EU partners warn Johnson against Brexit 'provocations'

The United Kingdom will control everything the E.U. does soon.

Tangerine, Tangerine,

From your link:

In his first statement in the House of Commons since becoming prime minister, Johnson promised to ensure that the 3.2 million EU citizens in the UK can remain after Britain leaves.

He said he wanted to “repeat unequivocally our guarantee to the 3.2 million EU nationals now living and working among us. I thank them for their contribution to our society – and for their patience – and I can assure them that under this government they will have the absolute certainty of the right to live and remain.”

"But afterward, the prime minister’s official spokesman suggested he had not meant to imply that there would be new legislation, or any change to the existing policy."

A small hint for you (it may help your expertise)

The UK is not an oligarchy, or a dictatorship.

Boris is just a Prime Minister; he alone does not have the power to pass and execute legislation.

Boris does not control the Parliament therefore I find it astonish your belief he alone, actually has the power to pass legislation to undo that which the vast majority of the House wants.

@Peeping

You are a real JT 'expert'.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/07/25/boris-johnson-vows-protect-eu-citizens-rights-no-deal-brexit-10458903/

Campaigners say these protections (The European Settlement Scheme) are not legally binding and that some EU countries are looking for a legal guarantee if they are to only protect British citizens rights to stay in Europe.

Hint: The European Settlement scheme is far from water tight, so no, they haven't been guaranteed the right to remain in every circumstance. As you yourself said, Boris has the ability to add fresh legislation to give a cast iron guarantee, which it isn't at this time in a no-deal situation.

@Tangerine,

Read and learn (hopefully)

"What is the EU Settlement Scheme?"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/46937812

All your link states is:

" Boris Johnson has no plans for fresh legislation to safeguard EU citizens’ rights after Brexit, despite repeatedly highlighting the issue during the Tory leadership campaign."

"https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/25/no-plans-new-laws-safeguard-rights-eu-citizens-boris-johnson"

FRESH LEGISLATION; try to find out of the relevance and meaning of this fresh legislation.

Hint: All those already offered Settlement will still have it after this fresh legislation

Then come back.

@Tangerine

"If Boris goes ahead with his plan to give all EU citizens currently living in the UK the right to remain, it will puts a heavy onus on the EU commission to do the same for British people living on the continent"

Why don't you try ( just a bit) to be better informed, instead of spouting lots of non-sense regarding this issue?!

There's NOTHING Boris can do on this issue; EU citizens have already almost ALL been given the right to remain. It's called European Settlement.

Done and dusted, with absolutely not a SINGLE ONE applicant being refused. The UK simply cannot refuse settlement rights to ANYONE European living here for consecutive 5 years.

Boris is jut posturing for the likes of you, who actually believe he (and the UK) can actually force the EU's hand.

This is a fight between a 19 Trillion economy versus a 2.5 Trillion one; any guess who's going to eventually win?

This not a case of Japan v China, where although China's economy is almost double Japan has actually more tech and holds more foreign investment assets than China, therefore Japan can actually hold its own again China; or anybody else, barring the old US of A (but for different reasons here).

Try reading this; it may bring some clarity where seems there's lots of haze:

"Does the EU need us more than we need them?"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46612362

I would like to hear his prediction, instead of nebulous ramblings. If he is that confident, then sure!

Lol, I am volunteering to act as judge in the wager. Wtf says he is putting 100Euros that is approx 12,000yen. I will setup an account and what both of you Wtfjapan and Tangerine2000 need to do is remit

12,000yen into the account.

Do we have a deal here or no deal ?

Lol

@goldorak

I honestly don't. I know they're plenty of europe-loving ppl on both sides (not too many on jt though, eh!?). I just find JT's eng posters (most, not all obviously) incredibly insecure, defensive & ill-informed (again both sides) re EU politics, euro ppl (but also sports, food, euro history etc. am literally lol as it's pretty funny/pathetic tbh).

I honestly don't find this. Most people who comment seem to have a good grasp of current events. There are a handful though, I agree. However, I find there to be quite a few commentators who try to paint those who don't agree with them as "incredibly insecure, defensive & ill-informed".

