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EU agrees on massive Ukraine aid deal in 'message' to Putin

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By Max DELANY

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Good news for Ukraine. Support is strong in the EU, as it is in the US, for Ukraine's defence of Putin's imperial war of aggression.

15 ( +27 / -12 )

Nice!

15 ( +24 / -9 )

Excellent, keep it up. Russia must learn you can't just go about annexing smaller neighboring countries.

16 ( +26 / -10 )

ps Suck it, Orban!

14 ( +22 / -8 )

EU agrees on massive Ukraine aid deal in 'message' to Putin

European Union leaders on Thursday overcame months of opposition from Hungarian leader Viktor Orban to agree 50 billion euros ($54 billion) of aid for Ukraine, in a move they hailed as a strong message to Russia.

Those expensive message just will be flushed into corruption web in Ukraine, thanks to Euro tax payer money.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/commentary/2023/09/17/world/ukraine-corruption-zelenskyy/

-19 ( +9 / -28 )

Money up in smoke, and into the corrupt clutches of Ukraine.

It will make no difference to the outcome.

Sorry for the long sufferring citizens of EU, and the many more Ukrainian soldiers who are doomed.

-23 ( +9 / -32 )

Pumping billions into a corrupt black hole to prop up a doomed economy. This is false economics in a false economy 101. We've seen this movie before.

This isn't arms or training an army; this meeting was less a vision of the future for the proxy war and more of a feel-good-group-therapy session designed to boost their flagging ego.

The Eurozone is teetering on the edge of recession with farmers, truckers and workers protesting all across the continent, inflation, high energy prices and more.

The Brussels elite have shot themselves in both feet. Proved they are B-grade at blackmail for a lost cause is about all. Kyiv is an albatross around the EU neck and it will take them all down. Amazing that it is self-inflicted too.

Years from now, Orban will be proved correct. You can bank on it.

-16 ( +10 / -26 )

Money up in smoke

In the form of smoldering Russian military equipment.

13 ( +23 / -10 )

Money up in smoke

Well yeah, that's supposed to happen. What do you think happens when another T-90 gets blown up?

If Trump were the president of USA

You're right. There probably wouldn't have been a war, because he'd gift wrap Ukraine and just give it to Ukraine. See, the world would be more peaceful if we all just give the bullies what they want.

13 ( +22 / -9 )

To Russia*

7 ( +14 / -7 )

sakurasuki

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/commentary/2023/09/17/world/ukraine-corruption-zelenskyy/

That article is quite informative and contradicts the posters here who say there was a CIA coup in 2014:

*If that seems a stretch, recall that Vladimir Putin began his attack on Ukraine not in February 2022, but in February 2014, when he sent unmarked troops to annex Crimea and then orchestrated an armed insurgency in the eastern Donbas region. He made those decisions because protesters had toppled Ukraine’s Russia-friendly president, Viktor Yanukovych, and Putin saw the country slipping from his control.*

*The protests began after Yanukovych, under pressure from Moscow, reneged on signing a trade deal with the European Union and proposed instead aligning with Putin’s alternative, the Eurasian Union. The protesters who spent the next months risking their lives on Kyiv’s central Independence Square feared their chance for a different way of life was evaporating, to be replaced with a future ruled by men like Yanukovych who literally bathed in the fruits of corruption — his gilded bathrooms are now museum displays in what used to be a palace.*

7 ( +17 / -10 )

Wasting more money in Kyiv regime lost war???..

Silly Europe...

-17 ( +8 / -25 )

Wasting more money in Kyiv regime lost war???.. 

Silly Europe...

Can’t argue that.

-21 ( +7 / -28 )

Wow! Another "game changer". Ukraine's teachers, doctors, and trash collectors will get paid. Also those in power can pad their overseas bank accounts a little more.

-13 ( +8 / -21 )

EU globalists funding the doomed proxy war while their own peoples protest against their own policies that are impoverishing their own people. Fool's Errand writ LARGE.

