for it rather than their own reluctance to take refugees.

So anyway, I would support a majority decision that laid out a clear plan of action of what to do in a situation like this. That way, the people have to own the decision. But there is no time to do that now.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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