I dont have anything personally against the UK or EU but Im totally against moronic decisons by people that put heart ahead of brains, and vote because of recalcitrant pride instead of common sense,

same as US farmers voting for Trump look what it got them, but thats a whole new kettle of fish.

Meaning: when people don't vote the way I want them to, I have a hissy fit.

You didn't answer my question. Why Euros? I don't use them. You don't use them. Either wager in £'s or Yen, please. Avoid the question again, and I'll assume you're not brave enough to put your money where your mouth is.

I will take you up on your offer because I can see the exact same attitude 

firstly the GBP will be worth squat if they leave without a deal. I stand by my wagers, that is UK won't be getting free market access to the EU, that is zero tarriffs on their goods exported to the EU, especially if they refuse the free flow of people from the EU also. maybe Boris may get a few extra concessions but the majority of the agreement wont change. without this free market access UK manufacturing is basically doomed, they may still manufacture goods for their domestic market but their exports will slump dramatically without free market access and more so if there is a no deal Brexit. I dont have anything personally against the UK or EU but Im totally against moronic decisons by people that put heart ahead of brains, and vote because of recalcitrant pride instead of common sense, eg most UK citizens in manufacturing voted for Brexit , Brexiteers fooled themselves thinking they could keep all the positives of EU membership and dump all the undesirables. Or did the UK expect to get special treatment and terms that other EU member states arent allowed. seriously what sane person country or Union would accept those terms.

same as US farmers voting for Trump look what it got them, but thats a whole new kettle of fish.

Let there be collision.

It takes confrontation and will power and wisdom to be free and independent.

Ask if "ANY" of the now members of EU are really Free and independent?

Ask if the "Euro" is really the currency that has and still is benefitting the member nations?

HaveEU members become economically dependent and under EU central "control"?

Does it now appear that MONEY.., THE CURRENCY, inevitably controls economies, politics and the people?

So if the Brits want to be free and independent, they need their pound and the control of their own destiny regardless opposition or conflicts and hardships to get it.

Go for it...

May I ask, why are you offering to wager 100 Euros when you aren't from the EU? You do know we use the Pound in the UK, don't you?

I will take you up on your offer because I can see the exact same attitude that those who thought Brexit would never happen, and who also were absolutely convinced Trump would never be elected had.

I can guarantee that you'll go very quiet and pretend you never made the offer when it turns out the situation hasn't developed in the way you have stated.

I understand from you multiple 'lol' comments and the admission you aren't from Europe that you don't know much about the situation. You come across as someone who parrots news headlines.

Adding the word 'lol' before your comment doest add any weight to your argument.

I was laughing at the illusion that you think that Germany makes all the final decisions in the EU, when history has shown it doesnt get its own way, far from it. France and a number of other EU members wont allow a Brexit that only advantageous to Germany and the UK. too many UK jobs and capital to pillage. $1trillion and counting lol

I'm afraid your going to be very disappointed.

im sorry youll be the one disappointed. care to wager that 100euro!? EU holds all the cards they know it, UK wont come out on top the EU will make sure of that. They will make being in the EU more advantageous than not otherwise why would anybody want to stay. Theyre not going to let some recalitrant new PM dictate how they should run their union. Im neither a citizen of the EU or UK but I know a moronic decision when I see it.

@wtf

Adding the word 'lol' before your comment doest add any weight to your argument.

I'm afraid your going to be very disappointed.

@Jimizo

Yes. A general election could have happened if the no confidence motion tabled by Jo Swinson had been supported by Labour. The timetable now from when Parliament ends it's recess in September is not long enough for a GE before Oct 31

It is now too late to hold a General Election before Oct 31 - it is impossible

Are you sure about this? Is ‘impossible’ the right word?

And that is where you are quite wrong, friend. Germany will make the decision and the rest of the EU will just have to like it or lump it.

lol well you clearly havent followed previous EU FTA and some smaller EU member holding up the process in protest. If you think the EU will allow the UK free market access while letting them dispose of the conditions they dont like then Im sorry your delusional, It would be like shooting themselves in the foot. Im prepared to put 100euro down that the UK wont get the free market access it so desires and when the dust settles the EU will gain more jobs and investment than the UK. Its crazy that Brexiteers seem to think that leaving will be more advantageous than staying, the last 2 yrs is just the entree

I really think you need to research this before making so many comments.