-13 ( +8 / -21 )

EU agrees on massive Ukraine aid deal in 'message' to Putin

The title of the article is serious or satire; you tell me. The substance of the article is definitely tragedy with a touch of comedy.

I'm sure Putin is shaking in his boots right now at this 'message' and getting ready to raise the white flag.

Still trying to decipher the message but it goes something like this; we can print large amounts of money and pump it into a corrupt economy at our own expense and to our detriment and there's nothing you can do it about it.

Since this article deals with economies, the IMF released some interesting forecasts for certain economies just the other day. With Russia they revised the prediction for economic growth this year up, from 1.1% to 2.6% (with a further upwards revision quite possible). The big economies of Europe - Germany stagnating with UK, France in decline.

-14 ( +6 / -20 )

Wasting more money in Kyiv regime lost war???..

Seems like sinking yet another capital ship of the Black Sea “fleet” and denying Russia a single strategic objective shows what a lie this is.

The Russians will continue to die in droves until the quit or get driven out.

Boo Hoo….

8 ( +15 / -7 )

Ad I said the other day, bullies always cave in when confronted by someone more powerful. Orban got his bluff called and looks like a fool now

12 ( +17 / -5 )

John

Wasting more money in Kyiv regime lost war???..

Seems like sinking yet another capital ship of the Black Sea “fleet” and denying Russia a single strategic objective shows what a lie this is.

The Russians will continue to die in droves until the quit or get driven out.

Boo Hoo….

Indeed, as the Economist writes, Russia is losing the battle for the Black Sea with an opposition that doesn't have a navy:

https://www.economist.com/europe/2024/01/28/russia-is-losing-the-battle-for-the-black-sea

11 ( +17 / -6 )

Some people really post some early April-fool's jokes.

"If Trump ....."

"Whitewash ..."

"Corrupt black hole"

..... and so on.

People still listen too much to cheap Russian and MAGA propaganda!

Ukraine will get the support from the EU!

And soon Ukraine will get those billions in frozen Russian assets, too.

By the way, heard about that other Russian ship that became a submarine?

A country with no real navy taking care of those great Russian naval forces!

How many so far?

Ukraine prevails!

10 ( +17 / -7 )

"Russia cannot count on any fatigue from Europeans in their support for Ukraine."

The above quote makes it sound like the anti-west, anti-democracy, pro-authoritarian folks won't get their wish any time soon of the Russian Federation's brand of fascism warmongering its way throughout Europe to Portugal. RF stay within your own sovereign borders and leave all sovereign nations alone to deal with their own issues using their own system's principles. RF's principles have been shown to benefit the warmongering kleptocrat-in-chief and his oligarchs, while resulting in the deaths of - who knows how many Russian citizens - forced to fight in wars that have been of benefit only to the kleptocrat and oligarchs. Has Russia admitted publicly to how many Russianss have been killed in Putin's failing territorial quest?

9 ( +12 / -3 )

You know, the thing that those of you on the sides of the authoritarians don’t understand is that democracy always takes a long ass time to get seemingly anything done. This is because it is important to gain consensus among the various stakeholders. It also helps to have a more collaborative mindset to get these kinds of things done.

While things may get done “quicker” in an authoritarian state, they get done better in a democracy. We like it that way. Power that is much more widely distributed (amongst all of us) is a lot harder to seize by bad actors.

13 ( +15 / -2 )

JohnToday  07:57 am JST

If you call a 1970s designed corvette, built in the 1980, a "capital ship", then I guess that is true. Without checking there's some 20+ active - with others laid up.

The missile attack on Crimea - Belbek airfield - got stopped in its tracks.

-14 ( +4 / -18 )

Once the Ukraine aid was agreed, leaders turned more to the question of the future of EU military support for Kyiv.

So not military aid?

Anyway good for them they would have secured Ukraine's harvests for themselves at least

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

Give it two months before they come back begging for more.