It is now too late to hold a General Election before Oct 31 - it is impossible

Parliament has to pass new statute law to stop a no-deal, but again, that's is now highly unlikely because there isn't time.

The only thing MPs can do is revoke Article 50, but again, this is probably not going to happen because they don't have the numbers in the Commons. Too many Labour MPs (who are remainers) have already said they won't revoke it.

Boris has to convince all EU members not just Germany,

And that is where you are quite wrong, friend. Germany will make the decision and the rest of the EU will just have to like it or lump it.

Honda stated very clearly that their decision had no connection to brexit.

and if you read the article Brexit was one of many reason why they closed shop even with their claims.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/feb/21/honda-european-chief-outlined-no-deal-brexit-concerns-in-2018

@tangerine, fair enough.

Many people assume that British people who support Brexit are anti Europe, 

I honestly don't. I know they're plenty of europe-loving ppl on both sides (not too many on jt though, eh!?). I just find JT's eng posters (most, not all obviously) incredibly insecure, defensive & ill-informed (again both sides) re EU politics, euro ppl (but also sports, food, euro history etc. am literally lol as it's pretty funny/pathetic tbh). I've actually never experienced this in real life, not in eng, nor on euro/oz soil (even twitter, eng news forums etc are more balanced). Maybe it's not an english-thing though (bitter/older expats perhaps? dunno really)

Anyway, don't make it sound like the EU's THE pbm here (& that euros/EU pollies etc are the UK's b**ch), you know/should know it isn't true.

People in Europe never say "Euros". Im guessing that's an Australian/American term?

Some do (online abbrev perhaps).

Of course they have. The deal was created by the EU, for the EU. But that deal is dead now. So, if the EU refuse to negotiate, they'll lose out.

who said its dead , Boris. LOL nobody wants a no-brexit deal but make no mistake UK will suffer the most, and theyll blink first. Im predicting Boris will fail and an election will be called from his failure. Boris has to convince all EU members not just Germany, France is a staunch supporter of the deal and the EU , goodluck Boris hes going to need it.

and yet theyve already agreed to the deal they put in place along with the other EU members

Of course they have. The deal was created by the EU, for the EU. But that deal is dead now. So, if the EU refuse to negotiate, they'll lose out.

just stating what nearly all manufacturers are worried about about Brexit. Honda has already decided to close up shop in the UK

Those really aren't good examples to use. Nissan is shutting up shop all over the world because of what is happening back home. Honda stated very clearly that their decision had no connection to brexit.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-honda-europe/honda-uk-plant-closure-not-related-to-brexit-europe-boss-idUSKCN1Q80RZ

Toyota have increased investment in the UK and have gone ahead with the production of new models in the UK plants

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/20/toyota-team-up-with-suzuki-to-build-hybrid-cars-in-uk

You really don't sound like you know what has happened.

October 31 is coming up quickly.

The Great Pumpkin shall rise out of the pumpkin patch and smash the Brexiteers!

The UK already has a sweet deal with the EU: full membership while keeping its own currency, enjoying a rebate, and a host of other privileged exceptions.

I've yet to hear a convincing account of how we benefit by leaving. A lot of the things leavers believe about the EU are inspired by 牛糞 news stories (fake news in the real sense), particular the articles penned in the early 1990s by the Daily Telegraph's EU correspondent, who went on to play a key role in the Brexit referendum campaign and seems to have now become prime minister.

well the EU have already stated that the deal is not changeable theyre prepared to sit with the agreement already in place and the EU memeber have all agreed on it, what is Boris going to do to change all their minds.

they know there will be pain but they also know the long term gains from investment and jobs relocating to the EU will make up for it. Your and my opinion really doesnt matter .

After the US, the UK is Germany's largest trading partner. So, if they lose their most valuable customer in Europe, it will have a devastaing effect on their economy.

and yet theyve already agreed to the deal they put in place along with the other EU members

Really don't know why you bothered bringing up Nissan after the articles that have been on this website over the last couple of days. just stating what nearly all manufacturers are worried about about Brexit. Honda has already decided to close up shop in the UK

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/feb/21/honda-european-chief-outlined-no-deal-brexit-concerns-in-2018

@wtf

lol if theyre unwilling then theyll lose their jobs and give them to Europeans in the EU,

You didn't read my comment carefully. The staff who are refusing to leave London ARE non-British staff.