-11 ( +4 / -15 )

WW2 was over in June 1944 when the allies opened up a second front by landing in Normandy. It took almost a year to finish it and the deadliest month for American soldiers in Europe was April 1945.

The Russia-Ukraine war is over. It might take another year to end it and a lot of human suffering with a lot of dead soldiers on both sides but it is over. This new tranche of cash will just slightly delay the outcome and increase the human suffering and deaths. It is long past time for NATO to cut bait and seek some sort of stable peace.

-11 ( +4 / -15 )

Good, putin need to end this stupid war now!

10 ( +12 / -2 )

A lot of sulking here today.

Globalists, proxy war, corruption etc.

All the hits.

8 ( +14 / -6 )

proxy

It is long past time for NATO to cut bait and seek some sort of stable peace.

They are seeking peace. That's why they approved 50 billion euros to go to Ukraine.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

The EU showing it has more "cojones" than the former Repub now Putin Appeasement Party in the US...

11 ( +16 / -5 )

UChosePoorlyToday  08:29 am JST

Salty Russians today.

JimizoToday  08:46 am JST

A lot of sulking here today.

Ah, yes! I love the smell of Russian tears in the morning!

11 ( +16 / -5 )

Not my money this time, but I am glad that an agreement was made. Where there is a will, there is a way!

Nobody should have any problems with this:

We need to closely monitor the details of the compromise because the EU does not need to show that it accepted Orban’s demands, given how sensitive an issue the rule of law remains,” Tzogopoulos, the European Institute lecturer, said.

Hungary was indeed offered some concessions in exchange for its support, in the form of an opportunity to veto the spending deal next year if Ukraine fails to live up to its conditions.

Those conditions require Ukraine to uphold “effective democratic mechanisms”, such as multi-party parliamentary democracy, the rule of law and respect for minorities.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

They could have taken down Putin's regime for less than $20m before entire cities were bombed to dust. Instead they are paying billions for a forever war as Ukraine gets progressively trashed.

-14 ( +0 / -14 )

*Ukraine faces a $43bn budget deficit this year and expects the EU aid will cover just under half of it*

Knew their economy has gone full basket base but that is off the charts.

Who is going to cover the other half? What happens next year? What do they, including Orban, know, that we don't? Who is doing the accounting?

Half of that figure is ballpark half of the entire aid package, which is meant for four years.

More questions than answers. No wonder this package is intentionally vague and economical with facts and figures (excuse the pun) because these numbers don't add up.

If you have more details please share.

-14 ( +1 / -15 )

EU Politicians approval ratings continue to slide, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz down to 20% approval now with latest polling, Sunak and Macron at 27% and 24%.

It's clear EU leaders falling on the 'sword' politically to support Ukraine. Highly regarded Morning Consult survey results in below link, for ending Jan. As most EU voters oppose further Ukraine military funding $support.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/

Biden's 37% approval, 55% disapproval, 8% undecided, so he's MUCH more popular than leading EU Pol's!

-14 ( +2 / -16 )

Who is going to cover the other half?

Where else could it come from?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

EU Politicians approval ratings continue to slide, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz down to 20% approval now with latest polling, Sunak and Macron at 27% and 24%.

Newsflash - The UK is no longer in the EU.

More paper and crayons. Sunak’s popularity has taken a nosedive for many reasons. The Ukraine situation is not high up on the s##tlist.

Macron’s popularity is hardly the historical low you claim it to be. Try looking up Hollande.

This narrative that it’s all down to Ukraine is Carlsonesque in its childishness.

It has no place is serious discussions.

15 ( +17 / -2 )

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/el/qanda_23_3353

Found the EU "details" on this - it's all a bunch of sentences that reads like a high school humanities essay, excessively abstract and devoid of facts and figures - and I'm more confused after reading it than I was at the start. The use of jargon to explain away those things called details is incomprehensible.

Did I just read about a 50 billion, 4 year aid package?

Who came up with this?

The aid program is called the Ukraine Facility (or the 'Facility').

Did they already use up the other names?

-16 ( +1 / -17 )

One must keep in mind, it's critical weapons supply chain issues and military manpower shortages that most trouble Ukraine on the battlefield.

Money does little to solve above battlefield issues., Any foreign financial support only constitutes small fraction of their former real economy, people becoming more and more destitute as its destroyed and depopulates daily.

Ukrainians know their Parliament\s lost interest in further troop mobilizations, death of their citizenry, and a peace agreement needed ASAP. Foreign Govt. support's fickle (Scholz, Macron, Sunak, Biden = Toast), Ukraine's young people see no point in throwing their lives away.

-11 ( +2 / -13 )

https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/document/download/d122882f-599b-4158-8a6b-583f5cfdfb77_en

Look at this! Here is the "fact sheet" attached to the "facility".

It's a C-grade power point job totally devoid of anything factual.

-16 ( +1 / -17 )

The posters who claimed it was not a US problem and called for Europe to do more seem disappointed that Europe are now doing more. Odd.

11 ( +15 / -4 )

One wonders, what did PM Orban extract for his vote?

Keep in mind Ukraine's economy in 2021 was approx. $550 Billion, so $54 Billion over 4 years, well that's about 2.5% of their former economy for the next 4 years. Better than nothing, but hardly the good old days!

-11 ( +4 / -15 )

For what it's worth I'm sure the US and Europe will come up with the money to support Ukraine's economy and reconstruction no matter what.

but what about military support?

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Japan and China and others will surely chip in also

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Any who says political favorability has no place in such discussions is delusional. EU politicians and PM Sunak counts as supporter in Europe are all spending THEIR LIMITED Political Capital on Ukraine with this $funding.

That's serious and not sustainable. They'll all pay heavy price for their continued Ukraine support. At least for those who believe in validity of political approval ratings and European voters views about continued Ukraine Support.

-13 ( +1 / -14 )

HopeSpringsEternal

That's serious and not sustainable. They'll all pay heavy price for their continued Ukraine support.

No they don't. The people of Europe support Ukraine.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

What did Orban extract for his vote? Excellent question.

Most articles suggest nothing but a vague two year oversight commitment. All the EU top dogs are falling over each other by insisting he got nothing. That right there is hint he got something - suspect he has to keep it under wraps as a condition. Also reports indicate Orban and his team are pleased and in good spirits which is another indicator (the photo too). If he was upset, we would know about it.

Read that they have basically put in train the unlocking of funds to Hungary - they are doing it in the typical Brussels way of camouflaging it behind a facade of EU-speak while they stick to the narrative of Orban "caving", congratulate themselves and backslap each other.

-13 ( +2 / -15 )

All the EU top dogs are falling over each other by insisting he got nothing. That right there is hint he got something - suspect he has to keep it under wraps as a condition.

Oooh a conspiracy. How unusual. I’m sure you of all people can get to the bottom of it.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

2020hindsightsToday  09:52 am JST

HopeSpringsEternal

That's serious and not sustainable. They'll all pay heavy price for their continued Ukraine support.

No they don't. The people of Europe support Ukraine.

They just don't support their Pol's $spending on Ukraine, if one believes polling. Ukraine's #1 issue in Europe, their Politicians all deeply unfavorable. EU voters just see more inflation, no path to victory, escalation risk etc.

Everyone's sympathetic for Ukraine, Gaza too, but that's it.

Ditto US, Ukraine's big loser with public that wants Govt. spending to focus on THEM, not Ukrainian pension payments!

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

> JJEToday  09:54 am JST

What did Orban extract for his vote? Excellent question.

Most articles suggest nothing but a vague two year oversight commitment. All the EU top dogs are falling over each other by insisting he got nothing. That right there is hint he got something - suspect he has to keep it under wraps as a condition. Also reports indicate Orban and his team are pleased and in good spirits which is another indicator (the photo too). If he was upset, we would know about it.

Read that they have basically put in train the unlocking of funds to Hungary - they are doing it in the typical Brussels way of camouflaging it behind a facade of EU-speak while they stick to the narrative of Orban "caving", congratulate themselves and backslap each other.