46% of UK exports to the EU = £289 billion

8% of EU exports to the UK = £345 billion

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7851

In actual fact, the UK exports to the EU are not 46% because it also includes the Rotterdam Effect, so it is probably a few percentage points lower. But all in all, the UK buys a lot more than it sells to the EU.

Please note too, that the report says:

"EU tariffs are generally low but are high on some goods, especially agricultural products."

After the US, the UK is Germany's largest trading partner. So, if they lose their most valuable customer in Europe, it will have a devastaing effect on their economy.

Really don't know why you bothered bringing up Nissan after the articles that have been on this website over the last couple of days.

https://japantoday.com/category/business/nissan-to-axe-12-500-jobs-after-q1-profit-drops-98.5

Most businesses located in the City of London have already visited Frankfurt and stated that they are unwilling to move.

lol if theyre unwilling then theyll lose their jobs and give them to Europeans in the EU,

business will go where they can maximise profits, staff are replaceable, sad facts of capitalism

but there'll be many angry Europeans who will lose jobs because of the intransigence of the EU.

just as many new jobs will be created when all those UK factories relocate to the EU. EU has all the cards and they know it why should they cowtow to the UK in that position. The EU will make being in the EU more advantageous than not otherwise why would anybody want to stay and rightly so. The pain has just started for the UK. Bumbling Boris wont make much of a difference than previous PM

But in my opinion, the EU has to negotiate in order to protect the jobs of millions of Europeans (e.g. 

EU market accounts for about 44% of all UK exports while the EU exports to the UK account for about 8%. when tarriffs are applied UK manufacturers wont have much choice but to relocate to the EU to take advantage to the free market. The job gains and business investment within the EU will more than make up for loss in exports also the UK has to convince all EU members not just Germany. Already about $1 trillion in capital from the financial sector has left the UK and thats not even counting manufacturing. Airbus said it would leave the UK if no deal is made, Nissan Honda Toyota etc well you know where thats going also. Make no mistake the UK will suffer the most from Brexit.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/07/investing/brexit-banks-moving-assets/index.html

@wipeout

By the way, I forgot....extending Brexit isn't a concession. The EU wanted it. I was surprised that Macron was being inflexible about it, but he acquiesced.

@wtfjapan

When all those UK jobs and capital is relocated to the EU market then the Brexiteers will understand the true implications of their actions.

Most businesses located in the City of London have already visited Frankfurt and stated that they are unwilling to move. They have had trouble convincing staff (who are not British btw) to move out of London.

@wipeout

*that describes the whole of the negotiation from the British side, where we constantly went it with demands that the EU had already stated were unacceptable, and where we frittered away most of the *negotiating period

They're not obliged to make concessions, merely to smooth the way to an exit for Britain that doesn't at the same time cause undue damage to themselves

Why do you call it a negotiation, and say they don't have to negotiate?

The EU has an obligation to negotiate. It cannot expect to just sit there naming its own terms and want a successful outcome. There are some who will say, but that's exactly what the EU has the right to do.

But in my opinion, the EU has to negotiate in order to protect the jobs of millions of Europeans (e.g. Car manufacturers in Germany being one big one) who will be affected by Brexit. It's all well and good just sitting there cutting your own nose off to spite your face, but there'll be many angry Europeans who will lose jobs because of the intransigence of the EU.

Can you please name one concession that the EU has made during these negotiations.

why should the EU make concessions, they want being in the EU more advantageous that not. The UK make its decision to leave and they can take the disadvantages that go with leaving. When all those UK jobs and capital is relocated to the EU market then the Brexiteers will understand the true implications of their actions.

@goldorak

I am from the UK, so I am European. People in Europe never say "Euros". Im guessing that's an Australian/American term?

I have many friends from around the continent and have studied/spoke many of the languages. But, I regret to say that because of a lack of use, I can't remember much anymore. I can happily say though, that I have travelled around much of Europe and look forward to visiting again.

Many people assume that British people who support Brexit are anti Europe, but this is not true. This mainly happens because they conflate the EU (which is 27 countries) with Europe (which is 52 countries).