Call it the EU ND, nice EU budgetary negotiation analysis. Seems PM Orban's tough cookie.

Same EU ND in place regarding true Ukrainian situation both on and off the battlefield. Moscow knows Ukrainian youth has no appetite for war, they're lovers no fighters.

Ben Franklin had it right, variety is the spice of life!

-13 ( +1 / -14 )

Good for the EU!

8 ( +10 / -2 )

HopeSpringsEternalToday  09:15 am JST

EU Politicians approval ratings continue to slide, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz down to 20% approval now with latest polling, Sunak and Macron at 27% and 24%.

It's clear EU leaders falling on the 'sword' politically to support Ukraine. Highly regarded Morning Consult survey results in below link, for ending Jan. As most EU voters oppose further Ukraine military funding $support.

I do not think that Macron's unpopularity has much to do with Ukraine. Macron was already extremely unpopular before the start of the Ukraine war. And he became even more so with the pension reform.

Actually, as of December 56 % of French continue to be in favor of maintaining support to Ukraine (23% opposed and 21 % without opinion).

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Fantastic news.

The EU knows, from painful experience, that appeasing dictators never works, and that it must never make the same mistakes again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_agreement

The Russian troll farms are working overtime today in a desperate attempt to spin this one.

8 ( +12 / -4 )

The Republicans who came up with the idea of connecting new immigration laws with military aid to Ukraine should be given a medal . . . from the Kremlin.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

@JJE,

Here is Orban himself on X. 

You rely on Orban's twitter feed for news? Comedy gold comrade!

7 ( +10 / -3 )

A win for Orban, Budapest and Hungarians.

Also, great news!

5 ( +7 / -2 )

stormcrowToday  10:24 am JST

The Republicans who came up with the idea of connecting new immigration laws with military aid to Ukraine should be given a medal . . . from the Kremlin.

Surprising the EU didn't follow this political strategy of solving several problems at once, negotiation pressure, though it seems PM Orban was successful. Europe has VERY high risk of domestic terror know due to GAZA etc.

FBI Director Wray's very pleased about linking Ukraine funding with Border Security. Why? He's never seen risk of US domestic terror as high in his many decades, per his recent Congressional testimony.

Too many known terrorists on FBI watchlist, hundreds alone since Oct 7th, entering US illegally, based upon Border Patrol Cameras, many more likely avoided being spotted by cameras.

-12 ( +0 / -12 )

Pay attention, Russia, this is how democracy and compromise work. You should try it sometime.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Great! Then no need for any additional aid from the USA.

thanks EU!

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

EU membership is underpinned and functions through strict adherence to Treaty Law (Lisbon Treaty)

It is no secret or conspiracy theory that Hungry has been threatened with article 7...

Suspension of membership......

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex%3A12012M007

Possibly a deal fudge has been negotiated. Lets wait and see.

Europe needs to be seen to be pulling its finger out.

US tax payers government patience has been stretched to breaking point.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

HopeSpringsEternal

Surprising the EU didn't follow this political strategy of solving several problems at once, negotiation pressure, though it seems PM Orban was successful.

Because it doesn't make sense.

Europe has VERY high risk of domestic terror know due to GAZA etc.

No it isn't.

He's never seen risk of US domestic terror as high in his many decades, per his recent Congressional testimony.

But it isn't because of the border. He notes that we’ve seen an increase in hate crimes investigations, October 7 etc.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Variety is spice of life, let's not forget Ben Franklin! One person's Russia troll farm is another person's Ukraine peace farm. It would be rather boring if we all agreed.

But hopefully we can all agree that without a lasting durable global peace, true prosperity is not possible. Sadly, global situation heading in less peaceful direction, chaos is spreading, and weapons are proliferating etc.

Nobody wants to see Ukraine become a failed state, that's sad path it's on as it depopulates and is destroyed, this little EU budget puts some food on table = stop gap.

-11 ( +2 / -13 )

Great! Then no need for any additional aid from the USA.

Nope, the US can and should help too.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

HopeSpringsEternal

2020hindsightsToday  09:52 am JST

HopeSpringsEternal

That's serious and not sustainable. They'll all pay heavy price for their continued Ukraine support.

No they don't. The people of Europe support Ukraine.

They just don't support their Pol's $spending on Ukraine, if one believes polling.

Incorrect. The polling:

Support for a range of actions taken in response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine remains very high. Almost nine in ten (89%) agree with providing humanitarian support to the people affected by the war, and more than eight in ten (84%) agree with welcoming into the EU people fleeing the war. 72% agree with providing financial support to Ukraine. 

Ukraine's #1 issue in Europe,

No it isn't.

their Politicians all deeply unfavorable. EU voters just see more inflation, no path to victory, escalation risk etc.

Ukraine aid has nothing to do with politician's favorabilty.

Everyone's sympathetic for Ukraine, Gaza too, but that's it.

Ditto US, Ukraine's big loser with public that wants Govt. spending to focus on THEM, not Ukrainian pension payments!

The problem isn't Ukraine, the problem is the GOP that won't allow any spending on the public.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Nobody wants to see Ukraine become a failed state, that's sad path it's on as it depopulates and is destroyed, this little EU budget puts some food on table = stop gap.

Russian posters on this very forum wish for Ukraine to fail and turn into something like Belarus.

10 ( +13 / -3 )

And anyone who thinks the US won’t continue to help Ukraine is delusional. I would take that bet.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

This is a matter for the Europeans. They set this up for Russia. Let them handle it.

-12 ( +1 / -13 )

Between this and the footage of that Russian warship sinking last night I can see why all the Putin apologists are so cranky in the comments here this morning.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

Surprising the EU didn't follow this political strategy of solving several problems at once, negotiation pressure, though it seems PM Orban was successful. Europe has VERY high risk of domestic terror know due to GAZA etc.

FBI Director Wray's very pleased about linking Ukraine funding with Border Security. Why? He's never seen risk of US domestic terror as high in his many decades, per his recent Congressional testimony.

Too many known terrorists on FBI watchlist, hundreds alone since Oct 7th, entering US illegally, based upon Border Patrol Cameras, many more likely avoided being spotted by cameras.

Anyone who states US (and Europe) domestic terror risk is not now historically high is flat out lying. FBI Director Wray's made it clear with extensive public comments to Congress in Jan., his European counterparts likewise.

US smart to solve several problems at once, use Ukraine budgetary negotiations to make society safer. Europe would wise to follow US lead = prevent terror tragedy.

-12 ( +2 / -14 )

@JJE, 

it's important to get his version of events because he has a proven record for being a straight arrow and integrity 

LOL! Orban's corruption is well documented:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-31/orban-s-hungary-seen-most-corrupt-in-eu-overtaking-bulgaria

https://www.politico.eu/article/hungary-orban-corruption-transparency-international/

7 ( +10 / -3 )

HopeSpringsEternal

Anyone who states US (and Europe) domestic terror risk is not now historically high is flat out lying. FBI Director Wray's made it clear with extensive public comments to Congress in Jan., his European counterparts likewise.

Sure. But it has nothing to do with immigration.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

2020hindsightsToday  11:22 am JST

HopeSpringsEternal

Anyone who states US (and Europe) domestic terror risk is not now historically high is flat out lying. FBI Director Wray's made it clear with extensive public comments to Congress in Jan., his European counterparts likewise.

Sure. But it has nothing to do with immigration.

Border security = everything to do with immigration, especially illegal terrorist immigration, both in Europe and US. Let's not forget cartels, human & drug trafficking!

Congressional & EU parliamentary budgetary matters should address all security risks, stemming from global chaos spreading from Ukraine to Mid-East to include terrorism, that means tougher borders. It's all connected.

Find me housewife in American that likes above risks?

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

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