EU: So, you want to leave? Pay £39 billion, continue to pay £15 billion every year after, have a backstop in Northern Ireland which means that it is under EU rule, give all EU citizens lifetime visas. Oh, and you can't make any of your own free trade agreements for time immemorial.

UK: Erm, that doesn't work for us.

EU: You are so unreasonable. This is the only way you can leave.

UK: No thanks. How about we do some of the things you want, and why don't we try to meet in the middle on some others?

EU: You are so unreasonable! No, no, no. (With lots of foot stomping)

Nice creative writing... haven't met many euros have you? Ever been there? Lived there? Do you speak any euro language (other than eng)? Read/watch euro media/news?

The quickest and cleanest way to end the political gridlock is to chuck Boris's Brexit toys out of his pram by revoking article 50. There, sorted!

The main issue here is that Britain is no longer the empire it once was, but as many other nations that once where powerful they still think they are an empire.

Since Thatcher people in the U.K. became more poorer and want to go back. Unfortunately they do not realise that being a member of the EU is their best protection.

Politicians like Boris and Reese-Mogg play on these feelings for their own selfish interests.

EU will not give in to that as it would open the door to other countries to play a simular game.

I fear for the British working class as they will pay the price for it.

The UK has nothing further to lose. Johnson can either improve on May's deal with the EU or keep it. He cant do any worse than a no deal that was already on the cards. The EU wants to keep the UK military involved with the EU after the split. As one of the premier military powers of Europe, that may be the linchpin that Johnson can use for a better deal.

From what EU officials have said, the tone from the British government has been more assertive. Juncker also stated that Boris' tone in their phone call was "combative". This is excellent. In a negotiation, you have to be assertive and combative. Basically, the EU is saying "We aren't getting our own way anymore, and we don't like it".

If Boris goes ahead with his plan to give all EU citizens currently living in the UK the right to remain, it will puts a heavy onus on the EU commission to do the same for British people living on the continent. We're almost at the point of:

EU: So, you want to leave? Pay £39 billion, continue to pay £15 billion every year after, have a backstop in Northern Ireland which means that it is under EU rule, give all EU citizens lifetime visas. Oh, and you can't make any of your own free trade agreements for time immemorial.

UK: Erm, that doesn't work for us.

EU: You are so unreasonable. This is the only way you can leave.

UK: No thanks. How about we do some of the things you want, and why don't we try to meet in the middle on some others?

EU: You are so unreasonable! No, no, no. (With lots of foot stomping)

At some point I really should start following this story. October 31 is coming up quickly.

Brexit has swallowed two Prime Ministers already.

The EU has Britain in its mouth. The Brexiters had better get Britain out of there. Screw the globalists in Brussels.

Brexit has swallowed two Prime Ministers already. As powerful as the the UK is and likes to believe it is, it doesn’t have enough bargaining power to move the EU. So whatever Johnson promises and thinks he will be able to get accomplished, he needs to throw that out and look at the reality of the situation.

Get on with it. This is tiresome playground competition.

Johnson is probably just posturing and will end up trying to force May's deal through, probably under a different name and this time without the "she's a Remainer!" smell. He can do it with the good ol' "There Is No Alternative" as a tribute to Margaret Thatcher. The only way no deal happens is with another referendum or a General Election. Johnson simply doesn't have enough MPs to force no deal through without going to the people.

The whole jolly bumbling "Boris" character is itself a creation, so I wouldn't pay so much attention to what he says. I would focus instead on how Johnson himself can come out of the current situation best. He is not a man of principals, so it is pointless considering options from an ideological viewpoint. I reckon the best way to proceed is to keep the so-called backstop but rename it something else. If the right-wing press get on board and claim its a huge negotiating victory, the people will fall in line.

Coveney is correct. It will not end well for Johnson.

His type is the typical old Etonian, thinks they were born to lead and harangue.

The EU has spoken its final word, an agreement was concluded and now it will only make concessions to the UK, playing for time, if it can thereby achieve its ultimate goal of driving a stake through the heart of the Tory Brexit unicorn.

What a privileged and wasteful life politicians lead, when they are able to rehash the same problem again and again and again for months and months and months on end!

All the while, living off the back of their tax payers.